'NEGS' - do they exist at all or is it only fear?

[MJ-12]

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[Qball]

Negative spirits exist, but fears can be turned into thoughtforms, which can look as real as the chair you're sitting on.  
It's just a matter of using your intuition to tell the difference.

[Tisha]

Someone define "neg" for me please?

Is it a neg because it frightens you?
Is it a neg because you don't understand it?
Is it a neg because you feel a threat from it?
Is it a neg because it feels or looks "dark?"
Is it a neg because it inconveniences you are gets in the way of what you are trying to accomplish?
Is it a neg because you think it is "evil?"  Why do you think it is evil?

Perhaps if I understood what you meant, I could speak intelligently about this issue without going off all kooky and theoretical like I did in the other forum, where I had the opportunity to respond to this same question.

I'm new to the Psychic Defense forum, please bear with me.

tish

Tisha

"As Above, So Below"

[WalkerInTheWoods]

Tisha, to answer your questions I would say Yes. From what I have read on this forum negs seem to refer to one or many of these things, depending on what you are reading at the time. I believe that most, if not all, negs are just our own fears. They may be, as I have seen Frank put it, stray energy that we do not understand. Lack of understanding can cause fear. All it takes is for someone to have a hint of a "negative" emotion or to perceive something as negative to let the situation spiral out of control. As for there being any real "negs" I do not know. I would be a fool to claim that there is not, as I do not know everything. But I do think that most if not all negs that are talked about on here are just fears.

In a way I agree with you that negativity is part of creation and is important. But I do not actually think that there is good/evil issues. I think that this energy that we are saying is negative is really just something that we do not understand. So this energy is important for growth. And negativity is important for growth, because we grow when we face our fears and go explore something that we think is negative, though later when we understand it we usually do not see it as negative any longer. Likewise these things that are called negs on the astral are most likely there to help us grow, to move beyond our fears so we can explore with more open minds.

[Qball]

Negatives = Evil
Evil: A being who uses its powers to do as much harm as possible. These beings of evil have no pity, remorse or compassion. They take delight in causing harm.

I understand negatives more then you can imagine.

Dark: it is trues that negatives are made of black energy. It's not just the black energy, but the evil feeling that emanates from them.
They look different then some spirit wearing black clothing like a priest for instance.

No I am not afraid of them anymore. I have the ability to hurt them very badly.
It is a mistake to think that thiese evil beings can be reasoned with or that they are nothing more then the creation of your own mind.  I wish they could be reasoned with and that they would turn their backs on the dark path, but
once the dark path is chosen there seems to be very few if any ways for them  to leave it.

Sometimes if your fears are strong enough they can manifest in the physical world as thoughtforms, so it's just a matter of using your intuition to tell the difference. If this  happens then this type of thoughtform does not radiate evil.

If you encounter negatives, and you decide you are going to start hugging them then they will hook into your base chakra, and if that happens then a lot of very bad stuff will happen.

I know a lot of this stuff from experience. I know it's true so I don't care if you believe me.

Qball

[Tisha]

Qball, if you are this emphatic about the subject, I believe you are experiencing EXACTLY what you say you are!  I accept the reality of EVERYONE's subjective experiences.  

I wonder how many curious, innocent entities you have blasted, just because they had dark energy that you didn't like.

Trust me, I'm no mushball.  I practice different kinds of psychic self defense (shielding, etc.).  It's just that I come from a different place, a place that does not equate dark/angry/menacing with "evil."  Dark is dark, angry is angry, menacing is menacing.  A vamipire is a vampire (and they do exist).  And so on.  I just don't slap the term "evil" on anything without throwing a grain of salt on it, a grain of salt that reminds me of just how subjective I am being when I throw value judgements at something.   "Evil" is most certainly a value judement . . . and UNDERSTANDABLE one, but a value judgment nonetheless.

In fact, since I fully accept the idea that I create my own reality, I need to take responsibility for everything I encounter.  Even the icky things.  So if I encounter a menacing being, I have to think, WHOOPS!  Where did THAT come from?  I consider it best to ask that being directly.  I learn a lot about myself that way.

I've collapsed in terror from beings that I could have called negs.  But were they really?  Or were they just visiting?  Nosy visitors, poking about my head, checking the inventory?  I didn't have the wherewithall to ask them what the heck they were doing.  Think of what I could have learned, had I kept my wits about be long enough to ask!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I am also intrigued by the practices of the Yaqui sorcerers . . . and the attitudes about the "Adversary."  Rather than considering adversaries to be evil, they acknowledge that the Adversary is the sorcerer's best friend, because the Adversary teaches you things, keeps you on your toes, hones your fighting skills, and teaches you that to be powerful, you need to be fearless.  You are to honor your adversariers.  I consider this a  VERY interesting way of thinking about things.  VERY interesting.  Eastern martial arts traditions teach pretty much the same thing.

more later!  gotta go buy mr. Bruce's latest book.


Tisha

"As Above, So Below"

[Gandalf]

Hmm,
I think the idea of a negative being makes good sensse though.
negs are said to feed of negative energy.
One of the easiest neg energies to produce if fear (and one of the most powerful)
All you have to do if your a neg is to get your victim scared shiltess and you have lots of tasty free energy.
So you're average day would consist in scaring people out of their minds and generally making their life a misery to benifit you. Its not cos your evil, its just the easiest way to do it.
so you are now a 'negative' by definition.
are you evil as well?
I would say so. although you are doing this as aprt of a plan, you are causing suffering to others which is bad.
Secondly, although you are causing people distress only so that you can access their energy, wouldnt you begin to enjoy it after a while,
I believe that  a being engaging in this kind of activity over a long period of time would become 'warped' to a certain extent and proceed to find great enjoyment in tormenting people.

I don't think this is too far fetched, I think its quite possible for a spirit to go down this path, just as in the phisical world, serial killers become addicted to killing, once they start they cant stop.
All this is negative and can be described as evil in the sense that we are talking about beings phisical/non-phisical who do nasty things to others.

Douglas

[Qball]

Tisha,
Obviously you really haven't encountered truely evil spirits or you would have more of an understanding of what I am talking about.
I only blast things that attack me first.
You seem more upset by the fact that I can and have protected myself in the past.  That in itself is very enigmatic.
Curious spirits are not made of pure black energy  nor do curious spirits radiate intense evil.
As for anything negative or evil being a magick users best friend.... All I can really say about that is the only people I have encountered who would call something negative a friend are people who use satanic magick, black magick etc.
I have seen angels of light destroy these evil beings. Actually it was these same angels who taught me how to hit back and hit back hard. If I am unable to hit back for any reason these angels of the light have told me to call upon them for protection.

If you want to call these things friends more power to you because I don't call something a friend that attacks first while I am minding my own busniess.
I have never attacked any negatives first. They have always attacked first, but from now on maybe I should start blasting away first. Then there would be less chance for me to become injured.

Evil is evil plain as that. It has nothing to do with any value judgments. Being able to tell when an evil spirit is around has everything to do with intuition.

You can honor these evil spirits all you want but I feel no such need to honor such as they are.
I have been attacked by them many times in my life, and one thing I can tell you for a fact is that they have no honor.

I have said this before and I will say it again. I have asked them what they wanted, and their response was to attack.
Do not fool yourself into thinking that anything made entirely of black energy will teach you anything if you are working with angels of the light.
If you want real teachings maybe you should ask an angel of the light. Or are you drawn to the darker teachings. Is that why you are so insistent about what you could have learned form such evil creatures. If something is truely good and pure you would not cower in terror from it.

Sure there are misguided spirits who feed off people's energy, but those do not have an evil feeling about them. All you have to do to stop a person or spirit from draining your energy is to put a white light shield around yourself.

[Tisha]

Qball, you and I must be from different planets, doing our best to earnestly communicate.  Since the good/evil dark/light u/down in/out way of thinking simply does not compute with me, I can't buy into it.  I can, however, try to understand.  If in my travels I ever come across a truly evil being I shall let you know, and adjust my opinions accordingly.  In the mean time, I will continue to explore!

It was good talking to you.


Tisha

"As Above, So Below"

[Qball]

Tisha

You have your beliefs, but I have and know the truth.

I am surprised that you found it nice talking to me at all since I did not buy into your beliefs.  You posted about negatives and received a reply from me you did not like.

I do not care what you believe in or about, and  I don't care whether you believe me or not.

Good Day : )

Qball

[WalkerInTheWoods]

Qball,
Though I doubt you will give any merit to my words, might I give a little advice. You sound rather rigid in your thinking. You say that you know the truth as if your beliefs are the only possible reality. Maybe you know the whole truth and everyone else is wrong. Or maybe not. You should be open to the possibility that some of your views could be wrong. Otherwise how is one to learn and grow? I am always questioning and testing my beliefs. If I do not then how will I ever learn anything or find out if they hold any truth. Likewise, I may not agree with someone else, but I will give their ideas some weight and reason and test them as well. They might see something that I do not. Being open is the only way that I can see one being able to grow.

(I hope my words are not taken as being harsh. They are not intended that way.)

[astralspinner]

quote:I am surprised that you found it nice talking to me at all since I did not buy into your beliefs.  You posted about negatives and received a reply from me you did not like.

Not everyone confuses a debate with an argument.
A difference in opinion is not a personal attack.

There are 10 kinds of people in the world.
Those who understand binary, and those who don't.

[Tisha]

aaagggggghhhhh I am involved in so many posts now about the existence of "negs" and "evil" that I can't remember where I've posted what, and who's read which of my post.  I guess if everyone reads everything I write, you will know where I am coming from, but who's got time for THAT !!!!!

Qball, I wonder why you are surprised that I found it nice to chat with you, because you did not buy into my beliefs or I did not buy into yours?  Was that the purpose of this discussion?  I honestly did not know that!  I honestly did find it nice to chat with you.  Because I do care what you think!  It is sad that you do not care what others believe . . . it makes me wonder why you are engaged in this forum at all, if you do not care about what others think or believe.  You seem so hostile . . . have you ever wondered if other beings on the astral are attacking you because they think you are a Neg?  

EVERYONE, I just had this vision of psychic defense addicts and negative-thinking types in the same Astral Coloseum, doing battle with each other.  Not to say that YOU in particular go there . . .  it was just a flash vision, so I'm writing it down here.  it just makes me wonder if people who believe in negs and focus on them alot kind of hang out together, and their experiences fuel and bolster their reallities.  And then predatory types join in the fray, and battles ensue.  Battles that are very REAL of course.  Absolutely real.

I hope you all didn't think I was trying to be an evangelist . . . I was only trying to express my beliefs, so everyone reading this thread would know where I come from.  After all, GANDALF started this thread, and he DID ask the question!

Tisha

"As Above, So Below"

[seekenergyaz]

It seems to me that Mr. Bruce is saying in his self defense book that he believes in negs as actual beings, but he also seems eager to avoid pushing that belief on others so as not to scare them off from getting the help he feels that he might offer.  Some,  in his view, are intelligent, some not.  They run the gammit.  They vary in nature and intensity of danger, but the term "neg" was coined to describe all such spirit entities that have  negative effects on humans, and that is the common thread of all negs by definition of the guy that as far as I know coined the term.  He does not make a blanket judgement on all negs as being "evil" although he does appear to believe that some are.  I am sure that there are some humans that have a negative effect on those around them, but are not "evil" people.  Heck, we all problably have relatives like that!  Some of us may fit that description ourselves, having come here, in part, to see if we can change it.  Then again, some people may be truly evil too.  Mr. Bruce appears to apply the same sort of logic to the variety of beings of the other dimensions, etc.  

I suppose there is left here some room for subjectivity, but I personally believe that there is little value in a lot of philosophical nitpicking about what constitutes "negative" and "evil."  Most of us will go with our instinct no matter how others try to define them.

seekenergyaz

[Leyla]

The christian idea of "Good vs Evil" is relativly new. It was a relief to me to finally rid myself of the mindset that the world was locked into an eternal battle. So tiresome. Spiritual perfection lies not in the lack of opposing forces, but in the union of them. All the forces in the universe work in balanced pairs: acids and bases, protons and neutrons, from the tiny double helix of DNA swirling inside each living cell; to the polar magnetic forces that keep our entire galaxy spinning and suspended in perfect balance. My definition of evil is "lack of balance."
  As for negs- I have met (and been attacked) by two that were entirely my own creation. And one that was not. I'm not calling him evil. Just annoying. I think they're just like people. Some people are killers and child molesters. Screwed up and mentally out of balance.

[Gandalf]

This is an interesting issue. While RB clearly believes in such things and their effects on humans others believe that negs are nothing more than manifistations of personal fears.
Frank for one has said that he doesnt believe that negs encountred during obe are actually proper entities as such.
I agree with him to some extent. I think that almost all the so called 'negs' that people encounter during obe are actually manifistation of personal fear.
However, does this mean that true negative forces do not exist IN ADDITION to this
II am open to the concept that powerful sentient negative forces exist in addition to this and do effect the world in some form or other.
I believe that negativity is part of creation because the universe must exist in ballance for it to grow. But while positive forces want to keep the ballance equal, negative forces want to tip it - They have been designed this way on purpose.
I believe that the 'eternal struggle' concept is true as it is the only viable way in which the universe and its inhabitants can grow.

Anyway, thats my 2 (Euro) cents for the day!

Douglas