The Astral Pulse

Hi Qui-gon Jim
  I have told that to many people and I could tell many more things that I have experienced. Everyone rationalizes it away if possible because no one wants to believe that such things can exist or happen to anyone. If it could happen then it might happen to them.
  You are left with a dead human body which is why I prefered something less noisy than a gun. Silver causes a allergic reaction. Wolfbane is a poison. If you think allergic reactions aren't deadly ask a person who is allergic to a substance.
  I believe that a lot of the old myths are true. They may have been exaggerated over the years but it doesn't mean that they don't have a basis in fact. Fairy rings are supposed to be able to transport you to another realm. People have vanished in them why couldn't they be gateways to other places?
  You don't have to believe everything you hear. I do know once you experience a lot of things that you read about and thought were not really true you just develop a way to be ready for everything.
  I am also just as sure that most stuff wouldn't work on a rampaging werewolf. A magic circle might but I really am not that brave. I would prefer to shoot anything trying to eat me and take the consequences later.
  Nita

after doing research into the shapechanging community
in the were-creature communtiy most believe they are
the reincarnation of animals with a few admitting to being able to
shapechange a bit or all the way.  of all the communities
the one that stood out with the most who said they could shapechange
seemed to be the dragon community. of corse not many people have seem
dragons or draconoids except maybe extraterrestrial.  

Isn't this more of a physical self defense issue rather than a psychic one?  Anyway, I think I will get an UZI and load it with silver tipped bullets.  I think the 9mm version can fire a full thirty round magazine in something like 1.3 seconds, sounds effective to me...

fides quaerens intellectum

im not sure if silver buttets or bullets in general would work on dragons lol

Daniel, forgot about the UZI mate.
Afterall, both you and me are SILVER members, werewolves will be scared out of their pants (if they have any) when they see us...
  I´m just worried we´ll turn into gold or something else than silver members when we reach 200 posts, well, you seem to get there faster than me so I guess I can wait and see if your immunity vanishes...

  Be well and may the force be with you //Qui-Gon

- Your focus determines your reality -

hello from a mexican (term often used in australia by those living in  North to those in the south).

       Fenris, you dont live on the outskirts do you, reason I ask is that haven't there been siteings up around Queensland of what is supposed to a Panther. Not long ago there was some video footage shot that ended up on the news,looked like a panther to me?
        There's an amusing story from a parks ranger from one of the national parks down here(Victoria).Two tourists(middle aged women from America) walked into a parks office to obtian some maps and during the conversation with the staff one said, "oh, I didn't realize you also had Cougars over hear too", the young ranger started to explian that some of the locals were just spreading a myth.The woman asked "if he had ever seen a cougar close up" to which he replied "no". The woman then told the ranger that, she "had", and that were she lives in America she has seen many in her lifetime", and what she and her friend saw in the park was in fact a cougar.
        The woman took the ranger to were it was apparently seen.This information is documentated with Parks Victoria.

         anyhow,who knows, the way you discribed it's stealth,and if youv'e looked a panther in the eyes at the zoo,they look straight througth you.


          If you should be out running at night and see it, be it physical or entitie "Run faster mate".

regards :Steve

G,day everyone!

Hey Fenris & Justine your fellow Brisbanites as well eh? I,m in
Daisy Hill & been here for 11 years now after moving from Sydney.
Do you guys go to the circle bookshop in Albert street?
It will have everything you could imagine on not only everything
on this site but everything in your posts as well.

Steve I heard about that panther looking thing as well & was the
first thing that came to my mind when I heard Fenris's post.
Who knows,it could be.

All the best on your journeys

Mobius

.........

Hervey bay huh,the whales will be arriving soon eh? & Gympie!
Have you heard about or checked out the Phonecian & Egyptian
inscriptions & pyramids at the old whaling area at Gympie?
I  want to get around to having a look at that stuff sounds cool!

Good journeys

Mobius

Hi all

To come away a little from the werewolf thing and more on anything which manifests its self into the physical world...

Mankind can project himself into the astral and have control over his form while there. So you would be naive to believe  that an entity which  'belongs' in another plane could not potentially posses the ability to alter its form while in the physical world.  An entity that comes and forms in the physical could be subject to de-manifestation and could possibly not be subject to the limitations of normal physical mortality. And yes some form of de-manifesting substance would prove effective. However a creature which is a transformation of a human is an entirely physical based being. And would be subject to physical laws. If a werewolf of similar creature did indeed exist I see no reason why it could not be killed by normal means. Perhaps a de-manifesting material could make things easier. Its not something you get to try often I guess.

Yes I love the circle bookshop.

Regards David  


Veni Vidi Vici

Winged Wolf: why not? If you can accept the existance of demons, of which you claim to have such intimate knowledge, why not werewolves? It is possible that such a person would need to join forces with a demon-class entity to create enough power for physical change, and an upside-down pentegram could well work very well as a sigil, eg to channel energy and link the two beings. May also be something to do with being property of the demon, or whatever it is that helps the human out.
If you don't have any experience with this, it certainly doesn't mean nobody else does. "There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
than are dreamt of in your philosophy." said Shakespeare.

Nita: Interesting posts! I am impressed you were actually considering going back and fighting this thing. I would probably spend the next day laying bricks as they say....
But how do you think the changes are affected? Do you think that the person really would need to be joined with, say, a demon or are born with the ability? I imagine it uses a hell of a lot of energy, hence the big appetite. And why would the body change back into a human? That I don't understand...

If a person can turn into a werewolf and eat people, does that make the person a cannibal? Or because it was inhuman at the time, it cannot be categorised as cannibalism, hmmm?

This is a sort of werewolf tale, and it is true but I wondered about it all the same. Many years ago, my friend met a psychic lady, so she invited her over for a morning tea psychic reading thingy with friends. The psychic lady was just incredible, little details that no-one could know, quite specific, just the best psychic you could imagine.... except with me. But hey, different courses for different courses....  Everyone else was just absolutely stunned and rapt with her, her comments, etc and many came true later that were predictions. (Except me, but I think she was too tired by then, ha ha)

This lady was probably in her late fifties / early sixites and quite eccentric. She later popped round to visit my friend (whom I was sharing a house with) and produced x-rays. My friend later showed them to me, before returning them to her. The woman claimed she had werewolf genes in her, but they had diluted (what's the word?) [:p} .... and what was happening with her was that hair was growing inside her body at an incredible rate she had to have surgery for it.

OK I am laughing as I write this, it is so bizarre!!!!!! But it is a true tale....

She was a nutter, right?

Or am I the nutter?

Cheerios and bangers
Donni



"A balance of perspective must be maintained in order to preserve reasonable logic and truth." Robert the Brute, 2002

Fenris,

maybe you are the werewolf!

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

and when the day arrives
i'll become the sky
and i'll become the sea

and the sea will come to kiss me
for i am going
home

nothing can stop me now

First, I simply don't think a demon has the right kind of ability to make a person physically change in that fashion--not to that degree.
Second, if it did, a pentagram would be a terrible choice of sigil.  A point-down pentagram is not like an upside-down cross or something.  It's not a demonic symbol.  In fact, 2nd degree Gardnerian Wicca sometimes use it.  It merely signifies (in SOME traditions) dominance of the flesh over the intellect/emotion/spirit etc.
A point up pentagram signifies (again, in SOME traditions) dominance of spirit, but it is primarily a protective symbol.  The first is inappropriate, the second is more suited to warding OFF a demon.
This is more like something a kiddie playing at being a devil worshipper would use--not a real one.  Plus, it was created in fiction.  Someone heard about the "mark of the werewolf", and what did they come up with?  They decided that the legendary (undescribed) mark must OBVIOUSLY be that old occult standby, the pentagram.

The amount of sheer power and knowledge required to achieve something like physical transformation, however it might be done, pretty much precludes a kiddy who's seen too many horror films.  If the guy was going to use a sigil that way, it'd be one a LOT more powerful, obscure, and above all specific, than a pentagram.
This guy being a mentally twisted devil-worshipper wannabe, that I can see.  A real shapeshifting werewolf?  No way.
Just MO.

The "were coyotes"....could they be psi wolves?  (http://www.angelfire.com/realm2/Parazoology/psiwolf.html)
I'd buy powerful psychokinetic spirit entities that LOOK like werewolves LONG before I'd buy actual humans shapeshifting into animals.


--Winged Wolf
"I will stare at the sun until its light doesn't blind me, and I will walk into the fire, 'til its heat doesn't burn me, and I will feed the fire...."

G'day Folks!

There are certain magickal rites that a person can use to turn themselves into a werewolf.  But these are secret black magick rites, and the skill required to use them is very high indeed.  I know one person who has done this, and I have no reason to doubt them.

It is also possible, if you have the extreme skill and ability and knowledge needed, to transform the human physical body and take it into the astral planes, and then return to the physical world.  It thus makes sense that a non human entity, say a demon, could materialize itself here in the physical universe.  They can choose any shape they want, just as a projector can shape shift.

Powerful demons have the ability to materialize in physical form.  Angels also have this ability.  I have seen this happen, and know others who have seen this as well.  Avatar's also have this ability.  I cite the miracles of the bible, and Sai Baba's well known feat of vanishing in a flash of light and then reappearing on the other side of a river, or etc.  Also, Sai's ability to manifest physical objects, eg, the sacred ash 'vebuti' (sp?), and jewlry and etc.

There are also cases of people teleporting themselves across the world in times of great stress.  Once case I read of, a man was hunting tiger's in india, and was attacked by one while he sat in a tree at night.  Before the creature could reach him, he found himself naked in a London Street. He had no idea how he got there, and no time had passed.  Of course, this kind of thing is never validated because it is way too difficult to prove, and open to fraud and etc if anyone tried. But grains of truth exist in all these things.  No person is capable of 100% error, just as no one is capable of 100% truth.

The werewolf legend, of a human transforming into a great wolf, has some grains of truth in it.  This feat is related to the mechanisms involved with miracles, and with say shifting a human body into the astral, and of the ability of powerful entities to manifest in physical form.  

The fairy creatures of Ireland are also well known for materializing and dematerializing.  Fairy creatures, like leperachauns, have the ability to skip between dimensions, between fairy astral realms and the physical.

These things are, however, very rare.  I only know a small handful of people who have actual experience with such things, so it is not surprising that most people disbelieve in them.  

In closing, I suggest people keep an open mind about such things, that's all.

Take care, Robert.

After ten years of inactivity Ive started to go bike riding first thing in the morning before first light . But bugger that Id rather die of a  heart atack than a werewolf .

sk

Wow!  Where shall I begin???

Now correct me if im wrong..
So the werewolf is a human and/or spirit.
The wear wolf has great appetite? So great that it could eat a
whole human being? Thus, no corps is usually left after a wear wolf
attac because the werewolve has eaten the WHOLE body...

Hm.. so what part of the werewolf exactly is it that needs human flesh?
Is it the man part of the wolf? In my humble knowledege wery few
people could eat there own weight in flesh... If any human could eat that
amount of flesh, they would hardly be able to move afterwards..
Not even the lion can run after eating a big meal, not even a lion
can eat its own weight. Only the snake can eat its own weight, but after
doing this it has to lie around digesting for some weeks.
And seemingly the werewolf being SO HUNGRY can eat many humans..
Is it the astral part of the wolf?  - dose a astral beeing need material flesh to
gain strengh??? Is it even possible for an astral beeing to "eat" mater??

"I have told that to many people and I could tell many more things that I have experienced. Everyone rationalizes it away if possible because no one wants to believe that such things can exist or happen to anyone. If it could happen then it might happen to them. "

The reason that many of us doubt the existence of werewolves is not fear,
as you imply Nita.. it´s healthy scepticism... The comment on your part makes
me disbelive your story even more though.. sorry.

The late Dion Fortune had a more convinsing theory about werewolfs.
A human that has died, but feels like lingering around on the material plain
for a while longer might take (posses) a animal body, a dog or wolf for example. When the dog gets killed by suspicious people who feel that there is something wrong with it, that it is evil or has gone mad, the human spirit uses the last part of the life energy of the dog to make a short manifestation as it leavs thedead dog. People se this ghost rising from the dog, and voila! There you have the origin of the wear wolf legend!

The concept of mixing the physicall and the astral in the way that some have done her really scares me...  Pleas let it be either a human who has the ability to hypnotise its victims, or let it be a demon that can manifest as a materila beeing.  Or let it be a human possesed by a deamon- BUT pleas do not talk about a human being actually physically transforming its body into another physicall form..

I belive that ther might be werewolfs – but in that case I would in the rather choos Dion Fortunes explenation of them... nut the weird taken from a cheap horror movie Concept of a human who can mutate at will.

Why don't belive in Heeman, Superman, Spiderman, Dragons, Elfs, Gobblins,
Giants, Ents, Dwarfs, and all other beings taken from any fantasy, horror or comic.

There is an old belife about something called "tomtar" and "vettar" here in Sweden, they are something like smal dwarfs suposedly living around houses protecting  them. You have to do some sacrefices to them in order to keep them happy,or other wise thay get nast and mess the place up. The tradition is that you put out some food to them on some special days.
Of course, no one ever dose this any more, and no one belives in these creatures any more.. except some occultist that belive that the legend is about earth spirits or elementals.
The point is this, they don´t really eat the food that is put out to them.. the house cat probably dose that- it´s the gesture that counts. No sain person would belive that they are real physicall beings. They might mainfest and show them selfes sometimes, or people who
are psychic could perhaps se them..

This was just meant as a paralell to the werewolfs.

I have to ad that it is good to take a look at basic psychology, and see that all things experienced or seen dosn´t have to be true.. there is a greta power in fantasy, and even stronger so if mixed with the right amount of fear...or supersticion.

I have an open mind, and if any of you out there beliving in this wild werewolf  theory can explain the theory abit better and more logicall, perhaps I could belive
in it- but I cannot belive in it just like that...

The strangest thig still was this comment by Rober Bruce:

"No bodies are ever found after a werewolf attack, re a werewolf has a huge appetite and can usually consume several humans at a time."


This was just too much for my skeptic mind..

Pleas explain how such a strong metabolisim in a human body is possible- pleas!

Be blessed!


-- Love is the Law - Love under Will --

(note - this is all theory but has some sound bases in facts)

Distant Bell: Consider that matter is, both physical and astral, simply energy vibrating at different rates (eg famous Einstein e=mc²). There are also forms of energy, like ectoplasm, which vibrate at a rate between the two - visible to the naked eye, with some physical properties but able to be molded by thought, say visualisation. Now all of these forms of energy are interchaneable, this is basically how things can be dematerialised or rematerialised, by increasing their rate of vibration out of, or into, the physical world. I believe this has been shown in lab conditions by people experimenting with advanced quantum physics, but don't have any solid links for you am afraid. Now, magickians and such with enough skill can do this themselves, as can many entities (eg angels, strong negs, etc). So, if they can dematerialise objects - why not their own bodies? This would take much more energy and power to accomplish, but should be possible.
So! All that you need to do is dematerialise your own body, mold it into a different shape, and then rematerialise in that form. Voila werewolk, were-coyote or perhaps in africa a were-tiger.
And, if you can dematerialse yourself, why not do so with a dead body, turn it into a more raw form of energy, and absorb it? This has nothing to do with having a lightning-fast digestive process! Also a dead body will likely have residual pockets of life energy left not taken by the departed spirit, which again can be fed off.
Alternatively as I suggested earlier, a more powerful neg eg demon is involved, who carries out the whole dematerialisation/reforming/rematerialision process on the weaker human. It could then take a "cut" of the energy released from the dead bodies. Perhaps it even takes control, allowing the human spirit to experience the thrills of being at the top of the food chain.

Finally, I would like to add that I seriously doubt there would be as many heavily sceptical people out there if it wasn't for the fact that so many films have been made about werewolves. This causes people to attribute such things solely to the realms of "fantasy". If you can believe in (the possibility of) demons which can manfest, then a werewolf really isn't that big a step.
As Don Juan (Carlos Castaneda?) wrote "sorcerers say we should need no one to convince us that the world is infinitely more complex than our wildest fantasies" (just read that 30 minutes ago, quite apt - no, I am not a sorcerer!)

But in the end.....I dunno, never seen one, can only guess.

Inguma-
Yeah, you have soem points, but, and this is my majour but, I still don´t belive it!  (lol- just kidding..)

But seriously, I have read about so many rituals, and read so much by the heavy occultists like Crowley and his kin, and never have I ever heard about this fenomenon of transforming flesh into astral matter/energy.. and I think that it should have been more commonly known if it really worked. The other thing is this- dose the human transform totaly into an semi astral beeing, or is the human still there with a wordly body that is modified? Why oh god WHY would such an higly developed human/spirit runing around on the physicall plane slaying its pray like som primitive wolf??

But as I said- I´m open for the possibility!
.. but stil wery sceptical about the thing with eating many bodys... after al there has to be some wierd process involved that dose the transformation from matter to energy.. and in that case why not "eat" a more sloid matter like metal, or perhaps plants- why exactly humans?

Tatta!

-- Love is the Law - Love under Will --

Well, hey...if anyone here ever finds out just how one could physically shapeshift, please do let me know--I promise to eat only deer, or maybe cows.

You know, with such a huge proportion of the were community in search of the elusive p-shift (physical shift), you'd think someone would have mentioned this whole dark ritual thing....but no one has.

Not even the alleged p-shifters.  Most consider shifting to be a benevolent spiritual sort of thing.
How do Native American folks accomplish it?  That's where you hear most of the stories of physical shifting, on this continent (USA).
They're certainly not doing it via demonic possession.

No, I don't think evil maneating p-shifting werewolves are real.  I don't think demons physically manifest either--I think they can make it seem like they do, but I don't think they can actually become matter.


--Winged Wolf
"I will stare at the sun until its light doesn't blind me, and I will walk into the fire, 'til its heat doesn't burn me, and I will feed the fire...."

Greetings all,

I find it quite amusing that so many people here believe in spirits, demons, healing, p-shifting (whatever that is), OBEs and so many other things yet for some reason a werewolf is a flat out impossibility.

This seems to contradict basic logic.  I mean, you're either a "normal" human and believe only in what science can prove, or what religion says (and even religion has it's own tails of resurection and GODs appearing out of nowhere), or you're.. well one of us - Mostly people who have had at least one "supernatural" type of experience which has changed their whole belief system.

If you ask the average folk if they believe in OBEs and also if they believe in werewolves, they'd probably laugh just as hard at the idea of either one.

Being a very skeptical/scientific minded person myself who has had several OBEs, I can only tell you that I no longer negate 100% anything that people tell me.  Sure there will be a story now and then that just is waaay out there, but even my scientific mind says "if you can't disprove it, then you can't negate it either"... and my spiritual experiences tell me "the universe is mental, the ALL is mental". There are possibilities that are far, FAR beyond my greatest imagination!

As for whomever posted that they do not believe that it is possible to "teleport" objects, lifeforms into the astral and then back to the physical plane, they must not have done very much research in the occult area (or at least the appropriate occult area).  

If you read "Autobiography of a Yogi", you will find the author describing his direct experiences with many saints. Here's just a few of these in point form:

- The perfume saint - one who could materialize the smell of any flower as strong as any perfume we can buy in local stores
- The "Breatharian" saint who didn't eat - she lived over 40 years of her life on mere "thin air". In reality it had to do with a specific type of Yoga she was taught by a Master who appeared to her in the physical (yes from the astral).
- The Saint with Two bodies - He could physically materialize another "copy" of himself elsewhere on earth and interact with people.
- The Levitating Saint - (self explanatory)
- The Sleepless Saint - (self explanatory)

There were also stories about certain Yogis who like Christ could materialize food out of "thin air", or "teleport" themselves and even other people around them to anywhere on Earth. Btw, this book is not about some guy trying to brag about his mystical experiences, but rather, it is a very enlightning spiritual book, filled with so much love that I can not stop but to feel joy and smile when I pick it up to read. I would recommend it to anyone. It is a truly pleasurable reading experience.

I could go on, and this is just one such book, there are many others that depict the very same or similar types of occurances. Heck even the bible talks about ressurection - if you believe that,why rate warewolves so far off the chart?

Why do we believe the seemingly impossible and then turn around and deny the possibility of something else ?

My very best to all of you!!

PS. You silver members are lucky to have them silver ninja stars to throw at the werewolves! I'll have to spam a whole lot more before I can get such lucky stars ;-)

-
Adept of Light

"He who pursues the goal of evenmindedness, is neither jubilant with gain, nor depressed by loss" - Paramahansa Yogananda

Greetings Adept of Light!

You make some exceptional points, that I cannot really add anything to.

However, werewolves exist I am sure, but not in the Hollywood sense.

Shape-shifting is real (in my opinion), and various Magicians, Adepts, Shamens etc. are capable of it. I believe that it is highly likely that werewolves could be black magicians, taking an animalistic form to do their work.

And as for:

quote:

---

There were also stories about certain Yogis who like Christ could materialize food out of "thin air", or "teleport" themselves and even other people around them to anywhere on Earth.

---

.

Absolutely correct - Sathya Sai Baba is just such an example. You can ask Robert Bruce about Sathya Sai Baba, he has quite literally materialised from another plane as a real flesh and blood like person (also called an Avatar) before Robert  on at least one, and I believe several occasions. Sathya Sai Baba has been associated with "miracles" of the type usually associated with the person known as "Jesus" from a couple of thousand year ago.

With best regards,

Adrian.

Very interesting...

          I had an encounter back when I was 22.  I was at home watching Johnny Carson one night. I got up and headed to the bedroom, sat at the edge of the bed to make sure the alarm clock was set correctly. I heard my closet door open up, I looked to see what the heck was doing this.  Something black came out very fast and hit me square in the chest, I fell back onto the bed.  This weird kind of animal was sitting on me and shaking me at the shoulders with its arms. I couldn't get him off me, and I couldn't move or speak.  It looked like a small 4 foot tall Bigfoot, hairy with long arms, but the face looked more like a wolf or bear mixed, with red eyes. It was screeching and very ticked off !!   Finally it stopped, it looked towards the closet, and jumped off my chest and ran at full speed back into it.

I just layed there thinking...  What did I do?   Is there some kind of secret door inside my closet?  How do I keep this thing from coming back?

What is really strange is:   I was wide awake!  I wasn't really tired. I was just watching a comedy show on TV.   And something like this ever happening, never crossed my mind.

But I do believe it really happened. But what that thing was, I don't have a clue.    ...I do feel that was its regular form.

                    Nightflier...

Adrian-

Now I realy get nerves.. did you just mention Sai Baba????????
I hope you meen some other guy then the indina "miracle man".

Sai Baba is the fraud of the century... he alos a bit of a sexual pervert
who abuses joung men.. his adepts..
When he was confronted with the accusations from one of the kult
members he just replied - "Swami is pure."
Conversation over..

And for his materialisations... I have seen them on tv... you have to be
blind NOT to see that he pulls out the giddy things he "materializes" from his
sleews or from underneath the chair he is sitting in..

Pleas Adrian, take a net search on Sai Baba, and re think your opinion on him, I have to say that in his case I don´t think it´s false accusations... sadly..

Adept of light-

I think there is a greta difference between spirits, oobes, magick and werewolfs....

And for the book you mentioned- I have to say I´m scepticall until I have seen it with my own eyes..  There are so many people who come up with the wildest storeis and somehove manage to get people to belive in them.
The fact that these people are saints makes it even more suspicious,
saints always get such powers atributed to them.. because they are saints.
just go to any NEW AGE book store and take a look at what kind of ideas some wackos actually have.. about dolpihins, aliens, conspirasys (spelling).
New age book stores seems to be just another meeting place for the lunatics
and wierd people.. and of course some normal persons to, but they pick there books with som critisism..

If I would have found any account of werewolfs in any of the books written by the really great magickans of our time, then I would have belived in it. But I have not done that. The belife in werewolfs seem to me like a new age thing- just belive in something no matter how wierd without any logic explanation or proof.

But as I said befor- who knows, the universe is indeed a wery starnge and wounderfull place...

Be blessed!

-- Love is the Law - Love under Will --

Greetings Distant Bell!

I don't have an opinion regarding Sathya Sai Baba, because, aside from what Robert Bruce tells us from his own personal experiences of such materialisations before himself, in his own house, and which I have no reasons to doubt, I know almost nothing about him.

Note: Please see the article on N.E.W for the account of Robert's own experience:

http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/portal_articles.asp?catid=5&cattitle=Energy&area=

The quote from the article is as follows:

"Later that evening while revising my original notes (a few hours after making the initial discovery) Sathya Sai Baba, materialised before me in my office. As far as I am aware, he is the worlds only currently living, flesh-&-blood, avatar.

I was sitting alone, gazing blankly at my notes while I pondered the normous implications of my new discovery. Suddenly, and for no apparent reason, the dimensional veil rent and the brilliant-silver light of high-level spirit plane energy flooded the room. Sai Baba stepped out of this light and materialised in front of me, solid and life sized. He beamed at me, smiling and gesturing animatedly towards me, as if saying: "Now you've found it what are you going to do with it? Baba stayed visible only for about thirty seconds, but this event had a lasting effect on my work, not to mention upon myself, greatly encouraging me."

Many people do regard Baba as a genuine Avatar, with great capabilities, and which prompted me to investigate further - but, as you say, opinions do vary widely as to who are what he is, and whether he is genuine or not.

From my own perspective, Sai Baba is just a person I am aware of, but have no further interest in whatsoever from my own perspective. Maybe if he suddenly materialised before me, I would alter my position somewhat

But in general terms, as Adept of Light articulated extremely well, in these, as in most matters, it is well to be open minded, and, most importantly, formulate positions based on personal experience, rather then the opinions of others. Your own truth is the real truth.

With best regards,

Adrian.

here´s a link-  www.saibabaexpose.com

Of course, sai baba might be a avatare even though he abuses people
sexually, and makes alot of fake tricks...  I guess, after all these two things
do not contradict one another.

He might do his fake manifestations just to blind the eyes of the ignorant,
It dosn´t mean that he dosn´t posses real powers.. but I still doubt it.

Wery few "enlightet" people gather that great crowds around them.

If Bruce belives in both Sai Baba and Werewolfs... then I don´t know if
I can belive in everything the good man says anymore.

But who knows, I might be wrong on this one too!

Perhaps there are werewolfs that actuall behave like the above given description, and perhaps Sai Baba is a real avatar..
Though both things would surprise me!

Bless ya al!

-- Love is the Law - Love under Will --

Greetings Distant Bell!

quote:

---

Originally posted by distant bell:

Wery few "enlightet" people gather that great crowds around them.

If Bruce belives in both Sai Baba and Werewolfs... then I don´t know if
I can belive in everything the good man says anymore.

-- Love is the Law - Love under Will --

---

Well the person known as "Jesus" apparently drew fairly substantial crowds around him a couple of thousand years ago. He was almost certainly a Master, just like several others before and after him who incarnate from time to time.

I do not know Robert Bruce's position on werewolves, but his belief of Sai Baba is not just from reading about him, or from being told by someone else, but by virtue of the fact that Sai Baba apparently materialises right out of the ether, and directly into Roberts home as a real flesh and blood Avatar.

As I said before, I don't know much about Sathya Sai Baba, and have no inclination to find out more, but you have to admit that he certainly fits in well with this subject of "Tangible entities".

As for werewolves - to say they do not exist, would be to say that anything beyond the physical or "normal" does not exist. The other planes and worlds are vast, and the abilities of both white and black Magicians can also be vast.

Werewolf legends abound as do Faeries, Dragons, Unicorns and so on - what is your position on them?

With best regards,

Adrian.

Hi Adrian!

Well, for Jesus.. I don´t know If I belive al about him either- the texts about his life where written down after his death, by people who had the intention of showing him of as a god... So I wouldn´t put to much truth into that.
I think that a great part of the bible is pure fiction-
Of course Jesus could be seen as a symbol, just like all other created symbols for the universe, like isis, nuit, hadit etc etc.

But enought about that..

Well, I have seen a loong documentary about Sai Baba- alot of the material
was video shots of him.. so I have seen him "materialise" things..
Of course he might still be an avatar.. even if he dose frauds too.

If Robert claims that he has seen Sai Baba- then he probably has seen
something looking like Sai Baba, but that dosn´t have to mean that it really was him.. Butn of course it could wery well have been Sai Baba standing
there befor him in the room.

I have no intention of accusing Robert Bruce, but you have to see it from
my perpspective- I have only read his books and posts on the net, but never
meet him personally, so I cann´t know what kind of person he really is.

From what I have read from him this far I can only say that I belive him to have
great knowledge, and that he seems to be a wise man.. but then I don´t even belivein everything that Crowley sais, and he is sort of like my house god!
So you see, scepticism is wery deep roted in me.

But, put it like this, I would never have belived Sai Baba to be a real thing.
But now after hearing that Bruce belives in him, I start to consider the
possibility.. after all, someone enlightened enough can do and behave as he pleases.. someone that enlightend knows that life is just one great theater.

I think that Jesus if he existed, was a real kick as guy!

-Never trust a profet that dose only good, for then he is a fraud-

I am sorry if I have stepped on any toes...

Bless ya all



-- Love is the Law - Love under Will --

II get the feeling that evil is a creation of mans thoughts and actions. Itdoes not come from God .From what Robert says when haveing an OBE you can will a sword to be in your hand and there it will be.So if youcan do that on the astaralplain You could do it here . Then maybe the werewolf is created when  masses of  people go out on a full moon they think  and dwell upon such horrors and behold  you have your beast . Think about It millions of people would see that moon and feel those fears . That would draw alot of negative energy. Especially children . Myfriends and myself used to scare the crap out of are selfs onfullmoons ,all in good fun.If the power of prayer is stronger with more people then . Who knows what we bring onto our selfs.
O ye the  Sia Baba thing Idont know much about him but I read a book regarding his teachings and Itsgreat stuff I agread With his believes

sk

Originally I didn't want to say anything to that whole werewolf thread... the only results that will probably come from this discussion here is that a lot of people start modifying their belief systems and get afraid or something (or get their paranoia reduced - whatever).

I don't think you'd find that in any book lying around in your local eso-bookstore or even amazon. There's things people don't write down on purpose. About that general shapeshifting thing: you can find that in books if you look in the right ones, the basic technique was already stated by Robert above. But i highly doubt anyone browsing these boards (including me) can do this.

About Sai Baba: A close relative of mine, who is neither blind, nor stupid, visited him recently and told me of some of the things he saw. Some aren't explainable by physics, not even with the greatest imagination availible. I have no reason to doubt my relative there.

Please keep in mind, that every person in a higher position gets thrown various kinds of dirt at him. Especially if he's NOT a fake, as this means, in the religious area, that he's a threat to some nonauthentic cults.

Do you think just because he's an Avatar (if he is one), this wouldn't happen?
You think he would just stop this, so people don't have to think for themselves and make decisions ?

All the best

Florian
(who's really not into sai baba stuff usually...)

I have this problem- All wierd groups claim to have the truth,
be it Falun Gong, hare Krishan, The vittneses of Jehova, every
wierd New Age cult- And all of them "know someone who has seen it happen.."  

So should I belive every thing?

I only know what I saw in the documentary about Sai Baba-
That´s all.

And I was not kidding when I said that a true enlightene person would behave unlike a saint- just look at uncle Al!  He is the only true "enlightened" person of history that I can think of!  And he behaved like the society was one big joke..

So there you have it!  I say that Crowley is the prophet of the new aion..
And you guys say that Sai Baba is the only avatar!

Well, well-

Bless ya al

-And may this silly discussion perishe with the dogs-

Felix

-- Love is the Law - Love under Will --

Greetings Distant Bell!

quote:

---

Originally posted by distant bell:
I have this problem- All wierd groups claim to have the truth,
be it Falun Gong, hare Krishan, The vittneses of Jehova, every
wierd New Age cult- And all of them "know someone who has seen it happen.."  

So should I belive every thing?

---

That is a matter for you to decide of course.

But in my opinion,  the best way is to remain open minded, respect the positions and views of others, however far out they may seem to you, and only consider true that which you know to be true from your own personal experience.

quote:

---

And I was not kidding when I said that a true enlightene person would behave unlike a saint- just look at uncle Al!  He is the only true "enlightened" person of history that I can think of!  And he behaved like the society was one big joke..

So there you have it!  I say that Crowley is the prophet of the new aion..
And you guys say that Sai Baba is the only avatar!

---

If as a Thelemite (presumably) you like to believe that of Crowley, then you are perfectly entitled to do so.

Don't expect me to spell Magic with a "k" on the end though

But as you are so keen on web sites and documentaries, you might like to take a look at this:

http://www.channel4.com/history/microsites/M/masters_darkness/crowley.html

I saw this program, and actual footage taken for the first time in his Thelemic monastery.   Most interesting from a historical point of view and an insight into this man who unquestionably left his mark one way or the other.

With best regards,

Adrian.

Hello Adrian
  I have noticed that people who are fearful people always want to not believe what someone else has seen or experienced. They do this because they are not ready to accept that such things can happen. They can have something strange happen to them and everyone else is supposed to believe it. Yet they will not give that courtesty to others.
  I don't lie about what I've seen and I don't try to impress others. I talk about my experiences and people are capable of their own judgements. I feel really sorry for people who are so incapable of a sense of sharing that they have to attack others.
  Nita

Hi Adrian!

No I would never ask for you to either spell magick with a ck, or belive
in Crowley as the propeth.

I really don´t know if I belive in Crowley in the way of the kliche enlightened either, I don´t belive in this enlightened person thing. I think that Crowley was
a man with a great knowledge who left an important heritage- and if you just look at the heritage, he has left more then any other religion... Just look at christianity- might be a good ethich conduct- but informative ?? no!

So it is in that sense I see Crowley as a "prophet" or "enlightend", that he gained great occult knowledeg and passed it on.  That he was a real pervert seems to be a fact though.. but hey- that dosn´t influence his heritage!

I have never had much left for these crowd gathering types, like Li Hongzi, Sai baba, Jesus etc. etc. Usually the say where little of substance.

Nita-

"I have noticed that people who are fearful people always want to not believe what someone else has seen or experienced. They do this because they are not ready to accept that such things can happen. They can have something strange happen to them and everyone else is supposed to believe it. Yet they will not give that courtesty to others."

I don´t think it has anything to do with fear- after al many people who choose not to belive in lets say werewolfs belive in other things such as wicked evil demons, whitch are not a too plesesnt thought either..

Bless ya al!


-- Love is the Law - Love under Will --

Hi Nita!

quote:

---

Originally posted by Nita:
Hello Adrian
  I have noticed that people who are fearful people always want to not believe what someone else has seen or experienced. They do this because they are not ready to accept that such things can happen. They can have something strange happen to them and everyone else is supposed to believe it. Yet they will not give that courtesty to others.
  I don't lie about what I've seen and I don't try to impress others. I talk about my experiences and people are capable of their own judgements. I feel really sorry for people who are so incapable of a sense of sharing that they have to attack others.
  Nita

---

I just want to say that I totally agree with you.

But it is also sad but true that while people are generally totally dismissive of the Occult/Paranormal/Spiritual experiences of others, those very same dismissive people accept the dogma's of their religions without question.

With best regards,

Adrian.

Personally, I am a bit hard pressed to believe in the existence of werewolfs though I definately leave the possibility open. However, I must agree with Felix that the main reason why people here have trouble believing in werewolfs is not because of fear but because it is much more difficult to believe in a actual physical "moviebeast" than in demons in other dimensions. I believe that negs and demons probably exists, and all that possession stuff etc. is true.  So it can't be fear that makes it more difficult to believe in werewolfs - rather, the problems that arises with it. How can a beast eat several humans? Why is sightings not more often reported? How does the actual process of shapeshifting work? etc.

So, if I claim that I've seen in a vision that a big monster like Godzilla will come and destroy Sweden in the beginning of 2003, no one would believe me. But certainly not of fear, but for the fact that the chances of it happen is slim.. indeed.

Anyway. The existens of werewolfs might very well be true - I don't think Nita lied about her experience. But there is still no need to fear them - chances are greater, i believe, that one would die in a carcrash than by a werewolf. Well, when one is standing face to face with such a beast, then I guess it's time to start fearing them. :)

Regards,
Daniel

Nita!

If you have the time, can you write down your experience with the werewolf a bit more comprehensive so Robert can put it up on the astral dynamics page. I bet it would be a great read!

Regards,
Daniel

Greetings Lostpawn!

quote:

---

Originally posted by Lostpawn:
Personally, I am a bit hard pressed to believe in the existence of werewolfs though I definately leave the possibility open. However, I must agree with Felix that the main reason why people here have trouble believing in werewolfs is not because of fear but because it is much more difficult to believe in a actual physical "moviebeast" than in demons in other dimensions. often reported? How does the actual process of shapeshifting work? etc.

---

I believe that is the problem. When people talk of demons, werewolves, vampires and so on, they immediately think of Hollywood and the Transylvannian classics

The fact is that these entities may well have legendary origins, but like so many things over the centuries, have become distorted much like that game of chinese whispers. They become glorified and enhanced to make a great story. Here in the Isle of Man, legends like that abound, and many are based upon real life happenings, which are simply not explainable in any conventional way.

Also in the Isle of Man, there are many, many old Manx cottages - some derelict now, and some still being lived in, and the vast majority of them have Elder trees growing in the garden or by the doors for protection. Even the derelict cottages still have their elder trees growing around.

I am sure that many of these entities, including the nice ones like Dragon's Unicorns and the Fae Folk, originate by portals opening up into the physical world from the Astral, allowing Astral wildlife to temporarily manifest here. Of course, people with psychic abilities and Astral sight can see some of these these entities anyway. But I am sure that these Astral portals do indeed open up from time to time, and Astral life can then manifest in the physical - this seems to happen in particular around a full moon by all accounts.

I do not believe that to be the case with werewolves. My best guess there is that werewolves are black magicians shapeshifting to the classical figure of a werewolf to carry out whatever dark deeds that have in mind.

Another name for this ability or process is Lycanthropy. Of course shape shifters also shift it other animalistic forms, hence werebears, weretigers, weredogs and so on.

I do not believe the process is as portrayed in the film "An American Werewolf in London", which is most amusing - has anyone seen it?

I am certain there is an explantion for everything, and nothing should be dismissed.

With best regards,

Adrian.

Greetings Distant Bell!

quote:

---

Originally posted by distant bell:
I
I only know what I saw in the documentary about Sai Baba-
That´s all.

And I was not kidding when I said that a true enlightene person would behave unlike a saint- just look at uncle Al!  He is the only true "enlightened" person of history that I can think of!  And he behaved like the society was one big joke..

So there you have it!  I say that Crowley is the prophet of the new aion..
And you guys say that Sai Baba is the only avatar!

Felix

-- Love is the Law - Love under Will --

---

For your interest, I just came across this article on Crowley - no comment is necessary, except to say that while you have every right to follow Crowley, and everyone I am sure respects that, you might like to re-consider doubting the word of Robert Bruce when he tells us of his accounters with Sai Baba:

http://www.occultopedia.com/c/crowley.htm

Incidentally - http://www.Occultopedia.com is an excellent site!

With best regards,

Adrian.

Hello all,

I have been having dificulty posting for a while and I wanted to add this earlier.

In the literature I have read about p-shifting I have noticed frequent reference to 'Grey' spirits. Does this ring a bell with anyone?

Also I have a really old fashion black magick ritual to become a werewolf, It is has some aspects which I consider to be well thought out ritual (although I do not practice 'black magick') and a lot of eye of newt, tounge of toad type dribble too. Im sure there would be more credible rituals out there if you were motivated to find them. But if I could please get some feedback as to wether or not it would be appropreate to post I may be able to satisfy some curiosities out there, and create a little laughter perhaps .

Veni Vidi Vici

Greetings Fenris!

quote:

---

Originally posted by Fenris:
Hello all,

I have been having dificulty posting for a while and I wanted to add this earlier.

In the literature I have read about p-shifting I have noticed frequent reference to 'Grey' spirits. Does this ring a bell with anyone?

Also I have a really old fashion black magick ritual to become a werewolf, It is has some aspects which I consider to be well thought out ritual (although I do not practice 'black magick') and a lot of eye of newt, tounge of toad type dribble too. Im sure there would be more credible rituals out there if you were motivated to find them. But if I could please get some feedback as to wether or not it would be appropreate to post I may be able to satisfy some curiosities out there, and create a little laughter perhaps .

Veni Vidi Vici

---

Go right ahead - I am sure people will decide for themselves anyway.

And after these $1M dollar OBE proof posts, not much could get more off the wall

Maybe you could start another topic though - this one has shifted a few times already!

With best regards,

Adrian.

Hi Adrian!

Thanks for the Crolwey link! It´s always a good laugh to se what people have written
about him!

From the link -

"He earned a meager living by publishing his writings. Much of his nonfiction is incoherent and jumbled, but continues to have an audience."

What can I say??  that is one way of seenig it - and I guess the people who stated this have never read on single page by Crowley.  Otherways the only explenation is that they are wery feeble minded. I on the other hand have read many pages by Crowley- and it is far from incoherent and jumbled.

These kind of statements speak for them selfes. Judge the tree by it´s fruits.

But I have to confess that I´m not really a thelemite.. I just enjoy Crowleys
writings and find them interesting and informative. They are the most intelegent books I have ever read. That´s all- no more no less, and that is what I base my opinion on Crowley on; his writings, his heritage.. not his life-
It is almoust impossible to know anything about him, as he was hated even back in his days, and now the legends about him have grown even wilder.

I don´t even know if I should belive in the book of the law... after al, who am I to know
That Aiwass wasn´t just some up to no good spirit pulling Crowleys leg?
But I still do admire the book for some of its beauty and deep truths.

" you might like to re-consider doubting the word of Robert Bruce when he tells us of his accounters with Sai Baba"

I am wery sorry if I gave the impression that I doubted that Bruce had seen Sai Baba.. I just said that perhaps it was someone looking like Sai Baba.. just a a thought..  After all who knows?

I don´t understand why this subjective article should inlfluence my thoughts about the subjuct of Sai Baba?? Did I miss any important point of the article?

By the way Adrian,
I really value your comments, and you seem to be a sympatic person,
and it would be sad to disturbe the good mood of the forum with
discussion about trivial things like this...

I guess what I´m trying to say is this, I´m not trying to attac anybody..
and If I don´t belive everyting averybody sais, It´s just because there
is deep roted sketicism in me.. perhaps to deep.. I dunno- but, and
this is´important- it´s never my intention to offend anybody.

Bless ya al!

Felix


-- Love is the Law - Love under Will --

Greetings Distant Bell!

quote:

---

Originally posted by distant bell:
By the way Adrian,
I really value your comments, and you seem to be a sympatic person,
and it would be sad to disturbe the good mood of the forum with
discussion about trivial things like this...

---

I think I have made my point!

You were very quick to doubt Robert in the matter of Sai Baba by saying:

quote:

---

If Bruce belives in both Sai Baba and Werewolfs... then I don´t know if
I can belive in everything the good man says anymore.

---

And later provided us with your link on the Sai Baba Expose.

Many could say the same about Crowley, who's word you obviously follow, based on what is said and written about him.

I don't have a view on Sai Baba or Crowley, but you cannot judge people exclusively from the written word. You have to know the truth to believe it.

With best regards,

Adrian.

I´m not a follower of Crowley!
I´m not a follower of anybody!.. I go my own way.
I just said that I enjoy Creowleys books- thats all.
I Enjoy Dion Fortunes, and Robert Bruces books to!
This dosn´t make me a follower of any of them.

And well, there are things that all of these three eminent authors say
that I just cannot belive in, in fact there are MANY things Crowley sais  that I doubt.

It´s not healthy in my opinion to belive in EVERYTHING someone say just because of whatever reson..  ther´s a word for it - fundamentalism..

It´s human to fail- and all people fail sometimes- all people can be wrong-
including me, Crowley, you and Robert Bruce.

"Error humanum est!" (SPELLING?)

Felix

!

-- Love is the Law - Love under Will --

After surfing the net on SAI BABA- I found out that there actaully seem to be more then one SAI BABA- The guy I was thinking about is a bit younger with big curly loong hair, always dressed in a bright coloured robe, who gathers big crowds of westerners in india..
Now I found another site www.saibaba.org--
And to my surprise there was another man, an old indian with short white
beard- not the same on I was talking about.

I guess we might actually have been talking about different Sai Babas..
It has come to my mind that Sai Baba actaully might be a title- not a name
as I suposed.

Pleas Adrain- check up www.saibaba.org, and tell me if this is the Sai Baba you and Robert Bruce talk about- Because in that case it´s not the same guy as I was thinking about..

The Sai baba I have been talking about is this one  www.saibabaexpose.com

Bless ya!

Felix

-- Love is the Law - Love under Will --

Greetings Distant Bell!

quote:

---

Originally posted by distant bell:

Pleas Adrain- check up www.saibaba.org, and tell me if this is the Sai Baba you and Robert Bruce talk about- Because in that case it´s not the same guy as I was thinking about..

The Sai baba I have been talking about is this one  www.saibabaexpose.com

---

Well first of all - I do not speak for Robert Bruce, and as far as Sai Baba is concerned I only know of that which Robert has written about in his publications.

I also know almost nothing about any of the Sai Baba's, and have no particular inclination to find out more.

However, from the brief time I had to read extracts from both web pages, I am sure that the Sai Baba Robert was referring to was Sathya Sai Baba - the one who is the subject of the www.saibabaexpose.com web site. The reason I say this is because the site refers to Sathya Sai Baba as an "Avatar", and mentions some of the happenings that Robert mentioned.

I am not sure of the relevance of all of this though. If Robert says that Sathya Sai Baba materialised before him, in his own home, as a flesh and blood Avatar, I for one have no reason to doubt that.  It follows therefore that if Sathya Sai Baba has that ability, then he must be capable of things that would normally regarded as "paranormal".

As I said, I have no idea about Sai Baba, and am not interested, but it is fair to say that great people are frequently the targets of a jealous minority, who, rather than aspire to such greatness, find it infinitely easier to try and drag people down to their own level by whatever means they can. Again - whether this is the situation with Sai Baba, I really have no idea, but I will finish this post with a quote from Albert Einstein which can apply generally:

Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices, but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence -- Albert Einstein.

In addition to the word "intelligence, you might equally add "abilities".

With best regards,

Adrian.

Correct me if I'm mistaken, but according to my knowledge, the Saibabaexpose saibaba is supposed to be a reincarnation of the saibaba.org saibaba, who died in 1918 (according to followers of the saibabaexpose sai baba... )

G'day Forum Folks!

Adept of light makes some good points, as do Florian and
many other posters.  

The book 'Autobiography of a Yogi' by Paramahansa Yogananda, is
one of my favorites. Its a true gem.

"A saint is a sinner who never gave up." (Sayings of Yogananda)

I do not believe the so-far unsubstantiated accusations and rumors
concerning Sai Baba.  This sounds more like 'tall poppy syndrome'
of people trying to negate his message of peace and God realization
in preference for their own contrived version of truth.

If you really want to know the truth about the world you life in, do
not believe everything you read in newspapers and magazines, or
on TV or the net.  This is often far, far from the truth.

My senses, plus my experience with Sai, tells me that he is what
he says he is. Videos can be edited and made false, and false allegations
made to seem real. It is quite possible that Sai Baba is the victim
of a conspiracy, designed to cast doubt on his work, to make him
look bad in the eyes of modern people, to stop the spread of
his message, and the increase of his millions of followers worldwide.

I have firsthand experience with powerful conspiracies, and thus
know that they can and do happen.  The information the public is given
via TV and newspapers is often false or misleading. Anyone who thinks
otherwise is naive.  Sure, some of the stories you hear
are contrived through mischief, but some are very real indeed. However,
the official reports about such things are often contrived and far
from the whole truth.

Note that it is quite amazing what an expert can do with a video tape.

I would also like to point out that if Sai Baba craved sex,
as a powerful man he would have no problems finding willing
and discrete partners.  So why would he risk everything by
interfering with his students against their will.  This does not
make any kind of sense at all. Also, note that such accusers gain
lots of publicity and attention, and are paid lots of money for
their stories.

All influential people are prone to having false allegations made
against them, and of false evidence being presented to the public via
rumor. But it is very rare for such evidence to be presented to a
court of law and substantiated. As far as I know, no formal charges
have ever been laid against Sai Baba, and none of the said allegations
have ever been proven.

Sure, it can be said that he is too powerful, and/or that the government
of India and his millions of followers are protecting him.  But this
does not prove anything one way or the other, although it can definitely
be used to add fuel to a rumor campaign and make baseless allegations
'seem' to be more real than they actually are in fact.

Note that the catholic church had a team of bishops investigate
Sai Baba thoroughly, a ten year long investigation.  The church
was worried that Sai might have been the antichrist. This investigation
was done in the 60's, I think.

This report was never released, but a press conference
was held where a Vatican official, when asked what their findings
were, replied that Sai Baba appeared to be who he said he was. They
added when pressed, that because Sai's teachings were so closely
aligned to Christian teachings, that he could not possibly be
the antichrist.

I would also like to add that Sai Baba is well into his seventies,
although he does not look it. Its strange that no allegations of sexual
abuse were leveled against him when he was younger. If he is a sexual
deviate, as some suggest, then surely this would have manifested more
strongly when he was younger and had a stronger sex drive - curious.

People might also like to take a look at what Sai Baba does with the
many millions of dollars he is given every year.  Most of this is put
into hospitals and schools for the poor. And this fact is provable.
You must admit that this does not tally with the idea of him being
a false guru type with a sex problem.

As for werewolves being real, well, I have never personally seen one, but
I have seen demons and evil spirits (call them whatever you like)
materialize in semi physical form. In this form they are capable
of affecting matter, eg, of physically harming a person or of destroying
property, etc.  So, it is only a small step from here to believing that
an entity could shape shift and appear in animal form, say as a huge wolf.
If an entity possesses a person, it is also possible that they could
transform that person's physical body, at least in part.  I have seen
this happen, but not to the extent of total physical transformation.

I would also like to add that it is well known that materialization
mediums are capable of producing enough ectoplasm to allow spirits to
semi materialize in fully visible, touchable, photographable form.
Interested people should research books by or about Helen Duncan,
Estelle Roberts, and Sir Author Conan Doyle, and Michael Bentine, to
name a few.

In the 40's, public demonstrations were given at the Royal Albert Hall, to
audiences of several thousand people, where dozens of materialized
spirits would roam the audience simultaneously, fully visible, talking
to loved ones and etc. Today, most such demonstrations are done in private.
One such group involved in materialization production and research is the
'Scole Group' (the Scole Experiment), in the North of UK.  I believe they
recently did a tour of the USA.

The below url is worth a look.

http://www.datadiwan.de/SciMedNet/library/articlesN73+/N73Knox_Scoleimplications.htm

Most mediums capable of producing ectoplasm and materializing spirits
keep their secret abilities secret, for obvious reasons. Their lives
would be over if such things became public, re they would be hounded
by press and skeptics and scientists, and believers demanding spirit
materializations to order, for the rest of their lives.

Ectoplasm has been weighed and tested by some early scientists involved
with such mediums.  However, such investigations are seldom accepted
by other scientists, then or now, no matter who does them or how
thorough they are. The above article on the Scole Group investigation
is a good example of this. Note the extreme resistance these scientists
encountered from their peers, when they tried to table their findings
after investigating the Scole Group firsthand.

It is fairly well known that a materialization medium will lose up to
40% of their body mass during such a demonstration. This has been shown
in scientific experiments where a medium is placed on a set of scales,
and the ectoplasm they produce weighed on another. It has been noted
that the scales kept a perfect balance at all times, with the weight loss
of the medium corresponding with the weight gain of the ectoplasm being
weighed on the other scale.  This is part of the reason why such mediums
traditionally use a cabinet wrapped in black cloth (re they look
ghastly), plus the great sensitivity of ectoplasm, and the medium producing
it, to white light.  Note that the Scole Group is producing heavy
physical phenomena, including photographical ectoplasm.

Helen Duncan, who was probably the greatest materialization medium of last
century, was raided by the secret service during her last public demonstration.
She was arrested for breaking the secrecy act, re some of the spirits of
deceased soldiers, sailors, etc were telling their families war
secrets, eg, where their ship was sunk, or where their battalion was or
was going, etc.  

Helen spent some time in prison after this raid, after being badly
injured when several members of the secret service, at a set time, jumped
on materialized spirits and grabbed them, only to find they vanished in
their arms.  When they turned on the lights, a great deal of ectoplasm
was destroyed, which did Helen a lot of damage.  She died several months
later, but not before winning her case in court.  As a result of this,
the 16th century 'witchcraft act' was abolished and a new 'fraudulent
medium's act' was created.

Anyway, if you really look around you'll find plenty of evidence to
support the possibility that spirits can sometimes materialize in
physical form, under the right conditions, and that human beings can
at least partially dematerialize or change their physical form.  Obviously
such tangible manifestations are rare, but they are most definitely
not impossible.  

As for werewolves eating more than their own body weight, well, this is
difficult to prove or disprove.  If true, it may be that they somehow
transform the matter they eat into subtle energy (as the physical flesh of
a materialization medium transforms into ectoplasm), rather than digesting
it as a physical being would have to.  Keep in mind that we are not
discussing a purely physical being here, but a combination of human/demon.

My earlier comment should not be taken as a statement of fact.  I have
never seen a werewolf, but know a few people who have.  I also know one
person who claims to have seen one in action, including feeding.  This
person has great integrity, and my respect, and I have no reason to
doubt their word; but they wish to remain anonymous.  I have, however,
as said, seem a number of demons and evil spirits manifest in semi solid
physical form, and etc.  I have also seen angels and other such good
spirits materialize in semi-solid form. Because of these experiences, I
am of course open-minded about the whole werewolf thing.

Some people might prefer to think of such phenomenon as being caused
by semi materializing nature spirits with PK ability, or whatever...
But how you describe such manifestations does not really matter, as this
is simply a matter of different culturally-defined terminologies being used
to describe a variety of similar phenomena.

Of note, I also believe in UFO's, fairy beings and nature spirits. See
my online article 'Cyclone Tracy' for one such experience.

As for pentagrams appearing in palms, I think some people are over reacting.
What this means is that the lines in the hand can be interpreted as forming
a pentagram on someone who has a werewolf problem. I have seen a few such palms over the years, but have no idea if these people were actually
werewolves.  This has nothing at all to do with any metaphysical symbol, or
sigil of a demon, appearing like a tattoo on someone's palm.

(A sigil is like a pictogram signature, usually related to a demon)

Folks, please be a little more understanding before jumping to conclusions
and calling people liars or etc, just because the contents of their posts
are a little unclear, or outside one's own experience or beliefs. We are
all entitled to our opinions, so please do not respond to posts unkindly,
or in confrontational ways. We can all agree to differ without being rude
to each other.

Note that I also believe in ufo's, nature spirits and fairy beings, re
I've seen quite a number over the  years.  See my online article 'Cyclone
Tracy', for an example. I am sure that in some people's minds I am quite
the crazy person because of this.  That is, until their personal experiences
opens their eyes to the truth.

My MO is to explore a hundred and one crazy ideas that no one has ever
thought of exploring. By doing this, I come across the occasional gem.


Take care, Robert.

Thank you for a wery interesting post Robert!
When it comes to UFOs I have always belived that
thy might come from another plane of existens rather
then anoother planet.. But who knows.

Al the best!

Felix

-- Love is the Law - Love under Will --

G'day!

I have only seen UFO's in real life.  But it is quite possible that some come from other dimensions.  I have encountered ET type beings out of body, and seen them clairvoyantly at times.  It pays to keep in mind that all physical beings eventually die, and thus become spirits.  So its thus understandable that some spirits will look like ET's.

Most spirit ET's I have encountered have been negative in nature.

However, I also think that some advanced ET races use the astral real time environment as a means to study and influence others.

Take care, Robert.

After having read all of the posts under this topic I am thankful for the FACT that we can know the truthfullness of anything if we search and ask God...it may take time, effort, etc. but in the end we may know anything we want to know.  Sometimes we are not ready to know or see what we desire to understand, even when we truly desire it and think we're ready...I find myself in this plight more often than not, but it is my experience that with time I come to find out what I need to DO in order to KNOW.  

Thanks for all the ideas and the respectful manner they are shared....although I sense that some of the debates are heated, I rarely see outright anger or frustration manifested here.

-DT

fides quaerens intellectum

G'day Folks!

First, I would like to make it very clear that I am not, nor have I ever been, a follower of Sathya Sai Baba.  But I still have great respect for his life and work, stand by all my earlier comments, and will thus enter the fray on his behalf.

In response to the forum critique concerning Sathya Sai Baba, which stated that he had been exposed as a sexual deviate and cult leader, and not a highly spiritual person, I went and read a number of websites linked through the said expose'.  I must admit that the evidence seems overwhelming and damning. That is, unless you read this with an open mind and critical eyes that search for truth. Do not believe everything you read on a website!  

Anyone could write a slanderous website, full of contrived confessions and allgeations concerning supposedly real life events, that are totally baseless. Unless Sathya Sai Baba got a lawyer to sue them in a court of law, no one could force the author of such a site to remove it.

I would like to point out that none of the evidence given on these websites seems to have ever been proven, and all supporting evidence and the references given are extremely vague.  So, what you are left with are a bunch of letters that read like confessions, supposedly written by people who were sexually abused at the hands of Baba, who is a man in his late seventies.

I also found at least one website that was written supposedly by a supporter of Baba, who admits that Baba may have a sex problem and that some of the allegations against him may be true, etc.  I found this page to be very, very clever, in that it was far more damning than all the rest of the slanderous websites put together.

However, through all this reading I noticed a similar style of writing being used in the allegations / confessions / critiques.  I also noted that many of the websites had a consistent look and feel to them.  Also of note, I found many of the confession/allegation letters seemed to have been written 'down'.  By this I see that they were written by a very intelligent person who was trying to sound less intelligent, more average, and or younger than their actual years.  The variations in style seem to be contrived and deliberate, but it is impossible to hide.  It is my opinion that some of these websites were created and or their content written by the same person, or the same group of people.

Two of the major critics of Baba are supposedly published authors who used to be followers of Baba, and who wrote two books or more on Baba and his work, some years ago.  They claim to have withdrawn these books for sale when they found out what a lying deviate Baba was.  The statements that these books were withdrawn from publication because of this said fact need careful examination, as this is a very big chink in the armor of these critics. This is because this so-called fact is used to support the integrity of the authors of the main websites that are slandering Baba, and this is used to support all the slanderous allegations.

If these books (books about Baba) were actually published through legally registered publishers, said authors would have signed contracts with their publishers.  Authors have NO legal rights to demand their publishers remove their books from sale.  Think about it? No publisher in their right mind would ever allow a contract clause that gave the author the right to remove it from sale.  This would be a ridiculous business practice!

The only way the above could have even the slightest substance, would be if these books were self-published, (Vanity Publishing), meaning that these authors wrote and printed and marketed their own books, without the aid of a publisher.  This, if I am right, means that these so-called authors are not actually authors.  Anyone can today write a book full of rubbish and self publish it, and laughlingly call themselves an author.  But this does not in any way make them an author.  Alternatively, it would be possible for an author to buy back the plates and rights to their books.  If said books were selling very, very poorly, this might be possible.  But I very much doubt this is the case.

Has anyone taken the trouble to research these books to find out what really happened?  Has anyone contacted said publishers (if there are real publishers involved) and ascertained how much truth is actually associated with their withdrawn from publication and sale?

I also found a continual allegation theme that Sathya Sai Baba is running a 'CULT', and using brainwashing methods to program and enslave followers to the point where they have no will of their own, etc.   This is very much like how the Branch Davidinians (Waco) were branded as a CULT by the media when everyone at Waco was killed.  (The Branch Davidinians were a legal branch of the Seventh Day Adventist church, not a cult. They had been living at Waco since around 1950, and had many leaders in this time, so were not exactly a cult.  And btw, the so called cult expert that appeared on TV, saying he'd been tracking David Koresh for over 20 years, was actually the X leader of the branch Davadinians.  He had been ousted for corruption a few years earlier by none other than David Koresh.)  If you don't smell something rotten here, and also in the Baba slander, then you may have no sense of smell.

I have also seen many pages citing so called lies that have been told by Baba. Some of these are utterly ridiculous.  One example is where some person asked him during an interview if he was ever going to get involved with the internet.  He said no, that he had no plans to do this.  But six months later an official Baba website appeared.  This is alleged to be a direct lie, told by a person who is reputed to be incapable of telling a lie.  But come on, isn't it possible that the idea of an official Baba website could have been triggered by this question, and that Baba's website was developed after the question.  Quite frankly, these allegations of lies are extremely childish, and to me are a sign of someone trying to create something out of nothing.  This, of course, only applies if said interview ever took place.

I am considering writing a major article exposing what I see to be a conspiracy, an organized public slander campaign against the life and work of Sathya Sai Baba, and everything he stands for.  This would have to be called 'The Slander of the Century'.  Careful  research and checking of the details of all these allegations will, I am sure, uncover a great many lies and half truths and distorted truths that have been twisted into slanderous allegations.

Added to this is Baba's continual refusal to answer any of these allegations. His usual reply when asked about this is: "Swami is pure -- end of conversation."  He believes that it is beneath any spiritually advanced person to answer baseless, slanderous allegations, and says all such slander should be ignored.  So it is unlikely that Baba will ever answer or challange these allegations in public.  This gives any who want to slander Baba the freedom to do and say whatever they like, regardless of truth.

I would also like to comment on the continual theme I read in the confession type letters, supposedly written by people who have been sexually abused by Baba.  In all of them, a great number of one-on-one consultations are cited.  Some of these claim to have had 20 or 40 or more private consultations with Baba.  Most, if not all, of these young men claim to be non indian, including students from Iran, Iraque, etc.  But this does not make any sense.  Getting an interview with Baba is extremely difficult. He refuses to see most Western people, especially Americans.  I think, if memory serves me, he sees only one or two Americans, including the guy who created the 'Hard Rock Caffee'.

Baba does not speak very much English, and generally needs a translator present.  So, the idea that he gives huge numbers of interviews to young students from many nations seems a bit strange.  

I also note an allegation that Baba was 'somehow' involved in the murder of a few people, who were supposedly caught invading his rooms and killed by supporters, and then shot by police after they were beaten and stabbed to death, and that this was then written off by corrupt police who then claimed to have shot them in self-defense when said men attacked them.  There is nothing on any of these websites to support these allegations, apart from the hearsay of a few people who claim they spoke to or overheard the people involved. No charges were ever laid, and the autopsies were said to have been glossed over.  Baba is said to have not been directly involved with the murders, but is said to have been there after a mob of his supporters captured the four (I think it was 4) intruders.  He is cited as saying, when the mob asked what they should do with the intruders, to have said "Do what you like with them, but don't involve me".

All of the above, if carefully examined, seems to me to amount to nothing more than a large amount of hearsay and distorted half-truths, which has been collected into one place to generate a seemingly-damning mountain of utterly baseless BS. I for one do not believe a word of it, and will continue to do so until I am presented with hard evidence to the contrary.

But under this pile of BS, one must try to seek out the 'reason' why such a conspiracy would be mounted to defame Baba.  There must be a reason.  What it is I can only guess at, but whomever is responsible seeks to ruin Baba's reputation and negate his work.  This is possibly being done in an attempt to stop the spread of Baba's followers worldwide, especially in the Western world, where Baba has several million devoted followers.

Methinks that if Jesus were alive today, he would encounter very similar slander.  I mean, I doubt that the powers that be would be able to cope with the existence of someone who continually proves the existence of spirit, and such things beyond the material universe, eg, God and etc. I wonder if Jesus would seek out a lawyer and sue his attackers.  Probably not, re he would probably just sigh and turn the other cheek and say "Forgive them father, for they know not what they do....."

Take care, Robert.

All I want to say is this Robert, whatever you do don't ever let a bit of disagreement stop you from sharing your adventures, ideas or even unproven conjecture with us. Case in point: I still get a feeling inside me that is very hard to describe everytime I read the words about the Continuance and the sword of power.

peace,
chohan

Greetings!

Let me once again quote this very famous phrase from Albert Einstein:

Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices, but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence -- Albert Einstein.

In addition to the word "intelligence, you might equally add "abilities" and/or "spirituality", and you might further add "for the good of mankind"

The point Einstein makes in his quote seems to be quite simple - whenever a person emerges who is clearly, to the people around him or generally more advanced than the average person, or has more to offer mankind, or is highly publicly spiritual etc., then sadly the inclination of the masses is sometimes to ridicule that person and/or attack them in one way or the other. Sai Baba might be one such example from what has been said here about him, the person 2000 years or so ago known as Christ could well have been another - I am quite sure the list is very lengthy indeed over the centuries.

One would hope that mankind would derive inspiration from such great people, and endeavour tp aspire to their status, but alas, the reality is often very different in that some people find it more convenient to be negative and destructive about genuinely great people and leaders and of their intentions.

I know almost nothing about Sai Baba aside from what Robert describes here, I merely wanted to quote Einstein in this context.

With best regards,

Adrian.

With regards to the earlier conversation in this topic covering manifestations of spirits, I thought some of you might be interested in the following link:

http://www.worlditc.org/

It is currently going through a major overhaul and should be finished in a couple of months, but the site deals with the use of radios and phone lines to talk to dead spirits and the use of an instrument and polariod camer to take pictures of spirits manifesting "in" humans. I haven't dealt with it in depth, but that is the general gist.

RB, if you do indeed go ahead with your article on Sai Baba I would be interested in helping with research etc.

- Ashfo

Greetings Ashfo!

Interesting work!

What about the use of modern digital cameras which seem to be able to capture images of subtler bodies and energies  - e.g. orbs? I assume that the ability of digital cameras to do this is due, in part at least, to the speed and resolution involved, and the capture in digital memory rather than photographic film format?

Below is a such a digital photo, with orbs clearly present.

With best regards,

Adrian.

Could this be the longest astral thread ever!? Have you ever seen a topic of conversation evolve so much before? I love it!

Veni Vidi Vici

Hi Adrian
  That is a great picture. Where did you take it?
      Nita

Greetings Nita!

quote:

---

Originally posted by Nita:
Hi Adrian
  That is a great picture. Where did you take it?
      Nita

---

Actually it is from a friend of Robert's - in fact Robert sent it to me.

I am sure if you contact Robert, he would be pleased to tell you more about it, and/or put you in touch with the photographer.

I have seen several orbs photo's, and they are all similar - there is no doubt at all to me that digital camera's can "see" these things.

Best regards,

Adrian.

G'day!

This pic was taken by Zufo, our new webmaster.

You can email him for more details on webmaster@astralpulse.com

Apparently, the growing use of digital cameras is providing lots and lots of orb shots.  It is said that digital cameras take in more of the spectrum, including some infrared and ultraviolet.  This means they are generally more sensitive, especially those cameras with night vision ability.

Take care, Robert.

G'day Folks!

Thanks Ashfo, as I am snowed under with work and life's little problems and distractions, I would greatly appreciate any help with the research, which  would amount to a counter expose' or the Baba expose'.  

If anyone has the url of an official Baba site, or better a contact email for one of his representatives on the net, please fwd it to me.  I would like to find out 'their' side of the story as well.

Take care, Robert.

thanks Robert for sharing what you know , just the stuff you mentioned about werewolves and demons shows that anything is possible in this world . Consesus reality makes us believe that the world is practically flat as a board and theres nothing to it but I think anything can exist or be done. I starting to experiment with meditating and seeing what can be done through thought while in a trance . shapeshifting is REAL . I was experimenting in trance using energy and giving commands to change the shape of my body was testing this on my shoulder blades and ribs (i have kinda line backer body and wanted to shrink it down for reasons of my own) I had 20' inches across from shoulder blades and now their 16' !! and my rib cage is little bit smaller. Im doing experiments like these to become more adept in Mystic and Magick affairs . I even want to try teleportation and things most ppl couldnt believe to be real . Im still learning as I go I pray to thy gods for help and I also ask my spirit guide for advice as well. course im not sure how Id  use thought and energy to teleport thats something im only begun to imagine.

           But between Silvia Browne and what you have wrote Robert it has helped me greatly in advancing spiritually . thanks

Most dear is fire to the sons of men,
most sweet the sight of the sun;
good is health if one can but keep it,
and to live a life without shame.
(Odins words from The Havimal , chapter on The wisdom for wanders and the Counsel Of Guests , verse 63)

Robert,

The official Sathya Sai Baba website is:

http://www.sathyasai.org/

and the USA website is;

http://www.sathyasai.org/organize/z1reg01/contents.html

There are contact details in that latter address.

You might also try;

Sai World
P.O. Box 7722
San Diego, CA 92167, USA



Currently I'm looking around for rescources, reading the sathyasaiexpose website, Ted Powells report (which is seriously flawed) and composing a draft letter which I will send to Ted.

I'm also seriously busy atm; I'm in the middle of exams which end next Tuesday.

Hopefully then I'll have a bit more free time.

- Ashfo

G'day Ashfo!

Thanks for your help.

I don't think that writing to Baba's critics will do much good.  But it will be interesting to see if you get any replies, and if they do reply their comments can be used.

My plan is to gather as much information and truth as I can, and then create a counter Baba expose' website.  This will clearly offer the alternative viewpoint, and all the counter information, to present the truth as best we can find.  I will list this under the same key words the expose sites use, so when the subject is searched the counter site will appear high in the search result list. This is the very least we can do.  And who knows where this will lead.

Take care, Robert.

I know believe that videos can be faked, but damn those are pretty convincing..
Its not like the objects are blurry or undetailed either =(

But even if he faked the materializations and admitted to it publicly, but declined the molestation accusations, I would believe him then.  Seriously...those stories dont add up at all...they seem pretty poorly written to. (not that Im one to judge with my lack of grammer ha)
but yeah


/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/You must try some of my purple berries.
I've been eating them for 6 or 7 weeks now, haven't got sick once.
Prolly keep us both alive.
/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/

I intend to write more of a report-style letter in reply to Ted Powells Report which I've discovered is a rather well-known piece of anti-Sai material.

The expose website, in my opinion, pales in comparison to Powells report (labelled as "How Sai Cheats" or some such at the very top of the left frame on expose website).

Grenade, those movies, to me, show nothing fake occuring. I'm not sure if you're referring to them being faked in terms of creation of the ash or in terms of being altered to appear to be fake for purposes of condemning Sai.

It does seeem like a strange thing to be posted on an anti-Sai website.



- Ashfo

Im saying I do not believe the movies were manipulated to make him look like he is cheating.  They look very convincing ... I believe Ive seen even clearer movies before in the past...before I realized it was this guy.. I mean Im pretty sure it was him, and the movies also showed him cheating.  Its very obvious when he switches hands with the objects..
I dunno.. Id like to believe its real though, I really would.

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I must look at the movies again...

I see nothing change hands..

- Ashfo

I think, also, I may have seen something on TV which had much clearer videos.
It was a while back, but It had to have been him, because he's the only religious leader I know of that says he can materialize objects out of thin air.



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WARNING------------------------------------------------------------WARNING

          I was told last night by a secret message that the DALEKS are invading Earth , I repeat The DALEKS are going to invade Earth  we must warn the Doctor right away course not the doctor before the 2nd or The Doctor after the 6th but we need the Doctor that was before 5th and not the one after the 5th . also Earth supplies of hamdingers are in greeeeeat peril The Daleks said they will take worlds hamdingers supply or they will exterminate !

      also on BBC 2 the doctor after the 3rd said he doesnt like being ignored by great novelists . Thank you and BBC 2 shall never be posting again

Thank you
and God bleeeess
(quote from red skeleton)

Uhm...Right

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I base what I have said about Sai Baba on an danish dokumentary..
Danish tv has the habbit of showing wery interesting documentarys about "spiritula" stuff. once they follow some sick people to a christian preacher who was travelling through denmark, and had services, and claimed that he could exorcises diseases with the help of jesus...
And they followed i think two people who whent to the meating, and in american fashion got there deamons exorsised under quite spectaulary forms. The interesting thing is that they actually got HEALTHY and the cemarat team followed them to the doctor three months later and the doctor said that it was a coincidence but that they had self heald-and that sometimes happen...

What I am trying to say is this- the way the danish media handles these things is usually WERY open and objektive. Thay intervued Bada followers from denmark in this documentary.

There is a wery interesting movie about the german Mezmer - the guy who used hypnotism and workd with human magnetism. In the movie he fakes some manifestations to cure peoples diseases. He dose fake manifestations in order that people shall belive in him, and thus cure themselfe with mental power. So even if some of Sai Babas materialisations are fake- this dose not have to mean that all are it, or that he is a fake. He  might have wery good reasons for doing them- one reason would be to strenghten peoples belife without using to much of his ectoplasma. Why go to mor trouble than nessecary?

And the sex accusations?... he might have good reasons to do that to..
After all, all I have heard is that he has smeard some oil on the  genitals of the desiples.. and he didn´r force anybody- they all let him do it.. if someone would disagre he would not force them to do it..

Things are not always blck or white..
The things we consider to be moral or right might be quite different from
another point of wiev! after al, why shouldn´t an avatar do the things
Sai Baba is acused for? It´s all just cultural...

-- Love is the Law - Love under Will --

I agree though.. He could be fabricating the things to make others have more faith in the rest of what he does. (kind of like a jesus turns water into wine type thing)  and what he does sexually is his own thing

But
while it doesnt make me turn my back on him
and the possibility that he is really this great man
..it doesnt exactly make me interested in listening to what he has to say
you know what I mean?



I really do hope he is legit though..I hate to see people devote themselves to something like this and be let down, because spirituality like that is a great thing.

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Hi all, this sure is a long forum

About the case of paedophelia and sex abuse, I don't like to be sounding too heavy here but has anybody thought about the role of 'power' in sexual abuse? I know that I will come across as the 'professional smart arse' and I may not be very popular but I think something needs to be said. I know nothing of Sai Baba, I have nothing against him and have no ax to grind, but I do honour 'truth'.

To begin I will state my position and where I am coming from, I am a registered psychologist, and the stories I read on the Sai Baba exposed web site sounded pretty familiar to what I have heard from abused children and adults.

The common theme in sexual abuse, especially of minors, is that there is a 'power differential'. When one person has age, strength, sexuality and authority in a relationship there is the potential for abuse to occur.

In the letters I read there was an obvious thread of 'authority'. This is the most common theme in religious sexual abuse cases whereby the Priest uses his position of Godly Authority to perpetuate acts of abuse on the minors in his care.

The common theme for the victim is that they did not understand what was going on and felt guilty for being part of the 'assault'. The experience of 'victim guilt' has been well documeted in the psychology literature. This means that even though they did not initiate the act the victim felt guilty and blamed themselves for being attractive or of being the 'cause' of it. They also felt that because they respected and worshipped their abuser, they were unable to say 'no'. The abuser held power over the minors by the authority bestowed on them by the church and therefore by 'God'.

Ask those people who were abused by the church and went to Bishop Hollingworth, our new Governor General, for help whether they felt that they had the power to stop the abuse?

OK, I know that many of the letters were written by adults, men who were old enough to say no, to stop the alleged abuse. But again the situation is one of power and authority. Each letter stated how they could not believe that one so they respected as a God could have such base sexual thoughts while massaging his devotees genitals. His 'authority', an Avatar no less, provides him with the power to do as he wishes with little to fear in retribution.

It also sounds like the current situation in the USA in which, 40 years later, we are hearing how Bishops and other leaders of the Catholc Church are finally being found to have hidden records and evidence of rampant sexual abuse.

I just wanted to get some sanity back into the forum.

Astralc

www.shoal.net.au/~astralc

The thing about the sexual abuse accusations (from the ones that I've read)  They all seem as if they were written by the same person, and they never seem to list like any specific charges.  Just a story from someone who heard it from someone else type thing.  Like as far as Ive seen, there is nothing that says like Mr. Joe Schmoe is making these claims and doing this or that about it or you can contact him or read about his story from his words.

Those cases I read about read like fiction.
I would like whoever is doing the investigating to investigate that a bit..because thats what I find more curious.

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Well I just visisted a relative of mine today who was with sai baba this year and had a look on two of his materialized things... that ashes and something called amrith (or so)

The ashes smelled of sandalwood, so I guess that's their basis

That amrith stuff is some liquid which moves about as fast as thin honey and it smells of soap... my relative got this stuff right out of an amulet that kept oozing this amrith all the time.

I just thought I'd share this, in case someone's interested

Could it have been a Bargest or Barguest the spectral dog well documented in the UK?........it is usually seen as a premonition of a death........maybe the Werewolf is a better option!!!!!

this is my first post....I'm just wetting my feet

Alchimiste

Grenade,

A man named Hari Sampath filed an official complaint to the Indian Bureau of Investigation about Sai Baba.

http://www.sathyasaivictims.com/govt_cbicomplaint.htm


:)


- Ashfo

Hey Ashfo- that was some fun reading- but where on earth did you find it??
It dosn´t seem like the kind of thing that one stumbled over accidentally..

Felix

-- Love is the Law - Love under Will --

Well.....good work ashfo
I have nothing else to say ;-)

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G'day Folks!

As said, I have read just about everything on the net concerning the allegations against Sathya Sai Baba, and have commented on this in another post. I have yet to see one shred of credible evidence.  There are also, as previously said, serious flaws in many of the allegations and  'expose' stories online, and although some 'seem' like they contain real-life formal compaints to the authorities, it would be extremely difficult for anyone to verify if these are actually real documents or not.  So, in all fairness, everything on the net posted against Baba must be considered unsubstantiated hearsay.

I have contacted the Sathya Sai Baba in the USA, and had some conversations with officials, concerning what they consider to be the ongoing anti Baba propaganda war.  They will not openly comment on the allgations because they have a direct order from Sathya Sai Baba to ignore the slander, which has been in force for several years at least.

Sathya Sai Baba's two main comments when queried about this are:

1. Swami is pure.

2. When you did a big hole, you will always get a big pile of dirt next to it.


I would have to say that the action of 'turning the other cheek', which is recommended by Sathya Sai Baba to all his supporters and devotees when faced with such allegations, does not sound like the action of an international criminal or sexual deviate.

In closing this conversation, I would also have to say that the experience I had with Sathya Sai Baba, where he materialized before me (I was awake and my eyes were wide open) does not support said allegations to be real.  The ability to do such a thing is a highly advanced spiritual act.  I would have put it down to wishful-thinking causing a desire-based hallucination, if I had been a devotee. But I was not then, nor am I now or have ever been, a Baba devotee. At the time of this experience, I had barely even heard of Baba.  (A friend of mine had shown me a book and some pictures, and a video, of Baba, several months earlier, that's all).  In matters like this, I must follow my personal experience and my heart.  So, I choose not to believe that the slander leveled against Baba has any truth behind it. It just does not fit the personality and aura of the wonderful being who materialized before me that day.


Take care, Robert.

Let's start taking a big leap in our learning and stop depending on 'authorities' to determine what is believable and what's not. If Bruce believes it or not, is inconsequential. The best way to learn is to experience yourself, travel, seek... And if you want to learn about Sai'Baba then go to India and see the 'Saint' himself. But be forwarned, you will learn more about yourself than about the Sathya Sai Baba. I once mentioned here on AstralPulse that from my experience most highly 'psychic' individuals tend to be oversexed from my perspective, and seem to fall into trouble in this area. I myself am not highly psychic, and I'm sure being 'oversexed' has nothing to do with being psychic. I have witnessed many 'materializations' of the sort Bruce mentions. And I'm sure if it was someone else in Bruce's place, the Sathya Sai Baba would not have materialized.

Mirador

Fenris (first page) "can a negitive or any type of entity not normally on this plane exist here in a tangable form"

Yes. I'm doing it right now, as are many other humans.

Hello, as a new member this is my first post.

Rob suspects all the anti-baba sites to originate from the same people. Through registrars websites (where you can buy domain names) you can check who the owner of a particuliar site is (and gets other info as well).

One could check who owns all the anti-baba sites.

I had never heard of Baba, but just thought I could throw my 2 cents.

A datura experience, with elements of lycanthropy.

http://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=1825

I wonder if someone could shed some light on somthing. In my local area in Brisbane Australia I have talked to three people two of which are close about a particular entity. It was first seen by my neighbour in our street about 15 years ago. And it was resently seen by my brother in a field about 2km away while out playing silly buggers in a car. It is described as a large wolf of immense blackness. Its body appears more enlongated than as for a 'real' wolf and the best part is that when it moves it does so in an effortless fashion that does not bounce as it moves, it more glides along. My neighbour who saw the creature on more than one occasion said that the second time he saw it the creature stoped its run down the street and stared up at him through his window. He described it as having his soul look through, and felt as if it could crush him if it willed. My brother described the same sence of being powerless. Another important thing to add is that it makes noice as it moves, so this sugests that it is tangible. The third person I mentioned has had knowledge on the subject was another witch. She described it as being an oracle(she didn't elaborate as to how) and its purpose is to search the souls of people for its master. However she was also a drug addict! The only idea I have is that it is some kind of energy feeder, and both people assure me that it is no ordinary creature. Sorry to be so long winded but hopefully Ive provided some food for thought!

Regards David