Debating Consciousness

[lotuspaper]

Hello all,
Sometimes my Father and I have debates pertaining to spirituality. He is an atheist, and I consider myself a new-ager.
We recently came across the subject of consciousness.

His point of view: Consciousness is nothing more than chemicals in the brain that work together to create thoughts, emotions, and reactions. Then when we die, those chemicals cease to move, therefore you no longer exist (meaning there is no after-life).

So he basically believes that we are just highly evolved animals, and our intelligence and awareness are nothing more than chemical reactions.

I told him that I believe there is more to it than that. However, I didn't really have a response to counteract his point of view though, because I am still in the early stages of my spiritual path to enlightenment, including the studying of quantum physics. His statement got me thinking, almost to the point of believing it because I felt the skepticism of my ego kicking in. I need deeper understanding, that's why I'm making this thread.

Based on your knowledge, what are your opinions or even opposition on his statement?

I'll admit I am in a phase of confusion. Because of how I was raised, I do question a lot of things and want scientific explanations as well. On the other hand, I have had experiences (such as seeing orbs and being able to feel spiritual energy) that cannot be explained with science, so I know there is more than just this three dimensional "reality"...  but my Father thinks it's just all in my mind, and that the brain can convince itself to believe whatever it wants to.

[Lionheart]

 You are both allowed your own opinions on this, even if they differ from one another. Just believe what is in your heart and what you have already shown yourself to be true. You will likely never change his view, unitil he gets proof himself!  

[lotuspaper]

You are both allowed your own opinions on this, even if they differ from one another. Just believe what is in your heart and what you have already shown yourself to be true. You will likely never change his view, unitil he gets proof himself! 

I don't know what to believe, that's why I'm asking. I would just like theories and/or evidence from other people on this forum who believe consciousness is more than just chemical processes in the brain. I don't want to "believe" in something that I have no evidence or support on. I know that since consciousness isn't materialistic, is cannot be tested with science. My Father thinks that if there is no proof of existence, then it is crazy to believe in it. Which is why he thinks the concept of "faith" is ridiculous.

[Lionheart]

I don't know what to believe, that's why I'm asking. I would just like theories and/or evidence from other people on this forum who believe consciousness is more than just chemical processes in the brain. I don't want to "believe" in something that I have no evidence or support on. I know that since consciousness isn't materialistic, is cannot be tested with science. My Father thinks that if there is no proof of existence, then it is crazy to believe in it. Which is why he thinks the concept of "faith" is ridiculous.

Unfortunately there is no evidence to prove outwardly what Consciousness is. You just have to believe what you are personally being shown. I believe Consciousness is everything and everywhere. We are Conscious Energy ourselves!   

[lotuspaper]

Unfortunately there is no evidence to prove outwardly what Consciousness is. You just have to believe what you are personally being shown. I believe Consciousness is everything and everywhere. We are Conscious Energy ourselves!   

Well I know what my Father would say to this, which is, if there is no evidence then why believe in it?
See, this is why I'm always left feeling stumped and defeated by my him, perhaps even intimidated.

[Szaxx]

Hi,
Why not ask him to prove to you with evidence that theres no afterlife. Anyone can talk brain chemicals, that means nothing unless you own a PHD. Intimidate him with a well presented question. You'll feel better for it too.
Think wisely...

[Xanth]

Opinions are just thoughts...
Thoughts, ultimately, aren't really anything at all.

Stop thinking and you cease to exist as a human. 

[Stookie_]

If people were to look at thoughts as though they were tangible things, maybe they would take initiative to control their thinking habits. Thoughts are as real as material things.

Though this is a debate that never ends. God or no god? You can either believe it, not believe it, or keep an open mind until something convinces you one way or another. I think agnosticism can be healthy.

I have my own view of consciousness based on personal experiences, though I can't make others have those experiences, I can only encourage people to find their own.

[Volgerle]

Why not get your father to read a book on NDEs? Or remote viewing, or other parapsychological research topics? There's lot of good research out there. There's lot of evidence from accounts, also so-called 'validations' of people e.g. witnessing RTZ events. Let him read a book (e.g. by Pim v. Lommel or Dean Radin) and then discuss again. Maybe then he's a step ahead and more open to your concepts.

[KarmicBeats]

A computer is just a big complicated array of switches. So is consciousness. Our brains are just an interface device.  Consciousness comes from the quantum entanglements across the cells of the body and brain.  These entanglements make a vast and complicated array of switches that form consciousness which in turn forms our reality. 

So the brain is just an interface that we use to interact with the physical.  It gets more complicated but these connections are always being rewired from one set of quantum particulates to the next as we grow and move about.  So when we die the data that is us does not have to go away.  It is more likely that inertia will cause the connections to rewire themselves to another interface device.

[lotuspaper]

Thanks for all of your replies so far Again, Right now I'm in a phase of confusion, because I do want to understand my own beliefs. I want them to make logical sense. I feel that even though I've been on my spiritual path for 2 years now, I've only just scraped the surface to enlightenment and understanding.

We had another debate (ours are always peaceful don't worry ) and even though I will never be able to change his mind (which I'm not trying to do), I feel like I made good points to where he was unable to stump me.

[Lionheart]

We had another debate (ours are always peaceful don't worry ) and even though I will never be able to change his mind (which I'm not trying to do), I feel like I made good points to where he was unable to stump me.

You don't have to change his mind. This is where your problem is. Just stay with you have your opinion and he has his. Someday you or he may see differently, but for now let it go. Work on yourself and you will see that in intself will rub off on him!  
Unless of course that this is the way you two communicate, bond and have father and son time together. If it is, then argue on my friend! 

[Stillwater]

Alot of people at a young age I feel are attracted to beliefs which they know they can't substantiate per se, but which they sort of take as a bundle.

For instance, there are many Christians who are of the opinion that they cannot prove their beliefs scientifically, but they understand that their beliefs give them emotional strength and a system of ethics or compassion they can believe in; but that is the thing- you can still have a system of ethics and positivity in your life without having to justify it with this or that metaphysical system.

For instance, perhaps you feel strong attachment to your belief system because it feels like a unified whole to you, and as a system you feel it improves your worldview, and lends you something to stand on. But it is also possible to take all the things about it that you feel give you strength or stillness, and put them on one side, and take all the ideas you can't really prove or disprove and put them on another side.

For instance, just because you can't prove that you have had past lives, or that there will be a fifth dimensional ascension, or any other idea like that, doesn't mean you can't take the joy it has given you, or the stillness of meditation, or the drive to practice compassion, and practice them all for what they are, outside of any doctrinal context.

[lotuspaper]

You don't have to change his mind. This is where your problem is. Just stay with you have your opinion and he has his. Someday you or he may see differently, but for now let it go. Work on yourself and you will see that in intself will rub off on him! 
Unless of course that this is the way you two communicate, bond and have father and son time together. If it is, then argue on my friend! 

As I said before in the parenthesis, I'm not trying to change his mind at all. We just like to have debates on various topics like sophists used to do

[Lionheart]

We just like to have debates on various topics like sophists used to do

Well then it looks like the second part of my quote applies here then! 

[AstralCody]

I knew something was up when I fell out of my bed and then laughed and said, wow I just fell out my bed, haven't done that in ages! oh.... There is my body laying on my bed and I have ghostly looking hands... I CAN FLOAT?! Did I just die? No doubt in my mind we live forever.

[todd421757]

I knew something was up when I fell out of my bed and then laughed and said, wow I just fell out my bed, haven't done that in ages! oh.... There is my body laying on my bed and I have ghostly looking hands... I CAN FLOAT?! Did I just die? No doubt in my mind we live forever.

This is awesome AstralCody. This type of projection prepares you for the death experience, so you can have a continuity of awareness upon death. This type of projection is what I strive for everyday.

[AstralCody]

Hey Todd!
Keep at it you will get there! See I was actually napping at the time. It was my first projection. I had been phasing for about 3 weeks... All of a sudden I rolled out and saw myself laying in bed. I have never been so aware in my life. A lot of OBE's you can sometimes be like... That sure was dreamy... This was the most powerful OBE I ever had. Was just napping. Had so much intent.

I remember I had a headache after the OBE which I read is normal too. I would keep floating to my room checking on my body... Just was laying there snoozin. hehe

[Taoistguy]

Thanks for all of your replies so far Again, Right now I'm in a phase of confusion, because I do want to understand my own beliefs. I want them to make logical sense. I feel that even though I've been on my spiritual path for 2 years now, I've only just scraped the surface to enlightenment and understanding.

We had another debate (ours are always peaceful don't worry ) and even though I will never be able to change his mind (which I'm not trying to do), I feel like I made good points to where he was unable to stump me.

Relax. Calm down. Chill.
You want to 'understand' your own beliefs?
You 'want them to make logical sense'?

What do you define as 'logical'?
If you are having certain experiences, then accept them and trust in yourself.
Your father is a believer in what he believes. He has faith in it.
If he ever has an experience other to what he believes, he'll either deny it or try to rationalise it. But he may accept it and start to come round to your way of thinking.
But the most important thing is to love yourself.