Well, I'll start off by saying that I'm a novice at astral phasing. I hadn't even heard of it before reading Frank's posts. So it was by asking questions and trading posts with Frank, that I came to an approach to astral phasing.
Also, I should start off by saying that I tried for the traditional OBE for quite a while with limited success. That is, I was able to get to the mind-awake/body-asleep state, and also experience a number of commonly described pre-obe sensations. All of this was without (at least as far as I could remember)a full conscious exit projection.
That being said, I became interested in what I was then learning by reading Frank's posts on astral phasing. What I liked also was the notion of projecting beyond the "real time zone" to what Robert Monroe described as different "focus levels" of the non-physical realm.
So I began to commit my studies to that of astral phasing about three months or so ago. At first, I used the Wave I cd from the Monroe Institute (now I either use the Deep Meditation CD from BrainSync or no CD at all). I would listen to one particular track to get the ball rolling, then settle in to Focus 10 (mind-awake/body-asleep). I did this for a few weeks then began to notice swirling colors, patterns and such, as well as the occasional noise such as a pop or loud bang. This I came to find out (again from Frank) is characteristic of Focus 12 (again a term from Robert Monroe).
One time in Focus 12 I heard this very loud crash, it brought me right back to C-1 (the physical), and when I looked around, I noticed my wife was asleep and the three cats hadn't moved. Then I realized the sound had to have been non-physical or the cats would have run for cover.
The next experience I began having a few weeks after Focus 12 is where a scene will appear. Sometimes it's a city, or a forest, for example. This occurs when I am in a sort of 3-D blackness. Also, sometimes I'll have the sensation of movement and will find myself taken right to the scene. This, I am informed, is Focus 21.
It is at Focus 21 where I am presently at. What I am working on is to try and be more neutral and detached at Focus 21. What will happen otherwise is that I'll be in a scene and think, "wow, look at that" or get excited. That has the tendency of bringing me back to C-1. What I hope to do is next go to some of the astral realms above/beyond Focus 21 where I understand all sorts interesting things occur.
That's about it at this point. Thanks Adrian for posting this topic, and thanks to Frank for his help with astral phasing. It would sure be helpful to hear from any other members who are doing astral phasing, and hear any tips or pointers you may have.
Very best,
Greetings Nick,
Thank you very much indeed for your excellent and detailed response.
I fully agree with you that phasing is the way forward. As even Monroe discovered, OBE has too many problems associated with it, many of which are detailed in Robert's book Astral Dynamics.
I personally believe that OBE is a relatively new thing, whereas the phasing approach to Astral projection is the method ued throughout the millenia even going back to the stoneage. Ancient cave paintings are now thought to the the depictions of Astral experiences by the tribe shaman. Native American shaman use a similar method of phasing, brought about by drumming. The Astral projection of the esoteric orders over the centuries is also phasing type Astral projection.
I believe the big question is whether the hemi-sync type CD's are required to achieve the mind awake, body asleep state by most people new to Astral projection?
Thanks very much again for your contribution, I am going to make this topic sticky for a time to gather more experiences.
With best regards,
Adrian.
quote:
Originally posted by Adrian
I believe the big question is whether the hemi-sync type CD's are required to achieve the mind awake, body asleep state by most people new to Astral projection?
That is certainly a fair question, and for my part the answer would have to be no, they are not required. However, for someone new who finds they are having a hard time getting to the mind-awake/body-asleep (Focus 10) state, then I would recommend a binaural cd that suits them.
I have experimented with different methods to get to Focus 10 (to use Robert Monroe's term). At first, Monroe Institute Wave 1 cd was helpful, but for me there would be points where Robert Monroe's voice would come back on after a period of quiet frequencies, and I would literally jump. So I tried the Awakened Minds cd and while there was no voice, I couldn't quite accept the constant rainfall. Finally, I tried the Brain Snyc Deep Meditation cd (which has a sort of pleasant type music on it) and that is what I use sometimes now.
However, a few comments are in order. First, a cd is not necessary, nor is it a crutch unless you make it one. There are some times when I will use the cd and other times when I'll slip into Focus 10 on my own. It's just nice to assist sometimes.
Regarding the cd, I believe about thirty minutes or so is a good length. The whole Brain Sync cd runs about an hour which is somewhat long, in my opinion. Lately, I've been listening to the second of the two tracks which is about thirty minutes, and that's been a nice length. Also, I've been considering whether to do a Brainwave Generator type preset for about a 30 minute period. I haven't done so yet though.
What I haven't mentioned is the visual mental primer or rundown that Frank has described in his posts to get the ball rolling. Thanks to this helpful information, I have developed a rundown of my own to go along with or without the cd. I would refer to the stickies Achieving consciouness state for Astral Phasing that you posted Adrian, and also Frank's Gateway Wave 1 pointers for anyone who wants a detailed rundown of what I'm talking about.
Very best,
What do you think is the most difficult element in projecting into the real time zone physical environment buffer (traditional OOBE)? I am trying hard to reach this type of projection, as I would personally love to roam the physical and fly above my town at this moment :)
If one is able to achieve the mind awake/body asleep and feel the surge of vibrations build, do you think its only a matter of time before a successful RTZ projection can occur?
I like this topic very much - keep the methods rolling.
In an aside - and in an attempt to get the ball rolling with MY phasing attempts - I ordered that Deep Meditation cd y'all were talking about. I'll let you know what I think when it comes. Thanks for the input. I've been thinking about adding the Brain Power one in to the mix.
- Mark
What is this Deep Meditation cd and how can i get it?
Hi b_smith_99,
The Deep Meditation cd is a binaural cd sold by a company called Brain Sync. You can read all about it and binaural technology at their website:
http://www.brainsync.com/titles/deepmeditate.asp
Also, take a look at some of the previous posts and you'll find topics about binaural cds. There are a number of different binaural cd websites (notably The Monroe Institute's Hemi-Sync) as well as software called the Brainwave Generator that has been discussed here before. If you use the search engine at the top of the Astral Pulse page, you can, for example, type in the word binaural and you'll come up with a lot of previous posts.
Very best,
Thank you Nick. I will take a look and see what is there. Once again, Thank You!
Hi Graupel,
I wanted to respond to your question as best I could. So I've included your original post first.
quote:
Originally posted by Graupel
What do you think is the most difficult element in projecting into the real time zone physical environment buffer (traditional OOBE)? I am trying hard to reach this type of projection, as I would personally love to roam the physical and fly above my town at this moment :)
If one is able to achieve the mind awake/body asleep and feel the surge of vibrations build, do you think its only a matter of time before a successful RTZ projection can occur?
Your question refers to the traditional OBE and not Astral Phasing. There is plenty of good information in the OBE discussions forum in the area you write about. You might also want to use the search engine at the top of the page to help you find prior posts regarding your questions regarding OBE.
However, in astral phasing there is not the etheric projection into the real time zone as you describe. That, as I mentioned, has to do with OBE and not Astral Phasing. Astral Phasing, by contrast, is first achieving the mind-awake/body-asleep state (called Focus 10 by Robert Monroe) and from there moving to Focus 12 and beyond by the projection of consciousness into the astral realms, not the real time zone. There is no "etheric double" or "etheric projection" involved in Astral Phasing. Also, one uses the original mind in Astral Phasing and not an etheric copy.
If you are interested in learning more about Astral Phasing please take a look at previous posts, especially the other "sticky" topics by Adrian and Frank that I referred to in another post above. There is a wealth of information contained in those "sticky" topics which I have benefited from, and perhaps you will feel the same after reading them.
Very best to you in your astral endeavors,
Wow so interesting. I have had a problem with this and felt my projections were sort of inferior as I have seldom got any of the traditional vibrations and other sensations. So I have been phazing all along. I had no idea there were names for the different degrees. I often had the loud bangs noises etc and often see a variety of dream scapes and overhear conversations. I made a lot of progress by using earplugs. They seem to make the background sort of fuzzy and I attain the level U call 10 at will now. What is the name of Mr Monroes book about the levels?
Hi Mustardseed,
There is a great description of Focus levels in the
Gateway Wave I pointers thread. The thread is a "sticky" located here in the
Astral Consciousness forum. In that thread Frank states:
quote:
Posted by Frank - (see: Gateway Wave I Pointers)
The whole thrust behind my thinking is to try and work out what Monroe meant when he writes about "phasing in" to the Astral as opposed to the traditional out of body experience.
What Frank refers to comes out of Robert Monroe's later work where he moved from the traditional obe to phasing. His later books
Far Journeys and
Ultimate Journey are relevant here. Also, Monroe put together his Gateway tapes (and later cds) wherein the term Focus Levels are described as, for example, C-1 (the physical realm), Focus 10 (mind-awake/body-asleep state), and Focus 12 (what Monroe calls a state of expanded awareness) where colors, shapes, sounds, and mental pictures both still and moving may appear.
The next level Monroe writes about (see Glossary in
Ultimate Journey is Focus 15 "another step in the phase relationship" with more attention in the nonphysical realms. Next, Focus 21, which Monroe describes as "the equivalent of deep (delta) sleep in ordinary physical life activity. However, the mind is fully 'awake' and conscious, directing the action."
Beyond the above are the lower realms of the Belief System Territories (BST), such as Focus levels 24, 25 & 26. Then, beyond the BST there is Focus 27, a label Monroe placed for that astral level where decent people would go and gather after the physical body expires. It is also referred to as "the park" because its parklike appearance caused it to be named that by Monroe.
This is hopefully helpful to you. As I mentioned at the start of this thread, I am a novice at this. What I have learned so far has been from people like Frank and Adrian. So I am still much the student. What I would recommend, if you are interested, is to read all that you can in those threads I mentioned, also read Monroe, and perhaps try a binaural cd to assist with a mental primer or rundown as you do this (see Frank's post page 3 of the
Achieving Consciousness State for Astral Phasing thread for an excellent example of a mental rundown).
One last thing, what I have found (as I believe others have) is that there will be "flat" periods where the phasing process runs idle for a bit. Just work through it, and then the results will return.
Very best to you in your astral studies (from a fellow student),
Robert Monroe wrote 3 books; "Ultimate Journey" and "Far Journeys" are the last two, and, have the most information regarding the focus levels of consciousness.
I also wanted to comment on the question asked earlier regarding whether or not CDs are required. I agree with Nick that, no, they are not required. But if used as designed, as training tools, they can be most useful. I have particularly found them useful in training my consciousness to stabilize Focus 10 (mind-awake/body-asleep) and Focus 12 (gateway to the astral). In the first set of CDs in the Gateway series by the Monroe Institute ("Wave I"), the last track on the last CD, called "Free Flow 10," the CD takes you to F10 then there is no more voice on the CD until the session ends. I use this CD to help me stabilize and deepen the F10 state. The first track on the first CD of Wave II, "Intro to Focus 12," has you go to F10, then F12, then back and forth between the two. I have found this really helpful in training my mind to tune into F12.
So, while I agree the CDs are by no means required, I have found them useful and they have greatly expedited my journey.
quote:
Originally posted by Trace
I also wanted to comment on the question asked earlier regarding whether or not CDs are required. I agree with Nick that, no, they are not required. But if used as designed, as training tools, they can be most useful. I have particularly found them useful in training my consciousness to stabilize Focus 10 (mind-awake/body-asleep) and Focus 12 (gateway to the astral). In the first set of CDs in the Gateway series by the Monroe Institute ("Wave I"), the last track on the last CD, called "Free Flow 10," the CD takes you to F10 then there is no more voice on the CD until the session ends. I use this CD to help me stabilize and deepen the F10 state. The first track on the first CD of Wave II, "Intro to Focus 12," has you go to F10, then F12, then back and forth between the two. I have found this really helpful in training my mind to tune into F12.
So, while I agree the CDs are by no means required, I have found them useful and they have greatly expedited my journey.
I have the Gateway CD and would like to know how you use them. Do you listen to the CD every day? What in your opinion is the best approach to the CD, in getting the most out of them. I, for myself have gotten deceiving results. The first listening brought a great experience (Focus 10 & 12) but listening to the CD after that first experience seems to produce nothing. So I'm wondering if listening frequently to the CD produces a negative effect, like your brain gets used to the frequencies and doesn't react anymore.
I would appreciate your comments and suggestions.
quebec,
My experience with the CDs has been inline with the general concensus regarding them. That is, consistent usage will cause your brain to form a permanent bridge between the left and right hemispheres (via the corpus colossum). I can feel this neural pathway now anytime I tune into that area, and sometimes spontaneously. I don't know about the 'permanent' part yet, but I can say it is persistant.
I practice phasing every day, though I do not always use the CDs. In the beginning I did use them every day (this is necessary to build the bridge). As I posted before, I use them now when I want to deepen or need to re-stabilize F10 and/or F12. Though I have days where I'm more responsive to the CDs than others, they always have an impact. However, I recall that in my early work with the CDs I would frequently wonder if anything was happening. I stayed with them, because I trusted Bob Monroe. And I'm glad I did. By incorporating them into my practice I began to project on a regular basis. This was years ago (when they first came out with the CDs). Then my father did a horrendous thing that halted my spiritual practice. Just this year I have begun again, from the beginning. Using the CDs has greatly accelerated my progress.
Only you know if the CDs should be a part of your spiritual practice. If you think they should, I would encourage you to keep using them daily until your brain and consciousness respond. Be sure and read the little booklet in the CD case; it gives guidelines on when to proceed to the next lesson.
Is there a way i can download this CDs for free as mp3s or something.. because I can not buy them.. first because i don`t have a credit card and second because no Comercial site ships in Romania whatsoever because of the large number of hackers operating from here with false credit cards..
I can not buy Astral Dynamics and now I can not buy this CDs.. so if there`s a way please share it with me..
I saw some downloadable music files in "File Library" but they do not seem to be from Monroe Institute or BrainSync...
The thing is I can`t ask you to code those cd tracks in mp3s using MP3 Workshop :) because it would be illegal i guess..
Hope you have a couple of ideas for me
Mike
Hi Tao,
While I do not have a direct answer to your problem, I have found a thread that may help. Take a look at the following topic. There is a lot of discussion on it about the brainwave generator, and there may be something helpful to you.
http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2408
Also, be sure to take advantage of the free downloads on Robert Bruce's website as well, including his Treatise on OBE and also his New Energy Ways - NEW. That link is:
http://www.astralpulse.com/
Very best,
Thank you Nick..
NEW and Treatise.. I already read them..
I wished to read Astral Dynamics or Monroe but I am stuck... no Site ships in Romania.. I must handle only with the free stuff and Robert Bruce appears to be the only one to think that there may be people in my position..
Right now.. I only have some threads to read and after that all the free info will be gone... Then i will really be stuck..
I searched librarys in here.. But in Romania (orthodox country - good folks) this kind of books are considered mambo-jumbo and they do not sell well - and i couldn`t find anything - just one book which is so vague that i can tell mote about Astral than the author..
I see no way out of this.. but any kind of help would be appreciated..
Right now I`m trying to buy Astral Dynamics through a friend in England.. but I have to give my money on 4 months (student) to buy ONE book.. (i don`t have the money right now).. In England life is MUCH MORE expansive than here - but I must have that book..
So let`s say i get Astral Dynamics... but until I have all the books i want to read I`ll be like 50 in this way.. :)
Yours,
Mike
Hi Mike,
If you would like another online free obe book to read you can get it at this website:
http://www.robertpeterson.org/
I read his book a couple of years ago and it is very good. It is about obe and not astral phasing, however. Still a worthwhile read. If I can think of any other free online books on obe/ap I'll let you know.
Very best,
I read it twice :))
I`ve been on this forum for awhile and read that book long ago :)
But thanks for trying to help me Nick,
If I`ll find something interesting I`ll post it here too,
Mike
Hi,
I never heard of phasing before-is this in a book??? If so-what book?
Yes, I am to interested in knowing what this astral phasing is do you know any topics that give details and/or any links that my further peak my interest.[:)]
quote:
Originally posted by electricdreamer
Hi,
I never heard of phasing before-is this in a book??? If so-what book?
quote:
Originally posted by Shadow20205
Yes, I am to interested in knowing what this astral phasing is do you know any topics that give details and/or any links that my further peak my interest.
It would be nice if there was a book on this. Right now the most information I believe you will find is right here at the Astral Pulse. Specifically in the posts by Frank in the
Welcome to Permanent Astral Topics Forum. Take a look at the following topics for much information:
http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1832
http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2315
All the best,
By way of follow up, the topics that I've mentioned in the post above are the ones where one can get a glimpse of Frank. His posts have always been thought provoking, intelligent and instructive.
Members who arrived here after mid-July of 2003 did not have the opportunity to trade posts with Frank, as some of us did. For those members I would again suggest reading over the aforementioned topics. You will be glad you did.
Very best,
Yea Franks topic on phasing helped me some.. he has alot of insight. Just wish he would come back...
-Aries
Everyone,
There was reference made recently, here at the Astral Pulse, to another good Phasing link authored last year by Frank. I thought it would make a nice addition to the topic links already provided above. Here is the link to the additional topic:
http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=3089
Very best,
Thanks for the link. So I guess there is still no word back from Frank yet?
-Aries
quote:
Originally posted by Aries
So I guess there is still no word back from Frank yet?
I'll depart from the topic of
Phasing Methods for this post to report on Frank. His absence remains a mystery. His last post was in mid-July of 2003. The forum administrator Adrian, as well as a few of the moderators have tried tracking him down in the UK with no luck. [:(]
My hope is that someday we will hear from him, or at the very least, hear of him. Thanks for asking about him. He is really missed.
When I do "phasing", I find that the most important factor is my intention going into it. I get into a meditative state where my mind is quiet and more or less empty, and then I watch and listen in my mind's eye very intently and patiently. I don't concern myself with what level it may or may not be (I have the Monroe Gateway cds and use them sometimes so I am familiar with them. It is not at all necessary to use them to do phasing.) I then have an intention to do something, such as to meet with someone who can answer a question or show me around or to be in a certain place. This can be very general or very specific. The point is it has to be something so that you cause something to happen, cause yourself to go somewhere. You don't want to have the intention to have the buddhist type of "empty mind" as that is what you will get (though you certainly need to have a more or less quieted mind). I find that if I focus too much on Monroe's levels, this or that level, it distracts me from just being out there.
Then if you wait, watch and listen (in your mind's eye), very intently, without talking in your head, something will start to happen, you'll get a flash of an image, a face, a place, it could be a lot of things. If you focus in on one of these, having the intention to experience more of it, you will. The more you can just "feel" your intention, know it, without saying it, the more likely you are to have a fluid, less interrupted flow. Too much thinking or analyzing or talking during this can throw you out of it, though you can do these things and snap right back in. There are varying depths you can go to, from surface impressions to very real being there experiences.
For me, I don't actually need to go through "phases" at all but can boom just be there. Now, I am not talking about the traditional obe. In fact, for me at least, I think that trying to do a traditional obe and trying to do phasing can interfere with each other. I have to decide which I am going to do in any one session. By that I mean, I can get too deep in meditation where I begin to have the OBE symptoms, shaking, feeling myself lift out of the top of my head, or some state just before that, a very deep meditation, and this can be so deep that I start to have some of the problems that OBE can cause, such as not being able to remember what you just experienced. I think that is the main virtue of phasing, that you remain fully conscious and can remember everything. It seems to me that what I am doing is projecting a portion of my consciousness out into the nonphysical realms. With OBE you take more or all of your consciousness out there and so this causes problems with retaining the memory of your experiences when you return.
In my experience, I also find that this "phasing" can after awhile be experienced very easily, so easily that we dismiss it is happening at all. The thinking goes that we want to go through a long hard meditation process before we can do it or it can't be real. Often, these beginning surface phasing impressions can come when you just close your eyes and are aware of what is happening inside your head.
Now this starts to resemble what other people have called channeling or being a medium or psychonavigation or focused attention, or what shamans do. I think there is only a fine line between these things if any at all. I think the differences are more a matter of what depth you go to, what portion of your consciousness you send out there.
Though I and most people crave the drama of the full classic OBE experience, I think that this "phasing" method may actually be the better one for a number of reasons. The first being the memory issue I mentioned, another being that you avoid the shock of your ego/mind watching you leave your body which is what is holding most of us back. I also think that with phasing, because you are sending a portion of your consciousness out there, it is very difficult, (I haven't been able to yet) project into the RTZ, as if your physical world awareness keeps you vibrating at a higher level which makes dropping down a notch to the lower astral RTZ more difficult. I don't know. I'm still thinking about that one.
Okay, so once you've got your consciousness partially projected out there, I find that I can then have all sorts of experiences while being fully conscious, meet people, go places, find answers to questions. I experience a variety of levels of "real-ness". I'm still working on what determines that. I think it has a lot to do with, again, intention. I have a lot of questions about what I am experiencing sometimes, doubts, and I think that they keep me more here than there and so make the experience less real than more real.
Oh and I wanted to mention imagination. Another way, in addition to intention, of phasing is to use your imagination. Imagine where it is you want to go, who you want to meet, in great detail. At first, it will seem as if you are just making it all up and will be so simple you will think nothing is actually happening. However, if you stay with it, have the intention of making it more real, listen and watch very careful and patiently, the thing you are imagining will start to take on its own life and will become very real. It may take off from what you've imagined to something entirely different, or it may deepen what you've made up. But, you will just find yourself there, easily, no effort. The more you travel around, talk with people, deepen the experience as much as you can, the more you practice it, the more validation you will pick up as to its reality. But at first, you have to suspend your doubts and allow your imagination to work for you. I think that that may actually be the imagination's purpose, to act as a mechanism to ease you in, to phase you into awareness of the nonphsical realms. And again, it can be so easy as to make us think it isn't happening at all.
that's all I've got for now
Pete
Hi Pete
Great post!I think that`s the best description of phasing I`ve read here.I`ve had some success with phasing but I find it hard to hold the state for more than a few moments.It`s a tricky mental balancing act. I agree about the advantages regarding memory retention.I`ve been having alot of blank spaces in my projections lately probably as a result of staying out too long.I`m going to keep practicing and use your post as a guide.
Cheers!
Thanks coral1. But it does sound as if you are able to project. Is that right? If so, I am really interested in the differences, as I have not been able to do the classic OBE, or at least only once and then a number of times right up until it happens, then I zonk out. If you can project, wouldn't it be easier to just do that rather than phasing? though of course, there are the memory limitations. I find it interesting that someone could find projection easier to do than phasing. Or perhaps I am misunderstanding you. So why choose to do phasing over projecting or in addition to? Is it for the reasons I mentioned in the earlier post?
The main drawback to phasing, I think, is that it can be so similar to imagination when you start and when you are not in really deeply, that it feels like you're making it up and so not as legitimate.
The times when phasing is the most difficult for me is when I have some other things going on in my life that distract me with worry, like the pickup truck needing work or figuring out how to fix a plumbing problem. But I can usually get there. The depth I achieve varies though.
I had one experience lately where I was getting some information for a friend and I kept having trouble with it, drifting in and out and not getting as vivid an experience. The reason I picked up was something to do with the level I was trying to reach being difficult for me, high vibrations or sometehing like that. Also, that the people there were not entirely thrilled to see me (not rude but not basically all that thrilled). They asked me to tell my friend to come there herself as they did not want to tell me her personal information. Kinda funny really. (She did go there and got what she needed).
It sounds like you have made some great progress since I last posted on this site. I'd be interested in hearing an update. Congratulations.
Pete
More on imagination - or perhaps what we do is create in the astral planes the scene we are imagining and it is there for real as thought forms and then those people in the astral planes we are trying to contact or interract with are then able to come to that place and animate it, inhabit it, and if we are willing and able, then take us on from that to other things. Or if it is a place we are imagining and intending to go to, perhaps the thought form attracts us to the place, carries us to it, and then overlaps it more or less, and we then start to perceive the real-ness of the actual thing.
I guess I wonder about it because I have a lot of mistrust of the imagination I am trying to get over, as if I think it is misleading me when the truth seems to be that it is actually leading me.
Pete
Hi Peter, I have only recently joined the Astral Pulse furums and I'm very impressed with your ability to articulate what you see and experience in words. It's a great gift you have.
I stumbled upon something interesting about the imagination a few years back which you may find interesting. If you take the actual word "IMAGINATION" and split it into three - you get "I" "Magi" "Nation" which is directly interpreted as My Magic World!
Hope to speak to you soon. P.S when phasing and you reach the "3D blackness!!!" try "imagining" the word "ve-ger-bu-rah" in fact, vibrate it using that high pitched noise you "hear" between your ears!
Hello to all![:)]
I'm happy to enjoy that international community of people who are trying (and often manage )to reach other worlds. I'm brand-new here and I have to admit that most of the turms you use make me feel a bit confused cause I don't know what they mean, and my english language isn't fluent at all (please, let me be excused [:I]). But after more reading and pottering here I began to realise that I've experienced some of the things you're talking bout - lol I only haven't knew their names...and probably I've thought I was going mad [:D]
It's good to find so many people you can understand and to be understand by
See you around
Blessed be [:)]
Hi Pete
Even though I can project in the traditional way I`m still interested in learning the phasing technique. The way I understand it is that it directly projects your conciousness to the astral without the intermediate steps of creating a projected double.That right there would eliminate the memory problem.Another advantage is a much greater degree of control over where you end up.I have yet to master any reliable navigation skills and tend to "arrive" at various locations within the RTZ, astral or combinations of the two.The person who impressed me the most who uses a phasing technique was Ginny.She is able to travel at will to various locations with a great degree of accuracy.I think that was why Frank was doing it as well and he`s my hero!Unfortunatly since Frank left the forum the phasing thread has languished.
When I`m going down through the various Monroe focus levels I`ll see glimpses of astral scenery but when I try to move into them or place an intent to be there they simply fade.I think my problem might be a reluctance to use my imagination, or at least give it free rein.Bruce Moen emphasizes this point as an important part of his focused attention technique and I think it might hold true for phasing as well.Anyway I`m going to keep trying.One of these days I`ll stumble on the proper mind-set to make it happen.
Happy Trails
Hello Heamatite
Welcome to the forum.Your English is better than half the people here who speak it as a first language!I look forward to reading your posts.
Cheers
Hey coral1,
<<I`ll see glimpses of astral scenery but when I try to move into them or place an intent to be there they simply fade>>
Interesting. Perhaps step back a bit and let one sort of come to you. I mean, a lot of the scenery may not be connected enough to your true desires and purposes to engage you enough to enter them, even though you might intellectually want to. Perhaps step back a bit and see what emerges. Or even ask for someone to help you enter one. You didn't say what your intent was but I do think it needs to be more than only the curiosity to go to a place, at least in the beginning of trying to do it, if not as a general rule.
I don't experience it quite the same way, I don't go down through the levels. My feeling is more horizontal and dimensional, as if things are appearing in front of me and then I enter when something is clear enough. Then I have movement, lateral, vertical, etc when I'm in a place. Though sometimes it isn't as clear as that and I am just in an exchange with someone face to face.
My instinct from what you wrote is to suggest examining your intent, maybe seek out the answers to some question or desire to meet with someone deceased or a guide or something, and then the entering into the scenes happens as a by-product. It's seems a lot like things in the normal physical world - the more interested we are in them, the more real the experience is to us and we are only interested in those things that have some real relevance to our goals, hopes, desires, etc.
Also, since what we find is so unexpected, another suggestion would be to not try to control the experience and just go where you go, but that doesn't sound like what you described. For me, most of these "trips" start with impressions of something that is so out in left field that I don't think it can be related to the questions I have or my intent, an image of a bird flying, then I see its over a valley, then I see there's a river in the valley and some men are riding horses off of ships, etc etc and the it starts to gain depth and real-ness.
Another suggestion is to put out suggestions and questions for what you want to happen. Sometimes, if it is fading a bit, I will say, I want this to be more real please, and darned if it won't get more real. Sometimes just for a few seconds, I'll hear things suddenly when I wasn't hearing anything, and then it might fade again. My impressions at those moments is that I must be having trouble maintaining the level and someone on the other side is giving me some help for a few seconds and then letting me go back to my own efforts.
Anyway, intent seems to be the key, is my impression of your email.
Also, for me, intent comes from the heart chakra area, not from the brain. I often feel it coming from the heart area, so to further define the word, intent might also mean what you desire or feel or want. Communication while phasing seems to all come through the heart chakra for me also. When you want to enter a passing scene, you might try focusing on your heart chakra area and see where it is pointing, or leaning, or takes you. Or throw out a "connection" from it to the scenes and see where it "attaches" itself. Just some ideas to play with that sometimes work for me.
I am envious that you can do the classic obe. It does seem that it is a common feature that it is a bit unpredictable, to do it at will and to navigate once in. I am starting to suspect that there might be some natural protectiveness reasons for it. One thing that comes to mind is that the lower astral planes are not suppossed to be that great to be hanging around in and maybe the mechanism is there to protect us. I don't know.
When you phase and maintain that awareness of yourself here to some degree like you don't while obe, it definitely acts to ground you here and allow your conscious mind to exert some sort of control. Finding that balance between control and interferring with the experience is the art.
I am familiar with Bruce Moen's work. I've read his books and listened to one of his workshops. It is essentially the same thing as what we are calling phasing here (and what a friend of mine calls channeling). I think it is just a matter of degrees, of how real the experience gets. The least real being a medium and the most real being the classic obe. For some purposes, or intents, it doesn't seem necessary to get real real, while other times it does.
all the best
Pete
At this point in this thread I thought it would be appropriate to include a previous post by Frank. He hasn't been here for a while, however his posts have always helped many of us, so here is a post of Frank's from the thread Achieving consciouness state for Astral phasing:
I've had a number of PM's asking similar questions about my comments regarding the mental-rundown given on the monster-thread as being a kind of primer which kick-starts the natural Phasing process.
The questions relate to how you integrate the two and kick-start the process; how can you tell when the process has been kick-started, and what to do then, etc. So I thought I'd post a reply here as it pertains to the thread title.
What is the purpose of creating a mental rundown?
The rundown acts as a kind of mental primer which gets you in the mood and increases your anticipation and expectation levels (very important). The rundown is not what causes you to Phase to the Astral. Phasing is a natural process which comes about under certain mental conditions which I expand on later in this essay. It also gives a person practice in focusing their attention away from the physical body into the expanse of their mind. In other words, what you are basically doing is imagining you are Phasing to the Astral.
What shall I try, and for how long, and how often?
The mental-rundown exercise should be performed preferably at least once each day at around the same time. It does not really matter what kind of mental rundown you use. Simply do whatever feels right for you. Someone posted fairly recently they tried to work out their own but gave up and used the example I gave with a few changes here and there. Others have created their own from scratch. Like I say, it truly does not matter.
You don't actually need the Wave-1 CD either. You can formulate a mental rundown to some relaxing music, or create something using Brainwave Generator, or use whatever suits you. All I would advise is for you to create something of around 30 to 45 minutes duration which you are basically happy with then stick with it. In other words, don't make it too short, or too long, and no chopping and changing.
Okay, I've formulated a mental rundown so what next?
Once you have learnt your mental rundown you are ready to use it as a mental primer. First you go through it. Then simply remove the earphones (if you are using a CD or tape) and try Phasing for real.
In cases where you perhaps haven't got all that much time to spare, what I would suggest is you create a short version of your rundown. Say, around half the duration. Then, every other time, listen to the short version after which you try for real. Once you get more competent then perhaps switch to the short version each morning. Or maybe try a regime of rundown one day and try it for real with no rundown the next. Again, it truly is a case of whatever suits each individual.
What do you mean by "Phasing for real?"
When you come to Phase for-real, you switch from perceiving metal imagery you are imagining as part of your rundown, i.e. where you are imagining you are Phasing to the Astral, to perceiving images that are being created as part of the normal Phasing process. In other words, you are not imagining anything, you are doing it!
After going through my rundown I try it for real and nothing happens, why?
Chances are, your physical-body is distracting you by capturing your attention.
One of the benefits of formulating a mental-rundown to some kind of audio recording, is it takes your mind off both the physical body and the Physical environment. Plus, you know exactly what imagery to perceive as it is you who is imagining it. Without these two mental props it can feel like you are right back at square one.
Main things you should avoid when trying for-real
Thinking about day-to-day Physical-realm matters.
Any kind of thinking about anything to do with the Physical-realm tends to put a *big* spoke in the works. In other words, you can't really hope to kick-start the Phasing process if one part of you is thinking of your dental appointment next day; or whether you'll get that pay-rise you requested; or your birthday next week, etc., etc.
To deal with this what you should do, right at the start of your practice, is imagine a large box and place all your Physical-realm concerns in that box. Then lock it securely and walk away. When you finish your mental-rundown, unlock the box and take them out again. This method is suggested by Monroe on the Wave-1 CD. It may sound a bit weird but it works!
Any kind of internally verbalised thought (even if it is to do with Phasing!).
What I mean here, is you need to switch your inner-thinking so it is working exclusively in a visual way. Speed-reading aside, when we read to ourselves we have this inner voice which reads the words. This voice is probably what you are listening to within your own mind, right now as you read this.
Also, when we think to ourselves in an everyday sense we tend to use this same inner voice. Like, you may think, "Hmm, I've got 30 minutes before I meet my next client, so I'll go and fill the car with petrol and pick-up something to eat on the way back." Thinking that way uses that same inner-voice... which must be silent.
Then you quietly and passively observe what happens next.
When I say "quietly" I mean observe without having that inner-voice comment on anything you may perceive.
When I say "passively" I mean avoid reacting in any way to anything you may perceive.
Both the above I realise are a tad tricky to do. The good news is it all comes good with practice. At first, what will probably happen is you might perceive some kind of vague, fleeting image. At which point your inner-voice will chirp-up saying, "What was that?" or it might make some other comment. Perhaps it may comment in recognition that you are making progress.
Problem is, as it does so, it tends to send you a step back each time. Unfortunately, you can get caught in a self-defeating loop: where you take one step forward, your inner voice recognises you just took a step forward and comments to that effect, and the act of it doing so takes you one step back to where you were before.
Or you might perceive something and react to it. You might get startled, or fearful, or such like. What used to happen to me all the time (which was most frustrating) is I'd perceive some image in mind and, the moment I did so, my physical eyes would try and snatch a glance at whatever it was. This, of course, zapped me right back to C1 each time.
Okay, so you are in a state where you are quietly and passively observing. Don't worry if nothing comes about. Simply curtail the session after your normal time and try again next session. Hopefully, what will soon happen is you will begin to perceive what may seem like fairly weird, totally abstract mental imagery.
Say you perceive some fleeting kind of something or other. Chances are you'll wonder if what you think you may have perceived is what you should be starting to perceive. Then you'll realise your inner voice has just made a comment. But the realisation of that was yet another comment. By which time you'll probably be right back where you started.
The key is to simply roll along with this mental imagery, without your inner voice commenting on it, or having your physical body reacting to it. This is the beginning of Phasing. You don't need any particular "technique" in order to project. You just need to set it going. Once the process gets underway everything happens more or less automatically.
If you can just quietly and passively observe the process you will end up within the Astral as awake and alert as you normally are while within the Physical.
Yours,
Frank
Final note:
One brief mention should be made that Frank, in many of the posts he made along the lines of Astral Phasing, made reference to "focus levels" (as I have in this thread). This is a derivative from the writings of Robert Monroe who first wrote in these terms. They are meant as reference points to certain states that generally most individuals experience. They are also meant as a guide and are not written in stone. Certainly everyone is different as are many of their experiences, however I for one have found an explanation of these so called focus levels to be quite useful.
Great explanation Major Tom, obviously you have the things very clear. I am going to try the approach you just described.
Hello!
This topic is amazingly interesting. A few months ago I started having my first OBEs, and it was actually quite easy. I didn't really have any methods to achieve an OOBE, I would just come obsessed with the idea of having one, go to sleep during daytime and wake up to hear those humming sounds.
And sometimes, when I closed my eyes, I would see various sceneries, and quite often a white table with people seated around it. I didn't understand what this way, until now. Can phasing cause OOBEs?
I took a break from out of body experience, mainly because I turned scared and lost control. Now I'm having difficulties achieving one. Maybe phasing was my key to go out of body?
Thanks.
Thank you for your wonderful reply MajorTom!
I never thought about it that way. Wow. It really feels like I had something wonderful, and lost it. :(
The reason why I went to sleep during daytime, was because I was less scared then. But later I was also pushed out of my body during nightime, this frightened me, and I stopped. I was quite depressed at that time.
Perhaps it would be wise to try having an OBE when I'm not dead tired? Make time to take a nap in the middle of the day. I will keep trying!
Originally posted by Major Tom:
quote:
Cause really, I can see no greater barrier to astral projecting than fear. That's why it is so important to first dissolve that fear, and be for prolonged periods in this state of awareness of reduced sensory perception.
Well said, Major Tom, and you are so right! The fear sometimes lies in the background, as if held in abeyance, until we are quite close and then rears its head.
I do like your descriptions of what is needed towards success in obe and phasing:
quote:
"Focus 12 is a phase state with still less attention to the physial body and more movement into (M) field energy. With the continued lessening of physical sensory input, perception of M) field patterns becomes progressively clearer)."
So there is the baseline that I think everything would be wise to start with if wanting to practice phasing (or leave the body in conventional ways). Get to know these states very well until very comfortable with it. No need to do aythign else, since it will only add to the fear.
Once bored, and waiting for more to happen in these states, things will happen.
And also:
quote:
One last comment. I have noticed some complaining about very easily being thrown out of these states when hearing noices and so forth. I think it's true that when seeing images or visions in these states, one will stop seeing them. However, that doesn't mean one has been thrown out of the state. Go back to the baseline to see where you are after you think you have lost the state - the extent of sensory reduction. Often, you will find you will be fully in it.
Great advice! By the way, if you ever decide to put together a short essay on this, please let me know. It would make a great addition to our File Library, and "sticky" topic too.
Very best,
Nick
Greetings everyone,
We are indebted to Frank for his exceptional information regarding phasing based upon the TMI Wave 1 CD's in accordance with the thread of the same name.
I am sure it would help many people wishing to project if we could collect more true phasing methods of Astral projection.
Please post your phasing methods and experiences here.
Thank you.
With best regards,
Adrian.
Excellent post, Major Tom, and a good description of the perceiving of non-physical energies:
QuoteRather, you try to "see" a favorite image for only a very brief period of time as if it comes out of nowhere. You do not try to hold it either. If it's vague (like for example seeing a half-formed image of lake surrounded by mountains) then you do not try to make it more vivid. Rather, get on with the next one! That's it for that particular image and you move on to the next.The as if part is crucial, and the critical reader here will be aware that acting as if is the true meaning of the word imagination, which is an act intricately wound up with intent and self/world bounderies
and also:
QuoteSuffice to say, sooner or later, if you stick to this process you will really perceive a version of your favorite image. One that really did come out of nowhere! Expect to be surprised with the detail and beauty of these images. They may be snapshots at first, but once you have seen for example a tree that originates not from your mind, but from elsewhere,
One of the nice things about the early phasing process is when you begin to experience these detailed scenes that begin to appear. Once, early on, a fantastic looking city appeared with surprisingly intricate detail and beauty. It was clear, upon reflection, that this remarkable scene was outside of anything I could have initiated. At the time, it was for me a significant point along the way.
Thanks again,
Nick
Major Tom wrote:QuoteBtw...not sure where my essay went, I think it's slowly disappearing in the astral consciousness forum.
It may have fallen victim to the forum changeover, I don't know. I tried a forum search but came up empty. It's such a good essay and members could benefit from reading it. If you can make it available again let me know. I'll "sticky" it in the astral conciousness forum (or another forum if you prefer).
Very best,
Nick
Hi Tom and Frank
I had a question.This afternoon I was attempting a exit, or phasing as you also prefer to call it (I am still a bit old fashioned I guess :D ) . I have been reading your comments and will describe try to describe it, to get your input.
After doing my usual energy work and relaxation exercises, I dozed off for a brief time, very brief, I had a small dream and suddenly became aware of my body on the bed again upon which the dream faded. I was left in a pretty deep trance, no body awareness a numbness and heard a few voices and sharp snaps to the right of my head. The swirling intensified and suddenly I started to see these strange signs. They looked like Chinese writing and they appeared as hypnotic images slowly almost in a frame slightly fuzzy at the edges. They kept coming at me slowly drifting toward me in a way.
I kept backing away from them just ever so gently to observe them better. There were signs as if written on a wall, then a landscape appeared and after that more lights and suddenly my wife (we are apart at the time) appeared before me, she sort of was cloudy at first and quickly took shape. I could observe her from her torso and up as she slowly walked towards me. The look on her face was one of absolute love and affection. The image became bigger and she slowly reached out for me and put an arm around my neck and kissed me gently with a big smile. The feeling was other worldly and very pleasant. At this point I got emotional and the image faded pretty fast. Then my alarm went off and I had to go to work. Normally the hypnotic imaging I have experienced have been only visual, but in this I actually felt her hand and she was aware it was me, and I felt her as she smiled and kissed me. Yet it was not a lucid dream, at least not as I know them, and the color swirling was still around the edges and as the image faded it slowly abated.
I know for a fact that at the precise time this happened she was meditating and praying for me, as I am in the middle of some big personal decisions.
For a while I have tried to project to her and have been mildly successful. One time I was able to stand outside her bedroom door, and some one came from an adjoining room and stopped startled and looked toward me. It was as if he saw something but still could not see me, he stood there for a full minute or so and left, after which the scene faded.
Are these experiences solely mine or could there be energies at play from her side as well, could she have projected in a way to me or could this be a sort of remote viewing of a kind.
We are very close, soul mates if you will but separated for personal reasons at this time.
What do you think?
Regards Mustardseed
Thanks Tom
You know there is just something about your posts that feel .............different, familiar.......hey what do I know
Regards MS
"This afternoon I was attempting a exit, or phasing as you also prefer to call it"
There is no such thing as an "exit" with the Phasing approach.
Traditional obe constructs rest on the notion that "consciousness" somehow "leaves the body" and enters what is commonly called an "astral body". The whole process of which the traditionalists term "the exit".
I would argue the whole process of all that is the engagement of a belief construct and bears little relation the facts of the wider reality. Phasing is based on the notion that consciousness is never "in" the body in the first place; and that what we term to be the Physical is merely a particular Focus of Attention that we choose to adopt for the purposes of creating a physical experience, in the place we call here.
Phasing entertains the reality of there being 4 primary focuses of attention, or areas of consciousness, all of which we already occupy. This is the primary reason why there cannot possibly be any kind of "exit". Exit implies separation, the placing of a boundary between here and there. One of the foundation principles of Phasing is there is no separation or boundaries within consciousness (something which your god-friend I'm sure will be happy to confirm).
I could go on to explain much more, but I feel I have given sufficient to present an understanding that Phasing is not merely the adoption of different terminology that essentially describes the same actions in consciousness. Phasing is an entirely different model of consciousness that bears no relation whatsoever to the traditional mystical models.
In fact, it was my dissatisfaction with the traditional mystical models that caused me to define what I would say is an approach that is aligned to the reality of what actually exists in consciousness, but in a wider sense. So the Phasing model was born.
If you'd like to find out more regarding the wider reality then perhaps you might ask your god-friend. The person in question, from the sounds of it, is resident within the area I would describe (in accordance with the Phasing model) as Focus-4 of consciousness. In which case they should be able to tell you all about it. :)
Yours,
Frank
Thank you Frank. Ha that is a very interesting idea, and I will ask the question at the earliest time possible. What I meant was merely to describe that I was attempting to Phase at the time, but to some would be called exit, only terminology. How does Robert see this theory by the way. After all he is the one who I personally first heard use the expression "exit", and he also writes extensively about it using this terminology?
I am starting to understand better the phasing concept, and so far it has been a very interesting ride. Fits very well with his attempt to explain Reincarnation, in his essay on the subject.
Don't know why I never thought of asking "my God friend" as you call it , sometimes the simplest solutions escape our attention. I wonder if we as humans are somehow conditioned by the mind to lay aside simple solutions in favor of the more complex ones. Ha
In any case my question remains. I have on several occasions been able to access or being accessed by my wife, though we are an ocean apart. Could this be telepathy, if so what focus would it be. I suppose I am looking for a down to earth "use" of the whole experience. The personal growth that it brings with it is obvious, but is there areas of this life, this awareness, in which the experience can be useful. I read Edgar Cayce and am very interested in healing etc. Where do you think this occur.
Another question is that I have on maybe a dozen times been approached by people I know in this life, who have told me their innermost secrets almost as if in therapy, maybe in focus 21, what Robert calls Astral sight. Very chocking experiences. Is it possible to help someone else while in this focus level, who is present in only the first focus levels, sort of a retrieval but with people who are all ready alive and active here.
Thanks for taking the time, its very much appreciated
Regards Mustardseed
Ha ha ha, you have the "main man" on tap and you are asking ME questions! LOL. Perhaps I should take that as an incredibly kind compliment. :)
Notions such as "exit" and "separation" are mystical constructs that people engage as an action in consciousness. Bob Bruce openly describes himself as a mystic, so it comes as no surprise that he incorporates these models in his thinking.
These actions are all very well, but the models of consciousness they represent do have particular limitations when it comes to incorporating the entirety of our system. These mystical models were formed based on people's understanding as existed at the times the models were formed. Bob Bruce openly admits to leaning heavily on the more Eastern mystical traditions when it comes to his presentation of a more general overview. Which again is not surprising as his speciality is more real-time zone and astral exploration in the traditional sense. Plus his healing work, of course.
But my background is strictly Monroe School, which is how it all began for me. Plus, I have absolutely no inherent religious bias, as my family did not engage any kind of religion at all and neither did I (I still don't in fact). I've since moved on from the Monroe model and developed the Phasing model. In doing so I have attempted to formulate a model of consciousness that fits as closely as possible to the actual structure of our system. In other words, I wanted to "fill in the blanks" so to speak, of the Monroe multi-focus model.
The traditional models have core differences to the Monroe and the Phasing models. As such, very little can be compared between them. F21 is not "astral sight" as you say. The two are radically different constructs. Astral sight is a construct that is related to the notion of a "third eye". I suppose to the early explorers, that is how it looked in an objective sense. But we don't actually have a "third eye". It's just a construct that came about from people forming a conclusion based on their objective viewing of a particular phenomenon. Like when people objectively viewed the sun moving around Earth. It was obvious to them that the sun revolved around us. After all, anyone could view the phenomenon for himself or herself... so it must be right!
Unfortunately, the traditional mystical models are riddled with these kinds of inherent mistakes in perception, caused by people having objectified the various phenomena; thinking that it must be right, because that's how it looked.
Regarding reincarnation, I have not read Bob Bruce's essay on the matter so it would not be right for me to comment. But I can say the Phasing model incorporates the notion of both Simultaneous-Time and Linear-Time frameworks. My stance is that from people's misunderstanding of the interaction between these two basic time frameworks, the religious notions of reincarnation came about (as I've looked at it all ways and can see no other reason).
All of which your god-friend should be able to clarify for you (along with the other bits and bobs you mention).
Yours,
Frank
Hi Frank
Well I asked him and ....well you can read what he had to say. Besides being cryptic as usual he did seem to admit to something......maybe it makes sense to you, more than me. Ha. He also asked me to ask you about the bits and bobs as you call it. I guess you can read it yourself.
Regards Mustardseed
Still Frank,all things considered and my own inability or whatever, I did have an experience that I still struggle with, what do you think happened, as per my last post.
Regards Mustardseed
Dear Frank and all
For a while I have been mulling things over and have a few questions, to ask. The answers seem to elude me and the whole issue seems to be a bit of a catch 22 so bear with me.
If we assume that the constructs people have been putting on the OBE/Phazing experience, be it a mystic or more traditional religious one are only constructs, to make the experience fathomable to the mind, what makes the phasing model "better" "correcter" or more accurate, as a tool to describe what actually happens. If they are all tools (constructs) to describe an experience that seem to have no real definition or explanation, using the parameters of the known universe we all inhabit, would it not stand to reason that the phasing idea is just another construct?
I confuse myself so if you do not understand the above its OK.Ha
So far I must admit the phasing works at some level with me, yet the exit experience seems so real that my mind battle with just seeing this as a elevation of awareness. In this I mean that moving from one place to another as in a conscious exit, tricks my brain, and makes it difficult for me to cope with the idea of phasing. It seems so abstract, and the exit so "down to earth" :D
If we see all these experiences for what they are without getting tangled up in what and how they happen, the mechanics of it all if you will, it seems to become easier to focus on why they are happening. This may be a springing point for some as here the belief seem to have an effect. A religious person may look for "the path" and a non religious person may just wander around thinking or trusting it all to be a fiction, however real it may appear, none of them KNOW.
What is the deeper meaning to you guys, why are we having these experiences? Does the Phasing model have something on this? it seems the Mystic and religious people do but what say ye......
Regards Mustardseed
I guess what is important is why do you think you are having these experiences.
It is the old analogy of the snake and the rope. If I walk into a dark barn and see a snake I am going to be scared, because in the past I have encountered snakes or heard about people encountering snakes and their description of the snake and all the terrible things that it can do to you. But then someone turns on the light and I see that the snake is actually a rope.
I know it is a rope, because I have used this braided length of twine before to do many tasks like tying my horse to a post or stringing it up to hang my laundry up to dry.
Of course, what happens if I have never seen or heard of a snake before? I go into my dark barn looking for a rope only to pick up what I thought was a rope and have it bite me.
We find it convenient to trust in our beliefs, but we must get to a point where we are always aware.
A rope is not a snake and a snake is not a rope no matter how similar they might appear to be in the dark. We must know a thing for what it is and not what it appears to be based upon false belief.
But I must give the mystics of old credit. They were scientests to a certain extent. They did a lot of work for us and helped to widdle away much of our false beliefs. However, they made the mistake of widdling away a layer of false belief just to accept the next layer as fact.
And of course they are going to warn you of demons and all the lot, because they don't want to see you get hurt. Thus all the love and light stuff. If your thoughts are pure and you are full of love then when you go within yourself, you are going to experience nice things. But if you are full of fear and angxiety when you enter focus 2 then you are going to encounter all sorts of terrible things.
For the mystics, it made more sense to say that they were traveling to some place outside of themselves where all these crazy beings existed.
For Frank, it makes more sense to say that you are going within yourself and encountering aspects of your mind, which tells me that these mystics were pretty fearful people. But you would be too if every day you had to worry about having enough to eat or worry about being killed for the food that you did have.
Heh, it kind of makes sense now that the mystics of all people would be the ones to seek power and security. Heh, they are so high and mighty yet the only reason they are high and mighty is because they are so scared to be brawling over scraps of food. No wonder they saw demons and hellspawns everywhere they turned in focus 2. And of course, they had to spread the good news of their own consciousnesses and make everyone else as scared as they were. Thanks guys! We owe you one.
ha let me guess, you are a city boy.......ehhh maybe around 20 :lol:
lol
Glad you take my little poke in good humor. In my experience those who speak as do you have built their "Faith" on the notion that fear by definition in un-real a bluf and does not "really" exist.
This might be very well and work in certain circumstances but in others maybe not. You just wait till you happen to come face to face with "Old Red" the meanest bull west of............ well whatever :lol: one day down on the farm. When that 800 kg of muscle and horns come charging down the side of your old barn because you forgot to close the fence.....you turn mystic mighty fast, and I tell you it will do you no good telling that bull he don't exist. Trust me.
I bet you get my point
:D
Regards Mustardseed
Mustardseed,
I love the analogy! Our bull was "Beau" -- a red Beefmaster. And yes, he could be mighty crabby! Do I take it that you are a country boy?
On the subject of fear and fearful things, that would be a major reason to know whether the astral is inside or outside of "us."
If we do not actually exit during an OBE, then all the things we see, whether good or bad, are aspects of our own nature. That being the case, nothing can harm us during an OBE.
On the other hand, if we do actually "exit," then the astral is outside of ourselves, and so are the spooky things. If that is so, then there could be harmful things/beings "out there."
Interesting...
mustardseed needs some medicine.
very funny you should say that Ben I actually do. I am presently in a cellar room with 102 fever and needs some headache pills and electrolytes. Ha what are the chances of that.
Actually I spent a good deal of time in the country side but born and bread city. My experience are with spiritual things. You assumption that only things on the outside are harmful is also an assumption.
In the astral there appears to be no outside/inside each apparition, experience and manifestation has to be tested on its own.
Regards Mustardseed
Hrm, I guess I need to clarify myself a bit.
My analogy about the snake and the rope was not suppossed to prove that something does not exist. Rather, I was using it to show how someone can place their own personal views ontop of reality and thus distort what reality really is.
i.e. a person who has no idea what a snake is would have a worldview that did not include snakes. So when they encounter something in their dark barn that has a shape that resembles a rope they will most likely think it is a rope. It will not even occur to them that it could be a snake, because due to their limited knowledge about the world, they do not even know what a snake is. Of course, they will soon find out when that rope decides to bite them.
We are always in the dark, so-to-speak, in that we never know everything. There is always the chance that when I encounter something new I am going to mistake it for something else that I do know. For all I know, someone could of soaked a roap in some sort of poison that can be absorbed throught the skin. I, never being paranoid enough to think that someone would do something like that, come across this wet rope and believe that it is a roap that has been soaked in water. So, I pick it up and next thing I know I'm dead.
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If we do not actually exit during an OBE, then all the things we see, whether good or bad, are aspects of our own nature. That being the case, nothing can harm us during an OBE.
I am willing to say that we harm ourselves all the time due to aspects of our self.
I am sure there are things about yourself that you would like to change because of their adverse affect upon you or you know people that harm theirselves just because of their personality or bad habits etc.
What exactly are the differences between F12 and F15? Can't anyone on these forums answer that???
Nick,
Try this link:
http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=160894&highlight=f12+f15#160894
Pay special regard to the postings by Frank - he does a pretty good job of outlining the Monroe model in this post, and mapping it to his FoC model.
Take care,
Shinobi
I guess I need to do some clarifying as well.
When I say
QuoteIf we do not actually exit during an OBE, then all the things we see, whether good or bad, are aspects of our own nature. That being the case, nothing can harm us during an OBE.
I mean things separate and apart from our own mind/brain.
So far as our own minds harming us, that is a given. Even hard science is now getting on board with that concept. Just a few examples pop to mind: heart problems, migraine headaches, high blood pressure, etc. I am pretty sure we can also create purely mental problems for ourselves as well.
But, while the above examples are "real," they aren't initiated by an outside force -- it's not like running into a tree while OBEing.
Okay, I may have succeeded in confusing even myself. :wink: