WILL WE GO TO HELL

no_leaf_clover · June 28, 2003, 15:16:55

you create hell for yourself. in the astral, after death, if you realize that you are dead and fear going to hell, you will wind up in an astral realm that would resemble 'hell', should it exist. if someone kills many people, and then dies, but does not believe in nor fear going to 'hell', then he won't go to 'hell' and he'll have a pleasant afterlife. he might've had some bad karma issues in previous lives though, if you believe in that sort of thing.

personally, i wouldnt believe anything the church says. they believe it's their responsibility to play mommy or daddy to the world and make it their responsibility to convert everyone to their beliefs, even if they have to make up lies/make guesses in the name of the church to make people convert through fear.

gdawson6 · June 28, 2003, 16:57:40

The only thing that will make you go to what you perceive as hell is your fear that your not worthy to belong to a higher place.

MK911 · June 28, 2003, 17:08:48

quote:
Originally posted by no_leaf_clover

you create hell for yourself. in the astral, after death, if you realize that you are dead and fear going to hell, you will wind up in an astral realm that would resemble 'hell', should it exist. if someone kills many people, and then dies, but does not believe in nor fear going to 'hell', then he won't go to 'hell' and he'll have a pleasant afterlife. he might've had some bad karma issues in previous lives though, if you believe in that sort of thing.

personally, i wouldnt believe anything the church says. they believe it's their responsibility to play mommy or daddy to the world and make it their responsibility to convert everyone to their beliefs, even if they have to make up lies/make guesses in the name of the church to make people convert through fear.

Man, thats the wise lore, human creates the hell himself, but then thats really churches liability to convert with war and fire and they really must to tell us that projecting is from devil,
but people who believe this lore, they usually believe in rebirth too, but i still think that this lore is for good people and bad people must hear only what church has to tell them.
But church really doesnt lye, if you live like they tell you to live, you really find the paradise in AP when you die.
But i think that i should not tell this story what you wrote to a good religious people like my grandmom, this could have great affect on her paradise, but i really want her to die omnisciently.
What do You think
Edit:
When i think some more about this i find that if a bad person, lets say proffessional killer who knows that he kills good people, (well thats a really bad people), he still knows that this is very bad but he doesnt care and then his subconciousness knows it too and when he dies his subconciousness knows that he has made bad things to other people and eaven if he knew that its his subconciousness that creates what you think you have deserved it still creates the "hell".
You said:
but does not believe in nor fear going to 'hell', then he won't go to 'hell' and he'll have a pleasant afterlife

But i think it doesnt matter does he beleave in hell or not, matters does he beleave he made bad things or not (if he killed people thinking he will make good with this, then he will get the pleasant afterlife) And thats why people beleaving differently, have to kill each other according to different religions. OR if he lived like he lived and does not beleave in hell nor paradise, he get no hell nor paradise in AP and then all what he will undergo, is his life, what is a big suffer in front of our well earned paradise in AP [

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Anyway if he doesnt beleave in "hell" then when he will die then first he gets that experience what makes him fare of hell (i think that almost every people has heard the word hell) becouse he didnt wait anything after his death and now starts to beleave these things (he thought that when he dies, there is nohing, no AP) and then he will think about all the bad he made and he will experience his "hell". What do You all think of that?

no_leaf_clover · June 28, 2003, 19:08:48

the astral is just a stepping stone to higher dimensions. when our etheric energy runs out, we leave the astral and ascend to higher awareness and enlightenment. i don't know whether or not you're saying the astral contains both heaven and hell and is final, but experiences there after death can certainly vary.

fearing hell would be from the subconscious. that's what i was trying to cover. if you tell yourself there is no hell, but deep down you *know* there is, then that's not such a good thing.. if you've done bad things in your life, anyway... i can also bet you a lot of money that there have been many atheists that have been good, kind people all their lives, only to die and experience the astral and interpret it as heaven/hell. how many atheists, upon experiencing this and being fooled into such a thing, do you think would feel good and expect to go to heaven? the idea of hell isn't worth people suffering like that. the church just takes too many liberties with this one.

youre right that the church has helped some people spiritually, too, but again i don't think it's worth it. you can find much better spiritual aid elsewhere. the church has created a lot hostility towards religions other than christianity, and even within christianity itself there are hostilities, and of course the idea of hell, which we've been discussing, and has probably plagued millions of people that've already passed.

Lysear · June 29, 2003, 03:03:48

nobody really knows.

jason · June 29, 2003, 16:00:30

despite what ANY rediculous websites/christian fundamentalists may say, there is nothing "evil" about astral projection.many christians often wear a mask of "love thy neighbor","peace to all",etc, whatever, and yet, as soon as they encounter something that doesn't fit into their laughably childish belief systems,they automatically label it as "evil".

adding to this, there are an infinite number of cases where christians use the bible as a crutch, and interpret/slant/bias the mataphors to their own means.

it seems that origionally,christianity wasn't like this until the middle ages,when the religion was corrupted by those seeking, and wishing to remain in power.now christianity is mostly based on fear and ignorance.christianity has been stuck in the middle ages ever since.and the article in the website reminds me very much of the witch hunts of the spanish inquisition-the only difference is that in this age,their power has greatly waned.

Comparing the belief systems of christianity and astral projection,which practices would you consider to be more "evil"?

and even now,there are missionarys travelling around the world to spread their poison to cultures who already have ancient religions,most of which are infinitely more peaceful and beautiful than christianity.
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Frank · June 29, 2003, 16:10:18

quote:
Originally posted by ronaldo

Hi what do u guys think of this.

I think it would hurt my head after a very short time.

Yours,
Frank

beav31is · June 29, 2003, 16:26:44

[}:)] [}:)] [}:)] [}:)] [}:)] [}:)] [}:)] [}:)] [}:)] [}:)] [}:)]

I will go to hell, and laugh at all the people there who dont realize they are creating hell by thinking they are there. Then I will tinkle on satan's face, declare myself the new ruler of hell, and leave.

[}:)] [}:)] [}:)] [}:)] [}:)] [}:)] [}:)] [}:)] [}:)] [}:)] [}:)]

no_leaf_clover · June 29, 2003, 19:50:05

lmao.. sounds cruel but funny at the same time o.O

dino333 · June 29, 2003, 20:16:43

hey, when you're hells new ruler, can you kick me out if you see me?

MK911 · June 29, 2003, 21:14:47

My story was written from view of christians, but i really hate regions whitchever converts with war and fire and i have never been baptised so for them i am PAGAN whitch means SATAN in our language.[

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dino333 · June 29, 2003, 21:21:42

Well, the 2nd and 4th letters ARE both "a"

Nick · June 29, 2003, 21:57:44

My idea of hell is ronaldo's avatar. (Just kidding ronaldo [

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DarkQuest · June 30, 2003, 00:04:08

Okay i got lazy after the first few posts, so i dunno if this was mentioned, but according to the end of the site with how evil spirits can invade ur body, how can that be possible when the silver cord attaches ur astral body to ur physical body? i mean im not sayin the site is wrong, but it makes ya think about it more.

zkrt · June 30, 2003, 01:12:43

Some of you make the assumption that hell exists. Where did this idea of hell come from?

goingslow · June 30, 2003, 01:50:28

A recent study came out which pointed to the probability we will go to hell for all this. There was about a 5 percent margin of error but other than that it seemed conclusive. sucks.

no_leaf_clover · June 30, 2003, 04:30:15

who put that out? the church? god? lmao

Frank · June 30, 2003, 06:33:32

quote:
Originally posted by zkrt

Some of you make the assumption that hell exists. Where did this idea of hell come from?

Wasn't the idea some kind of religious notion stemming from way back?

In those days (and to a degree this situation still exists) people's thinking was quite polarised. You had two opposing notions, i.e. heaven and hell. Good people went to heaven and bad people went to hell. Which is all very well. Problem was the applied definitions of the words: good and bad.

Being "good" usually meant something along the lines of, "do as we say" or "give us all your money". And the definition of "bad" was thinking outside the box, so to speak.

Yours,
Frank

zkrt · June 30, 2003, 11:38:23

Exactly, its a religious thing... more acuratelly, people somehow derived it from the bible.

Intrestingly enough, the bible does not say that if we are 'evil', and die, we will goto hell. Hell is a concept made up by humans, as you seem to have mentioned. And for some reason, a VERY large amount of people believe it exists.

I'm guessing many people here will rebuke the bible completely, and thus, it strengthens my point:
Hell was made up. It doesn't exist. The origins of the idea come from a misinterpretation of the bible, hence I dont understand why anyone here would believe that it really does exist.

nuecreature · June 30, 2003, 12:55:03

Hell is largly a Jewish concept, in the Jewish religion no one can go to Heaven until the messiah 'not Jesus as Jew's do not believe Jesus is the Messiah' arrives until then everyone lives in sheol or the underworld. sheol is divided into two places one side of sheol is a comfortble place called abrahams bosem, it's for Jew's only as in Judisim only a practicing Jew can go to heaven, the other side is a place is a place of fire and misery made by God for all the non Jews. Read the story of lazurus and the rich man in the bible it will give you an idea of the Jewish afterlife.

kozzi · July 01, 2003, 14:48:37

All people can do is theorize... I have basically stopped worrying about the Bible, because I believe that, not only is it corrupt, but people corrupt what they read out of it as well. I believe the heart knows what is good. Who are you harming by having an astral projection? Just don't become some crazy psycho cultist, and don't fall into the trap of believing that it's more important than life. It's fun to do, and it can actually teach you things!!! It taught me something... (that the Bible is full of crap, because people corrupted it. So, maybe someone will interpret that as some demonic experience. It can't be though, because it taught me something that allowed me to be more inclusive instead of exclusive like the Christians, therefore seeming to be more Godly to my human mind).

Anyway, that's my two cents... also, I just wanted to say that none of these people really know the truth about the nature of the experience of life after death, no matter what they tell you. None of us have truly died and come back to tell the story... (and no, Near death doesn't count guys). Sure, having the experience eliminates fear of death in most cases, but to be honest we don't really know that the two experiences are the same or similar.

Kozzi

Greytraveller · July 02, 2003, 22:55:05

Whether Heaven and Hell exist objectively or only have subjective validity is, in some ways, immaterial. Because Everyone has the Option, both while alive (via an OBE) or after mortal passing, to Go or to Not go to either Heaven or to Hell.
The point here is that there Is free will and freedom of choice. Perhaps that is the true trajedy of Hell - that those unfortunate 'doomed' souls that go to Hell could avoid going there if they were sufficiently enlightned.

weagle · July 03, 2003, 01:20:46

until I can astral project into the center of the earth then I will assume hell does still exist. To be honest though the very most important thing is your character cause your character is your destiny. Second to believe in a God that forgives so long as you forgive your enemies or those who done you wrong so the character inside you is forgiving this is from the christian faith. What I also notice is charity also covers a multitude of sins, I read some books found out that God is called the Uncreated Charity cause he created us out of his love and charity otherwise why would he create us in the first place?. This is the God I want to be with when I die not the one that condemns you and puts shame and suffering on you.

Tisha · July 03, 2003, 08:25:32

Brief history of Hell.

Before Christianity came along, people of many Pagan religions believed in an underworld. It wasn't really a bad place; it was dark and cold and dank and boring. In fact, there was a Goddess of the Underworld named Hel - - - was she Greek? Many pre-christian religions had a god or goddess of the underworld; their energies were dark and severe, but they weren't evil. Hades was a god of the underworld.

Before Christianitiy, everyone supposedly went to the underworld, before they were reborn, or went to "summerland" (celtic), or wherever dead people went. In some religions, the conventional wisdom was that a dead person lived in the underworld for three days (quote from presbyterian affirmation of faith re: Jesus: "He descended into Hell. The third day He rose again from the dead and ascended to heaven. . ." )

Hell didn't become "hot" for us until Dante wrote his "Inferno." In fact, modern christian ideas about hell come from this book, a piece of fiction.

For those of you who really want to know more about hell, I recommend a book titled, appropriately, "Hell." Don't remember the author's name. It's a fat book, lots of info.

Nick · July 03, 2003, 09:11:05

That movie with Robin Williams and Annabella Sciorra, What Dreams May Come had that scene where she is stuck in her own thought form/belief system after her suicide. Probably a pretty accurate depiction, at least from a Robert Monroe and Bruce Moen standpoint.

Very best,

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WILL WE GO TO HELL