Title: Negs over water
Post by: Robert Bruce on February 18, 2002, 03:03:16
Post by: Robert Bruce on February 18, 2002, 03:03:16
G'day!
Good leading questions....
This is a bit theoretical, but I can't help wondering about some aspects of the theory that negs can't cross water...
1. Does the barrier have to be very close, or can the water be several levels down? ie. if I were on the 3rd floor of a building, would the water mains below street level protect me?
This is uncertain, but so far my field experiments (the only way to travel) show that any free roaming (within the real time zone) neg wanting to get at you must first find a way to get across the water mains below you. However, keep in mind that while some negs become trapped behind running water pipes (earthbound spirits and etc that do not have the knowledge to overcome these barriers), higher order
negs usually only manifest 'near' their target. They move from lower astral realms directly to the target, in much the same way as instant OBE travel works. This works 'around' the running water problem.
Negs can also travel over running water by hitchhiking with susceptible humans, piggy backing over it and using their temporary hosts as shields.
Strongers types of neg, like demons, can cross running water, but tests show they will not do this lightly. It drains them of energy and could be said to burn them.
All this leads me to think that any neg manifesting close enough to the physical dimension to affect humans becomes bound to the surface of the earth, and takes on 2 dimensional properties.
2. Does the general theory mean that no neg can travel between countries that are separated by water? ie. New Zealand to Australia (God forbid!)
In post modern times, yes, this would have formed a formidible barrier to lower order neg spirits. This is much like how earthbound spirits become bound to particular houses and castles.
3. Why couldn't a neg travel "over" or "under" a barrier?
This is not possible for negs. For all we know about spirits, the very idea of spirits, one would think that they could float around wherever they like. But my work shows that they have serious limitations, and that these limitations can be used against them. Btw, I have asked many channelled spirits about this, via their respective mediums, and totally dumbfounded them. But my experiments have proven running water to be a very important factor indeed.
4. Do other "good" or even "amoral" entities suffer the same weakness? ie. elementals, nature spirits, etc.
Sorry, I have no information on this. All my experiments have been with attacking neg entities. But this is a very good point and one I definitely plan to investigate further. This may be why, as is well known, metaphysical practices work much better when done out in the country away from cities...away from water mains. This may be a closely guarded secret, who knows, that 'any' spirit manifesting in real time is affected by running water.
Take care, Robert.
Good leading questions....
This is a bit theoretical, but I can't help wondering about some aspects of the theory that negs can't cross water...
1. Does the barrier have to be very close, or can the water be several levels down? ie. if I were on the 3rd floor of a building, would the water mains below street level protect me?
This is uncertain, but so far my field experiments (the only way to travel) show that any free roaming (within the real time zone) neg wanting to get at you must first find a way to get across the water mains below you. However, keep in mind that while some negs become trapped behind running water pipes (earthbound spirits and etc that do not have the knowledge to overcome these barriers), higher order
negs usually only manifest 'near' their target. They move from lower astral realms directly to the target, in much the same way as instant OBE travel works. This works 'around' the running water problem.
Negs can also travel over running water by hitchhiking with susceptible humans, piggy backing over it and using their temporary hosts as shields.
Strongers types of neg, like demons, can cross running water, but tests show they will not do this lightly. It drains them of energy and could be said to burn them.
All this leads me to think that any neg manifesting close enough to the physical dimension to affect humans becomes bound to the surface of the earth, and takes on 2 dimensional properties.
2. Does the general theory mean that no neg can travel between countries that are separated by water? ie. New Zealand to Australia (God forbid!)
In post modern times, yes, this would have formed a formidible barrier to lower order neg spirits. This is much like how earthbound spirits become bound to particular houses and castles.
3. Why couldn't a neg travel "over" or "under" a barrier?
This is not possible for negs. For all we know about spirits, the very idea of spirits, one would think that they could float around wherever they like. But my work shows that they have serious limitations, and that these limitations can be used against them. Btw, I have asked many channelled spirits about this, via their respective mediums, and totally dumbfounded them. But my experiments have proven running water to be a very important factor indeed.
4. Do other "good" or even "amoral" entities suffer the same weakness? ie. elementals, nature spirits, etc.
Sorry, I have no information on this. All my experiments have been with attacking neg entities. But this is a very good point and one I definitely plan to investigate further. This may be why, as is well known, metaphysical practices work much better when done out in the country away from cities...away from water mains. This may be a closely guarded secret, who knows, that 'any' spirit manifesting in real time is affected by running water.
Take care, Robert.
Title: Negs over water
Post by: Murphy on February 21, 2002, 18:52:35
Post by: Murphy on February 21, 2002, 18:52:35
What about the various noxious veins that are supposed to be under the earth in various spots, and which cause traffic accidents, etc.?
Is there any connection between those, and between the idea of running water harming negs?
I wonder if negs would be harmed by noxious veins.
Bad Luck Murphy
Is there any connection between those, and between the idea of running water harming negs?
I wonder if negs would be harmed by noxious veins.
Bad Luck Murphy
Title: Negs over water
Post by: Murphy on February 24, 2002, 17:44:36
Post by: Murphy on February 24, 2002, 17:44:36
Fastwalker, you've got a point.
I read this non-fiction paperback about some guys who were fooling around with a Ouija board on Fire Island (Long Island).
The author wrote that while he wasn't as susceptible as his "wimpy" friend to becoming possessed, nevertheless, there were entities which tried to harm him. He described how he was driving along the East River (I believe) when some force at the East River tried to get the car to swerve; also once when he was in the water, he felt himself being pulled under by a powerful entity.
I also wonder about the idea of noxious veins that supposedly are responsible for many traffic accidents & how this ties into the overall picture.
Bad Luck Murphy
I read this non-fiction paperback about some guys who were fooling around with a Ouija board on Fire Island (Long Island).
The author wrote that while he wasn't as susceptible as his "wimpy" friend to becoming possessed, nevertheless, there were entities which tried to harm him. He described how he was driving along the East River (I believe) when some force at the East River tried to get the car to swerve; also once when he was in the water, he felt himself being pulled under by a powerful entity.
I also wonder about the idea of noxious veins that supposedly are responsible for many traffic accidents & how this ties into the overall picture.
Bad Luck Murphy
Title: Negs over water
Post by: Violet on February 24, 2002, 20:05:28
Post by: Violet on February 24, 2002, 20:05:28
Dear Fastwalker,
My cousin has done a great deal of study on Ginns. I do not know if you have ever read the Koran but there is one breif section on them there. The Muslims really believe in both good and evil Ginns. My cousin visited a Master of the Ginns because she believed she had a curse placed upon her. She was in Pakistan at the time. Not only did the Master of the Ginns tell her who placed the curse on her, how they were executing the curse but he also gave her her own personal Ginn to protect her. By the way the curse was executed by placing negative energy in the sugar crystals that were being put in her tea which contains water! Hard to believe. But her serious health problem suddenly went away and interestingly enough was reflected back on the person who placed it upon her. Anyways to the point....this Master of the Ginns said that Ginns could not easily travel over water. Hmmm! So it seems to be a common belief.
I wonder though if it is the water itself or the positive energy that running water creates. I always find that rapids, water falls etc. provide a real lift. The faster the water moves the more it energizes.
Perhaps the speed of the water and degree of water movement (waves) is a factor? Perhaps with the daming of rivers reducing them to slow moving sludge ponds is not so good on the non-physical as well as on the physical level. Hard to say.
Light and Love to the One and All,
Violet
My cousin has done a great deal of study on Ginns. I do not know if you have ever read the Koran but there is one breif section on them there. The Muslims really believe in both good and evil Ginns. My cousin visited a Master of the Ginns because she believed she had a curse placed upon her. She was in Pakistan at the time. Not only did the Master of the Ginns tell her who placed the curse on her, how they were executing the curse but he also gave her her own personal Ginn to protect her. By the way the curse was executed by placing negative energy in the sugar crystals that were being put in her tea which contains water! Hard to believe. But her serious health problem suddenly went away and interestingly enough was reflected back on the person who placed it upon her. Anyways to the point....this Master of the Ginns said that Ginns could not easily travel over water. Hmmm! So it seems to be a common belief.
I wonder though if it is the water itself or the positive energy that running water creates. I always find that rapids, water falls etc. provide a real lift. The faster the water moves the more it energizes.
Perhaps the speed of the water and degree of water movement (waves) is a factor? Perhaps with the daming of rivers reducing them to slow moving sludge ponds is not so good on the non-physical as well as on the physical level. Hard to say.
Light and Love to the One and All,
Violet
Title: Negs over water
Post by: Pete on February 24, 2002, 20:41:38
Post by: Pete on February 24, 2002, 20:41:38
I was thinking the same thing Violet. The movement of water: shower, river, ocean, whatever, gives off negative ions, which are very beneficial to our health (positive ions are less healthy, at least a surplus of them). That's one reason why a shower feels refreshing or a walk on a sunny beach with the surf pounding (giving off negative ions - not to mention the fact that white sand beaches are made up partially of small crystal fragments). A lot of air cleaners have negative ion generators in them, especially commercial ones, such as in bars where there smoke gets real thick. I use one at home and it is marvelous. Anyway, perhaps negs are repelled by the negative ions all moving water gives off/produces? Perhaps an experiment could be done with running an air cleaner producing negative ions in the vicinity of negs. (I can't do the experiment. As far as I can tell there are no negs around me).
Pete
Pete
Title: Negs over water
Post by: Robert Bruce on February 24, 2002, 21:12:27
Post by: Robert Bruce on February 24, 2002, 21:12:27
G'day folks!
All good points, and points I have pondered for a long time.
The quality of underground streams varies, as does the energy they generate. I think dowsing can be used to tell these apart.
This may also apply to geopathic stress points and other such underground forces.
I do not know anywhere near enough to tell how each type will affect negs. My book would have been delayed several years had I attempted to gather such information. And keep in mind that I would have to run field tests, which means I would need active neg attacks to test them with, making everything doubly difficult.
Still water, and slow moving water, does not seem to have a great effect on negs. Keep in mind that such places are likely to host a great many nature spirits and elementals (water spirits and etc). And these types of spirits can sometimes be nasty.
My experiments have by large been with negs in populated areas. The majority of such negs have great problems crossing running water.
The volume and speed of running water are certainly important factors. This is why, if crossing a garden hose fails, crossing a large water main will usually do the trick and break the neg attack.
Neg attacks are usually broken instantly by crossing running water.
However, some types of attacks, possibly involving 'attached' negs, take more. In this case, I advise standing over running water for several minutes (coil a garden hose and stand among coils), and that white light be imagined as flowing into the head, and black fluid leaking from the feet. This is 'very' effective against strong attacks, especially possession attacks and heavy influence attacks. I have proven this beyond doubt in many field situations, involving myself and others I have been trying to help.
The running water countermeasures are in their infancy. These work in most cases, even though we do not fully understand why.
The ion generation of running water may indeed be a significant factor.
There are historical links to running water countermeasures.
Folklore says that witches and demons and etc cannot cross running water.
Druid law, thousands of years old, shows some knowledge of running water and its effect on negs. For example, it was law that a doctor's house 'must' be build over a stream of clean running water. They used a kind of bridge to do this.
My book, PPSD, gives many firsthand examples, and my thoughts on running water countermeasures and how they work. But as said, I do not know the whole story. I do, however, know enough to use this and encourage others to use this countermeasure. Its extremely effective against the vast majority of negs one is likely to encounter in populated areas, like towns and etc.
Take care, Robert.
All good points, and points I have pondered for a long time.
The quality of underground streams varies, as does the energy they generate. I think dowsing can be used to tell these apart.
This may also apply to geopathic stress points and other such underground forces.
I do not know anywhere near enough to tell how each type will affect negs. My book would have been delayed several years had I attempted to gather such information. And keep in mind that I would have to run field tests, which means I would need active neg attacks to test them with, making everything doubly difficult.
Still water, and slow moving water, does not seem to have a great effect on negs. Keep in mind that such places are likely to host a great many nature spirits and elementals (water spirits and etc). And these types of spirits can sometimes be nasty.
My experiments have by large been with negs in populated areas. The majority of such negs have great problems crossing running water.
The volume and speed of running water are certainly important factors. This is why, if crossing a garden hose fails, crossing a large water main will usually do the trick and break the neg attack.
Neg attacks are usually broken instantly by crossing running water.
However, some types of attacks, possibly involving 'attached' negs, take more. In this case, I advise standing over running water for several minutes (coil a garden hose and stand among coils), and that white light be imagined as flowing into the head, and black fluid leaking from the feet. This is 'very' effective against strong attacks, especially possession attacks and heavy influence attacks. I have proven this beyond doubt in many field situations, involving myself and others I have been trying to help.
The running water countermeasures are in their infancy. These work in most cases, even though we do not fully understand why.
The ion generation of running water may indeed be a significant factor.
There are historical links to running water countermeasures.
Folklore says that witches and demons and etc cannot cross running water.
Druid law, thousands of years old, shows some knowledge of running water and its effect on negs. For example, it was law that a doctor's house 'must' be build over a stream of clean running water. They used a kind of bridge to do this.
My book, PPSD, gives many firsthand examples, and my thoughts on running water countermeasures and how they work. But as said, I do not know the whole story. I do, however, know enough to use this and encourage others to use this countermeasure. Its extremely effective against the vast majority of negs one is likely to encounter in populated areas, like towns and etc.
Take care, Robert.
Title: Negs over water
Post by: Murphy on February 26, 2002, 21:22:22
Post by: Murphy on February 26, 2002, 21:22:22
Pete, I have found Dead Sea black mud to feel more healing to my muscles than any mineral baths.
And you better believe, that mud was not moving
let alone water!
Bad Luck Murphy
And you better believe, that mud was not moving
let alone water!Bad Luck Murphy
Title: Negs over water
Post by: Murphy on February 26, 2002, 21:33:58
Post by: Murphy on February 26, 2002, 21:33:58
quote:
The volume and speed of running water are certainly important factors. This is why, if crossing a garden hose fails, crossing a large water main will usually do the trick and break the neg attack.
A couple of years ago, I was in a boat crossing under Niagara Falls, with the water really spraying me. Everyone was given these weird blue plastic hooded protective "rain-gear"
But yet my jinxacle-patterned life continues to this day.
Bad Luck Murphy
Title: Negs over water
Post by: Winged_Wolf on February 27, 2002, 00:47:25
Post by: Winged_Wolf on February 27, 2002, 00:47:25
Hmmm....here's a theory to toss out on this. I've never personally noticed any problem with spirits crossing water, but I'll take your word for it.
Perhaps some weak entities have problems with water because of the ionization effect. This is the same reason burning sage may work, or salt water asperging.
Conversely, some entities will be able to make use of the energy effects created by water, and use it as a power source.
I would think that entities affected by running water would also have trouble with live electrical wires and functioning appliances. There's an enormous amount of electrostatic interference in a city. I can't think of any reason why an entity's personality or motives would have any effect on this (ie, "good" or "bad"). I've always had a problem with the whole "positive" and "negative", thing though--IMO, as above, so below--and vice versa. They're out to survive, just as material living things are, and that can be good, bad, and everything in between. Whether something is good or bad just depends on our opinion of it--if it's attacking us or hindering us, we call it bad. Cows would probably think humans were demonic, if they had that capability.
Most of the entities I've encountered are neutral in this respect--meaning that, even if they do harm, they don't do so out of malice, but out of need to survive.
Which is not to say we shouldn't take them out when we encounter them.
--Winged Wolf
Perhaps some weak entities have problems with water because of the ionization effect. This is the same reason burning sage may work, or salt water asperging.
Conversely, some entities will be able to make use of the energy effects created by water, and use it as a power source.
I would think that entities affected by running water would also have trouble with live electrical wires and functioning appliances. There's an enormous amount of electrostatic interference in a city. I can't think of any reason why an entity's personality or motives would have any effect on this (ie, "good" or "bad"). I've always had a problem with the whole "positive" and "negative", thing though--IMO, as above, so below--and vice versa. They're out to survive, just as material living things are, and that can be good, bad, and everything in between. Whether something is good or bad just depends on our opinion of it--if it's attacking us or hindering us, we call it bad. Cows would probably think humans were demonic, if they had that capability.
Most of the entities I've encountered are neutral in this respect--meaning that, even if they do harm, they don't do so out of malice, but out of need to survive.
Which is not to say we shouldn't take them out when we encounter them.
--Winged Wolf
Title: Negs over water
Post by: Murphy on February 28, 2002, 19:27:23
Post by: Murphy on February 28, 2002, 19:27:23
Other questions (besides fastwalkers' question about jacuzzi's) are these:
What about rain? thunderstorms? etc.
What about storms at sea which have caused shipwrecks?
What about noxious veins underground at spots where many car accidents were known to have occurred?
Bad Luck Murphy
What about rain? thunderstorms? etc.
What about storms at sea which have caused shipwrecks?
What about noxious veins underground at spots where many car accidents were known to have occurred?
Bad Luck Murphy
Title: Negs over water
Post by: Robert Bruce on February 28, 2002, 22:31:28
Post by: Robert Bruce on February 28, 2002, 22:31:28
G'day Folks!
Winged Wolf makes some good points. Yes, the vast majority of entities that interact with humans are neither good nor bad, but neutral and just trying to survive. And yes, cows could consider us demonic, re we milk them all their lives and then eat them. Many entities do the same, milking energy all a person's life, then feasting on their decaying energies after they die.
A few people have mentioned being exposed to running water, storms and etc, and still having bad luck and entity problems. Keep firmly in mind that this kind of running water exposure will not remove firmly 'attached' entities, or those who have gained temporary 'hitchhiking' or 'overshadowing' status.
Some entities become stuck on islands and in houses, because they have not worked out the running water factor and how to overcome it.
Invoking spirits, say with a Ouija board (note that this means 'yes yes', re Oui is French for yes and Ja is German for yes) will also not be greatly affected if done on an island. This is because most invoked entities come from dimensionally further afield and manifest closer to the physical universe using the energy provided by the people doing the invoking. Note that this type of uncontrolled invocation is very dangerous, unless one is familiar with magickal practices of binding entities and protecting ones self, etc.
When an entity is capable of attacking a person, they manifest fairly close to real time, to the physical dimension. In this state, they take on 2 dimensional properties (like a shadow) and are generally bound to the surface of the earth. This is when they are at their most dangerous, as they can then affect humans and etc. An unattached entity in this state has great difficulty crossing running water. Field tests have shown that stronger entities, like demons, can cross running water if pushed, but they will not do this lightly as it can be said to burn them and drain them of energy.
But even the lowliest of demons are very strong, having a stronger level of consciousness than any human, albeit darkly so. Going mind to mind with any demon is thus a no win situation. But as the vast majority of common troublesome negs are lesser beings than demons, and thus have even more difficulty crossing running water, the running water method is effective defense in the majority of cases and will break attacks by unattached negs instantly.
Stronger negs, even low demons, can also be drained of energy and forced to de-manifest and break off attack by prolonged exposure to a significant quantity of running water. This will not solve the root of such a problem, but it does give 'something' to fight back with, and provides temporary 'release' during which strength can be gained and help sought, etc.
Take care, Robert.
Winged Wolf makes some good points. Yes, the vast majority of entities that interact with humans are neither good nor bad, but neutral and just trying to survive. And yes, cows could consider us demonic, re we milk them all their lives and then eat them. Many entities do the same, milking energy all a person's life, then feasting on their decaying energies after they die.
A few people have mentioned being exposed to running water, storms and etc, and still having bad luck and entity problems. Keep firmly in mind that this kind of running water exposure will not remove firmly 'attached' entities, or those who have gained temporary 'hitchhiking' or 'overshadowing' status.
Some entities become stuck on islands and in houses, because they have not worked out the running water factor and how to overcome it.
Invoking spirits, say with a Ouija board (note that this means 'yes yes', re Oui is French for yes and Ja is German for yes) will also not be greatly affected if done on an island. This is because most invoked entities come from dimensionally further afield and manifest closer to the physical universe using the energy provided by the people doing the invoking. Note that this type of uncontrolled invocation is very dangerous, unless one is familiar with magickal practices of binding entities and protecting ones self, etc.
When an entity is capable of attacking a person, they manifest fairly close to real time, to the physical dimension. In this state, they take on 2 dimensional properties (like a shadow) and are generally bound to the surface of the earth. This is when they are at their most dangerous, as they can then affect humans and etc. An unattached entity in this state has great difficulty crossing running water. Field tests have shown that stronger entities, like demons, can cross running water if pushed, but they will not do this lightly as it can be said to burn them and drain them of energy.
But even the lowliest of demons are very strong, having a stronger level of consciousness than any human, albeit darkly so. Going mind to mind with any demon is thus a no win situation. But as the vast majority of common troublesome negs are lesser beings than demons, and thus have even more difficulty crossing running water, the running water method is effective defense in the majority of cases and will break attacks by unattached negs instantly.
Stronger negs, even low demons, can also be drained of energy and forced to de-manifest and break off attack by prolonged exposure to a significant quantity of running water. This will not solve the root of such a problem, but it does give 'something' to fight back with, and provides temporary 'release' during which strength can be gained and help sought, etc.
Take care, Robert.
Title: Negs over water
Post by: Winged_Wolf on March 02, 2002, 01:08:58
Post by: Winged_Wolf on March 02, 2002, 01:08:58
One of the problems I've had over time is that different people may use different names for the same entity--or worse, the same names for different entities. I have an interest in classifying these things (I've even got a website up on it, but it's in pieces due to loss of graphics when Crosswinds crashed during the wtc attack...it's at http://www.angelfire.com/realm2/wingedwolf/Parazoology/index.html if anyone's curious).
So, I've had the following entities called "demons"--
Small critters that attach themselves to a person and influence their mood in a negative way.
"Black shadows"--human-sized entities which appear as black auras, sometimes with red eyes.
Just about anything invoked and bound in a sorcerous ritual that has a less than conscientious personality.
So, what is a demon? The ones I've encountered which were called demons seem to be made of life/faith energy mix....but so are angels and fae spirits. The personality seems the only real difference there. Insofar as that goes, they come in all shapes and sizes, and all power levels from wimpy to "pray for a nuclear strike".
Anyone have any insights or suggestions on this? I don't think anyone has ever taken on the task of classifying spirit entities and gotten anywhere useful with it.
--Winged Wolf
So, I've had the following entities called "demons"--
Small critters that attach themselves to a person and influence their mood in a negative way.
"Black shadows"--human-sized entities which appear as black auras, sometimes with red eyes.
Just about anything invoked and bound in a sorcerous ritual that has a less than conscientious personality.
So, what is a demon? The ones I've encountered which were called demons seem to be made of life/faith energy mix....but so are angels and fae spirits. The personality seems the only real difference there. Insofar as that goes, they come in all shapes and sizes, and all power levels from wimpy to "pray for a nuclear strike".
Anyone have any insights or suggestions on this? I don't think anyone has ever taken on the task of classifying spirit entities and gotten anywhere useful with it.
--Winged Wolf
Title: Negs over water
Post by: Robert Bruce on March 03, 2002, 01:31:40
Post by: Robert Bruce on March 03, 2002, 01:31:40
G'day WW!
Parazoology -- I love the new term.
You should think of registering the www.parazoology.com doman:)
There are quite literally millions of texts on demonology and witchcraft. The Lemegeton is available online somewhere, I think, in pdf format. There are many compendiums, like goetica (Goetica is part of the 5 book Lemegeton set), but I think a modern one would be great. But to be useful, the person who puts it together should seek out information from all areas.
The small weak things you class as demons are not demons, but some form of low astral wildlife, that may include thought forms and etc. But people seem to call 'anything' that bothers them in a negative way as a devil or demon, even though this is technically inaccurate. I generally use the simple term of neg in my new book, to help avoid this confusion, although I do deal with demons and incubus and some more well known neg types more specifically.
The lowest form of demon is the Incubus demon (incubus and succubus are one and the same), which feeds on sexual energy and perverts and corrupts sexually, etc. But these are not weak entities by any means.
A human, no matter how strong their mind, simply cannot go mind to mind with the lowest demon. It is a totally no win situation, much like walking into a major hurricane. Demons have the same level of consciousness energy as do angels, albeit darkly so. I have experienced mind to mind contact with demons many times, and know many high level magickal practitioners who have also had the misfortune to do this, so this comes from personal experience and experimentation and not just theory.
The above is why such high levels of development, training and good magickal techniques, are necessary to deal with demons
Demons, basically, possess, hinder and torment, and inflict victims with spiritual pollution and physical disease.
Take care, Robert.
Parazoology -- I love the new term.
You should think of registering the www.parazoology.com doman:)
There are quite literally millions of texts on demonology and witchcraft. The Lemegeton is available online somewhere, I think, in pdf format. There are many compendiums, like goetica (Goetica is part of the 5 book Lemegeton set), but I think a modern one would be great. But to be useful, the person who puts it together should seek out information from all areas.
The small weak things you class as demons are not demons, but some form of low astral wildlife, that may include thought forms and etc. But people seem to call 'anything' that bothers them in a negative way as a devil or demon, even though this is technically inaccurate. I generally use the simple term of neg in my new book, to help avoid this confusion, although I do deal with demons and incubus and some more well known neg types more specifically.
The lowest form of demon is the Incubus demon (incubus and succubus are one and the same), which feeds on sexual energy and perverts and corrupts sexually, etc. But these are not weak entities by any means.
A human, no matter how strong their mind, simply cannot go mind to mind with the lowest demon. It is a totally no win situation, much like walking into a major hurricane. Demons have the same level of consciousness energy as do angels, albeit darkly so. I have experienced mind to mind contact with demons many times, and know many high level magickal practitioners who have also had the misfortune to do this, so this comes from personal experience and experimentation and not just theory.
The above is why such high levels of development, training and good magickal techniques, are necessary to deal with demons
Demons, basically, possess, hinder and torment, and inflict victims with spiritual pollution and physical disease.
Take care, Robert.
Title: Negs over water
Post by: Two Bears on March 03, 2002, 14:05:27
Post by: Two Bears on March 03, 2002, 14:05:27
=
The small weak things you class as demons are not demons, but some form of low astral wildlife, that may include thought forms and etc. But people seem to call 'anything' that bothers them in a negative way as a devil or demon, even though this is technically inaccurate.
=
Hello Robert; my brother.
I could NOT agree more. Hence my dislike of using labels. One of the labels I dispise is "evil". About the stongest label I use is "negative".
=
A human, no matter how strong their mind, simply cannot go mind to mind with the lowest demon. It is a totally no win situation, much like walking into a major hurricane. Demons have the same level of
=
I will have to disagree here.
Going up against some of the things without tools; is not a good career move, and is not recommended; but some of use can when the need arrises.
Two Bears
Aloha nui loa
Received the title "master" 8 times and still trying to master myself.
The small weak things you class as demons are not demons, but some form of low astral wildlife, that may include thought forms and etc. But people seem to call 'anything' that bothers them in a negative way as a devil or demon, even though this is technically inaccurate.
=
Hello Robert; my brother.
I could NOT agree more. Hence my dislike of using labels. One of the labels I dispise is "evil". About the stongest label I use is "negative".
=
A human, no matter how strong their mind, simply cannot go mind to mind with the lowest demon. It is a totally no win situation, much like walking into a major hurricane. Demons have the same level of
=
I will have to disagree here.
Going up against some of the things without tools; is not a good career move, and is not recommended; but some of use can when the need arrises.
Two Bears
Aloha nui loa
Received the title "master" 8 times and still trying to master myself.
Title: Negs over water
Post by: Robert Bruce on March 04, 2002, 00:14:02
Post by: Robert Bruce on March 04, 2002, 00:14:02
G'day!
Two Bears, you are of course free to believe as you choose, but I feel I must ask on what evidence you base your statement: that a normal, unaided, human mind, or even a trained mind, can win in a direct mind to mind conflict with a true demon of any rank?
True demons, like true angels, have vastly stronger levels of consciousness energy than any human. Because of this, they naturally have incredibly strong hypnotic powers, with which to reach out and affect or control or possess other minds. They are also ancient, sometimes beyond belief, so have vast experience to call upon.
However, it is possible to survive such an onslaught for a short time, say during a possession attack, but only because it usually takes a little time for a demon to penetrate a strong human mind. But once this is done then its a no win situation, without some form of outside intervention. An untrained mind in this situation, however, has virtually no defense whatsoever against such an attack, especially if the victim is naturally sensitive and thus has weaker natural shielding.
The only exception to the above is where a person is manifesting their higher self, or where an angelic mind moves in and intervenes. But this is not a simple human mind to demon mind direct confrontation, re a vastly superior level of consciousness is aiding and protecting the human mind. This may be a trifle pedantic, but I think its good to be clear on these matters.
Take care, Robert.
=============
A human, no matter how strong their mind, simply cannot go mind to mind with the lowest demon. It is a totally no win situation, much like walking into a major hurricane. Demons have the same level of
=
I will have to disagree here.
Going up against some of the things without tools; is not a good career move, and is not recommended; but some of use can when the need arrises.
Two Bears
Edited by - Robert Bruce on 04 March 2002 07:29:31
Two Bears, you are of course free to believe as you choose, but I feel I must ask on what evidence you base your statement: that a normal, unaided, human mind, or even a trained mind, can win in a direct mind to mind conflict with a true demon of any rank?
True demons, like true angels, have vastly stronger levels of consciousness energy than any human. Because of this, they naturally have incredibly strong hypnotic powers, with which to reach out and affect or control or possess other minds. They are also ancient, sometimes beyond belief, so have vast experience to call upon.
However, it is possible to survive such an onslaught for a short time, say during a possession attack, but only because it usually takes a little time for a demon to penetrate a strong human mind. But once this is done then its a no win situation, without some form of outside intervention. An untrained mind in this situation, however, has virtually no defense whatsoever against such an attack, especially if the victim is naturally sensitive and thus has weaker natural shielding.
The only exception to the above is where a person is manifesting their higher self, or where an angelic mind moves in and intervenes. But this is not a simple human mind to demon mind direct confrontation, re a vastly superior level of consciousness is aiding and protecting the human mind. This may be a trifle pedantic, but I think its good to be clear on these matters.
Take care, Robert.
=============
A human, no matter how strong their mind, simply cannot go mind to mind with the lowest demon. It is a totally no win situation, much like walking into a major hurricane. Demons have the same level of
=
I will have to disagree here.
Going up against some of the things without tools; is not a good career move, and is not recommended; but some of use can when the need arrises.
Two Bears
Edited by - Robert Bruce on 04 March 2002 07:29:31
Title: Negs over water
Post by: Two Bears on March 04, 2002, 02:48:13
Post by: Two Bears on March 04, 2002, 02:48:13
Hello Robert; my brother.
=
Two Bears, you are of course free to believe as you choose, but I feel I must ask on what evidence you base your statement: that a normal, unaided, human mind, or even a trained mind, can win in a direct mind to mind conflict with a true demon of any rank?
=
I say it because I have done it myself. You probably don't know willpower till you have seen mine. I will only say that I have developed the willpower to stand in the "hug a tree" pose for 65 minutes when 95% of the people can't hold that pose for more than 3 minutes.
=
True demons, like true angels, have vastly stronger levels of consciousness energy than any human. Because of this, they naturally have incredibly strong hypnotic powers, with which to reach out and affect or control or possess other minds. They are also ancient, sometimes beyond belief, so have vast experience to call upon.
=
This statement; I agree with completely.
=
of outside intervention. An untrained mind in this situation, however, has virtually no defense whatsoever against such an attack, especially if the victim is naturally sensitive and thus has weaker natural shielding.
=
Correct.
=
The only exception to the above is where a person is manifesting their higher self, or where an angelic mind moves in and intervenes. But this is not a simple human mind to demon mind direct
=
Robert: in some soul retrievals I have done; on a few occasions; I have had to go without the aid of my totem animal; and I was able to walk away. If there was anyone protecting me; I was completely unaware of them.
Two Bears
Aloha nui loa
Received the title "master" 8 times and still trying to master myself.
=
Two Bears, you are of course free to believe as you choose, but I feel I must ask on what evidence you base your statement: that a normal, unaided, human mind, or even a trained mind, can win in a direct mind to mind conflict with a true demon of any rank?
=
I say it because I have done it myself. You probably don't know willpower till you have seen mine. I will only say that I have developed the willpower to stand in the "hug a tree" pose for 65 minutes when 95% of the people can't hold that pose for more than 3 minutes.
=
True demons, like true angels, have vastly stronger levels of consciousness energy than any human. Because of this, they naturally have incredibly strong hypnotic powers, with which to reach out and affect or control or possess other minds. They are also ancient, sometimes beyond belief, so have vast experience to call upon.
=
This statement; I agree with completely.
=
of outside intervention. An untrained mind in this situation, however, has virtually no defense whatsoever against such an attack, especially if the victim is naturally sensitive and thus has weaker natural shielding.
=
Correct.
=
The only exception to the above is where a person is manifesting their higher self, or where an angelic mind moves in and intervenes. But this is not a simple human mind to demon mind direct
=
Robert: in some soul retrievals I have done; on a few occasions; I have had to go without the aid of my totem animal; and I was able to walk away. If there was anyone protecting me; I was completely unaware of them.
Two Bears
Aloha nui loa
Received the title "master" 8 times and still trying to master myself.
Title: Negs over water
Post by: Robert Bruce on March 05, 2002, 21:33:08
Post by: Robert Bruce on March 05, 2002, 21:33:08
G'day!
Sorry, but I think we must agree to differ on this matter.
No matter what the level of a person's mental training and willpower, I stand by my previous statements that no unaided human mind can withstand a direct mind to mind conflict with a true demon.
The pressure of such an onslaught is immense. A trained mind with an iron will may withstand such an assault for a couple of minutes before their mind is taken over, but the pressure is just too strong and unyielding. This is why magicians that invoke demons (using Goetic magick or similar) go to such great lengths to bind a demon and protect themselves against it before it is allowed to manifest.
To answer the obvious question, as to why anyone would want to invoke a demon. Well, I do not practice goetic magick, but am familiar with its principles. Believe it or not, demons can be very useful. If not, there would be no point in invoking them. For example, often the simplest way to remove a demon that is attacking a person, is to order a stronger demon to attack and remove the lesser, whilst doing no harm to the victim. Angels are also often used to fight demons, but angels can be a little more fickle and difficult to work with.
Take care, Robert.
Edited by - Robert Bruce on 06 March 2002 11:12:59
Sorry, but I think we must agree to differ on this matter.
No matter what the level of a person's mental training and willpower, I stand by my previous statements that no unaided human mind can withstand a direct mind to mind conflict with a true demon.
The pressure of such an onslaught is immense. A trained mind with an iron will may withstand such an assault for a couple of minutes before their mind is taken over, but the pressure is just too strong and unyielding. This is why magicians that invoke demons (using Goetic magick or similar) go to such great lengths to bind a demon and protect themselves against it before it is allowed to manifest.
To answer the obvious question, as to why anyone would want to invoke a demon. Well, I do not practice goetic magick, but am familiar with its principles. Believe it or not, demons can be very useful. If not, there would be no point in invoking them. For example, often the simplest way to remove a demon that is attacking a person, is to order a stronger demon to attack and remove the lesser, whilst doing no harm to the victim. Angels are also often used to fight demons, but angels can be a little more fickle and difficult to work with.
Take care, Robert.
Edited by - Robert Bruce on 06 March 2002 11:12:59
Title: Negs over water
Post by: Robert Bruce on March 06, 2002, 20:47:09
Post by: Robert Bruce on March 06, 2002, 20:47:09
G'day!
I have not had the opportunity to test breaking neg attacks with anything but clean running water so far. Keep in mind that field tests must be fairly spontaneous, taking advantage of real life neg attacks when they happen. Strong neg attacks, even demonic attacks, can be 'arranged', if you know a good occultist. We have done this type of experiment, but this is very dangerous and sometimes life threatening, so I do not advise it for non-expert occultists. But, as for experimenting with other fluids, there is definitely room for further experimentation.
So far I've had success with:
1. Crossing a garden hose.
2. Crossing underground domestic plumbing pipes.
3. Crossing or standing over water mains.
4. Crossing or standing over underground streams.
5. Crossing rivers and streams of running water.
*Note that the volume and velocity of water is important. If a garden hose fails to bring relief, seek out a water main or etc. This can be accomplished by driving or walking around town, as many water mains will thus be crossed.
*Domestic showers and baths help, but do not seem quite as effective as the above methods, unless visualization is used, as per the below.
Note that I also often use an additional visualization technique to enhance the above methods, to remove or weaken attached entities. For example, place many coils of garden hose on the ground, clockwise, water gushing. Stand with feet among coils and say a prayer for protection. Then, visualize a large amount of brilliant white light entering your head and slowly filling you, and that this is forcing black fluid out of your feet, and this soaks away into the ground, or down the drain. Continue this for five minutes or longer.
The above can also be done in the shower. This is a very effective method of breaking a strong attack that crossing running water does not remove. This is also a good test, showing that you are dealing with an attached or overshadowing neg, re these are more difficult to dislodge.
The water plus visualization method is an excellent long term treatment method. It steadily drains negative energy and weakens firmly attached negs. I have had excellent results with this method, but best results usually come after about 30 days.
The other advantage of this method is that it is fairly innocuous, and will thus not attract unwanted attention from other people that may not understand.
Very often, even a very strong neg will be so drained by this long term method that it will just leave and go seeking greener pastures.
Take care, Robert.
I have not had the opportunity to test breaking neg attacks with anything but clean running water so far. Keep in mind that field tests must be fairly spontaneous, taking advantage of real life neg attacks when they happen. Strong neg attacks, even demonic attacks, can be 'arranged', if you know a good occultist. We have done this type of experiment, but this is very dangerous and sometimes life threatening, so I do not advise it for non-expert occultists. But, as for experimenting with other fluids, there is definitely room for further experimentation.
So far I've had success with:
1. Crossing a garden hose.
2. Crossing underground domestic plumbing pipes.
3. Crossing or standing over water mains.
4. Crossing or standing over underground streams.
5. Crossing rivers and streams of running water.
*Note that the volume and velocity of water is important. If a garden hose fails to bring relief, seek out a water main or etc. This can be accomplished by driving or walking around town, as many water mains will thus be crossed.
*Domestic showers and baths help, but do not seem quite as effective as the above methods, unless visualization is used, as per the below.
Note that I also often use an additional visualization technique to enhance the above methods, to remove or weaken attached entities. For example, place many coils of garden hose on the ground, clockwise, water gushing. Stand with feet among coils and say a prayer for protection. Then, visualize a large amount of brilliant white light entering your head and slowly filling you, and that this is forcing black fluid out of your feet, and this soaks away into the ground, or down the drain. Continue this for five minutes or longer.
The above can also be done in the shower. This is a very effective method of breaking a strong attack that crossing running water does not remove. This is also a good test, showing that you are dealing with an attached or overshadowing neg, re these are more difficult to dislodge.
The water plus visualization method is an excellent long term treatment method. It steadily drains negative energy and weakens firmly attached negs. I have had excellent results with this method, but best results usually come after about 30 days.
The other advantage of this method is that it is fairly innocuous, and will thus not attract unwanted attention from other people that may not understand.
Very often, even a very strong neg will be so drained by this long term method that it will just leave and go seeking greener pastures.
Take care, Robert.
Title: Negs over water
Post by: darrenbeck on March 07, 2002, 01:09:45
Post by: darrenbeck on March 07, 2002, 01:09:45
....
Title: Negs over water
Post by: Shadow Walker on March 07, 2002, 02:23:05
Post by: Shadow Walker on March 07, 2002, 02:23:05
Below I have put in a link to some info about the Lemegeton, if someone should be interested in them.
http://www.esotericarchives.com/solomon/lemegeton.htm
http://www.grimoires.com/
http://www.esotericarchives.com/solomon/lemegeton.htm
http://www.grimoires.com/
Title: Negs over water
Post by: Robert Bruce on March 07, 2002, 22:17:04
Post by: Robert Bruce on March 07, 2002, 22:17:04
G'day!
I do not think that negs get washed away by the movement of running water, but this may apply in some cases. You see, the problem is that this does not account for underground water, nor running water that is sealed in pipes or hoses. Negs 'should' be able to move over these things easily, but this is definitely not the case.
There are very few references indicating the potential of running water as an anti neg countermeasure. Dione Fortune mentions this in her book, 'Psychic Self-Defense', but does not elaborate. I forget where I read it (Either Dione Fortune, Levi, or Castenada), but I remember reading somewhere that humans have energy roots that extend down into the energy field that covers the surface of the earth. And that when we move, we make furrows in this energy field. Negs are said to attack us through these roots. It was suggested that when running water is crossed, this 'furrow' is filled in and a person is thus made invisible to negs, who do not have eyes like we do. Keep in mind that negs usually manifest in the physical universe in 2D form, so this likely has some truth in it.
It is well known in folklore and etc that witches, werewolves, demons and ghosts, etc, cannot cross running water, but no reasons are given. There is probably a lot more anti neg wisdom hidden away in folklore and etc.
You might think this riddle could be solved by asking channelled spirits, but you will find they either do not know or will not admit to running water / neg limitations. I've done this many times. You normally end up with pages of channelled stuff on how negs are not really bad or evil, and no straight answers are given.
My work on this has shown that some spirits, especially the more negative variety, are more affected by the physical universe than is currently suspected. How far this goes I am not sure, but it is known that scent, light and sound affect spirits, and probably EM fields and etc as well. There is lots of room for research and experimentation.
As for discovering the whole truth of this matter, well, I think I'll have to dig much deeper for this. And the only way to dig is through more and more personal exploration and experimentation, plus lots of deep thinking to let the inspiration flow. Rest assured that I will continue my research and experimentation on this matter for the rest of my life, and that my work will carry on regardless. My biggest holdup is simply a lack of suitable facilities and funds with which to continue my work. I have gone about as far as I can with what I have, so now really have to wait until I can afford to set up some proper facilities to continue my work.
Take care, Robert.
I do not think that negs get washed away by the movement of running water, but this may apply in some cases. You see, the problem is that this does not account for underground water, nor running water that is sealed in pipes or hoses. Negs 'should' be able to move over these things easily, but this is definitely not the case.
There are very few references indicating the potential of running water as an anti neg countermeasure. Dione Fortune mentions this in her book, 'Psychic Self-Defense', but does not elaborate. I forget where I read it (Either Dione Fortune, Levi, or Castenada), but I remember reading somewhere that humans have energy roots that extend down into the energy field that covers the surface of the earth. And that when we move, we make furrows in this energy field. Negs are said to attack us through these roots. It was suggested that when running water is crossed, this 'furrow' is filled in and a person is thus made invisible to negs, who do not have eyes like we do. Keep in mind that negs usually manifest in the physical universe in 2D form, so this likely has some truth in it.
It is well known in folklore and etc that witches, werewolves, demons and ghosts, etc, cannot cross running water, but no reasons are given. There is probably a lot more anti neg wisdom hidden away in folklore and etc.
You might think this riddle could be solved by asking channelled spirits, but you will find they either do not know or will not admit to running water / neg limitations. I've done this many times. You normally end up with pages of channelled stuff on how negs are not really bad or evil, and no straight answers are given.
My work on this has shown that some spirits, especially the more negative variety, are more affected by the physical universe than is currently suspected. How far this goes I am not sure, but it is known that scent, light and sound affect spirits, and probably EM fields and etc as well. There is lots of room for research and experimentation.
As for discovering the whole truth of this matter, well, I think I'll have to dig much deeper for this. And the only way to dig is through more and more personal exploration and experimentation, plus lots of deep thinking to let the inspiration flow. Rest assured that I will continue my research and experimentation on this matter for the rest of my life, and that my work will carry on regardless. My biggest holdup is simply a lack of suitable facilities and funds with which to continue my work. I have gone about as far as I can with what I have, so now really have to wait until I can afford to set up some proper facilities to continue my work.
Take care, Robert.
Title: Negs over water
Post by: darrenbeck on March 08, 2002, 03:41:48
Post by: darrenbeck on March 08, 2002, 03:41:48
....
Title: Negs over water
Post by: Bhikku on March 08, 2002, 14:11:09
Post by: Bhikku on March 08, 2002, 14:11:09
I hate to make you take a step backwards in this conversation Robert, but will something as simple as a table-top fountian provide some sort of protection from negs? Say if it were next to your bed? Also, how is it that negative ions hinder negative beings? I would think the opposite to be true. i.e. positive to deter negative. Thanks.
"Look within, thou art the Budda"
"Look within, thou art the Budda"
Title: Negs over water
Post by: Robert Bruce on March 09, 2002, 22:29:13
Post by: Robert Bruce on March 09, 2002, 22:29:13
G'day!
Well, here's hoping that book sales are huge. I have dreamed of starting my own research institute for over 15 years, and it is really really really nice seeing it move from the realms of the improbable to the possible, and even to the probable.
Aso for table top fountains, yes, these can help. You can buy these, feng shui fountains and japanese water sculptures qute cheaply.
As for the negative ion thingy, well, the physics of this does not apply to negative entities in the way the word 'negative' intimates.
I do not know if negative ions affect negative entities adversely. This is something that needs researching under controlled conditions.
What I plan to do, when I am able, is to set up a small test house and experiment with different countermeasures, and the ways these are applied, during actual psychic attacks. It will then be a matter of observing and seeing what affects negs the most, and fine tuning things, etc.
Take care, Robert.
Well, here's hoping that book sales are huge. I have dreamed of starting my own research institute for over 15 years, and it is really really really nice seeing it move from the realms of the improbable to the possible, and even to the probable.
Aso for table top fountains, yes, these can help. You can buy these, feng shui fountains and japanese water sculptures qute cheaply.
As for the negative ion thingy, well, the physics of this does not apply to negative entities in the way the word 'negative' intimates.
I do not know if negative ions affect negative entities adversely. This is something that needs researching under controlled conditions.
What I plan to do, when I am able, is to set up a small test house and experiment with different countermeasures, and the ways these are applied, during actual psychic attacks. It will then be a matter of observing and seeing what affects negs the most, and fine tuning things, etc.
Take care, Robert.
Title: Negs over water
Post by: Winged_Wolf on March 10, 2002, 21:30:17
Post by: Winged_Wolf on March 10, 2002, 21:30:17
As for going mind to mind with a demon:
Why on earth would you let it get near your mind anyhow? Use your energy to keep the critter OUT of your internal workings.
Yes, a being like that is powerful--but there are people who are moreso. And cleverness can also make up for lower power levels. Band together, and you can come up with more power than any demon--just add appropriately trained people until you exceed it. :)
For best results, shred the thing into pieces too small to hold the pattern, and eradicate it forever.
--Winged Wolf
Why on earth would you let it get near your mind anyhow? Use your energy to keep the critter OUT of your internal workings.
Yes, a being like that is powerful--but there are people who are moreso. And cleverness can also make up for lower power levels. Band together, and you can come up with more power than any demon--just add appropriately trained people until you exceed it. :)
For best results, shred the thing into pieces too small to hold the pattern, and eradicate it forever.
--Winged Wolf
Title: Negs over water
Post by: justine on April 28, 2002, 15:56:10
Post by: justine on April 28, 2002, 15:56:10
.........
Title: Negs over water
Post by: Robert Bruce on May 01, 2002, 00:07:05
Post by: Robert Bruce on May 01, 2002, 00:07:05
G'day folks!
Thanks for the quote, Justine. You'll find many such references in Celtic folklore, and seeds of truth abound therein.
As for going mind to mind with demons, and there being humans that are stronger, and tearing them into pieces to eradicate them, I'm afraid we shall have to agree to differ here. In my experience with these things, none of this is possible with anything but the lowest orders of demons, and of lowly
evil spirits and etc. Demons cannot be killed or destroyed, no more than one
could kill an angel. Only the hand of God has this level of power.
Thought forms and etc, however, often appear to be demonic. The description of tearing their energy apart and destroying their pattern seems to better fit what I know of thought forms and etc.
To reiterate, I think no human mind can go mind to mind with a serious demon and win. Anyone with a mind strong enough to do this would not be human. Serious demons are ancient, awesome beings. I have great respect for their mental strengths and metaphysical abilities. The only way I know for humans to confront them is either with magic or great faith, with the latter involving a strong higher self connection.
As for keeping such demons away from ones mind, well we all strive for this. But to make it sound like an easy thing to do is misleading. If a demon decides to attack a person, it will usually succeed unless a greater holy power is invoked to stop it. Simply creating some kind of energy shield on the spot will not deter it, eg, visualizing a shield of white light, etc. Real shields take skill and knowledge and regular effort to create and maintain. Creating a shield only when one comes under attack is not effective, not if the opposition is strong and wise. True shields must be ever present.
If a demon attacks and is deflected by a proper shield, it will fall back a little and wait as long as necessary, even years, for the shield to drop. It will also work on the target person through the people around them, to destabilize them and erode said shields.
The above is why serious spiritual and metaphysical development, when it gets to a certain point, requires a steep learning curve. Note that the majority of saints are well known to suffer frequent strong spiritual/demonic attack. This level of attack both tests them and drives them on to higher achievement. Even the late Mother Teresa experienced a great deal of spiritual attack during her life.
Anyway, all this is just my opinion, as I see it, according to my experience in these matters. I must be true to myself and do not expect everyone to agree with me.
Take care, Robert.
Thanks for the quote, Justine. You'll find many such references in Celtic folklore, and seeds of truth abound therein.
As for going mind to mind with demons, and there being humans that are stronger, and tearing them into pieces to eradicate them, I'm afraid we shall have to agree to differ here. In my experience with these things, none of this is possible with anything but the lowest orders of demons, and of lowly
evil spirits and etc. Demons cannot be killed or destroyed, no more than one
could kill an angel. Only the hand of God has this level of power.
Thought forms and etc, however, often appear to be demonic. The description of tearing their energy apart and destroying their pattern seems to better fit what I know of thought forms and etc.
To reiterate, I think no human mind can go mind to mind with a serious demon and win. Anyone with a mind strong enough to do this would not be human. Serious demons are ancient, awesome beings. I have great respect for their mental strengths and metaphysical abilities. The only way I know for humans to confront them is either with magic or great faith, with the latter involving a strong higher self connection.
As for keeping such demons away from ones mind, well we all strive for this. But to make it sound like an easy thing to do is misleading. If a demon decides to attack a person, it will usually succeed unless a greater holy power is invoked to stop it. Simply creating some kind of energy shield on the spot will not deter it, eg, visualizing a shield of white light, etc. Real shields take skill and knowledge and regular effort to create and maintain. Creating a shield only when one comes under attack is not effective, not if the opposition is strong and wise. True shields must be ever present.
If a demon attacks and is deflected by a proper shield, it will fall back a little and wait as long as necessary, even years, for the shield to drop. It will also work on the target person through the people around them, to destabilize them and erode said shields.
The above is why serious spiritual and metaphysical development, when it gets to a certain point, requires a steep learning curve. Note that the majority of saints are well known to suffer frequent strong spiritual/demonic attack. This level of attack both tests them and drives them on to higher achievement. Even the late Mother Teresa experienced a great deal of spiritual attack during her life.
Anyway, all this is just my opinion, as I see it, according to my experience in these matters. I must be true to myself and do not expect everyone to agree with me.
Take care, Robert.
Title: Negs over water
Post by: cainam_nazier on May 01, 2002, 01:06:51
Post by: cainam_nazier on May 01, 2002, 01:06:51
Okay I have a question about this whole negs and water thing.
The building I work in has many and I mean many water and steam lines running through it. Some as small as 1/2 inch and some as big 12-24 inches. We are constantly moving an impossible to calculate amount of water through the build. Since I do maintenance this is what I get to deal with all day.
1. So based on this I thought I was attacked by a neg do you think I would have to worry about it staying attached for very long?
2. Are only negs effected in this way or are many more nice entities effected this way also?
3. I only ask because of a singular presence that was there before dissapeared after about two years of me working at this place. But I don't know if he was good or bad but always appeared dark and shadowy. Could my work have driven him off?
David Rogalski
cainam_nazier@hotmail.com
The building I work in has many and I mean many water and steam lines running through it. Some as small as 1/2 inch and some as big 12-24 inches. We are constantly moving an impossible to calculate amount of water through the build. Since I do maintenance this is what I get to deal with all day.
1. So based on this I thought I was attacked by a neg do you think I would have to worry about it staying attached for very long?
2. Are only negs effected in this way or are many more nice entities effected this way also?
3. I only ask because of a singular presence that was there before dissapeared after about two years of me working at this place. But I don't know if he was good or bad but always appeared dark and shadowy. Could my work have driven him off?
David Rogalski
cainam_nazier@hotmail.com
Title: Negs over water
Post by: SPASTRAL on May 01, 2002, 09:05:00
Post by: SPASTRAL on May 01, 2002, 09:05:00
Hi All...
So if somebody meets a fully fledged demon on the astral, we are in serious trouble?
I always thought we had the advantage over entities on the Astral, or are we talking purely of physical manifestation.
How would a Mind on Mind bought go? (purely academic curiosity I must add!)
Spencer
So if somebody meets a fully fledged demon on the astral, we are in serious trouble?
I always thought we had the advantage over entities on the Astral, or are we talking purely of physical manifestation.
How would a Mind on Mind bought go? (purely academic curiosity I must add!)
Spencer
Title: Negs over water
Post by: Nita on May 05, 2002, 12:17:01
Post by: Nita on May 05, 2002, 12:17:01
Hello Everyone
I have a feng shui water fountain. I blessed the water to bring good into my home and to banish evil. The circulating motion makes it so this works like running water. You have to keep the fountain clean otherwise you can feel the blockages.
I think the important thing with demons is the subject of you as a human. A human mind alone can not stop a demon. A human mind open to the forces of good that works with those forces can stop anything. It is not the person that does it but the person and the forces of good that win the battles.
Nita
I have a feng shui water fountain. I blessed the water to bring good into my home and to banish evil. The circulating motion makes it so this works like running water. You have to keep the fountain clean otherwise you can feel the blockages.
I think the important thing with demons is the subject of you as a human. A human mind alone can not stop a demon. A human mind open to the forces of good that works with those forces can stop anything. It is not the person that does it but the person and the forces of good that win the battles.
Nita
Title: Negs over water
Post by: Robert Bruce on May 11, 2002, 00:41:15
Post by: Robert Bruce on May 11, 2002, 00:41:15
G'day Folks!
Steam and water pipes:
I have no idea how steam pipes affect nonphysical entities, but this would be well worth experimenting with. If a building has a lot of potable water and steam pipes running through it, experience tells me that this would drain and thus weaken any resident negative entities.
As for good spirits being affected by running water, I have no information on this. However, it is quite possible that whatever it is about running water that affects Negs will also drain manifesting good spirits of energy. But more research is needed on this matter, so this is only conjecture.
Keep in mind that Neg spirits have ways of crossing running water:
1. Hitchhiking a ride with a living being, animal or human. The living being shields them from the damaging or draining properties of running water.
2. Manifesting inside running water barriers, so actual geographic movement across running water is avoided.
Astral encounters with strong demons:
I have encountered a number of strong demons during OBE's, in both real time and astral environments, including a couple of archdemons. This might sound like it could be dangerous, but in all cases said demons have just moved away from me once they realize I have recognized them. I have attacked a couple of them, but they have never responded apart from moving away. In my experience, Demons like to keep their presence secret and will go to great lengths to hide their presence, and their indentity, including telling lies if communicated with in some way.
What I call 'astral wildlife', which are lower orders of astral beings, however, are more troublesome because they do not seem bothered about keeping their presence a secret. Most astral wildlife seem to have a more animalistic type of intelligence, and this may be the reason.
Mind to mind with a demon:
As to going mind to mind with a powerful demon, this is best described as like trying to walk against hurricane winds. The mental onslaught is tremendous and the pressure is incredible. Such a mind is very quickly filled with obsessive thoughts of a polluted nature. At its peak, such a person becomes controlled and can be forced to do anything the stronger mind wills.
Note that the above is different to what I call 'virtual puppetry', where it could be said that the centre of thinking awareness and consciousness is forced aside into a surreal world just outside the physical body.
There seem to be a variety of methods employed by demons, but they all have the same end in mind, eg, to possess the person in some way or other, in varying degrees from mild influence to total obsession. In a nutshell, demons possess, and that's what they do. They possess a person and inflict upon them spiritual pollution and physical disease.
But please keep in mind that full blown possession by a strong demon, to the point of said demon gaining total control, is extremely rare. Demons cannot function in our society, not if they are in full control, and thus need the human mind to take care of life and social interactions in general. The only reason a demon usually makes a bid for total control is when their purpose is to destroy a person, or when the demon is directly threatened, say by an exorcist. This is why exorcism is so dangerous, for the victim and exorcist alike.
Take care, Robert.
Steam and water pipes:
I have no idea how steam pipes affect nonphysical entities, but this would be well worth experimenting with. If a building has a lot of potable water and steam pipes running through it, experience tells me that this would drain and thus weaken any resident negative entities.
As for good spirits being affected by running water, I have no information on this. However, it is quite possible that whatever it is about running water that affects Negs will also drain manifesting good spirits of energy. But more research is needed on this matter, so this is only conjecture.
Keep in mind that Neg spirits have ways of crossing running water:
1. Hitchhiking a ride with a living being, animal or human. The living being shields them from the damaging or draining properties of running water.
2. Manifesting inside running water barriers, so actual geographic movement across running water is avoided.
Astral encounters with strong demons:
I have encountered a number of strong demons during OBE's, in both real time and astral environments, including a couple of archdemons. This might sound like it could be dangerous, but in all cases said demons have just moved away from me once they realize I have recognized them. I have attacked a couple of them, but they have never responded apart from moving away. In my experience, Demons like to keep their presence secret and will go to great lengths to hide their presence, and their indentity, including telling lies if communicated with in some way.
What I call 'astral wildlife', which are lower orders of astral beings, however, are more troublesome because they do not seem bothered about keeping their presence a secret. Most astral wildlife seem to have a more animalistic type of intelligence, and this may be the reason.
Mind to mind with a demon:
As to going mind to mind with a powerful demon, this is best described as like trying to walk against hurricane winds. The mental onslaught is tremendous and the pressure is incredible. Such a mind is very quickly filled with obsessive thoughts of a polluted nature. At its peak, such a person becomes controlled and can be forced to do anything the stronger mind wills.
Note that the above is different to what I call 'virtual puppetry', where it could be said that the centre of thinking awareness and consciousness is forced aside into a surreal world just outside the physical body.
There seem to be a variety of methods employed by demons, but they all have the same end in mind, eg, to possess the person in some way or other, in varying degrees from mild influence to total obsession. In a nutshell, demons possess, and that's what they do. They possess a person and inflict upon them spiritual pollution and physical disease.
But please keep in mind that full blown possession by a strong demon, to the point of said demon gaining total control, is extremely rare. Demons cannot function in our society, not if they are in full control, and thus need the human mind to take care of life and social interactions in general. The only reason a demon usually makes a bid for total control is when their purpose is to destroy a person, or when the demon is directly threatened, say by an exorcist. This is why exorcism is so dangerous, for the victim and exorcist alike.
Take care, Robert.
Title: Negs over water
Post by: cainam_nazier on May 11, 2002, 06:04:18
Post by: cainam_nazier on May 11, 2002, 06:04:18
Thanks for the reply Mr. Bruce.
Does the purity of the water make a difference? IE, The more natural the water the better V.S. softened, distilled, or any other process that would add/remove natural components.
I ask because after I posted the last time I went and talked to some of the people who claim to have seen various things in the building besides myself. Appearences seem to be largly in rooms which would limit the amount of water lines, and usually on the upper floors of the building. The locations that I have personally seen things have have been in spots where some one could get without crossing any lines at all, but they would be standing/walking next to or under several lines.
Also noted that we do have at least one resident spirit in the building. His name is Carl, he was a former employee who died at the building of a heart attack. He seems to be able to move freely through the building because people have claimed to seem him in many different locations. This being years worth of sightings.
David Rogalski
cainam_nazier@hotmail.com
Does the purity of the water make a difference? IE, The more natural the water the better V.S. softened, distilled, or any other process that would add/remove natural components.
I ask because after I posted the last time I went and talked to some of the people who claim to have seen various things in the building besides myself. Appearences seem to be largly in rooms which would limit the amount of water lines, and usually on the upper floors of the building. The locations that I have personally seen things have have been in spots where some one could get without crossing any lines at all, but they would be standing/walking next to or under several lines.
Also noted that we do have at least one resident spirit in the building. His name is Carl, he was a former employee who died at the building of a heart attack. He seems to be able to move freely through the building because people have claimed to seem him in many different locations. This being years worth of sightings.
David Rogalski
cainam_nazier@hotmail.com
Title: Negs over water
Post by: Joe on May 12, 2002, 01:46:25
Post by: Joe on May 12, 2002, 01:46:25
G'day Robert/Nita - as an aside, do you know if strong negs / demons attack other non-physical entities in the same way they attack and/or possess humans? Is there something about us that makes us more attractive or more vulnerable amongst the vast array of sentient life out there? Also, not including the "greater purpose" of such attacks, what motivation does a neg/demon have for harrassing/polluting humans - do they derive personal pleasure? Is this how they pass time? And last of all (this is going to sound absolutely stupid) is there any way that a human can relate to and/or work with, the psychology of a demon/neg? Or are their thoughts not comparable to our own.
My thanks if you feel like answering some dumb questions![]("http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/images/icon_Smile.gif")
My thanks if you feel like answering some dumb questions
Title: Negs over water
Post by: Robert Bruce on June 13, 2002, 22:18:21
Post by: Robert Bruce on June 13, 2002, 22:18:21
G'day Folks!
Just how running water affects negs is unclear. But it is known that the quality and movement of water have an effect. This either hurts them or drains them of energy.
More testing is needed on all these things. But this is difficult to do as one has to seek real life opportunities, often in life or death situations.
As for the building and its water pipes in question, I suggest you get a map of the building and stick coloured pins in it showing sightings. You may find the pins collect in certain areas, maybe areas free of running water as your earlier letter suggests. You should find some areas that are totally free of sightings. These would be worth examining.
The ghost 'Carl' may move about by hitching rides with humans.
As said, this is a cloudy area as not enough is known about spirit types and their individual methods and limitations. But we now at least have 'something' to work with, in that negative type spirits do indeed have some physical limitations.
Negs are known to attack other Negs, eg, like where a demon is used to attack and remove another demon, which is a common magical practice. It is known, and quite obvious, that Negs of any type do not work well in groups; thank goodness.
Neg motivations are very difficult to ascertain, as is their psychology. Their minds and motivations are vastly different from humans, experience tells me. But they have advanced human psychology skills and abilities, that much is very clear, especially the more advanced types.
As for what happens during a direct mind to mind confrontation with a demon, well, its not a pretty picture. Your willpower is quickly reduced to zero, and your mind is quickly polluted by terrible thoughts that are not your own. The pressure is relentless, like a hurricane wind. This can also be very painful, as it can cause very strong cramps all through the body. By strong, I mean cramps that tear muscles and flesh. Terrible head pain and pressure is also quite common.
I hope to learn more about all these matters in the future, hopefully in less dramatic and less painful ways than has so far been my lot in life.
Take care, Robert.
Just how running water affects negs is unclear. But it is known that the quality and movement of water have an effect. This either hurts them or drains them of energy.
More testing is needed on all these things. But this is difficult to do as one has to seek real life opportunities, often in life or death situations.
As for the building and its water pipes in question, I suggest you get a map of the building and stick coloured pins in it showing sightings. You may find the pins collect in certain areas, maybe areas free of running water as your earlier letter suggests. You should find some areas that are totally free of sightings. These would be worth examining.
The ghost 'Carl' may move about by hitching rides with humans.
As said, this is a cloudy area as not enough is known about spirit types and their individual methods and limitations. But we now at least have 'something' to work with, in that negative type spirits do indeed have some physical limitations.
Negs are known to attack other Negs, eg, like where a demon is used to attack and remove another demon, which is a common magical practice. It is known, and quite obvious, that Negs of any type do not work well in groups; thank goodness.
Neg motivations are very difficult to ascertain, as is their psychology. Their minds and motivations are vastly different from humans, experience tells me. But they have advanced human psychology skills and abilities, that much is very clear, especially the more advanced types.
As for what happens during a direct mind to mind confrontation with a demon, well, its not a pretty picture. Your willpower is quickly reduced to zero, and your mind is quickly polluted by terrible thoughts that are not your own. The pressure is relentless, like a hurricane wind. This can also be very painful, as it can cause very strong cramps all through the body. By strong, I mean cramps that tear muscles and flesh. Terrible head pain and pressure is also quite common.
I hope to learn more about all these matters in the future, hopefully in less dramatic and less painful ways than has so far been my lot in life.
Take care, Robert.
Title: Negs over water
Post by: kakkarot on June 14, 2002, 21:42:55
Post by: kakkarot on June 14, 2002, 21:42:55
hey robert: "As for what happens during a direct mind to mind confrontation with a demon, well, its not a pretty picture..." is this for even the weak demons? i have had a few experiences in my life time (actually a number greater than a few but less than a lot :) ) where some sort of spiritual entity has tried to influence my thinking. sometimes i went with it and only realized after the deed was done that it wasn't my idea to do it; other times i realized right away that the thought wasn't mine; and other times i have realized it in the middle of doing it. once i realized what i was doing, i was able to stop each time; and only a few times required lots of effort.
and many of the times that i got control back, there was a brief mental (sometimes spiritual) "war". most of the time it felt as though the entity backed down though rather than being defeated. sometimes though, it was clear that i won the contest of wills. so is it that all demons are too powerful for a human to defeat? or am i just stronger willed than most, or is it more likely that they weren't demons but rather some other form of spiritual being?
cause, most of the times i had the wars i was able to "see" into the general thoughts of the being and i have learned a few things from it; nothing specific, but generalizations about life and whatnot (for instance, demons are old creatures, eternal by some accounts, and so, in their eons of life, they have learned what really matters to them and aren't so wishy-washy in what they do, as humans are).
i don't REALLY need to know, but it would be kinda nice to know. thanks to anyone who replies.
~kakkarot
Secret of Secrets
and many of the times that i got control back, there was a brief mental (sometimes spiritual) "war". most of the time it felt as though the entity backed down though rather than being defeated. sometimes though, it was clear that i won the contest of wills. so is it that all demons are too powerful for a human to defeat? or am i just stronger willed than most, or is it more likely that they weren't demons but rather some other form of spiritual being?
cause, most of the times i had the wars i was able to "see" into the general thoughts of the being and i have learned a few things from it; nothing specific, but generalizations about life and whatnot (for instance, demons are old creatures, eternal by some accounts, and so, in their eons of life, they have learned what really matters to them and aren't so wishy-washy in what they do, as humans are).
i don't REALLY need to know, but it would be kinda nice to know. thanks to anyone who replies.
~kakkarot
Secret of Secrets
Title: Negs over water
Post by: Robert Bruce on June 17, 2002, 01:08:07
Post by: Robert Bruce on June 17, 2002, 01:08:07
G'day!
Demons and other strong types of evil spirit are master psycholgists, telepaths and hypnotists. Hypnotic power (which is mind to mind domination) is how they exert influences. They know the human mind and its weaknesses like the backs of their hands. One of their greatest advantages is human belief that they do not exist, that its all in the mind of the human concerned. Because of this, they will usually back off during a confrontation so the victim will not become aware of them. This is what normally happens when a person says they have defeated a demon or whatever mind to mind. But, its a completely different picture when the Neg is deliberately attacking a human who knows they exist. The gloves come off then, so to speak.
Also, there are many types and levels of Neg, and some are quite weak. Some of these will pretend to be big, scary demons, but are easily vanquished. Its very difficult to tell what you are up against unless you have the psychic abilities and experience to tell what is what.
Even a low order demon, say a common legionaire, has a stronger mind and level of consciousness than a human. This type can be compared with a low order angel. Any human who is actually stronger, unaided mind to mind, than this type of being, demon or angel, cannot be human because all humans have their limitations.
But this is not to say that such evil beings cannot be defeated. They can be beaten, but not unaided.
How strong Negs possess and torture humans is scientifically explainable.
Human nerves respond to thought, normally the thoughts of the person involved. Thoughts create subtle EM fields that affect nerves, which in turn generate biochemical signals that cause other nerves to respond. In this way, complex movements and other bodily functions are caused by the human brain/mind.
A stronger mind, such as a demon or similar, can generate stronger and more focused thoughts than a human, especially an untrained human mind. The stronger thought overcomes the weaker thought and causes nerves to react in different ways, or to perform independently without the host mind's directions. In this way, a strong Neg mind can influence, control, even possess, a human being, depending on the Neg's strength and skill. Pain can also be caused in this way, as well as physical movement, through direct nerve induction.
Take care, Robert.
Demons and other strong types of evil spirit are master psycholgists, telepaths and hypnotists. Hypnotic power (which is mind to mind domination) is how they exert influences. They know the human mind and its weaknesses like the backs of their hands. One of their greatest advantages is human belief that they do not exist, that its all in the mind of the human concerned. Because of this, they will usually back off during a confrontation so the victim will not become aware of them. This is what normally happens when a person says they have defeated a demon or whatever mind to mind. But, its a completely different picture when the Neg is deliberately attacking a human who knows they exist. The gloves come off then, so to speak.
Also, there are many types and levels of Neg, and some are quite weak. Some of these will pretend to be big, scary demons, but are easily vanquished. Its very difficult to tell what you are up against unless you have the psychic abilities and experience to tell what is what.
Even a low order demon, say a common legionaire, has a stronger mind and level of consciousness than a human. This type can be compared with a low order angel. Any human who is actually stronger, unaided mind to mind, than this type of being, demon or angel, cannot be human because all humans have their limitations.
But this is not to say that such evil beings cannot be defeated. They can be beaten, but not unaided.
How strong Negs possess and torture humans is scientifically explainable.
Human nerves respond to thought, normally the thoughts of the person involved. Thoughts create subtle EM fields that affect nerves, which in turn generate biochemical signals that cause other nerves to respond. In this way, complex movements and other bodily functions are caused by the human brain/mind.
A stronger mind, such as a demon or similar, can generate stronger and more focused thoughts than a human, especially an untrained human mind. The stronger thought overcomes the weaker thought and causes nerves to react in different ways, or to perform independently without the host mind's directions. In this way, a strong Neg mind can influence, control, even possess, a human being, depending on the Neg's strength and skill. Pain can also be caused in this way, as well as physical movement, through direct nerve induction.
Take care, Robert.
Title: Negs over water
Post by: kakkarot on June 18, 2002, 18:44:27
Post by: kakkarot on June 18, 2002, 18:44:27
thanks, mr. bruce.
~kakkarot
Secret of Secrets
~kakkarot
Secret of Secrets
Title: Negs over water
Post by: Joe on February 18, 2002, 02:04:34
Post by: Joe on February 18, 2002, 02:04:34
This is a bit theoretical, but I can't help wondering about some aspects of the theory that negs can't cross water...
1. Does the barrier have to be very close, or can the water be several levels down? ie. if I were on the 3rd floor of a building, would the water mains below street level protect me?
2. Does the general theory mean that no neg can travel between countries that are separated by water? ie. New Zealand to Australia (God forbid!)
3. Why couldn't a neg travel "over" or "under" a barrier?
4. Do other "good" or even "amoral" entities suffer the same weakness? ie. elementals, nature spirits, etc.
Thanks!
1. Does the barrier have to be very close, or can the water be several levels down? ie. if I were on the 3rd floor of a building, would the water mains below street level protect me?
2. Does the general theory mean that no neg can travel between countries that are separated by water? ie. New Zealand to Australia (God forbid!)
3. Why couldn't a neg travel "over" or "under" a barrier?
4. Do other "good" or even "amoral" entities suffer the same weakness? ie. elementals, nature spirits, etc.
Thanks!