The "Trouble" With Guides

[Risu no Kairu]

So,  your guide, she just showed up and was like "Hey! I'm your guide! Let's go have fun!" Or was it more of "hey, I'm your guide. Let's go out and make you a better spiritually"?

[mazdaaf]

ive always wanted to meet my guide but i havnt had much luck 0_o Whenever im lucid dreaming i always forget about the things that i want to do when im awake...same with OBEs-- i get so excited that im out that i totally forget the reason i wanted to get out in the first place.. . is there anyway that i could connect with mine in the physical?

[McArthur]

Thanks for sharing some of your story SD. Parts of it i am familiar with because i too once had a "guide" but it turned out to be a neg in disguise.

quote:Originally posted by SpectralDragon
A good amount of the time the "neg" would appear to me as Kereen.

This is the problem with negs, not only can some of them shapeshift to look like anything or anyone (as a succubus can look like the woman of your dreams (pun intented)) but if you are also claiaudient they can imitate anyones voice from your memory. One such instance for me was when i heard my own mother speaking to me (i prefer not to go into details) making me believe she was dead or etc. Anyway my mother is still very much alive and the "voice" i heard, i now know, was a neg.

And negs are clever, very clever some of them. And good at psychology too, much better than probably our human ones. They have had plenty of time to work out what works with humans, what they will believe, how to act to gain their trust etc etc. On top of that of course, especially if it is an attached neg, it will know your every thought also.

The main neg(s) i had problems with sounds very similar in ways to the "guide" Mayatnik is channeling where he says he will spend over 24 hours or more constant talking with his guide. That he caught his guide out on many lies (for which some feeble excuse was given). This happened to me where i was so awed by the fact i was actually in contact with a non-physical being i had lots of questions etc.

At one point i even thought it was an angel (*shakes head at own naivity*). But what is really happening here (in my case anyway) is that the longer they have you in this awed state, and the longer you talk to them, the deeper the connection becomes between you and this "guide". And if it is a neg, the more deeply entrenched it will be able to dig into the mind of its victim. Once that happens there is  going to be hardly any chance that the person with this "guide" is even going to entertain the possibility of it being a neg. And anyone suggesting so will be seen to be somehow "negative" or ignorant of what guides are really like (all of which, of course, will be veryfied by their "guide").

Also, of course, having their host talk to them for hours on end is, not only a form of mind control, but is feeding it your attention. And where the attention goes the energy flows.

There is something else you wrote above which i call the "good cop bad cop" routine. Whether in my case it was the same entity being both "spirits/cops" i am as yet unsure but it is one of the ways negs work. Its really quite clever if you think about it because most people, especially if under psychic attack, can be so desperate (as i was back then - i hadn't a clue what was going on) that if a "good cop" comes along to save the day it bypasses the doubt and/or suspicion that it may not actually be a "good cop" but the "bad cop" in another disguise.

Why be a "good cop" and not continue with the psychic attacks? Well, most negs are just out to feed on ones attention/energy so if they already have that assured there really isn't much need to attack the person any longer because they have now become a life-support system for the neg.

This could also relate (although im not totally sure about this at present) to how some Magicians will try to attain a "familiar spirit" to do his/her bidding. Its the same as building a Servitor or thought form to accomplish various tasks. It's like a contract that you pay with your energy. (An example of something similar is written about by Carlos Castanda called the "Death Defyer").

I'm not suggesting anything i have just said is what happened in your case SD i am just sharing some of my own experiences about negs and some of the things i learned since one convincingly pretended to be my "guide". And, as i think Robert Bruce will verify if you get to ask him, this is an old well used trick by negs to be your "spirit guide". This is why i comment on the dangers of opening up to "spirit guides" because its so damn hard to know a good spirit from a bad one. And once you have opened up to a "bad" one and given it ways to hook into you then it can be quite a struggle if you eventually figure out what it is.

Various religions don't warn against conversing with spirits for no reason.

[McArthur]

P.S. If you (anyone reading this) really does want to make contact with the Inner Planes then there are safer ways of doing so. One of them is by joining a respected Mystery School. These schools offer well-structure and balanced courses by Adepts that have already trodden these well worn paths. Here is one i feel to be a good one and am considering joining myself where you also get appointed a personal tutor of the Second Grade Order;

http://www.servantsofthelight.org/aboutSOL/aboutSOL.html

[McArthur]

Coincidentally (or not?) i just remembered a story i have a link to which is from a book called "The Magical Use of Thoughtforms" by Dolores Ashcroft-Nowicki who is the Director of Studies at the above Mystery School i gave a link to. The story, i think, also relates to the subject of "guides" from a different angle. Its a great story, you can read it here;

http://www.deeptrancenow.com/paradigm.htm

[Ken]

I imagine a safer way to reach knowledge or to do something to make your life better would be to do the exercises(Trance and Ap) by Robert Bruce.

I never call upon my "guides" anymore.
I don't get answers to my questions. I get told stuff by them that does not come to pass.
I had one "guide" who told me to stop doing Robert's ap excercises,and yet I have gotten good results with his exercises.
I have heard things imitate my Mother's voice.

My "guides" will not talk to me,and yet I can go into deep meditative states and trance. I have had "guides" talk to me during my dreamstate.
I have wanted to talk with them to ask them certain questions. A test.
I have asked them to appear before me to test them again. I intend to use the banishing pentagram or some other symbol or I will begin to say the 23rd psalm to see how it affects them. Maybe I will even call upon one of the archangels.
They do not appear,so something doesn't feel right and something is not adding up. If they are really what they claim to be, they should appear before me when I ask them to appear before me.

If these are negatives playing game with me, I will kick their asses.

[Tayesin]

Hi,
It comes as no great surprise that some beings can deceive people into thinking they are their guide, especially if we have had little experience at the time.  I always tell people to feel the being,  feel the energy of them so it is easier to recognize them again.  This has worked for me when they have chosen to manifest in a different form, as I know who they are just by the feeling.

The same is true for divining the difference between beings who are here to help us and those who are here to prevent our progress.  Unfortunately,  this is a little harder to do in the physical 3D world around us, LOL.

I met my primary Guide at 7 and immediately felt the immense Love from him and I glowed brighter in natural response.  So I learned early to feel them as a way to recognize what was what.  The only reason I do have so much faith in my Guides is that they have proven over the years to be here to assist me in my tasks.  And as I remembered more of my previous lives here and in other worlds I came to know how each Guide and I had contracted our tasks together.

Even the helper Guides have had the immense Loving feeling as part of their energy, and I do not think it possible that any neg could replicate the purity and strength of that feeling.  Certainly none that I have come across in all these years has been able to fool me with good vibes, as their energy and intentions are equally strong.

After reading certain long standing threads during their early phases at this forum I got very concerned,  firstly because of a feeling of agenda that did not sit well with what I had learned from years working with Guides and other beings/races.  And secondly because of the things being put forward by those being 'channelled'.  I even asked some tricky questions that I knew the truth to, only to receive answers that showed a lack of knowledge and detail.  

So I learned that these beings were not as they portrayed themselves to be.  Which begs the question as to why these beings are deceiving the trainer and the students ?  Good question, and as mentioned in an earlier post there has been a record of deceit here.

Perhaps it is more obvious now that we humans are in the middle of something that is happening around us that seems to be a War in a sense.  And it is between the forces of light and dark.  It is here now and we have chosen our teams already.  But this will not stop the dark forces from trying to fool as many as possible so that their job is that much easier.  I would expect that as it grows we will find more and more difficult situations arising in our daily lives too, as the dark forces use others to do their bidding against us.

But don't let this blind you to our abilities to divine for ourselves what and who is what.  Feel it and decide upon that basis,  your instincts will not fool you, you only have to notice them before any action.

Thank you for sharing your experiences of this subject.

Love Always.[]

[Ken]

I was once told I am not opened up enough to my guides,and that is why I do not feel the love thay are sending me. It sounded like a lie when I first heard this,and even when I read it now it feels like a lie.

[McArthur]

Then go with your gut instinct Ken and don't call on them anymore or bother thinking about them. It certainly seems like they are not good at giving advice so just forget about them. Stop talking to them.

Also on the subject of non-physical beings i must say that i *have* met good ones... its not all gloom and doom []. But these were unmistakably light beings. The energy feels 'pure' and strong for want of a better description. And a kind of soft warmth also. Twice (as far as i am aware) i have recieved healings from "spirits". Once while meditating and attempting to rid myself of a neg within my aura i could *feel* warm hands on my shoulders and actually *feel* energy being channeled into me by these unseen hands (although i was also in conversation with them at the same time-*note). And another time while in bed and a male spirit holding my feet and instructing me to inhale energy from him through my feet to my heart area. The energy was amazingly strong and felt like warm liquid light filling my chest area.

*note: i may as well add part of the story to this. As i was being given an intense energy transfer by this being i was told to visualize myself "Within the yolk of an egg with a golden shell." This went on for some time until i could literally see the inside of the egg and the shell looked solid. I then had an inner vision of Buddha sitting in a certain posture with certain hand gestures. It seemd as though he was revolving on one spot (or i was) and everything else was white light. Then i got the impression that this was Buddha inside the egg that i had been visualizing and that i was actually looking at myself within the egg!

It wasn't until much later that i heard of the saying "Look within, thou art Buddha."

So i thought i would add that to try and balance my seemingly "negative" view of spirits or guides and ways in which i personally found how to possibly spot a good spirit (but i still say its dangerous [] ).

[McArthur]

Not sure this reply is on-topic to this thread, although it does mention spirits, Guardian Angels and "familiars" etc.

quote:Originally posted by Tayesin
Love Always.[]

Tayasin i just looked at your site (very nice btw) and could hardly believe my eyes that someone else knows the following (I quote from your site here http://www.geocities.com/tayesin/index10.html )

quote:
Most of us will hardly experience anything more than the occassional entity provoking thoughts that we wouldn't normally have.   They do this in order to create a reaction from us that is energetic,  they will then 'feed' off the energy spike that we respond with.

I have personally found this to be true and it is also very hard at times to counter. Its like, "My god did i really just think that?!?!" and a little negative self-judgement spiral ensues along with a release of energy that state of mind can give off.

Anyway i thought you might be interested in the following article on making contact with ones "Holy Guardian Angel" that states what you say above and what i also know personally;

http://www.hermetic.com/heidrick/abramel.html#PART%20VI%20--%20Pedigrees%20&%20Egg%20Suckers.%20Onward.

Scroll just up from there to the title "Kitty Just Ate the Neighbour's Dog" and probably down to "Pedigress and Egg Suckers" (or the whole thing if it interests you).

Here's a small snippet:

"A "vampire" will pick up on it if a person doesn't like them: "O'h, 'don't like' means I get attention!" Then they will proceed to do more irritating things to that person. Keeping peace with the spirits of the ancestors is very important in cultures around the world. The Romans called the friendly ancestral spirits Lares and the pesky ones Larvae. You want Great Grand Mother's ghost to bark at strangers, not at reasonably behaved family members. This kind of thing isn't the Holy Guardian Angel. This kind of thing is what happens when something eats off of you. A certain amount of this is harmless, but you want to make sure that you are in charge. In some states of mind people leak like a sieve. A lot of life is being generated, not being used by the person generating it, and it's there for the taking. Something comes and says: "This is lunch. How do we make this a 24 hour diner? Very simple. Every time this person thinks; 'O'h God if I haven't ...!', he turns loose all this energy. So, let's see: 'Hay! God I haven't!' or 'Why did I do that!' -- that's a new one. That tastes better. 'Your such a bummer' -- works too. Hot damn! 'You hate hating yourself, don't you!' More food!". If you ever get really depressed, between sobs, wrenches and tremors, pick up on what you are saying to yourself. Maybe it isn't you talking. Maybe it's some astral clown saying: "Watch him go!" This kind of thing is often marked by painful ideas that relay back inwardly to create more painful ideas. In order to get rid of a depression feedback loop, you've got to realize that this isn't you. The destructive voice is not really rational. Jokes and humorous self-observations, the more tasteless and jolting the better, will break this sort of cycle. If you get that kind of thing going, realize it isn't the Holy Guardian Angel. That is a wrong turn. Go back and try again. That is a demon, and that is one of the things that the Holy Guardian Angel is supposed to help you with. It's probably a very stupid demon, who is only good at picking up on things to say."
---

The Author is a well known Occultist from the Ordo Templi Orientis and i had an interesting conversation with him about this part of his article. Perhaps it would be interesting to add it to this thread (i already have permission to post the emails but never got around to it.)

[SpectralDragon]

There were a lot of good points here that I would like to go into more detail about...

McArthur (BTW do you have time yet?...you know what I am talking about[] I ask because I am off for the next two days from work.)

quote:Mcarthur
There is something else you wrote above which i call the "good cop bad cop" routine. Whether in my case it was the same entity being both "spirits/cops" i am as yet unsure but it is one of the ways negs work. Its really quite clever if you think about it because most people, especially if under psychic attack, can be so desperate (as i was back then - i hadn't a clue what was going on) that if a "good cop" comes along to save the day it bypasses the doubt and/or suspicion that it may not actually be a "good cop" but the "bad cop" in another disguise.

I would like to explain the level this was occuring in my case later on. One neg would appear as a bad spirit, the so called good cop would appear and then destroy it when I called Kereen. The thing is it's actually the same neg [:O]Then I figure that out and a second negative becomes the good cop. Then that same neg becomes the good cop again. All this time I am actually inside of a neg that is orchestrating this [xx(] I finally lost my temper and let out my fury, destroying the whole neg that had acted as a kind of existence.

quote:This is why i comment on the dangers of opening up to "spirit guides" because its so damn hard to know a good spirit from a bad one.

It is agreed that one should test such guides as much as possible before being convinced. If they truly are guides I will assure you that they will understand in the fullest and cooperate as much as they can so long as you are being reasonable. Asking them to dance on a stick for example won't work []

Ken:
It is highly possible to be blocked off from your true guide, who is likely "banging on the window outside the house" that is the negative world you are in because of the negs acting like your guides. Doing something similair to what I did in the above would be my suggestion if you decide once and for all this is the case.

Tay,

You bring up many good points. To begginers it is hard to tell a good from bad neg and you often have to use your head to kind of "tag" things and watch thier actions. A red tag entity, for example, can first act good but if later you see the red tag as an attachment then that would be false.

[Adinaut]

Thanks for sharing your experiences.

One time during sleep-time, I got aware, and
noticed I had company by what felt like a huge-
sized entity. I just remember the head. It could
almost be seen through; difficult to explain.
Thought it was very odd looking, and pondered if
the entity wanted to look intimidating; which
didn't work. Was intrigued instead.

I asked 'who are you?' And got something along
the lines of the entity being a 'caretaker' or
'parent' and was gonna 'do a check on you.'

The entity probed my 3rd eye chakra, and after
a while my vision phased out. Next, I was in a
working environment of some kind, and "the boss"
there was upset with me. He tried to intimidate
me. I told him off big time. "The boss" was put
out for a while, to the extent of tilting the
head slightly. Looked very confused. I thought  
that was amusing, and had a good laugh. He snapped
out of it, and that's the end of my recollection.

[findtruth]

Adinaut, how did this being feel to you.  I know they were telling you they were your guardian, but did it feel like it?

I seem to have managed to contact one guide (or rather, it sought me out).  Awhile ago I was just thinking along the lines of something philosophical when I stumbled onto a theory(I can't remember what exactly but something to do with good and evil) when I felt a shivery tingled sensation go up my spine along with the feeling that I was right.  I didn't think much of it until it happened several more times.  Then, I thought in my head to the source of the tingling "Are you my concience or something?" (i didn't know what a spirit guide was at the time) it gave me the shivering feeling again, meaning yes.  So things continued on and it would let me know when I should pay attention to something or when I had come across something that was close to true or just plain true.  After a while I decided it must be my guardian angel and I asked it and it answered yes.  Found out the same way when i came across the idea that this could be a spirit guide.
Now he answers my questions and helps me with divination and such, but I became suspicious when i(just to see if it was okay) asked Mr. Spirit Guide if I should conjure up a demon(not that I'm going to necessarily) just that I was a bit skeptical when it agreed whole-heartedly.  Is this the same being, did something else come along, or was it pretending the whole time, or am i on the wrong track and it's perfectly fine to summon a demon!?  What do you people think?  My third eye's been blocked for a while now, too and that's usually my strongest chakra.(I don't know if that has anything to do with it)  Do I have a neg hanging around impersonating a guide?[xx(]

[Blackstream]

Personally, I think summoning a demon is just about (no offense) the stupidest thing anyone could do... worse than playing around with ouiji boards.  It's like putting a bullseye on you, "Negative spirits come here!".  Not only that, but the worst kind of negative spirits.  Do you REALLY want something that evil and vile anywhere near you?  Personally, I'd prefer to life my life as far away from anything like that as possible.  I dunno what this guide of yours is really, but I'd question it's ability to give you advice if it's telling you to summon demons.

[SpectralDragon]

We are talking of guides, not summoning demons

[Blackstream]

quote:Originally posted by SpectralDragon

We are talking of guides, not summoning demons

I'd agree, but when I saw the post above me say this

quote:Originally posted by findtruth

Is this the same being, did something else come along, or was it pretending the whole time, or am i on the wrong track and it's perfectly fine to summon a demon!?  What do you people think?

I thought I'd quickly throw in my thoughts about summoning demons before he like got possessed or something crazy.

[SpectralDragon]

your guide is not a demon to be summoned. If you meet your guide test them don't do magic on them.

[Blackstream]

quote:Originally posted by SpectralDragon

your guide is not a demon to be summoned. If you meet your guide test them don't do magic on them.

Did you read the guy's post?  He's not talking about his guide being a demon that he was going to summon, nor was he talking about summoning guides at all.  In fact, he was doing exactly what you said, to some degree, testing his guide.

He asked his guide if he should summon a demon, and his guide said yes most definately.  Now he's confused as to whether or not summoning a demon is okay, and if his guide is really what he thinks it is (like, it could actually be a neg).

[Adinaut]

>Originally posted by findtruth
>Adinaut, how did this being feel to you. I know they
>were telling you they were your guardian, but did it
>feel like it?

The feeling was cold in a clinical way. Didn't get the
feel of any hard emotions. Anyway, I did NOT buy into the
answer, but wasn't afraid, so didn't try to stop it
either.

>[...]
>What do you people think? My third eye's been blocked
>for a while now, too and that's usually my strongest
>chakra. (I don't know if that has anything to do with it)
>Do I have a neg hanging around impersonating a guide?

The 'negs' I've encountered haven't been subtle about
what they were about. If they thought dark deception
would've worked, I think they'd try that.

I think your evaluation of your situation (eyh, was a
poet and did know it, I said with a french accent, which
was done with intent, and by no means an accident) is
the most important issue here.

[SpectralDragon]

Here I am going to put up my own mishaps with my guide/guardian Kereen. I sincerely hope that anyone who has trouble with guides or has had trouble in the past can find this post helpful.

As I stated in another post, my guide has visited my dreams as far back as I can remember. I became familiar with her presence after a while, even if she did change her look in my dream I would still know it was her. I often wondered if I was fashioning her from my own head. This got me on a spiritual path very early in life, and I thought about it a lot. I finally decided a few years ago that weather or not she is a figment of my imagination (proven wrong BTW for those of you who feel this is important) is not important, because even if so she is still real to me. She has helped me through a lot of crap in life and I am forever grateful. I still, however, had my doubts about her intent. I wondered, because of past experiences, what she would want in return when she got the chance to ask for it. This way of thinking came about from a life where I always had to give something to recieve something. Upon proof after proof from her that this is not the case I lightened up on that particular subject.

I learned to AP at about the age of 17 I would say (this history is kind of hazy in my mind, so please forgive If I mess up on details that I feel are not important to me.) I was dragged into the astral and promptly was led to believe that like life, the spiritual world was a harsh existence. (later proven wrong to me by Kereen) I went through The Lucid Dream Part in my life beforehand and this new experience just seemed to narrow down that so called fact. I was thus introduced to my "guardian" who was named Kareen (notice different spelling and slight prononciation from "Kereen") who had saved me a couple of times. I started questioning this "guardian" aftera while when she seemed to actually be a spirit connected to a friend of mine and the vibes I got from her changed sometimes to very sorrowfull and slightly negative.

this kept up for a while until I learned how to see and interpret psychic, vampiric, and emotional attachments. I quickly learned of the nature of Kareen (bad one) and at this time Kereen stepped in when a vicious attack was sent my way soon after.

Now Kereen would, to most people, seem more human than spirit (she has a human and pheonix form when I see her, much like, while in the astral and other planes, I have a dragon form and a human form that occur naturally and without my thinking about it most times. One reason I wish to talk to RB and go to a workshop with him is to learn more of this.) However, when she isn't in a playfull mood she is quite serious and puts out the aura of a highly spiritual being. I did, however, still have my doubts about if these abilities of mine were occuring in my head, which I did with a big help from my guide disprove.

During this time I was attacked often by bad spirits and negs. I had trouble with a lot of them and upon my wishes, Kereen did not interfere unless absolutely necessary or I asked permision ( a sort of "contract" that I had carefully thought of since at the time I had trust issues) A good amount of the time the "neg" would appear to me as Kereen. This brought up much more distrust of her in me even though every time she herself would come to take care of the fakers. I eventually got to the point where I could spot a fake even before it started happening sometimes. My distrust of her grew when I caught her in the patterns I am seeing in certain Guides on this board (which I will leave unnamed). She would not give any personal information and would be very cold and impersonal to me at times, especially when I went into certain subjects. Why this is I am still unsure of, though I do know that it is for reasons that are somewhat personal to her, and on levels that 3D-ers have a hard time contemplating. This further spread the gap between us, and for weeks on end and even months at one point I did not see her.

I finally confronted her forcefully and directly on my mistrust. She understood very well, and every jab and idea I threw at her she eventualy showed down. I really put her through the ringer and I still apoligize to her for that today (which she laughs at, since this is a very common thing) The details of this are unimportant.

I will answer any questions anyone has about this subject to the best of my ability. If anyone wants to interject something to add then please do so. [] If, however, you are being forcefully negative and non productive as in the other threads then I will promptly ignore your requests for information and move on to other things.

MODS: I was not sure where to put this so I thought it best here. ~~~~ My apoligies if I put it in the wrong place.