I respect you for admitting this. Ego is a very dangerous thing, and it's hard too control sometimes. myself, i have a problem with my temper. i think no, it's more that i can get really moody. that's what i'm going too try and work on. i try too be aware that there could be a outside influence.
my opinion is too many people here take everything they believe too be absolute, and they are not flexable too that it could be wrong.
i think it's best too have multiple perspectives, but if your ego is too big and you always think everything you believe is right, then we get these flame wars. every situation is different, and you should look at each one differently, even if you think it is the same thing that has effected you before.
at least this is my two cents.
Fat_Turkey,
You know it would have been nicer if you had asked the people Enderwiggin has helped how they felt about him, and what he has really given other people.
You know, if you can Astral Project, has it ever occurred to you to go with Enderwiggin or Spectral Dragon and see what is actually happening, instead of assuming we're all just making this crap up?
Just a challenge, not an attack, you're not gonna die.
James you said you thought maybe you needed more experience. Assuming you can do what I can't, why don't you guys AP and interact with what Spectral and Ender interact with. Look for yourselves.
Hi Shedt. What you say is true, at least I believe it to be true. I just wish the flaming would stop. It's a tremendous waste of energy, to be angry, or to hate. Yet, at the same time, it is also natural to be angry. It is a human emotion. However, one should still try to find a constructive output for it rather than using it for destructive purposes such as flaming.
quote:
Originally posted by EnderWiggin
Hi Shedt. What you say is true, at least I believe it to be true. I just wish the flaming would stop. It's a tremendous waste of energy, to be angry, or to hate. Yet, at the same time, it is also natural to be angry. It is a human emotion. However, one should still try to find a constructive output for it rather than using it for destructive purposes such as flaming.
I do not know personally if it is natural. maybe it is not ? from my perspective, it seems almost taught. i think it comes from frustration. frustration when your ego gets hurt.
but there are other ways too vent. I think, if i get frustrated, and my child sees so, and unstead of getting angry i try too focus myself and use positive emotions then maybe my child will learn the same.
i think personally things like hate and anger are learned. You learn them from others i think, this is how one copes too frustration i believe. but i think you can learn other ways in the begining, and maybe we should try too teach others and our children this.
IMHO
quote:
i think it's best too have multiple perspectives, but if your ego is too big and you always think everything you believe is right, then we get these flame wars. every situation is different, and you should look at each one differently, even if you think it is the same thing that has effected you before.
Shedt you're right, but even in varying levels there are absolutes (even an absolute is a degree). If you've fallen into a lake and you're drowning, it's an absolute that you're drowning, there is no room for debate. How would you feel if you were drowning and people were standing by the shore debating whether or not it was actually happening? What would that do to your sense of human dignity, your sense of belonging to creation? Shedt, you have a kind heart, but too many people are coming here out of desperation and from reading Robert's book, and instead of getting help they are getting attitudes which place them further under the control of whatever negs are attacking them.
Another problem is that when people are terrified out of their minds they don't communicate well, because either they don't have the words or don't know how to express. They express the basics, which resemble any mental illness. Widfis described his girlfriend's condition one way, then a second time, gave more detail. Alumendor described his daughter's experiences, they intially sounded like a drug or mental problem, then later on he gave more detail, and unless Holy Water cures Mental Problems...I can provide countless examples from previous threads. It's like "Can't you see what's happening to me, isn't it obvious?" That's why I, Spectral, and a host of other people ask for more information over and over. You have to be patient and not take things at face value, because odds are, it isn't.
quote:
Originally posted by Dark Knight
quote:
i think it's best too have multiple perspectives, but if your ego is too big and you always think everything you believe is right, then we get these flame wars. every situation is different, and you should look at each one differently, even if you think it is the same thing that has effected you before.
Shedt you're right, but even in varying levels there are absolutes (even an absolute is a degree). If you've fallen into a lake and you're drowning, it's an absolute that you're drowning, there is no room for debate.
why ? can i swim ? is the water cold ? am i wearing clothes that are making it hard for me too float ? people have "drowned" and have been brought back before.
quote:
How would you feel if you were drowning and people were standing by the shore debating whether or not it was actually happening?
well, it depends. maybe your a expert swimmer and they know that. there could be multiple variables. not everyone has the same belief systems. Maybe you think you are drowning, and you find out the water is only a few feet deep.... as well, you can drown on only a tea-spoon of water i heard....
quote:
What would that do to your sense of human dignity, your sense of belonging to creation?
if you need help, and you are drowning, then yell. if in reality the water is only 3 feet deep, and they tell you such, and you refuse too believe so then ask yourself, are you really drowning ?
you can always say, I need your help, I cannot stand up. but if you don't say so then they will not know.
and if they refuse then they are not nice i guess.
quote:
Shedt, you have a kind heart, but too many people are coming here out of desperation and from reading Robert's book, and instead of getting help they are getting attitudes which place them further under the control of whatever negs are attacking them.
but alot of them are coming here and they are looking for only a solution, when sometimes they just need too look at their situation. with any problem you need to diagnoise it first. and even if you do, how do you know that is the ocrrect one ?
i have a question here for Spectral, how do you know if something is a neg, or a thought form someone creates from their own mind ?
quote:
Another problem is that when people are terrified out of their minds they don't communicate well, because either they don't have the words or don't know how to express.
yes this would be a problem, but they themselves I believe are the only ones that would hamper themselves too learn how too better communicate. sometimes people don't communicate well beacuse of thier ego. they only see it their way, and before they ever come here they have thier mind already made up.
quote:
They express the basics, which resemble any mental illness.
yes, and it should never be ruled out that it is not a mental illness.
to do so would be ignorant i believe.
quote:
Widfis described his girlfriend's condition one way, then a second time, gave more detail. Alumendor described his daughter's experiences, they intially sounded like a drug or mental problem, then later on he gave more detail, and unless Holy Water cures Mental Problems...
it can cure a mental problem if you Beleieve its the only thing that can help you. that's called a placebo correct ? i think even in the church the first things they do is too check if it is a mental problem.
quote:
I can provide countless examples from previous threads. It's like "Can't you see what's happening to me, isn't it obvious?"
well, you should never i think rule out anything personally.
quote:
That's why I, Spectral, and a host of other people ask for more information over and over. You have to be patient and not take things at face value, because odds are, it isn't.
i agree.
quote:
well, it depends. maybe your a expert swimmer and they know that. there could be multiple variables. not everyone has the same belief systems. Maybe you think you are drowning, and you find out the water is only a few feet deep.... as well, you can drown on only a tea-spoon of water i heard....
Did you ask or just assume. What about your thoughts or how you think?
quote:
yes this would be a problem, but they themselves I believe are the only ones that would hamper themselves too learn how too better communicate.
No Shedt, you have a responsiblity. You aren't going to die if you need to learn how to be more empathic or patient with people...that is also a form of communication, and one you should make an effort to learn. You aren't the one struggling, and making an effort ot be empathic is the most postive show of love anyone can display to another, and most times, that is what people need to see, not aloofness or judgement from the ones safe on the shore.
quote:
Originally posted by Dark Knight
quote:
well, it depends. maybe your a expert swimmer and they know that. there could be multiple variables. not everyone has the same belief systems. Maybe you think you are drowning, and you find out the water is only a few feet deep.... as well, you can drown on only a tea-spoon of water i heard....
Did you ask or just assume. What about your thoughts or how you think?
assume what ? can you re-phrase that please ? I'm confused at what you are saying.
quote:
yes this would be a problem, but they themselves I believe are the only ones that would hamper themselves too learn how too better communicate.
quote:
No Shedt, you have a responsiblity.
it takes two to communicate. The responisibity should be equal. If someone does not understand me, i should try my hardest too also listen and try too learn how too better too communicate what i am saying.
it's a equal thing i believe.
quote:
You aren't going to die if you need to learn how to be more empathic or patient with people...
but this is too fold, you have too give the same respect to someone you are trying too communicate with. IMHO
quote:
that is also a form of communication, and one you should make an effort to learn.
how is it a form of communication ?
yes, but it still should be equal. if someone does not understand me, i should not yell at them, i should try and explain myself better. rise above the situation and not lower myself.
multiple perspectives.
quote:
You aren't the one struggling, and making an effort ot be empathic is the most postive show of love anyone can display to another, and most times, that is what people need to see, not aloofness or judgement from the ones safe on the shore.
but it's like being positive too. you even said it yourself, you can be positive at the wrong time. this will go the same as being empathic. If a person does not try too help themselves and is feeding off other's, then maybe the timeimg is right too not be empathic ?
quote:
how is it a form of communication ?
You have got to be kidding me? Empathy and understanding another person's experience? How is that not communication? What is your definition of communication exactly?
quote:
it takes two to communicate. The responisibity should be equal.
How long have you been married?!? No, it's not always equal, sometimes the one that is in the position to give more has the responsiblity to do so. You don't expect it from other people, especially if they are vulnerable and may be unable to do so. Your feelings, your ego, is not more valuable than a person? That isn't how you prioritize.
quote:
assume what ? can you re-phrase that please ? I'm confused at what you are saying.
What about how YOU think, how your priorities affect others? Does that mean anything?
quote:
If a person does not try too help themselves and is feeding off other's, then maybe the timeimg is right too not be empathic ?
You don't make that demand on the spot! People need time to grow, and they need support! You don't automatically assume because they aren't doing it when you think it should be done it's because they're lazy, irresponsible, whatever. They need to be weened off!
quote:
You know, if you can Astral Project, has it ever occurred to you to go with Enderwiggin or Spectral Dragon and see what is actually happening, instead of assuming we're all just making this crap up?
Just a challenge, not an attack, you're not gonna die.
James you said you thought maybe you needed more experience. Assuming you can do what I can't, why don't you guys AP and interact with what Spectral and Ender interact with. Look for yourselves.
Well, any takers. It's just crap right, people under attack are mostly making this up, right? Most people are just mentally ill so there is nothing really out there, right? Not like you're gonna get attacked or attached or get ripped away from your body, right?
quote:
Originally posted by Dark Knight
quote:
how is it a form of communication ?
You have got to be kidding me? Empathy and understanding another person's experience? How is that not communication? What is your definition of communication exactly?
I supose if you are trying too communicate feelings sure.
quote:
it takes two to communicate. The responisibity should be equal.
How long have you been married?!?
what does my marriage have too do with this disscusion ?
quote:
No, it's not always equal, sometimes the one that is in the position to give more has the responsiblity to do so.
it may not always be equal, but it should be IMHO. if you are going too give that is your choice.
is it right too take from another without thier consent ?
quote:
You don't expect it from other people, especially if they are vulnerable and may be unable to do so.
why should i not expect others too act equally ?
if i choose too give that is my choice.
it does not make someone elses choice too take without asking, or too be angry and hostile correct.
quote:
Your feelings, your ego, is not more valuable than a person?
i never said it was. helping and communicating too a person is what this is about. both parties should respect each other and be treated equally i believe.
quote:
That isn't how you prioritize.
why ? why must it always be only one way ?
quote:
assume what ? can you re-phrase that please ? I'm confused at what you are saying.
quote:
What about how YOU think, how your priorities affect others? Does that mean anything?
just as much as thier priorities.it should be equal. i think i should try my hardest too be equal, what do you think ?
quote:
If a person does not try too help themselves and is feeding off other's, then maybe the timeimg is right too not be empathic ?
quote:
You don't make that demand on the spot!
i did not say i was making a demand. it's a choice.
quote:
People need time to grow, and they need support!
ok, but why do you keep lumping everything as one thing ?
not every person and every situation is the same.
quote:
You don't automatically assume because they aren't doing it when you think it should be done it's because they're lazy, irresponsible, whatever. They need to be weened off!
[/quote]
that is one perspective, can you think of some more ?
Because there is a pattern to life and how we grow and evolve, it's not the "scattered to the four winds different to the point of being unrecognizable by everyone" circumstance you appear to be embracing.
Rape, murder, mugging, psychic attack, death, even a break up of a relationship are all similiar forms of loss in varying levels of intensity. Like a pin prick is one level of pain and a gunshot is a much higher level of pain...but both are a form of pain. In the internal there is disentegration of certain boundaries depending on the level of intensity of the experience. The more intense, the more boundary destruction there is. We have similiarites as people, we need understanding, we need support, we need to receive from people and we need to give.
Your questions aren't doing anything, just creating a circular generalized argument. Try being specific.
quote:
Originally posted by Dark Knight
Because there is a pattern to life and how we grow and evolve, it's not the "scattered to the four winds different to the point of being unrecognizable by everyone" circumstance you appear to be embracing.
Rape, murder, mugging, psychic attack, death, even a break up of a relationship are all similiar forms of loss in varying levels of intensity. Like a pin prick is one level of pain and a gunshot is a much higher level of pain...but both are a form of pain. In the internal there is disentegration of certain boundaries depending on the level of intensity of the experience. The more intense, the more boundary destruction there is. We have similiarites as people, we need understanding, we need support, we need to receive from people and we need to give.
Your questions aren't doing anything, just creating a circular generalized argument. Try being specific.
i was specific. like, what does my marrige have to do with this topic ?
quote:
i was specific. like, what does my marrige have to do with this topic ?
No, this is challenging for the hell of challenging. Your not assigning anything to feel anything out. You're keeping mental and airy, and we're mental, emotional, physical and spiritual.
Methinks she's attempting to scope you out to see if your single. Most people correct false assumptions even when it's weird people making those assumptions.
I find your reasoning to be well fomulated. DK does indeed go in circles. Circular arguements are one way psychic vampires cause others to lower and weaken their defenses thus making them more easily fed upon.
Jessica
quote:
Originally posted by shedt
quote:
Originally posted by Dark Knight
Because there is a pattern to life and how we grow and evolve, it's not the "scattered to the four winds different to the point of being unrecognizable by everyone" circumstance you appear to be embracing.
Rape, murder, mugging, psychic attack, death, even a break up of a relationship are all similiar forms of loss in varying levels of intensity. Like a pin prick is one level of pain and a gunshot is a much higher level of pain...but both are a form of pain. In the internal there is disentegration of certain boundaries depending on the level of intensity of the experience. The more intense, the more boundary destruction there is. We have similiarites as people, we need understanding, we need support, we need to receive from people and we need to give.
Your questions aren't doing anything, just creating a circular generalized argument. Try being specific.
i was specific. like, what does my marrige have to do with this topic ?
I make no accusations in my following statement.
Flaming is BAD. It accomplishes nothing, it's just destructive and it's a waste of everybody's time and energy. So if you're going to argue, do it logically and be civilized about it. Everyone has the right to speak their mind, but when you start accusing people of things in a hostile manner, things get out of hand. The whole reason Fat Turkey's post went crazy in the first place is because of the fact that the very first sentence he used was flaming and it caused lots of tension for everyone. That sends a message to others that it's okay to flame. Nobody bothered to publicly address this with him. From there, everyone else started flaming and bashing. Now I believe I am seeing it here on my own thread, and I'm just asking that it will stop. No more retaliation. We all live in glass houses, so nobody should throw stones. Yes, me too. I've got my own faults, and I've made them quite apparent at times here on this forum. I admit to them and I won't try to deny them. I just ask that people stop ragging on each other. Fighting amongst ourselves is solving nothing. it gives our common enemy time to prepare an attack. If we simply put forth our observations, it would be a lot more helpful. When you take apart a valid argument, you are left with the one thing nobody can deny: facts. In case you've forgotten facts pertain to phenomena that are true. It is from facts that we must build our arguments. Now let's stop fighting our fellow brothers and sisters and unite, under the common threat we all face if nothing else, each and every one of us, so that we can accomplish something.
Ender- thank you for you thoughts, and thank you for trying to bring these arguments to an end.
People can become so used to opposing a particular persons view, they can forget why they originally opposed them.
I have been guilty of letting my anger speak through my words here. It isn't nice, and I will often feel guilty about it afterwards.
A good way to avoid this is to use Word or Wordpad to type up your response, but don't post it. Start out as angry as you like. Use as much foul language and abuse as you want. This will get it out of your system. Then read through it a couple of times once you've calmed down and see if it is really what you want to say. Once you proof-read your own posts a couple of times you'll end up editing it a lot, and the end result will most likely be something much more thoughtful, and to the point.
Ok, so this means that you're not engaging in a rapid fire debate. The best debates are ones that are well thought out, not emotional and reactive. It also becomes more obvious when your arguing against someone who's stuck in a thought loop, and totally intent on their own perspectives, because they will tend to miss key elements of your argument, typically the ones designed to move the conversation forward.
A friend told me this quote just recently. I thought it appropriate, although it really isn't very politically correct so please don't take offence to it:
Argueing (in anger) on the internet is like competing in the special olympics. You might win, but you're still retarded.
regards,
James.
Enderwiggin you are absolutely right, and I agree with everything in your latest post.
When I saw this thread and how quickly old perspectives began to clash, I thought oh no, here we go again. Nobody was listening to me when I said that these issues have to be sorted out were they? Didn't I say that ignoring them wouldn't make them go away. I told you so.
So, lets put an end to this pointless argument, sweep old predjudices under the carpet and hear nothing of them ever again. Well, except when the lump under the carpet keeps on tripping the guests on their faces.
whoops, should have posted my topic here![:I] sorry guys.
EDIT:
WHAT IS WRONG WITH PSD?
NO CLARITY IN POSTS OR IDEAS. We are all arguing because we don't understand each other and we are not trying to. We are causing harm to ourselves and we are starting our own negativity. negative feeds off of negative. ALL OF US ARE GUILTY OF THIS!!! Let's break the patterns here and start something more positive!!![:)]
I am seeing people (myself included) trying to act all spiritual and fluffy and new-agy. Let's just get to the point and be more clear what we are trying to say.
YES!!! Clarity is definately needed! I for one believe in balance, so you should check out my topic about balance (which on second thoughts maybe should have been part of this topic, so here it is http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=10569).
Pulling apart people's responses peice by peice isn't helping, its just adding confusion. By doing it you are reducing the person's point to a bunch of unrelated statements. A point is the sum of its parts. The point needs to be addressed directly, because if you prove the "parts" wrong then there are always plenty of other "parts" to take their place. If you keep arguing about the parts the point gets ignored, and you forget why the argument started in the first place.
Oh what a world, what a world.
What's your point, lullabi?
Who said I had a point? [;)]
There also has to be realistic goals to set. To overcome this and take responsiblity, a goal has to be set that is attainable. Setting unrealistic goals that can't be met dooms personal responsiblity from ever getting off the ground. Philosophizing about what the goals might be never solidifies anything or creates anything positive. Failure after failure and precious energy sucked away.
That's not a life. Action creates and solidifies in the physical world we live in, not philosphizing or good intentions.
I agree. Actions speak louder than words. So let's take actions that will make this forum a better place for everyone, by controlling what we say and how we say it. And no more circular arguments. Patience is one thing, but sometimes these arguments get a little excessively philosophical, and, as Sam said, we often tend to get away from the actual subject to the point where we forgot what we were arguing about in the first place. Let's keep these topics on track. If you want to talk about something else, start your own thread.
quote:
Originally posted by lullabi
Who said I had a point? [;)]
So it was a pointless comment. *scratches head*. Why say it then?
Any-hoo...
quote:
You can't put out a fire with fire. The negativity here has skyrocketed lately, and I think I can safely say that it has all of us concerned.
What negativity? So far all I've seen is people arguing trying to reach an understanding. There may have been plenty of emotion involved (which is understandable considering the strength with which everyone holds their opinion) but I think people trying to reach an understanding is a positive thing. The fact that people are willing to discuss their personal opinions quite openly is also positive. The fact that a few personal insults may have been made or percieved in emotional moments is negative I will agree, but the process of people being honest and talking about how they really feel is far more positive and constructive than if we all went around thinking we knew everything and didn't talk to other people at all.
quote:
You know, if you can Astral Project, has it ever occurred to you to go with Enderwiggin or Spectral Dragon and see what is actually happening, instead of assuming we're all just making this crap up?
Just a challenge, not an attack, you're not gonna die.
James you said you thought maybe you needed more experience. Assuming you can do what I can't, why don't you guys AP and interact with what Spectral and Ender interact with. Look for yourselves.
Has anyone even tried DK's proposal? Maybe you'll learn something from it. We can sit here typing out our logic all day long and not learn anything new, why not go and see for yourself, and report back when you're all done? Everyone here who claims to have the skills it takes, why not take a few hours out of your ever so precious time to find out who we are and what we are doing. You will find that we never lied, never decieved you, and that your groundless accusations (an example will follow) were uncalled for.
quote:
Methinks she's attempting to scope you out to see if your single. Most people correct false assumptions even when it's weird people making those assumptions.
I find your reasoning to be well fomulated. DK does indeed go in circles. Circular arguements are one way psychic vampires cause others to lower and weaken their defenses thus making them more easily fed upon.
Are you trying to wipe away DK's credibility by asserting that she is a psychic vampite? You had better have some damn good proof if you are going to make an allegation like that. Simply pointing the finger and saying "Mummy I don't like her because I think her arguments are circular- SHE MUST BE A VAMPIRE" doesn't cut the cheese I'm afraid... well, unless we are living in medieval europe. BURN THE WITCH HAHAHAHAHA.
*ahem*
Anyway so if you're going to say DK is a vampire, prove it. That sort of accusation is potentially hurtful and could destroy her reputation if its false. I'm sure you wouldn't want to hurt an innocent person. (remember - innocent until proven guilty, i.e. JUSTICE)
quote:
There also has to be realistic goals to set. To overcome this and take responsiblity, a goal has to be set that is attainable. Setting unrealistic goals that can't be met dooms personal responsiblity from ever getting off the ground. Philosophizing about what the goals might be never solidifies anything or creates anything positive. Failure after failure and precious energy sucked away.
That's not a life. Action creates and solidifies in the physical world we live in, not philosphizing or good intentions.
I agree Dark Knight. We can sit here all day saying um and ah this and that etc etc, but it gets nothing done. I think a realistic goal here would be for everyone concerned to try out DK's proposal to AP and see for yourselves what it is we're talking about. First hand evidence would certainly put to rest any doubts in your minds, and it will also put this clashing of views to a closure. Or would you rather live your lives in ignorance.
It's up to everyone to make whatever choice they think is right.
On the subject of flaming, could calling someone "a psychic vampire" be equivalent to name calling? I would feel a lot more hurt if someone called me a "psychic vampire" than, say, "bubblehead". If an accuser can offer substantial proof of their accusation then okay, but if not, why aren't they termed name-calling and deleted? How about if I called someone a peadophile, because they refer to children a lot in their arguments? How about if I called someone a loser, because they don't have any friends. I think such comments are made to put people down and I see it as intentionally hurtful. Calling someone "psychic vampire" without any real background knowledge or observational evidence is the same as childish name calling.
quote:
Originally posted by Sam
quote:
Originally posted by lullabi
Who said I had a point? [;)]
So it was a pointless comment. *scratches head*. Why say it then?
I don't know, I just felt like saying something. Sorry. [:)]
This is all pointless and a waste of energy in my mind. What the hell has everyone been drinking lately? These little battles going on are really starting to get to me. Namely, the ones between Shedt and DK. How many posts do y'all gotta hijack? I've seen this same argument in 3 other posts.
Enough.
~ivan
I'm not trying to battle anyone. I'm just trying too learn and understand myself. I'm sorry if my questions or responses offended you.
I'm just trying too make sense of all this like everyone else.
I was just trying too be kind and honest and learn.
sorry if that offended you.
I think everyone agrees that flaming is bad, yet we are well on our way to make the tread a very hot place. It is not the fighting that bothers me most; it's that people fail to make up after. These debates take place on regular basis, but it seems nothing is accomplished.
Perhaps a large part of the problem is that people refuse to see the other side, everyone (I definitely do at times) hold their argument so close, it seems we are afraid that if we let it go we might actually die in someway, as the person we are at this moment.
I don't want to move in to much spiritual babbling, but I do think the root of the problem lies in our ego, we attach to our current beliefs to much and we have so much desire to be right, for that we much prove someone else wrong, at least that how our ego looks at things.
That's not to say debate is wrong, it is needed of us to grow, to change, but the way it is often done now is not going to help anyone. When we share our thoughts, things still going alright its when we go for the "attack" things go wrong, we try to prove someone's statement wrong, to slice it up whiteout any consideration for the person who wrote them, he really beliefs those things you just so brutally murdered! (How dramatic!)
The problem is when you can't confront anyone on the beliefs things get very difficult, this is not acceptable either, so you have to find the a way to work around this. First when you going to post an argument against someone beliefs, you have to be respectful and polite against that person, I also feel if you post an argument in disagreement to someone's beliefs you should make a good constructive argument to why you disagree.
I think we should also learn to agree to disagree and when to keep silent. Sometimes we take things to far this is I think of our desire to be the winner, the one who proves the other wrong, the last one standing, why do we think this so important. Perhaps we should look at the reason for posting a argument, do we post because we want to help a person or do we post to show everyone how right we are?
I also want to say something about the responsibility of communicating, this should indeed be equal, but this is not always the case, it can't be. Sometimes a person is not in the position of taking this responsibility, but what are you going to do, do you forsake that person, that person we perhaps really needs help? You are going to blame him for having these problems and your going to blame him for not being able to share the responsibility because of them? I hope everyone can see this is not possible, if you want to help someone, you give it without a prize. (Even it's a fair actual prize for both) The help whiteout expecting a reward is truly admirable.
Well ill stop now, I already said so much, still I feel I left things unsaid that should be said, but I don't know which at this moment.
Much love,
Akensai.
quote:
I think we should also learn to agree to disagree and when to keep silent.
There is a time and place (A season) to agree to disagree, and there are occasions when the disagreement somehow has to be resolved. There is a time to let go and a time to be right...knowing when is the trick.
I seem to recall writing something on prioritizing values. Here it is:
http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=10576
quote:
Originally posted by Sam
Has anyone even tried DK's proposal? Maybe you'll learn something from it. We can sit here typing out our logic all day long and not learn anything new, why not go and see for yourself, and report back when you're all done? Everyone here who claims to have the skills it takes, why not take a few hours out of your ever so precious time to find out who we are and what we are doing. You will find that we never lied, never decieved you, and that your groundless accusations (an example will follow) were uncalled for.
The problem with this Sam is that for all but the most highly skilled projectors (of which category I am definitely NOT in) there are too many problems inherent with going into the astral with preconcieved notions. If any of us go in looking for proof for or against what's going on here, of course we'll find it, as thought produces form. But it will be almost guaranteed of our own making, not what's really going on.
Anyone wanting to see what's really going on here would have to be experienced at projecting and being able to do so completely unbiased and unknowing of the situation.
Kind regards,
James.
From what I've read on thought forms, there is more to the experience than just that. What about level of intensity? I mean if what Nay is describing is true, you could just change your attitude and pop it goes away...I've questioned Spectral at Length...constantly...on his perceptions and there does appear to be a difference between interacting with a thought form that goes pop and a neg that doesn't.
With regards to entities, that is genuine astral entities, what you say is correct. In this respect an astral entity will exist whether the scenario is of your creation of not. Thought form created by a projectors imagination won't make an entity come or go as the projector pleases, but it will affect how the entity is percieved, and that perception might go as far as no longer seeing it as being there. The average astral entity is not malicious, and would probably just be curious as to why you're there. If it sees no desire on your part to make contact, it will probably just go off somewhere else.
In some of his old posts, Frank described getting past this point by becoming detached from all expectations and emotions save that of mild curiosity. This allowed him to explore what was really there, not what his mind was pre-disposed to interpreting or creating for him. As an example, at times he found himself in regions just like here on earth. Villages with people - true denizens of the astral planes who live a life there much as we do here.
Regards,
James.
quote:
With regards to entities, that is genuine astral entities, what you say is correct. In this respect an astral entity will exist whether the scenario is of your creation of not. Thought form created by a projectors imagination won't make an entity come or go as the projector pleases, but it will affect how the entity is percieved, and that perception might go as far as no longer seeing it as being there. The average astral entity is not malicious, and would probably just be curious as to why you're there. If it sees no desire on your part to make contact, it will probably just go off somewhere else.
Then I'll ask again, why not go and see for yourselves if they are thought forms or real astral entities. And if you don't want to fine, just don't make assumptions about what people are and are not experiencing.
Yes, and then when you fall into our psychic trap we will suck your energy like sweet sweet blood muhahaha!!! [}:)]
Just kidding. Just trying to lighten things up a little around here... no?
quote:
Originally posted by Akensai
I think everyone agrees that flaming is bad, yet we are well on our way to make the tread a very hot place. It is not the fighting that bothers me most; it's that people fail to make up after. These debates take place on regular basis, but it seems nothing is accomplished.
Much of your post made perfect sense Akensai. People wouldn't need to make up afterwards if they could reach some sort of agreement or compromise.
quote:
This is all pointless and a waste of energy in my mind. What the hell has everyone been drinking lately? These little battles going on are really starting to get to me. Namely, the ones between Shedt and DK. How many posts do y'all gotta hijack? I've seen this same argument in 3 other posts.
Okay you're probably not the only one who's getting sick of the arguments, but that's not going to make them go away. And I don't think they are pointless. People are trying to reach an understanding, which is very... uh... point-FUL.
The post's aren't being 'hijacked', its just a normal reaction to unresolved disputes. If two people haven't reached an agreement on an issue of contention then its perfectly natural for that issue to keep coming up whenever the same two people are present and the issue is being somehow referred to.
The mindset of "I wish it would all just go away so we can be nice and friendly and happy again" denies reality. In reality, by ignoring it, it won't go away, and that will certainly stop you from being nice and friendly and happy again. In reality, reaching some form of agreement (which means a certain amount of compromise by all sides of an argument) is the only way to go.
Maybe we do need a dispute arena after all, for when things get personal?
quote:
Originally posted by James S
With regards to entities, that is genuine astral entities, what you say is correct. In this respect an astral entity will exist whether the scenario is of your creation of not. Thought form created by a projectors imagination won't make an entity come or go as the projector pleases, but it will affect how the entity is percieved, and that perception might go as far as no longer seeing it as being there. The average astral entity is not malicious, and would probably just be curious as to why you're there. If it sees no desire on your part to make contact, it will probably just go off somewhere else.
In some of his old posts, Frank described getting past this point by becoming detached from all expectations and emotions save that of mild curiosity. This allowed him to explore what was really there, not what his mind was pre-disposed to interpreting or creating for him. As an example, at times he found himself in regions just like here on earth. Villages with people - true denizens of the astral planes who live a life there much as we do here.
Regards,
James.
This is very true, however there are ways to make sure, like what me and ender did ;) The internet is a lovely thing. You can talk to each other while projecting (assuming you know how to project whithout relaxing???)
quote:
Originally posted by James S
With regards to entities, that is genuine astral entities, what you say is correct. In this respect an astral entity will exist whether the scenario is of your creation of not. Thought form created by a projectors imagination won't make an entity come or go as the projector pleases, but it will affect how the entity is percieved, and that perception might go as far as no longer seeing it as being there. The average astral entity is not malicious, and would probably just be curious as to why you're there. If it sees no desire on your part to make contact, it will probably just go off somewhere else.
I think this is sound and something that I have put forward before only that time I was accused by someone of thinking that I must think I was god but they put me right ;) The above is I think core to how well some forms of defence may or not work in that it's efficacy probably has dependence on the nature of the percieved problem plus the individuals ability at the time to (re)structure their own thinking.
I think that much of the wordage recently has simply been around this debate and how a person perhaps somewhat isolated by the experience might start to come to terms and learn to respond appropriately.
At one time I took an interest in the UFO abduction phenomena, this was because for me there seemed to be a crossover between the experiences although for many abductees they see it as a very physical experience. For me it seemed that OOBE could better fit the descriptions.
One aspect that did become apparent that is while the UFO abductees are fairly well served by a range of support groups, better than perhaps the paranormal community provides (AP is in my experience a rare exception) the in fighting was incredible and supports groups can typically have a short life, with that failure several more might be spawned but with more polarised 'answers'. My observation is that while the experiencers themselves can do much for each other simply by being able to share and break their isolation (isolation is a very big part of the ufo abductee experience), it is my view that the 'experts' were the main cause for the actual breakdown of the support group by attempting to lead based upon their own beliefs and all too often the type of content that they required for the shortly to be published book [;)]. So to Sams point, simply allowing people to present their story and for some quiet probing to draw out details is a big start for many seeking help but they will also be looking for quick fixes having in their mind been burdened long enough so might just wander off with yet more disapointment. No, I do not have the complete answer :(
I'd like to thank the mods for locking the topic entitled "to all you demon slayers." No, I'm not being sarcastic. That was an inferno waiting to happen. Let's face it, there are two sides to this issue, and both sides seem to feel VERY strongly about it. You can't put out a fire with fire. The negativity here has skyrocketed lately, and I think I can safely say that it has all of us concerned.
With that in mind, I'd like to see another "to all you demon slayers" thread posted, this time WITHOUT the flaming, so that we can all have a logical, civilized argument.
Fat Turkey, in response to your post, sure, at times I was probably inadvertently bragging, and I shouldn't have. Obviously, I need work on my ego. But at the same time, I said what I believed to be true based on the feedback from those I have helped, and I'll let them attest to my actions. Perhaps this is not the place to argue such a thing, but if you feel like posting another thread where we CAN have a civilized argument/discussion about this, then please do. It's too bad it got out of hand the first time.