:evil:
There is only perception in a subjective universe....(like this one)[;)]
even if I grant you that there is only perception in a subjective universe, it does not mean that the mechanism postulated as underlying the "possession experience" has any legitimacy; It does not mean that the "possession experience" necessarily implies that individuals with said experiences have actually been possessed by others. In fact, if you could produce the "possession experience" by stimulating certain regions of the brain, then that would be good evidence that the "possession experience" is all in your head.
Well Thanotos, you may say what you want, but they are very real. Quite scary too. Ive had to battle it out with negs all my life, and was possessed twice because of it.
The first time was horribly painful, the second I caught just in time that it never got a grip on me.
Ive been going through alot these days, only now do I seem to be making progress.
It might be recreated, but I can swear to you today. They are real and believe me it aint fun.
quote:
Originally posted by Thanatos
even if I grant you that there is only perception in a subjective universe, it does not mean that the mechanism postulated as underlying the "possession experience" has any legitimacy; It does not mean that the "possession experience" necessarily implies that individuals with said experiences have actually been possessed by others. In fact, if you could produce the "possession experience" by stimulating certain regions of the brain, then that would be good evidence that the "possession experience" is all in your head.
Well one way of thinking of it is that it is a controlling by outside influences that are there. The controlling of energy of another being is possession, so it is completely possible. But it could be so subtle that you may never realize the damage it is doing to you until it becomes to late. Also, the brain only observes the physical universe, whereas consciousness observes it all.
Hi Thanatos,
I can't provide hard evidence for possessions, so I'm doing the next best thing. Here is an extract from my book in progress about an actual event I was part of with other witnesses. It is a bit long but you may find it interesting.
"Chapter 2. Unexplained Stuff.
On a clear summer night in 1976, some of the boys decided to investigate a rumour we had heard concerning an old graveyard near a small suburb on the way to Brisbane City. Here it was said, an angel statue would bleed at midnight from wounds on the neck and wings. These damaged areas were the result of a rampage through the cemetery by drunken youths. We duly arrived prior to midnight and were fortunate to park the car in a position where we could flood the statue with light. To our true amazement, a warm, dark substance was bleeding from the wounds and I believe that right then we all wished we had gone to the toilet before leaving town. Every night sound stopped, creating an eerie silence just in time for us all to hear church bells toll midnight. This really spooked us, as we knew there were no churches anywhere nearby that could provide these sound effects. Around this time each of us must have decided to leave post-haste, but this evening was not finished with us yet. For as the last peal rang out, we heard a piercing scream from the oldest section of the graveyard.
Our friend Mike had screamed and collapsed, by the time we reached him he was growling like some wild thing, and was becoming stronger. It seemed to me that his strength was growing in quantum leaps. Five of us attempted to lift him to his feet but he kicked and struck out at us, so we dragged him back to the car and unceremoniously dumped him in the floor space between the front and rear seats of the old Holden. Frantically we left the graveyard, pushing the tired six-cylinder engine to it's limits in an attempt to get Mike to a priest for help. During this journey he became too strong for the people who had been holding him down with their feet. Automatically, my right arm reached over the back of the seat and lightly touched him, making him calmer as soon as he was touched. This action was repeated a number of times as we sped to town. I had no explanations for this when asked, in no way did I intentionally make the move. It was as if my arm had a mind of it's own, like an autonomous entity attached to my shoulder.
Along that highway is a concrete and steel pedestrian overbridge with each end support jutting out into the verge of the road. We were approaching this when I became aware that our driver was glazing over, literally, his facial features took on an unusual appearance. I also noticed he was steering us toward a high speed collision with the bridge supports on the left side of the road, my side, since I was sitting in the front passenger's seat. Once again my arm moved without me directing it, touching his arm with my fingers released him from whatever had taken control. He then looked at me with fear written large across his face, for a fraction of a second while veering back onto the road proper. "I don't know what just happened, but 'It' wants to kill you because you can stop it," he informed me. I could find no words to respond to him.
The remainder of the trip back to our home town was virtually uneventful after that, but the night was nowhere near an end. We made a bee-line for the first church in town and proceeded to bang on the minister's door at around one o'clock, until the poor man had to get out of bed to see what all the commotion was about. He listened to our story then slammed the door saying, "Take him away please, I won't help." One of the boys spoke out loudly for the minister's benefit, "That's great. So what are we supposed to do now," and as an afterthought he added, "Did you guys see how scared he was ?" We continued our quest.
Knocking on the furth door that morning we all expected the same responses, you might say that a pattern had been established. A kindly face topped with grey hair appeared in the doorway and listened to our well rehearsed tale, he then flung the door wide open and standing to his full height, he commanded, "Bring him in while I prepare." We could not believe our luck, someone would try to help Mike. Dutifully we dragged our wild-eyed friend out of the car, through the open door and down the hall to the minister's office. Thinking that we had all done our bit, we turned to leave, until the priest intervened. "You boys wait out at the car," he ordered, then turning directly to me he added, "You are to stay. We will do an exorcism for your friend." Strange feelings and a large dose of fear raged through me as I responded,
"Yes Father, I will help." But I thought, "Why did I say that ?" Without getting a reply from myself, I followed his every instruction while the animated creature before us babbled on menacingly, in a language unknown to me. Over a period of hours this contorted person slowly transformed into my friend Mike, much to our relief.
Mike had no memory of the events leading up to the point where he was being blessed by the minister, as dawn began filtering through the windows. I was then asked to take him out to the car where I found only the driver had remained, fast asleep behind the steering wheel. With Mike deposited in the car and now asleep also, I returned to the office to thank this man for helping us. He thanked me for my help, commended my courage and blessed me, then looking deep into my eyes he asked, "Did you know that you had been touched by the hand of God ?" What ? Why say something like that ? And just what did he mean by that ? He continued, "You are indeed fortunate to be chosen. Your friend will need further help, you will do what is required without need of me. Go in peace my boy." That was enough for my brain, it refused to come up with any questions and retired for the night.
It was to be the last time I saw this person, I hope he knows how thankful I was for his help and eventually for his comments that took another twenty years to start understanding. Just as predicted Mike did need more help. I honestly could not tell you how many times people came looking for me with the same request, "You have to come, Mike's gone strange again." When I was taken to him, he was behaving in the same manner as the night of our cemetery trip. Every time I would find the courage to walk up to him, while the sceptics laughed, and put my right hand over his heart to speak the words that came. And every time Mike would quickly slip out and into consciousness then say, "G'day mate. How did you get here ? Hey, what's going on here mate ?" Every time.
Most people would decide that this story was totally unbelievable, a figment of a fertile imagination or perhaps just a spooky story and certainly not real. Although the people who lived this event would strongly disagree. For me this would illustrate how, as a society of individuals, we make judgements about unusual occurrences that other people endure as part of their life's realities. Perhaps, if we could suspend our judgements and criticisms, we may see that outside of our own box of experiences, there exists complex and infinite other possibilities. Not having experienced you getting out of bed this morning, I cannot in all honesty make any judgement on whether you did or didn't. I simply don't know, so therefore, it is not my right to pass any judgement upon you. If only we all understood this and then practiced it."
Copyright 2003.
Hope you enjoyed the story.
Love Always. [:)]
*clears throat*
Ahem.
Hello, I'm Kyle of the Squirrel, and today I will be playing the part of the hard-core skeptic. The kind that's not so much a skeptic, as much as he is a doubter, and refuses to even think about believing.
*gets into character*
Pffft. Your story is anecdotal. It has just as much value as monopoly money. Why, if science to accept every story handed to it, then we would be believing that Jack and the Beanstalk was a true story!
*breaks character*
Thank, you. Kyle of the Squirrel.
people in covens left hand path (healing) avater or chanel a spirt in ritual pracktises so why not by force
Also I would like to add, that it hasnt been observed under scientific conditions. So just because it isnt documented, dosnt mean its fiction.
I would also like to add that a number of years ago, scientists thought that Medicine men from the rainforest and places like that were a sham......only to later use the plants they did to make drugs.
There is much we dont understand. Looking at life through a straw is nieve.
quote:
Originally posted by Thanatos
even if I grant you that there is only perception in a subjective universe, it does not mean that the mechanism postulated as underlying the "possession experience" has any legitimacy; It does not mean that the "possession experience" necessarily implies that individuals with said experiences have actually been possessed by others. In fact, if you could produce the "possession experience" by stimulating certain regions of the brain, then that would be good evidence that the "possession experience" is all in your head.
And I agree with you.
Reality is a tricky thing. I've found that if a person actively (meaning that they feel and think it fairly strongly) believes something, that they will attract to themselves experiences and evidence to support their thesis. There appears to be a "near field reality warp" effect in the world of that person. If you can accept the possibility of this, then you can see the possibility that "reality" is a fairly negotiable, variable and ultimately, subjective thing for all of us. We generate our own reality.
I've observed this for a long time and I used to dive right in with debating "truth" surrounding ideas such as yours. After a while I started to realize that it is fruitless to try to convince someone of something that they actively disbelieved. And the reason is not that "they are wrong and I'm right and they're too dense to see it", the truth of the matter is that within the sphere of that persons personal reality distortion field, their thesis is at least partially true.
If I were to (and I can do this at will if I want to) remain passively in the locality of the person whose idea I previously disputed, and observe the physics of that locality, I would observe that the physics obey, at least to some extent, the thesis of the other person, not my own. If I then reassert myself, and begin to actively project my own thesis upon the screen of "reality", and if I am a fundamentally stronger person in this respect, then I can change the physics of the locality to support my thesis.
So.....if you believe that possession is bunk, then I actually have to agree with you. And, might I add, it's one way to avoid being possessed.[;)][;)][;)][;)][;)][;)][;)][;)]
I'm sceptical about possessions. Can anyone provide any hard evidence supporting possession? Thanks.