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distant bell

The saying goes " as under, as over".... I have no first hand knowledege about the astral plain.. but I don know that this plain is full of evil, so why should the astral be any different?  Anyhow there are loads of reports of evil spiritual beeings who get ther sunday fun from messing around with other beings. I would be surprised If all was good on the "other side"..
after al, just look at al the evil persons here on earth- what happens to them? Do they turn al saints and good over nigth when they die? that would seem strange- in that case why that behaviour here on earth ?

As I said I really don´t know... but I belive  that the astral plain is wery subjective, it just might be one way for some and anothre way for others..

If two people would go to a strange country on vacation, lets sy they go from europ to the us, and one of the comes to a nice turist area in the south, and the other ends  up in the bronx- would that not mean that they would come back home with two totally oposed wievs on how this strange place called america is??

"and maby it´s all just as a dream- and I am truely the king of my own thoughts?"


-- Love is the Law - Love under Will --


Negativity, or as some say 'evil', works on a much lower vibrational level such as this physical one and the seven bellow.  If during your astral travels you do feel fit to visit any of the lower level, those bellow the physical, you will encounter 'though pools' where all the thoughts are kept and sort of pool together.  The first two to three levels are not nearly as bad as the remaining four that reside lower and lower in vibrations.  Withing the first few are beautiful sights to see but some may find somewhat disturbing, that is where some beautiful dragons and unicorns and fairies and entities of that stature reside.  The lower you go, the more horrific the sights do become.  Once you reach the very bottom one, you would swear that you are in hell, if there was such a place.  However these are only thoughts and do not bother you any more than you bother them.  When you fall into nightmares its some of these levels that 'leak' up to your level.  REMEMber, these are only thoughts, the more they are thought of, the more strength they garner.  
In your mind, aswell as in their own level.  

Now true negativity resides on the physical level, true time, and they really do have better things to do than to bother curious seekers.  What would they gain?  There are another seven levels that rise up from this physical one, and again rise in vibration.  The higher the vibration the more devine and 'mystic' the experience dose become.  Negativity lives in the marshes, the swampland, the insane asylum, ie earth bound.  This form of darkness manipulates all of the physical level.  They robot their own kind, and sometimes haras those good entities that obstruct their way.  This is where prejudice, bigotry and hate all stem from, greed.  If you sift down to the lowest denominator in evil, you will always find greed at its heart.  So the higher the vibrational level, the harder it is for this type of essence to manuever around, therefore they dont and they stay here.  They rarerly go past the first or second level ascending in vibration.  *You can't catch a AM station on your FM radio, can you?  

This works against our reciprocation from our guides, this being a much lower vibrational level and they residing on a higher plane, do have a difficult time communicating with us, as ofcourse the deceased.  If the message is large enough, then ofcourse they find a way to get through, but on the most part they do not, this is our test.  This is our battleground in which we must find our way through.  Once the white entities depart they rise up to their 'home', once the dark entities depart (leave their physiological bodies) then they remain here and instantly take on another incarnation.  This is their homeland, yes, and we are here to experience and LEARN.

As I always said, live and learn, die and know.


"To thyne own self be true."

Dreams of Desires

This is the way I see it.. There are Several traditions state that there are seven levels in the Astral plane, with higher and lower areas for the departed souls and other entities. one being the lowest and seven being the highest, no one can travel astrally to the very highest level above the seven astral levels, these attendants being angles, special high masters come and go from there.. I have ran into them or they have ran into me many of times, and it is very hard to get past them, as well as frightening.. These entites feed off of our energies.. I have been experiencing Astral Projection ever since I could remember *from the age of 5 or 6*..

I'm not understanding you, you don't believe in the Devil or an evil force.. But you do believe in dragons and unicorns and fairies? *laughing*

::It's not the chicken Soup that cures the person, it's the love that comes with it::    


Cute, My intention was pure, therefore I will elaborate further.  There is no devil, as in one major entity that is standing in a firy pit with a red suit and pitch fork milking your energy. No.  That is a thought form, the more you think of it the more it grows in strength.  Thats all I'm trying to stop, all of you are so besieged by evil thats all you see and thats all you look for, and thats all your creative super/sub concious creates.   Like a bunch of crack babies looking for a sewer to crall into, oblivious to the fact that there is more..

The physicall level is lets say zero.  There are seven levels above, ascending in vibration, and there are seven levels bellow, descending in vibration.  All thoughts are things.  Where did the idea of unicorns or dragons come from??  Try telling someone of Asian descent that dragons do not exist.   Someone tapped it, and someone seen it, and it obviously wasn't one person.  The same goes for you beloved dark horned emperor with his hoves for feet.  There is an evil yes.  But its not in that form.  It is much more insidieous than that, and it doesn't always need to be in a physical body, no its earthbound and resident to the physical level.   As for the the ascending (increasing) vibrational levels, going to the seventh is said to be going behind the Godhead.  Yes that is difficult and you would need a good reason, while ofcourse being taken there by your guides.  Your guides are the ones that will help you navigate throughout the many level, as soon as you quit trying to kill them with fire from your hand, damn komakazies!

Everyone astral travels, atleast three times per week.  Weather you do it conciously or not, thats just your memories that you bring back.  The fact that you have conciousness through it this experience doesn't call evil upon you.  Think about it, think, think logically.  This isn't star wars, this is the miracle behind life.

Hey, D of D, you can remember to when you were five or six? wow.  Thats pretty impressive, and to boot, it explains and *credits* your story quite well.  You should try some chicken soup with a bit a luv..


"Ignorance breeds on ingronace.  Ignorance is a sickness of the soul."

Dreams of Desires


"There is no devil, as in one major entity that is standing in a firy pit with a red suit and pitch fork milking your energy."

If that's what you believe then so be it, others might think different. Personally I believe in many evils, not just one..

all of you are so besieged by evil thats all you see and thats all you look for, and thats all your creative super/sub concious creates. Like a bunch of crack babies looking for a sewer to crall into, oblivious to the fact that there is more.."

Please elaborate on "All".. personally I don't ask for evil to come my way when I'm in a astral phrase.. I experience good and bad, I happen to share my bad experiences so I can get better help on the situations. Yes, you can ask your guides for help, but lets face it, your guides are not here *on earth* in human form..

"Where did the idea of unicorns or dragons come from??"

My dear I believe you quoted that yourself..

::It's not the chicken Soup that cures the person, it's the love that comes with it::    


Okey, first off I cannot believe the resistance you put for forth against enightenment.  I did not come here to argue and try to prove my point, because it is not 'my' point to begin with.  If you want to quote my wirtting out of contex, this makes it hard for me to elaborate, as I end up chasing my own tail.  

Lets face it, I don't know you from a hill of beans, as you do not know me.  You came in here shooting me down with no evidence and no explenation to offer.  I have nothing I need to prove to you, I came here to relieve some of the tension that a new comer may face after reading 'all' of the very personal stories.  All these stories are nothing more then concious nightmares, tapping into a lower level.  The reason these people feel like kings and queens for anhiliating anything that steps before them, is because its not bothering them and is inanimate.  Your fighting your own thoughts which in tern you gained from reading other peoples 'bad dreams'.  Then your sub/super concious conjures up what that could be and gives it a force.  Then you share your odd-balledness with another and before you know you are spiriling down into lower levels and more horrific scenery, to boot throughout all of this you are concious!   This is not bad in it self, but it does have an effect on your life and other peoples lives.  You walk around claiming to have seen demons and gargoiles which you have conquered in battle..  DO NOT mistaken these sorts of experiences with true evil. DO NOT!  You will know when you face true evil, it will be in real time, and none of your artilery seem to phase it.  This is very rare and the dark would have little to gain from you shaking in your booties, they are very much beyond that.  There is a certain order, these types of entities are confined and remain in their own levels.  It is a balance if you would, the more you go fishing into the lower levels, the more will leak up to you.  I'm just trying to save your sanity, which aswell hangs in the balance.

As for your guides, they are very much here 'on earth', everything is.  Its just at a different frequency (vibration), just like multiple radio stations can inhabit the same room.  Your guides have gone through a phase in which they do become more humanized, that is only to aid in their guidance of you.  They are reading this with you, they never leave you, you can always call on them for help, always, and they always respond.  They are your true link between physical and astral worlds.

Hey D of D, I'm surprised this information in foreign to you, you have been travelling for a long time right?  What sorts of places you go?  Can you share some of your better experiences.  Or maybe your name sugests your experience bank. hmm?


"Hate is your fear of ability to cope."

"Unenlightened people need fear.  That fear is a negative emotion that fills up their soul with darkness."

"Stupidity cannot be enlightened.  Nor can greed or avarice be enlightened.  Those that close their eyes to it will not hear it."


Ok, there's no devil.  I have no religion, so I'll agree with that one.
Demons, however, do exist.  I don't believe they are "evil"....from what I have seen, they are brutal, dangerous, and ruthless, and their aims are often at conflict with our well-being.  But I've also heard of them showing emotions such as sympathy.   *shrug*

In any case, the whole high=good low=bad thing, in terms of frequency (vibration is really not the proper term to apply to it), shows no signs of having any foundation in reality.  Frequency has nothing to do with how nice or nasty an entity is, in any of my experiences.  I've met people with higher and lower frequencies as well, and their personalities did not match this simplistic view, either.
This came about because, of course, the lowest frequency of energy is MATTER.  And matter, in so many religions, is bad/unenlightened/primitive.

It's just a religious view.  If you BELIEVE this, your beliefs will color your perceptions.  If you keep an open mind, you'll find that the reality doesn't match that pattern at all.

--Winged Wolf
"I will stare at the sun until its light doesn't blind me, and I will walk into the fire, 'til its heat doesn't burn me, and I will feed the fire...."
--Winged Wolf
"I will stare at the sun until its light doesn't blind me, and I will walk into the fire, 'til its heat doesn't burn me, and I will feed the fire...."


Oh puh-lease!

The astral plane, is an extremely dangerous place, I don't know where you have been traveling.  Possibly, in the void within yourself, which is an *entirely* different harm there.  It is also where most people end up, as true traveling is a serious business.

Or maybe it's just my experience.  I've encountered entities as big as entire planets, and they move extremely quickly....if you can't weave multiple flows of energy *snaps* in an instant, well you're kinda screwed.

I have seen far too many people injure themselves to not be concerned when people make these comments.  As, I still feel very young experience wise on this realm, old abilities return quickly on the astral...I don't know what else to say.  My experience, but I would caution you to take either side too seriously, and it is NEVER a bad idea to have a good solid shield you can draw energy from, and weave flows with....*shrug*

Travel at your own risk


Eero Soots

Re: Tir13

I agree, one should not claim to know for certain that there are no evil entities in the universe. That would be difficult to back up given it's vastness.

My house has never been robbed, but is it then logical to say that there are NO burglers in existence? Should I tell everyone that there is now no need to lock your doors or windows at night because burglers don't exist, simply based on the fact that I have never experienced a robery?



That's an excellent analogy....err...want a cookie!?  :)




Okey, okey, I smell what you are all cooking.  I never said there in no negativity, I just said most of it is what you make it, the rest has better things to do.  Its all within you, you are a mini universe within yourself.  The lower vibrations denote lower LEVELS not entities.  Entities are high density matter, and can move through any level.  Some levels are easier for some to manuever around in while others are not.  ANYways, it is wrong to throw rocks now and defame my travells of which you know nothing of, and by the sounds of I would be wasting my time typing...

I guess the only way to settle something like this would be to see who the true travellers are, and see which side they take, not the avid posters who type faster then they think, whose ego swells with their number of posts.  It would take a third party in this to set something up at a remote location perhaps another continent, such as an open book.  Or more simply to visit some european amusement park and see which rides are nonfunctioning.  Or perhaps to acuratly fortell the position of the solar system from the view point of mercury, something intra planetary that would not be worth your time to try and figure out while earth bound.

This doesn't phase me at all, I've been doing these sorts of things to prove to friends since I can remember.  This could be fun, and it could be seen as advertising for this forum, not to mention it would set the roccord straight about who the travellers are and add or remove their credibility, like those little stars under your names, puh-lease!

Just one more thing, I am really interested about the dangerousness and a travellers vulnerability while in the astral, or real time.  You mention people get hurt and injured?  Can you please explain that a little further?

Have fun and be well, most of all put your astral where your mouth is!


Dreams of Desires


I didn't come here to argue either, although I seen your entry and I said to myself, "I'd be stupid if I didn't respond".. I love a good debut.. You said you had nothing to prove, YOU came on here saying what you needed to say against others on their Astral journeys, your beliefs, you only want to believe what you want to believe, might I add being such a negative little person *smiling*.. Don't you think someones going to comment on your opinions, after all isn't that what you want, if not you shouldn't have came on here telling us your thoughts if you knew someone would *as you put it* argue with you on this situation.

It's time for you to chase your tail.. *laughing*

Hey D of D, I'm surprised this information in foreign to you..

Not foreign to me Tyrone, simply looking into the situation and your beliefs further.. I love to analyze in great depth, I'm in school to be a Forensic pathologist, that should give a hint on what kind of person I am..

you have been travelling for a long time right?

yep, over 20 years now..

What sorts of places you go?

I have gone to many places.. *my favorite though, would have to be to spy on my children, I have caught them many times playing when they should be sleeping..

Can you share some of your better experiences.

I have visited many relative whom have passed away,specially my father,he misses me and tells me things relating family situations..Although I have never seen my grandfather *he killed himself* so I don't think I will be seeing him soon..

Or maybe your name suggests your experience bank. hmm?

"Dreams of Desires".. Such a nice ring to it, isn't it?I lucid dream almost every single night as well as astral travel about 4 times a week, in my astral journeys there is a male figure whom I have known for years now, *astrally*.. We are very intimate with one another in these astral journeys, fit 2 and 2 together Ty you'll soon find your answer..

I must go now, but I must say something before I leave, be open with yourself.. We as souls do not THINK ourselves into these bad situations which we have encountered in Astral Travel, although some souls are more prone to attracting such negative entities then others, and I happen to be one of those souls..

I'm kinda curious on what sign you are, I believe I have an idea..  

Astral Travel has been described throughout history as a powerful aid to magickal workings.....  


I've never been much of one for traveling without a destination in mind.  As a result, I do astral travel when it's necessary--not just to go gallavanting around exploring.  Since I don't usually "see" energy, and I'm not much for remote viewing, there'd be very little point in going offplanet.  I've never even tried.

I go straight to where I intend to go, and do what I went there to do, then reel in the projection and go back to dealing with my more immediate surroundings.  I don't quite understand people who spend lots of time traveling astrally.....but then, I don't understand people who watch television all the time, either.

--Winged Wolf
"I will stare at the sun until its light doesn't blind me, and I will walk into the fire, 'til its heat doesn't burn me, and I will feed the fire...."
--Winged Wolf
"I will stare at the sun until its light doesn't blind me, and I will walk into the fire, 'til its heat doesn't burn me, and I will feed the fire...."

Qui-Gon Jinn

Tyrone, I have read most of what you have written under this topic, and I have to say I envy you - you seem to KNOW most things already...   "There ARE", They ARE", "It IS" and so forth...  not once have I read from you "I believe this to be the case"...  perhaps somewhere you´ve said you believed/thinked something,  but everything I have read from you so far, you have told how things ARE, and that´s it...  I get the feeling you are into "elitist" reasoning or how should I put it?´
"The belief that there is only "one truth" and that oneself is the only one who possess that truth, is the root for most evil (there, I said it.. ;) in this world" - Max Born

I agree with much of what you are saying though, I to, personally, feel that many people seem to focus on whatever "dark" things may awaiten them (but hey, that is okay, just me personally), I agree that fear breads fear, and I to do not believe in a devil or something like that, I don´t think I will have a "demon" waiting to claw me when out of body, I feel no need whatsoever doing any protection rituals or anything like that before attempting OBE´s....   but I don´t claim what I am saying is the TRUTH, if I would, that´d be like saying I KNOW the truth, and quite frankly, no person on this earth know "THE TRUTH"...  I don´t think there is any real evil awaitening me out there, but I don´t KNOW - therefore I am not saying I KNOW, how do you KNOW everything you are stating, may I ask??

This wasn´t said to attack you or anything, I just think it is sad to hear people say that THIS IS HOW IT IS, end of discussion... (not only will they not be respected very much, and if they really believe they KNOW, well then they are lost)  .. that all-knowing-attitude I found plenty of in your postings..  a lil humbleness is never wrong, being humble isn´t the same thing as being "chicken" or not saying what YOU believe, but it will make what you say more respected by those reading...  perhaps some food for thought??

  Take care mate, and everyone else of course...  //Qui-Gon

- Your focus determines your reality -



I find it interesting how you create this topic, very much sure of yourself, I mean look at your title - You guys can't be serious!  Right, and you don't expect people to have different experiences??  I'v already explained my position, and what I've encountered, and it is very much in conflict with what you've expereinced, and that's the beauty of's all subjective.  I'm just offering my 2 cents....

Furthermore, I usually have a specific task at hand when traveling, as defending yourself gets tiring after a while ^_^

I'm not going to enter into an ego battle with you, or anyone else, I only offer my limited view of the universe.

Take it or leave it




I'm so happy with all of your responses.  This is what I was hopping for in some way, maybe not through so much contraversy.  My intent wasn't on changing on how you perceive or experience things, my whole direction with this was for the people that do not post and that do not take the time to join.  When I first came upon this board and I read through most of the post, the one general theme that was played was annihilating 'negs with fire from you hands.  Thats all anyone ever posted about, and horrific entities that came their way.  Thats fine, thats your thing, I just wanted to offer a different perspective to things, even though I may have came on a little strong, especially when someone is negating 'the greys'.  I really do appologize to anyone I have offended, but if you look back it really was needed for a certain amount of serenity to surface.  

I did mean to sound pompus and all knowing, that was just to show again that one can take a firm stand against what everyone seems to hype.  Everyone has their own truth.  Everyones truth is individual and different from another persons truth.  These truths however conglomerately form the real truth. We all cary a spark from the great sparkler!   We all have it within us, and we can all tap it, some people see things through angry eyes, and some do not.  There just needs to be somewhat of a balance.  Some of you guys were tipping the scale too much one way, and when I came out some of you became enradged that its just my own void, when in reality you were living in your own void aswell.  Nobody has a right to say that they are better then anyone ealse, nobody has the right to judge.  We all have our ownl little place in the astral.

Hey d of d, that is most wonderous what you wrote.  If people came on here describing those types of journeys they have had, such as visiting departed souls, and scanning the akashic reccords, there would be a totaly new atmosphese.  Thats great that you are aware of your guide, if you tune in further you will see there are another probably four, just a little more distant, but I have a feeling now that you do know.  I too have spent many years studying, mostly aerospace, but few can immagine its monogamy.  Metaphysics was always knocking at my door, and when I did open it, the infusion came pouring in.  Just put the funnel to your head!

Its been lots of fun, no hard feelings, bless all your hearts!


(virgin dragon)


Thanks alot guys !

I am really new to this and last night I was SO close to projecting. I just couldn't get there and I think this was mainly due to the fact that every time I nearly did I drew myself back in fear of what I have read. I have loads of questions about how to get back into my physical body should something evil/scary appear and if I could do it quick enough etc and as I do not have all the answers to these sorts of concerning questions I doubt I will ever get there due to my fear. Reading through all your posts I do get the impression that we all must draw our own conclusions once we have travelled but there is always that fear in the back of my mind :(

Any words of confidence would be greatly appeciated.



I didn't read all the posts in this thread, so I'm not exactly responding to anything or anyone here.  ...But I read a few, and there was just a few things I wanted to say. (Forgive me if someone else said something like this already and I'm wasting your time because I'm to lazy to read lol)  

Tyrone:  I don't really believe in the devil myself.  I've always felt that "hell" was more of just the fact that all the bad things you've ever done will just be with you forever because you can't just forget them right?  Burning in eternal hell = never being able to let go of the bad things you've done.  That would make the devil your ego right?  Hmm the ego... that stupid thing that constantly attacks you when your feeling down or you've done something wrong..

Anyway.. I percieve demons as more of an internal thing..  Although I do think there can be some negative entities on the astral, I also believe the more intelligent ones would have little to do with us.  I mean you seem to connect lower level entities with a lower vibrational state and thats not neccisarily true...It would be more like the lower level entities WE encounter are lower level vibrational state...because most intelligent beings naturally want to search for harmony and spirituality ...its a natural thing that comes with intelligence. AND SO the few intelligent beings that do not seek this spiritual harmony, are naturally not only going to be off doing their own thing, but are also going to be few and far between.

While I basically don't believe in demons, I also do not believe in guides.  Granted there has got to be beings higher than us that could and would help us out, I don't neccisarily think there is someone "assigned" specifically to us to just sit there and babysit us.  I once read something about all guides being negative spirits just trying to help you so that they can eventually use you for your own needs.. I dont know if thats true...but its something to think about.  Every time I have asked for a guide to reveal him/herself..All I get is dreams with someone saying "hey im your guide" then playing nasty tricks on me.  ..But who's to say ..its a nice thought that someone is constantly watching over you

The last thing I wanted to say was that I am one of the few believers that you cannot be harmed on the astral.  I always felt that if harm were to come, it is because of, mainly, yourself.  Its like those mischievious negs that make themselves appear as giant demons, when they really have no power, and are just trying to make you scared to feed of your energy....  I feel that your fear can manifest in strange hurting your physical or astral body... hell I bet you can even create negs with your fear!  the astral is so ....hmm....affected by your thought you know?

Recently I had a weird experience with my brow chakra..I guess you can say I let it overcharge..I had a strange remote viewing experience with it (I will talk about it just to lazy to type it all up right now)  ...but the thing is...I let it keep going even when I knew I should have stopped it... I ended up with the worst migrane of my life...I could barely open my eyes and it took 6 ibuprofen and many hours for it to go away...I guess what I'm getting at is that it was my own fault.. and while we may not be aware (like I was) of the things we do... getting harmed is a direct result of our actions...not those of a "neg"

I dont know.. people make astral projection so complicated these days..its almost like a big fictional story even makes me have my doubts even though I actually can project.

Sorry for the bad grammer and unorganized sentances..I just kind of typed it all as it came

/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/You must try some of my purple berries.
I've been eating them for 6 or 7 weeks now, haven't got sick once.
Prolly keep us both alive.


Grenade;  I do applaud you for your common sense with this whole negs issue.  Some people do not realize that they manifest their own worst fears themselves, worse yet, they overblow their already overblown ego by anihilating them with fire from their hand..  Yes, the ego, what a beast!

I'm surprised that the projectors here have a hard time with this levels business.  Even Robert Bruce mentioned it in his description of the astral beyond, except he gave them names, and said that lower levels (which I refer to) reside inbetween the ascending ones.  It is very difficult to go to the higher levels, as you need to be guided or taken for a specific reason, usually through a tunnel.  The astral, the one next to the physical is like a playground where all the kids can play, however not everyone is allowed into the school, or higher grades if you will.  In the playground you can create all sorts of neat things, however that is also where the bullies will be more apt to bother you.  Even though, ."  Ofcourse these bullies get filtered out as the grades progress...  you see sort of what I mean?  The true negativity really does have other things in mind then to harange kids in the playground.

Its too bad you don't see your guides, I feel it may be by your own block.  Even people becoming comatost during surgery have reported seeing a strange bunch of person(s) once they projected from their body.  Your guides are not appointed to you, they are picked by you.  You know them, and they know you better then yourself, you just did not come with that part of the momory intact since it would hinder your overall progression here in this place.  They do not babysit you, they mearly keep an eye on you as you would watch a puppy play while doing your own thing.  These dear friends are the ones that keep the trully negative things at bay.  Its their acts that set of this entire 'guardian angel' phenomena.

"To thine own self be true" --Shakespeare


ps. grenade; you sure you didn't bilocate?


Well..The thought of guides is a nice one, and I hope they do exist.
It could be a block I've created..  I'm a pretty open person though, so if they do exist and decide to reveal themselves, I will be very cooperative and appreciative...if that makes sense.

Not exactly sure what you mean by bilocate or if its one of Roberts terms.  Its been a while since I've read AD.  Im not sure what happened though.... My brow started to go crazy and I was in a very deep trance.  I dunno if you've been in such a deep trance that like you don't even want to bother waking up.  So I just kind of sat there and let it keep going and the pressure on my brow became very intense.  Suddenly I became very ..conscious.. and I could think very clearly without disturbing my trance (usually if I begin to think to much my body seems to wake itself up)  and the pressure in my brow began to feel as if it was moving. My body itself still felt stationary in bed, but I felt like a small section of my forehead was going all over the place.  I almost imagine it as a school of fish in the ocean darting around.  You know how they dart back and forth very suddenly all at the same time, as if someone is controlling them all and pulling them in certain directions?  It felt like that.  I almost felt like I was being dragged by a fishing line against my will or something (but again only as if my forehead was moving...) I cant even describe this as intense as it felt..but yeah..
So each time it would change directions, I would see another image... but the images felt I was looking at say a puddle on the floor and I saw them.  like I was being pulled through this vast cave with puddles everywhere and pulled to each puddle shown it, then pulled to another.  It did not feel like an OBE at all, because of the fact that I could feel my body in bed, and also because it felt more like I was in one place, but I could peer into these pools with images in them..Hell maybe it did feel like I was obe'ing to this place, but not to the images i was seeing...if that makes sense.  Among some of the things I saw, vast hills, my girlfriends bedroom, my own room, random people I didnt recognise, and other things I cant remember to well.  The pulling increased in speed and intensity until it just became blinding and I think I passed out.  I woke up about 3 hours later with that horrible headache and didn't go back to bed that night. (this happened around midnight and I woke up at about 3 and got up at 4 when I realized sleeping was futile.

anyway..I may post this in another forum and see what people think.

/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/You must try some of my purple berries.
I've been eating them for 6 or 7 weeks now, haven't got sick once.
Prolly keep us both alive.


That sounds interesting, and ofcourse it could be a wide variety of things.  When you obe, your physical body starts pumping out the etheric matter to supply the astral body through the chakras.  However sometimes, and very few people I have been in contact with can do this, but somehow your body creates two astral bodies, which are ofcourse both you, but can be in two places at the same time, REAL time.  Thats pretty heavy stuff, even though you travel at the speed of though, sometimes you have several standpoints from which you watch a situation unfold, its hard on the brain, and yes you become wired like junky.  Your experience sounds like you had little control over your journey, which leads me to think that you were indeed guided to someplace where you were supposed to go.  On top of that your concious seemed to interfeer and would instinctively jerk you back, so that is why you ended up blacking out, its the only way you would go dude!  Or perhaps you were on the verge of a beautiful real time obe, but stuck at your brow chakra..  

Just curious, but how deep did you go in the trance?  Did you get a stiff tongue, drewl and runny nose, or just the disasociation with your physical?  Did you see any enormeous greek or  roman styled buildings?  Was everyone giving you kind of a confused look when they seen you?  Either way, I think you've touched on the next phase of obe'ing and I would really try to recreate that situation, if at all possible I would try it during the day, as its that much harder to blank out.  

happy journey's



I was in a pretty deep trance...I would say my mouth was completely dry (because when I get that deep, or sleep for that matter, i quit breathing through my nose and start with my mouth.)  Was it was strange...right when I felt like I reached the deepest part of the trance, everything became kind of clear.  Like I could think but not wake up my body.  Usually when I think to much in a trance it wakes me up right away.  But it was like I could think just like I was awake..on a few trains of thought at a time, and still keep this deep trance.  I dont remember seeing much of anything symbolic looking once it began because I was to busy dealing with the intense physical feeling it was creating.  I felt like an astronot being shot into space or something.  I dont know..It all happened so fast and intense.  It just became blinding after about 10 seconds.....

/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/You must try some of my purple berries.
I've been eating them for 6 or 7 weeks now, haven't got sick once.
Prolly keep us both alive.


Hi guys, interesting topic

I read with interest Robert Bruce's article on psychic protection, then I looked at the forums and this one struck as one that had some bite to it.

First of all I have been astral travelling for the past 20 years myself, I have had two negative experiences, both times I was extracted by my own inner wisdom, that is, I exploded into 'nowhere', I disappeared and woke up later.

These were the only negative experiences I have ever had. As a psychologist I have always questioned my own and others experiences to find the truth. My patients have also had some of these experiences.

In support of our topic, and of what Tyrone and Granade01 have said, the astral plane is made up of a lot of our own internal 'stuff'. If we are worried or stressed, a lot of our astral experiences will relfect that. If we are happy that too will be evident in our astral trips.

If we are psychotic, like some of my patients, then you have a high probability of dropping into astral planes that reflect that state of terror. You will find demons and the devil, but they will only reflect what is already inside you, fear.

I have met my father and friends who have passed away on many occassions. I have also been to the hights of wisdom but couldn't stay long except to enjoy the archetecture, these places I am sure exist. These experiences have been incredible, probably because so few people understand or accpet that this is possible.

What is upsetting is that people who think they know all about something that they have never experienced tell stories from their imagination or from their fear, and not truth. I suspect that stories of fear and evil come mostly from them.

Experiences on this earth plane, OOB. It is here that there do exist negative entities, they share our plane of existance, like dogs and cats and ants share our physical plane. The negative entities on this plane are generally quite harmless, it is the humans, or ex-humans that I have found to be more harmful than any devil or demon. And as for Greys, I agree with Tyrone, if they do exist, why would they bother?

Noel - astralc


Its kind of like an experience my girlfriend recently had.
I believe she had an OBE (or possibly two in the same week)...
but there was so much weird other excrement going on that perhaps her dream mind was awake as well, or maybe her unconscious mind didnt know what to make of what was going on..and they were just images manifesting themselves.
but many of the other things she described seemed to OBE'ish for a dream... (more obe'ish than my obe's hell!)...
she doesnt really read or care about this kind of stuff so its not like something that would be on her mind and cause her to dream about either.  She generally wants nothing to do with obe's because they scare her.

i think a lot of people see things either from their dream mind, or from their perceptions and they spout off these weird stories and end up making themselves and other people into the same stuff sound crazy.
Not to say that their is no astral life or anything like that..I mean ive seen a few odd things that im sure most likely really happened....because generally my obe's are very lucid..and very close to something thats not right sticks out like a sore thumb.....but i think a lot of people get a little weird about this kind of stuff and they'll will have a legitamate obe but freak out over something they saw and build it into something its not.

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