Bad experiences with Martial arts

[Syko Dragon]

It is quite possible that they could have contracted a Neg...But that doesn't mean they have...If they were COMPLETE Opposites of this Nature, then I would be more suspicious...

However, I would have to take a look at each individual Mind-Set beforehand and see if there are any tendencies towards becoming that way in the first place (which were only brought out by the Martial Arts Training)...I would also have to look at the Teacher and School they attend...The Teacher and/or the Environment may be implanting such Negative Attitudes by preying on their/your fears...

I've seen many Martial Arts that Focus TOO Much on the Physical Aspect, and forget the TRUE Aspect of Martial Arts...Martial Arts is a form of Expression of Oneself using the Body through Combative Movements...It is not just some way to "kick butt," but rather a road to Understanding Your Body and Other's Bodies in a deeper sense of a Connection that we are Human, that we are all Connected on a Physical Level through Training IN the Physical Level...

Never forget to Train the Mind in ANY type of Martial Arts...That is why some "Extreme" Martial Art Forms (like government influenced systems or so) can "drive people mad"...Because they have no sense of self...

Since You seem to have picked up on this change, Practice some Sensing to feel if it is Truly a Neg or not...

I Hope this Helped...Good Luck Training...Until we meet again...

[cainam_nazier]

It is possible that a martial arts can change a person in that manner.  However it is possible anything to change a person like thing: school, religion, TV, computers, ect.   I would look more heavily on the how and who.  By that I mean you must look at the teacher and how he/she is teaching.  This has a greater influence than the style itself.

I will admite that I have been changed considerably by under going martial arts training.  However for me it was not so much the school itself or so much what I was taught.  It was the conflict that was created in me.

I am a peacable person.  I avoid, when possible,  physical conflict with others if the intent is to do harm.  But I really enjoy contact sports which is one of the reasons I got into martial arts.  I also got into martial arts for the self control factor, the control of mind over body.  Martial arts pushes this concept to the limits.

But now things are different.  I no longer just avoid physical conflict... I have become afraid of it.  The fear is not over what would happen to me as one might expect.  The fear is what I might do to the other person when the training kicks in.  Would I be able to control the reflex actions when in a hightened emotional state?  Would I want to at that time?  Would I know just how far to take the it?  Would I be able to stop?

Because of what I learned I know that I am fully capable of seriously injuring or even killing another person in melee or unarmed combat.  This in itself bothers me.  The average person believes they know how....fragile the human body can be.  But honestly until some one shows you just what you can do to another person, the average individual doesn't have a clue how easy it is to.....dismantle a person.

[Syko Dragon]

To cainam_nazier:

I Understand where You're coming from...Which is why the Mental Aspects of Martial Arts needs to be emphasized more, in my opinion...Sure, there are schools that incoporate legal ramifications to add an extra fear to NOT hurt someone, but they miss the entire point...

Like I said, once You've Trained long enough with the Right Mind-Set, it no longer becomes a decision of "will I hurt someone or not" but rather "how can I stop this person from hurting anybody, including himself"...

To put it another way...There was some book reference (which I can't remember either one, I'm Sorry) that was basically a list from Worse to Best of the Martial Arts in terms of Morality...Aikido was #1 (the Best) in that it Practices on disabling an Attack while "Protecting the Attacker"...It incoporates a deeper Appreciation and Undestanding of what is possible and what is applicable in a different way...of that we are All Connected...

Think of this, if You Truly Love and want to Protect Your Attaker, there won't be a need to sort out any emotions (which keeping a Level Head during intense situations is, or should be, a constant Training Aspect of WHY we Train)...Think if a child You Love lost control for whatever reason while You're Level Headed, but You didn't want to hurt them...You would have the Confidence and Understanding to disable an attack without hurtint them, so long as You have Trained Correctly...(that's the Best scenario I can think of in terms of a connecting sitation)...

BTW, I use to think the same way You both have...And I still do get excited over Martial Art's Contact Sports...But that is Personal Interest and is usually regulated to prevent serious harm (we would be made to believe so)...

I Hope this Helped...Good Luck Training...Until we meet again...

[cainam_nazier]

Syko Dragon,

I fully agree.  And I have no problems at all when just screwing around with friends, or when need be stepping between them.  But to respond honestly, there have been, given the circumstances and those involved where I truely wanted to cause harm.  This on top of knowing what I could do to the person scared me.  And I questioned, that had it come to it, would I have been able to control the desire to inflict harm?  AT that point in time my thought was not of protecting the others involved, but seriously injuring the cause of the problem.

[Syko Dragon]

To cainam_nazier:

Yes, I used to think the same way...That is more Mental Development than anything else...If anything, that could possibly be Negs pulling You towards Destruction...

I try to let people know how I feel would Help the Best in the long-run...All in all, most people will give tips on getting rid of Negs, but still, for the most part, remain susceptible...That is why I train, to NOT be suscetible...As my older brother had taught me, Train EVERY Aspect of of Yourself and what is going on in Your Life...School, Work, Martial Arts, Basket Weaving, Reading, etc...In that way, You make YOU Stronger and in Control of what You TRULY want and are...

That, to me, is MUCH Greater than what Anybody can tell You, Anybody can Influence You, or Any Neg can Overpower...

I Hope this Helped...Good Luck Training...Until we meet again...

[TruthSeeker]

Dear everyone,

Just a small note: I have been studying martial arts since early childhood. This does however not make me a violent person. This is a fine line we practicioners of martial arts are walking, but with the right values and mind-set it is not a hard thing to do. I myself teach martial arts(a variable of Jeet Kune Do, including pressurepoint control, Chi, a hard mental dicipline and the spirit is of the essence), so I know how certain people get violent or aggressive when taught martial arts. This is not for anyone, and those who are not ready for it will soon begin a journey, the journey Mustardseed's friends have begun. They will show tendencies of violence and lack the self-control needed to be a practicioner of martial arts, this especially counts when reaching a higher level. I doubt Mustardseed's friends have been "exposed" to negs that make them of this attitude(the reason is that the world is filled with persons just like them). However I can not say for sure out of such little information and without having seen them myself.

Mustardseed said:  "I did some Martial arts when I was younger but stopped as I felt it was changing me!!!"
- This is absolutely right. Martial arts does change a person. To a strong person who has the right values and mind-set(having reached beyond the lust to harm other beings), will change to the better both spritually, mentally and physically(depending on the art being studied offcourse). You seem like a person that matches the "criterias", and I suggest that if you still have the will: Re-start and find a style/form that suits you, as this will change your life forever. HOWEVER resolve your fears and feelings you do not wish to have.
In time with a good teacher, you will lose the fears of hurting people, as you will loose the aggressive mind-set and be more compassionate towards all living beings.

One thing you can think of is why do you want to be angry at an attacker anyway? He is doing something to help you and him, making lessons for both of you. After this incarnation your attacker will be faced with his stupidity(as we are all beings of light, and we all will be faced with our stupidity and learn from it to become better beings.) Meet your attacker with love and understanding, teach him a lesson if needed, but be loving and understanding.

With love,

TruthSeeker

[curiousgirl]

i have taken martial arts classes, and i feel that they have had a positive effect on me.  while i've always had kind of an aggressive streak in me, which is why i have always been fascinated with martial arts, i also wanted to take it because i wanted to be able to defend myself, being such a tiny, petite, whimpy female.  my teacher was awesome... he helped to make everyone in the class feel good, and didn't make anyone do anything they weren't comfortable doing.  he tried to teach us each techniques for our individual needs (in other words, our physical sizes, capabilities, mentalities).  the classes gave me a whole new confidence in myself... i felt physically stronger and healthier, and i moved with more grace and confidence than ever before.  i did not feel any more inclined toward violence than i was before... i still hated to make any real hard, physical contact, and he did not force me to.  i was more interested in perfecting the techniques and movements than really using it to bash someone's skull in.  and he even stated to us, that everyone has their own reasons for doing martial arts.. for physical fitness, to explore the philosophical side of it, to gain better control of their bodies, or, unfortunately, to become a badass, etc.  

so while there were some very mild-mannered people in the classes who were there for not violent reasons, (there was even a vegan in there, who was quite against violence) i noticed something.  the guys (i was the only female in there most of the time, besides one rather brutal, aggressive lady) that were there to become badasses had a way of infecting everyone with their aggressiveness.  when it was sparring time, even though my instructor would say "light contact only", it would quickly turn into a pounding match... they'd pound on the mild-mannered people, and in turn, it would tinkle off the mild people and make them pound back.  this also happened to me when i was paired up with the aggressive lady (usually if i was paired up with the guys, they were so afraid of hurting me, that they didn't even make a decent sparring partner!).  the aggressive feelings are infectious.  all i wanted was to work on perfecting my technique and form and this chick wanted to pound me into hamburger!  her screwing up my plan and pounding on me just made me angry, and i ended up pounding on her.  but when i would be paired up with a decent partner, who had the same goals as i, or just knew how to give the right amount of energy, whether it was practicing our moves, or sparring, things were so blissful!  it was a pleasure to work with them, and not a violent thought ran through my head, not an urge!  

another thing is, a lot of people let their newfound skills get to their heads.  as long as you don't let it get to your head, and stay humble about your abilities (which i admit, can be hard to do at times[:I]), you should be ok.  and while yes, the moves were created for violence, it does not mean that they must be used as such.  i took a filipino weapons martial art class, and while all the moves were about slashing, gashing, etc., they also had a wonderful grace and beauty to them like dancing, when you didn't think about the weapon as being a weapon.  you don't have to make it for slashing and gashing... just the pleasure of the movements.  supposedly tai chi, which lots of people use its moves for getting into a nice, peaceful state, is an actual martial art that if you train right, can be used for fighting.

so what i'm trying to say is i don't think martial arts is a negative thing AT ALL.  i think that it is the atmosphere in which you practice it, and what your goals are, and how you view martial arts.  and maybe at times what martial art you decide to study.  some are very geared towards making maximum damage, and competition, which makes for an aggressive class atmosphere (like thai boxing).  others have an emphasis on technique and finesse, and it doesn't really matter whether you use it or not... as long as you enjoy the learning, and perfecting yourself.  i was fortunate enough to pick the right kind of classes, with the right teachers.  i didn't have an increase in aggression (at least as long as i didn't have some psychochick pounding on me) and one great benefit is that you'll be more physically fit and able to defend yourself if need be.  

we ALL get into situations where we have feelings like we'd like to hurt someone, a very intense, angry situation... whether we've had martial arts training or not.  everyone gets hotheaded at times and would like to smash some jerk's teeth in, whether we have the skills or strength to do it or not.  so, i don't think the amount of skill you have to hurt someone is what is to be worried about... it is the amount of control you have over your own anger.  in fact, perhaps someone with martial arts training would have more ability to avoid seriously hurting someone, than someone who doesn't have the training.  a martial artist has the reaction, the ability to see what's going on and gauge distance, and the control over their own body and the knowledge of what should and shouldn't be done, so that they can bring the fight to a safer end.  someone who doesn't know what they are doing, and are slashing, swinging, kicking wildly could accidently do something serious.  but i'm no expert.. i've been in martial arts only a few years, and have to get back into it (dropped out 'cause of money reasons).

[breeze]

FEAR is one of the key motives in many peoples lives. Many people are looking for safety and protection just everywhere. They are training themselves in Martial arts or they are accumulating weapons to protect their homes or they are saving money for their pensions, but the more they are doing these things the more is at stake. So the more they are doing these things the less they feel secure. The only solutions seems to be to try things even harder.

Many people are not aware of their emotions and their motives. They are not aware of the fact that they are fearful and that their behaviour is partly driven by fear and a craving for safety. At some point, an increase in insecurity can lead them to a condition in which they no longer want to be exposed to an alien and an insecure looking environment. They want to have an influence on things, an influence on their environment. When these people get in touch with Martial arts they are not going the way of a budoka. They are not practising to become a warrior who combats with his own ego. These people are practising Martial arts to make themselves stronger, to make their ego stronger and to protect it. Unfortunately a strong ego is out of touch with the world, but on the contrary is convinced that it knows exactly how reality should look like. If things are not according to its views it wants to shape them, shape its surroundings and its environment according to its view and expectations by forcing its will on the world.
However, these people notice that ever increasing forces in their surroundings are counteracting their efforts to influence the world, a world which seems so alienated and separated from them. This increases their fear.
Cainam naziers wrote 'the average individual doesn't have a clue how easy it is' to dismantle a person.' These people who train Martial arts because they are driven by fear, are beginning to realise how fragile the human body can be, how fragile they are. They just want to protect themselves, but the more force they use the stronger the forces are getting who are working against them. Thus, they are getting fearful and aggressive and they are getting more and more convinced that by using some more tricks, moves and techniques they are finally getting things as they want them to be. Temporarily they might even think that they have created safety. But shortly their subliminal fears are getting stronger again, moving them to act and fight again. It seems they are all fighting the hydra. Every head they cut of is instantly replaced by two new heads.
Have you ever wondered why a hero character is facing an even stronger opponent as soon as he has dismantled or killed the current one?

To judge these people or even condemn them as negs would be unfair. They are still humans, they are still convinced as any other person that what they do is right and good for them, good for the world. They just interpret the world totally different than a person who is in touch with his emotions with his body and his mind processes. According to that, they come to different conclusions about reality and all the events they witness.

To put it in a nutshell. Practising Martial arts does neither necessarily lead to an aggressive state of mind nor does it automatically increase anyone's awareness. It is your choice what effect it will have.

If you are afraid that Martial arts will affect you adversely, just use some other technique that trains your mind and body as well as your energy body. Just use a technique like Yoga, Qi-Gong, Tai-Chi, Falun Gong, NEW or even Psychocalisthenics Exercises as in Patrick Holfords book '6 weeks to super health'. Just choose whatever suits you best. The funny thing is that at some point you might not even need a specific classical technique anymore. If you have increased your awareness to some point and are also increasingly trusting your sub consciousness, you can let your sub consciousness teach you your own technique.

Love and light,
breeze



Fisher information: 'The 'request' for data creates the law that, ultimately, gives rise to the data. The observer creates his or her local reality.'

[SukiHyoujin]

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[Carbon]

Martial Arts don't just change a person, the person himself changes, we can't say "look what tae kwon do did to me" because tae kwon do is not a person, we can't blame it, if a person becomes more violent after martial arts training, it is because they CHOOSE to be more violent. Also, if there is no avoiding a fight outside martial arts training, then you'd better hope the training kicks in, because the goal of a fight is to injusre your opponent so they can't attack you, and if your training is the way to do that, then you'd better start kicking because if you don't, they won't hesitate to hit you.

ok... that was awkward.. hi, first post

[Syke]

Hi everyone...

I believe that martial arts itself doesnt change a person (as carbon said), but it is used as a tool to develop urself the way you want.
if you go into any martial arts with the intention to learn it just so you can go around hurting people then that personal trait will just come out stronger with training.
if you go into it wanting to experience the culture and spirituality then that will come out strong... ect.
so it all really depends on your own mind... even if you dont realise ur a violent person the martial arts will bring that out in you. but it will only bring out what is already there, not change it.
if you dont like what you see then YOU can change it to suit ur likings.

You are your own, not what others make

-Syke

[Mustardseed]

I did some Martial arts when I was younger but stopped as I felt it was changing me!!!. I started like so many in an attempt to be able to protect myself...in reality driven by FEAR, as I think most do. However over the time I found I became harder and more proud and unfeeling. It was as if the ability to hurt someone appealed to my lower nature. I never did get very experienced, but had a lot of friends who kept up their interest. Most have developed a very strong obsession with violence in different forms, weapons etc especially knives swords etc and generally speaking have become very agressive, but in a very overbearing way.It is not that they run around hurting folks, but they seem to be in a very closed universe where their last resort is to use violence, or agression to solve problems, rather that reason. The wish I had and I assume they also once might have had, to just become more confident have ,  it seems , turned to pride. Is it possible that they have picked up neg attachments and subsequent influences from this interest and hobby.