0 = infinity

[Awakened_Mind]

All I can say is that I can't wait until you pass on and leave behind this foolishness. 

Your teachers must be incredible light workers.

-AM

[Sharpe]

I can't see 0 as a circle.
There is no beginning and there is no end with 0, it's pure nothing.
Infinite is also not a circle but it does have a beginning, it just doesn't have an end.

[wow_nonamesleft]

Infinite would be more like a spiral.

[Sharpe]

Yeah exactly.

[Sharpe]

Sorry for the double post, but that spiral is a good idea, it should be used for the inifinity symbol instead of ∞.

[CFTraveler]

It seems to me that for a spiral to symbolize infinity it would have to end in a circle, wouldn't it?  If it has an ending it's not infinite.  So how do you tell the difference from the beginning to the end? (whoops, no end).  Do you see where I'm going with this?  What's the diff between going and coming back? Time? 

[ismusa]

Let's sum this whole thing up so it doesn't keep bothering us. 

Infinity has no beginning or no end.  It just plain and simply is.  We don't have faculties of understanding things beyond us because we are limited to few senses.  All things will perish and come to an end except our spirits and energy and God.

Something tells me that we are in something similar to the Matrix and that the true reality lies outside of all of this.  If God can say "be" and something will come into existence.  Then it means his thoughts affect reality.  He must have different properties than his creation in order for him to have enough energy to create something out of nothing.  things coming out of nothing has already been proven by quantum physics.  Tunneling and non-locality etc.  particles coming into and out of existence all the time.  Empty space is really not empty.

The simple conclusion to this big discussion is that trying to understand infinity and what is beyond us is like a dog trying to understand how machines work, it is beyond our understanding and we should not dwell into it because our life is too short.  So we should go and enjoy our short lives until we leave  this existence and finally learn everything.  There's going to be a new life ahead, we will feel new and reborn.

[Awakened_Mind]

I think the idea of infinite should remain as a circle or that horizontal 8. A spiral seems a little complex to represent in text. Not too mention since the invention of the spring most people see a spiral as having a beginning and an end.

-AM

[Sharpe]

Yeah but a spiral has no end, that's the beauty of it.
An 8 or a circle can have an end.
Spiral just keeps on going, it represents infinity.
However, a line also represents infinity, it also has no end.
But an horizontal 8 has all the lines in-view.
The spiral and the line can stretch out beyond existence.

But I still believe infinity is just an idea, it can never exist.

[Sharpe]

Sorry for the double post, but I'd like to add something.
Everything that has time or movement needs an end, it can't be infinite.

[Stookie]

The definition of a line is 2 points conntected. This would be a start and end. A circle has an infinite number of points - no beginning or end. A spiral, while it somewhat fits, would really only work if the top of the spiral connected to the bottom of the spiral, thereby making it a circle. If a line never truly stopped in a finite universe, it's because it "circled" back around into itself. The infinite symbol is just a twisted circle.

So yes, 0 could represent infinity.

[CFTraveler]

Thank you, Stookie, that's what I was trying to say.

[wow_nonamesleft]

I'm pretty sure a line goes on forever actually, your thinking of a line segment, but even a line segment can be infinite in a way. for example:

This is a line seg. ( 1 inch)
                           0  . ____.   1.0
                                  ^
I decide to pick the point at 1/3 of the way thru
          ~
that's 0.3, 3's repeat forever.

While a line segment has a definate begining and end, the points you can pick inside it is infinate, wether its 1 or 0.1248460346063346990531, but ofcourse its limited between 0 to 1.0, yet its still infinite between those numbers.

Now bend the line segment into a circle :  __ --->  U --->  O  

The circle is still 1 inch, but you can now pick your starting point.
                                                                   
By starting at point 0 you will end at point 0(or 1.0 same thing), because the begining is the end.

So what happens when you continue to walk the circle past the 'end' point?
Do you end up in 1.1 or 0.1?
if its 0.1, its still like a line segment, you made no progress after 1.0, even though you continue in the circle nothing new happens, you have a limit of 0 thru 1. What about the missing numbers between 1.0 to 0? It cant go .9 .8 .7, if your already at the begining!

If it continues on to 1.1, then any point of the circle is any number like 10, 100 or 10,000(in the same spot), but how can that be even possible? The only way that could happen if it was some kind of spiral or helix.

So, I dont see how a circle could properly represent infinite.

[Sharpe]

The definition of a line is 2 points conntected. This would be a start and end. A circle has an infinite number of points - no beginning or end. A spiral, while it somewhat fits, would really only work if the top of the spiral connected to the bottom of the spiral, thereby making it a circle. If a line never truly stopped in a finite universe, it's because it "circled" back around into itself. The infinite symbol is just a twisted circle.

So yes, 0 could represent infinity.

No, this is so wrong, it's the exact opposite.
A line isn't 2 points connected: (from wikipedia):A line can be described as an ideal zero-width, infinitely long, perfectly straight curve (the term curve in mathematics includes "straight curves") containing an infinite number of points. In Euclidean geometry, exactly one line can be found that passes through any two points. The line provides the shortest connection between the points.

It goes THROUGH 2 points, it doesn't stop or begin at either.

A circle doesn't have anything to do with infinity, it is just a curved line that has a beginning and an end.
Every line is in-view, nothing is left out.
But in spirals and line's, there is more beyond, so it's infinite. (theoreticly)

[Novice]

I personally don't like wikipedia -- you never know the source/accuracy of the information being posted.

Regardless, you are correct in that a straight line, by definition, runs through two points and can be considered infinite. However, I think it is commonly considered finite -- a perception that is not necessarily correct -- because it has a beginning and an end. The line may go on continuously, but there is always a starting point for one end of the line and the end point. Thus two points are the beginning and end of the line. So many perceive the fact that it has these two points, it must be finite.

A circle is considered infinite because it is completely round. You may be able to see all of the circle, but where does it start and end? Look at this:  0   Can you point to a specific spot in that zero and tell where it starts and ends? I can't. It is seemless. If you were to trace it, you would continue to go "in circles." That's where the saying came from, in fact. It is indicitive of having no end in sight -- hence infinite. Whereas when someone uses the term "make a straight line for..." whetever, it implies a limit, a direct path to a specific location -- not infinite.

This is the reason that a circle is typically used to represent infinity and not a line.

Although I have seen a spiral represented as infinity as well. In order for the spiral to make sense for me, personally, it would need to double back on it self and essentially be an elongated, spiraling circle.

[Stookie]

I think this is really just symbolism. Whatever works for one person...
When people get married they say the rings are used because they are a "circle", having no beginning and no end, representing an eternal bond. I found this:

The circle is a symbol that best represents connectedness, since all regular polygons are embraced by it. Since it is without beginning or end it also represents infinity. It is simplest figure and therefore finds representation in numerous cultures. In body ornaments it often represents fidelity, eternal love and commitment.

Here: http://nexusnovel.wordpress.com/2006/08/24/connectedness-the-circle-in-wedding-ring-steel-bracelet-kara/

But looking at it mathematically, I believe fractals and the Mandelbrot Set represent infinity better than anything else. When I get married we're going to wear T-shirts with multi-colored fractals on the front.

[Sharpe]

Circle can't be infinite, because it can be calculated by using Pi(perimiter of 0.5 radius).
But things like paraboles or lines or spirals, we can only know where they cut in the x or y axis.
A circle is the only thing where you see the finity.
You only need to know the position, the radius and the center.
A line for that instance, goes through till infinity.
Didn't you learn all this in mathematics?

[Novice]

Didn't you learn all this in mathematics?

Yes.

Didn't you read our posts?


I explained that within the confines of mathematics, your definition/explaination is correct.

We are not attempting to debate mathematic principals. In fact, we've conceded them in previous posts.

However, what we are suggesting is that an individual's perception of infinity is typically represented by the circle because of its shape -- regardless of how mathematics defines the shape. It's about symbolic interpretation of an object, not mathematical formulas. In this, we feel that the circle can be explained to represent infinity.

[Sharpe]

So I'm right, thank you.

[Awakened_Mind]

Was the disucssion initially about whether 0 can represent infinity, or whether nothingness and infinite were the same thing?

-AM

[Novice]

Well, the subject is 0=infinity. So I was discussing that.

I don't remember the first post, so maybe it strayed from the subject line?

[malganis]

1/0 = infinity

[Sharpe]

I didn't understand that last one.

[Awakened_Mind]

You can't divide a number by zero. It doesn't equal a number that goes on forever, it just simply cannot be done.

-AM

[malganis]

lim 1/a = infinity when a -> 0. Now it's more mathematicaly correct