The Illussion of Space

[New Earth]

This is a similar model of what Ryan calls concave earth but not quiet the same. In his book "Worlds Beyond the Poles" Amadeo Giannini states that telescope lens causes an illusion of a sphere. He writes that that earth is endless north and south and that beyond the poles there is infinite land that connects all planets. He gives famous Admiral Byrd's expedition beyond the north and south poles as an example. Giannini also says that space and all the stars and spherical planets are an illusion that an eye picks up when looking upwards. He believes that there are celestial lands, infinite worlds just beyond the poles.

I do not know if our current reality can be described as such and whether or not space is real or an illusion. However I did have a vision of a new universe and it was very similar to what Giannini describes. The dark empty void of space that extends light years upon light years was all replaced by paradise landmasses, infinite celestial worlds that extended forever in each direction. There were still "spherical planets" But they were built in within a fabric of celestial paradise (land) This new universe is an endless "earth" with mountains, oceans, forests and great cities and civilizations that is so beautiful that its hard to even imagine. Water falls of finest chocolate and palaces of the most fine gold can be found in this amazing realm.

I'm not sure exactly how the spherical planets will fit into this whole new creation but I don't think it really matters that much. I guess I will entrust this to a creator. Question is why not to get rid of spherical planets concept all together? But something tells me they are still important and must still exist.

[Ryan Onessence]

I feel that this is true and that there are multi-dimensional functions to the pole openings...Imagination is the limit. The Perception of a flat earth seems natural, enlightenment  seems to be that the less one "thinks" they know about rigid unchanging facts - believed absolutes and such the closer they get to being en-lightened and to ascension. Give it a go even if its only to   pretend that it might be true that the earth can be/is flat...And let me know what changes about your internal feelings and dynamic of oriented awareness.

Mostly I think its to do with aligning to the horizontal axis of infinity which round earth perception kinda deviates from it tends to give us a very definite sense of upward endlessness but not outward. when perception aligns to endlessness in all directions it is a very amazing feeling of completeness similar to but not quite the same as feeling like th eearth is concave.. in that context it gives one a definite sense of reference to the cosmic centre which aligns-oneself somewhat nicely as well...If one treats the concave earth as being a massive sphere we can also entertain a concave universe-size earth as well (even expanding-via implosion). We may even be on/in this massive concave earth right now without realising that the arching nature of light is producing these perceptual illusions of a convex earth surface whereby the sun is a new sun each day of a great many (I suggest one reads the concave earth thread to grasp what is being inferred about lights curving illusion's)

What are convex regular Copernican planets may somehow integrated via their poles into this massive concavo-sphere earth plane whereby each world is experienced as a flat earth (locally speaking due to the vastness) and what are perceived as the south poles upon this concavo-sphere are actually what is a third pole in the middle band of a double torus fields equator disk (same torsional phenomenon responsible for a galaxies disk) so that Antarctica for instance is in the middle band of the flat earth disk and beyond is a third pole i.e. the rim/flat earth sphereical boundary which repulses all matter toward the middle-Antarctic-pole. Accounting for natural circumnavigation except by repulsion...like if one trys to get a small magnet to go against a large one it will veare off in one or the other direction...i.e. why flight paths of planes avoid the poles

the Arctic north pole in the falt earth model of torsion based physics is at the very central axis of the disk/torus field. So the picture im painting here is all planets spread out as disks which cover the inner or outer surface of a massive shell like sphere earth they may also even be separated by a membrane of aetheric energy (I'm saying this rhetorically however I feel it to be true/possible). The disk like equator zone of the concaveosphere master cosmic torus would then be the place in which all these falt earth versions (higher aetheric planes/octaves) of every copernican/concave earth planet then converge all thier positive polarity attributes into as the first level (2nd heaven) of celestian lands... I do feel that this is the penultimate level of fractal existence but I also feel there is one beyond it which transcends fractal reality constructs and is the land of pure consciousness, 1st heaven the ultimate Paradise plane which is truly infinite. Terra Christa is a term I have seen someone use which I think is rather fitting.  

[Ryan Onessence]

http://www.ourultimatereality.com/forums/the-omniverse-t2122.0.html

This will help with comprehending the nuts and bolts of this framework of reality

[New Earth]

You made a very good point Ryan. We were taught to believe that up is infinite yet outward is finite and globular. This perception is caused by 3D matrix limitation. As you said, the feeling of perfection and completeness only comes when we view earth as infinite plain, rather then a globe.

[CFTraveler]

Amadeo Giannini states that telescope lens causes an illusion of a sphere.

What telescope lens?
And what about pictures of the earth taken from satellites?

Are you talking about astral perception, or physical perception?

[NoY]

so the world is flat lol , cool i will go tell my mum 


:NoY:

[New Earth]

Giannini wrote the book in the 1950's that is before we lunched anything into space. Also what makes you think that NASA is telling the truth about the true shape of the earth? The first man in space Yuri Gagarin was killed by the Soviet government short after he returned from his mission to "space", did you know that? What did he see in space and what did he report back that was so secretive that he lost his life over it. Think about it. Can it be that the earth is not a globe? May be, just a speculation.

In any case whether our world is flat or round, globes do symbolize 3D limitations. The 5D world has to be an endless plain. And since we are heading toward 5D I believe that the new earth will be infinite in size. It will replace space as we know it. Revelation chapter 21 says "I will create new heavens and the new earth" Why would the creator replace one globe with another globe. I think the whole design is gonna be quiet new and different from what we have now. In my vision it is an infinite plain, in your vision dear Noy it might be something else. No need to mock me or telling your mom about it lol

[CFTraveler]

Err..... the ancient greeks knew the earth was round thousands of years ago, and they didn't need telescopes to prove it.  Simple observation with a little trig was enough to demonstrate it.
It was in the middle ages that they got less educated (you know, with the book burnings and all) and started to believe the earth was flat, which is why Columbus' voyage was considered such a big deal.
Here is how Eratosthenes, who was a greek scholar that lived in 275-194 B.C. in Alexandria (Egypt) did it:  During the summer solstice, he heard that on that day the sun is reflected perfectly in a deep well in Syene. But at the same time and same day, in Alexandria, the sun wasn't reflected perfectly in the same type of well.   Different shadows, same time.
It occured to him that the only way that could  happen is if the earth was not flat. Using simple trigonometry, he managed to calculate the radius and diameter of the earth.
Here, try this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=56K1sj70X24&feature=player_embedded

I can't imagine how thinking the world is twodimensional (flat) is 'more open thinking' than 3Dimensional- in fact the current understanding of modern science is that there are approximately twelve dimensions (if not more) in our current corner of the universe, but to try to go back to a medieval understanding of the planet is-well- suspect, IMO.  Unless it's influenced by a literalized understanding of metaphorical language.
More dimensions!  Not less.

[Ryan Onessence]

Err..... the ancient greeks knew the earth was round thousands of years ago, and they didn't need telescopes to prove it.  Simple observation with a little trig was enough to demonstrate it.
It was in the middle ages that they got less educated (you know, with the book burnings and all) and started to believe the earth was flat, which is why Columbus' voyage was considered such a big deal.
Here is how Eratosthenes, who was a greek scholar that lived in 275-194 B.C. in Alexandria (Egypt) did it:  During the summer solstice, he heard that on that day the sun is reflected perfectly in a deep well in Syene. But at the same time and same day, in Alexandria, the sun wasn't reflected perfectly in the same type of well.
It occured to him that the only way that could  happen is if the earth was not flat. Using simple trigonometry, he managed to calculate the radius and diameter of the earth.
Here, try this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=56K1sj70X24&feature=player_embedded

I can't imagine how thinking the world is twodimensional (flat) is 'more open thinking' than 3Dimensional- in fact the current understanding of modern science is that there are approximately twelve dimensions (if not more) in our current corner of the universe, but to try to go back to a medieval understanding of the planet is-well- suspect, IMO.
More dimensions!  Not less.

Please lets not delve in silly semantics we all now flat is not 2D... Flat is a quality of a 3D object... the ground you stand - whether it is globe or not - is "locally" flat.

it actually takes more dimensions to explain a flat earth version of the cosmos... and is part of what imploversial physics and the omniverse threads I have posted here, cover... try read links before making biased statements.

As for the observations of Eratosthenes and the ancient trig math, these were still based on assumptions that light travels in a straight line.

What if light actually bends... even stranger what if what you see as luminous objects in the sky are actually reflecting bent light and exist on the other end of the bend that cannot be detected... i.e. where you are actually looking is not where the object is.

...........
As of 24/02/11 it has been announced by the International Science Grid that NASA has a mathematician Grigor Aslanyan, a doctoral student at the University of California at San Diego who is solving data that suggests the universe is a torus - see Grigor Aslanyan: Universal Torus.



Notice a double torus field can have a disc produced by the converging vortexes...It is synonymous with the disk of a galaxy and the fact that the cosmos at large appears to be spread out on a plater The Universe is perfectly flat

It is believed the Torus' dimensions could be of 3 variation.

a. Infinite in 1 dimension and finite in 2.
b. the vice of a
c. finite in all 3

these arrangements of a Torus' 3 dimensions correspond with 3 different cosmic codes of creation.
i.e.

1. Copernican (convex earth - see
Imploversial Physics section 2
Specifically: 2.3 The Macro-physical Dynamics of Gravity & Fractal Infinity),

2. Ancient/instinctual (flat earth see -Tetra Dimensional Torus (TDT) FE Model

3 Geocosm (concave earth - see the Concave Earth Hypothesis )

[CFTraveler]

I'm all for a toroid universe/multiverse- also for the idea that the physical is only one in a range in which life can manifest... but the op is quoting a flat-earth proponent based on his interpretation of scripture and what may well be his astral experience, and projecting it into the phenomenal world, completely ignoring what is sense information.  Something as simple as a plane or boat ride shows the curvature of the earth, for example- no need to measure or read reports.

[Ryan Onessence]

I'm all for a toroid universe/multiverse- also for the idea that the physical is only one in a range in which life can manifest... but the op is quoting a flat-earth proponent based on his interpretation of scripture and what may well be his astral experience, and projecting it into the phenomenal world, completely ignoring what is sense information.  Something as simple as a plane or boat ride shows the curvature of the earth, for example- no need to measure or read reports.

True however are you familiar with this fact:

indigenous peoples before being and educated and taken out of the holistic mind/heart perception that they innately experience (which perceives the immediate surroundings i.e. the earth as flat) can only interpret pictures on a television as 2d slabs of random colour...they have no depth perception when looking at a screen... Sort of like how when one looks out a closed side window of a travelling vehicle, if one focuses directly at the glass... all behind it is non defined - a blur. However if they look beyond it they get depth of the environment outside.

This is how uneducated secluded indigenous peoples are because they don't understand the concept that its possible to have a picture taken let alone a screen which plays back moving images. its all de-coherent to them.

in "What the Bleep do we know" series. The famous story that was described about the shaman being the only one who could see the Spaniards boats when they arrived - at the central american shores, is indicative of this phenomena also. The tribes people could not see it, the shaman being a perception seeker however, could.

Would it not be reasonable to consider that maybe if there are multiple ways an earth can take form and be experienced via perception that the perception is the fundamental cause for the reality... Therefore one would conclude that Copernicanism is a perception in mass effect and nothing more - valid none the less but still it is limited and it is the foundation for all limitations in the 3D world. what if the 5D is a dimension which actually quantum entangles and strings together all worlds via a mass of seamlessly imperceptible quantum wormholes operating in unison which effectively causes some sort of warping in the landmass as it s to unfold on a platter.

Also I quote what i said before:

What if light actually bends... even stranger what if what you see as luminous objects in the sky are actually reflecting bent light and exist on the other end of the bend that cannot be detected... i.e. where you are actually looking is not where the object is.

Inversion geometry explains how the curvature can be produced by bending light entering an eye which itself is inatley curved like a fish eye lens, so close stuff doesnt deviat to much but far away things do...

[New Earth]

Like Ryan pointed out, the infinite flat earth is not 2D. Its more like a 3D plain. An average citizen on this current earth also does not experience any curvature at all. Walk outside, the ground is 2D, so is the sky. However because we have up and down left and right we recognize that we are on a 3D world. Why can't you apply same concept to flat infinite plain? On infinite earth there are also vertical and horizontal directions, except that they don't curve, they are endless. (not very hard to grasp)

No if you fly on the airplane you do not see a curvature either, commercial airplanes only fly at 35,000 feet from where the world still looks flat, trust me I flew hundreds of times. A pilot told me that you can only see the curvature of the earth once you reach the altitude of 60,000 feet. Well I have never flown that high, only military jets are allowed to go that high. So basically average citizens have no evidence that earth is round, and solely rely on the information given to them by established academia and the government, correct? Indeed so.

You mentioned that the ancient Greeks knew that the world was round? The ancient Greeks also believed in Mount Olympus and in the gods that reside there. Whenever there was a thunder in the sky, they claimed that Zeus caused it? Do you believe that as well? So much for ancient Greeks science right? lol

[CFTraveler]

It's not 'ancient greek science'.  It's simple measurement.  If you go outside and look at the horizon, can you walk to the last object you see in it?  If the earth were flat, you could see much farther than the last thing you see.  If the earth were flat, how could you then go around it on a boat or a plane?  We know how the earth is built, why don't planes keep going on forever or reach space when they run out of plain?  And if it is 'forever', how can planes go all over the world and back?
I can't even believe you're comparing simple logic and math to mythology.

[Ryan Onessence]

It's not 'ancient greek science'.  It's simple measurement.  If you go outside and look at the horizon, can you walk to the last object you see in it?  If the earth were flat, you could see much farther than the last thing you see.  If the earth were flat, how could you then go around it on a boat or a plane?  We know how the earth is built, why don't planes keep going on forever or reach space when they run out of plain?  And if it is 'forever', how can planes go all over the world and back?
I can't even believe you're comparing simple logic and math to mythology.

There is something which the people at TFES (the flat earth society) - note: I'm not  exclusively a flat earther I'm an Omni Earther - Anyway, they talk about the bedford level experiment. This experiment was where a Lady and a man both independently conducted the same experiment (in different decades) in a body of water where they used a telescope to see beyond the horizon line. This they attest "proves" the earth is flat. It of coarse can be interpreted in other ways.

For instance: perhaps the horizon line is merely the limit of perception, if you understand that everything is comprised of toroids then your Aura is a Toroid also. So to are the fundamental Spiritual/EMF faculties of your eye based on a series of Toroids, from the fundamental electrical field encompassing it in the metaphysical bands to the micro quantum - particles of its physical properties etc. Your Aura being a spheroid thus has certain limit of its outer scope...In the highest level of spiritual based sciences (reki for one asserts this) it is considered that oneself has 232 chakras in total... There are the basic 7 that are known via the ancient hindu proponents.

There are also said to be at least 15 major chakras including the contemporary known 7 of which encompass the Auric Toroid beyond the physical and metaphysical bodies. These other chakras are connected with the universe at large and extend along the horizontal axis of the pranic tube beyond the first layer of the human toroids 7 bodied chakra field: the 7 bodied field is akin to the sun's physical properties and the extra chakras are akin to how the sun has a heliosphere beyond it which encompass the entire solar system. Both aspects (the suns observable physical properties and the heliosphere) are fundamental systems like a series of toroids nestled within each other. Likewise the human toroid system have fields beyond which treat the base seven as a single component inside another toroid like nestled Russian dolls. These extra major chakras connect with the quantum micro cosmos through micro chakras (which total 232) inbetween them both in the physical/metaphysical bodies and in the fields above akin to the heliosphere-like aspect of ones self which spans the total area of ones sensory perception i.e. the horizon line. Thus the extra 8 major chakras are suspended above and below the fundamental 7 bodied experiential vessel or Merkaba field. The highest frequency chakra typically connects with the earth's fundamental EMF field and it is there that a resonance occurs with the earth torus and the individual. transmitting sensory information both physically and metaphysically.  

If you go outside and look at the horizon, can you walk to the last object you see in it?  If the earth were flat, you could see much farther than the last thing you see.

The last thing you see is so small that it is at the same threshold as the adjacent blue sky, (at the very convergence line of the land of the horizon and the sky). there is no way to say that the blue sky is further than the land at the horizon line because it is lit up by the sunlight at the very same level of sensory threshold. get on a flat stretch and there is no way to discern.

Even on infinite earth one would not be able to see forever under the current known function of sensory perception...light that we see has travelled for large distances, for a long time so we are not see stars as far away as they are, only the light that has reached our sensory threshold...

If the current 3D earth were flat and infinite one still could not see forever with current 3D physical laws of sensory perception.

If they could they would effectively be seeing land outstretched forever continuing upward from ones line of sight and the horizon line would be infinitely further away i.e. you could not see.

If one is in 5D on infinite earth they will have current sensory perception limits unless otherwise desired to see further i.e. the horizon still rests at eye level yet if wanting to see further the content at the edge of the horizon will begin to cycle in closer like binoculars or extendible eye sight (a zoom effect).  

BTW did you know, Anaxagora the greek philosopher, was the only one to understand the holistic principles of which were the findings in quantum physics. Whereby each thing is capable of replicating the whole and being able to become any one given quality whilst also containing the informational potential to become all other things. He also belived the earth was flat long after the others had declared it a sphere. look at what is told happened to him, they chased him out of the city denounced him as a heathen all becasue he believed the earth to still be flat and understood how to explain physics that the Globular advocate's did not wish to believe was true. which has more or less been unveild as a fesible model of quantum physicas via david bohm.

[Ryan Onessence]

This here is a video I found linked on TFES

@http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2602284039812956586&hl=en

It is old, so some of the explanations are rather comical...(FE cosmology requires string theory/Torsional Physics to explain it adequately - in a manner that accounts for both optical illusions of the current perceptual observations of the physical world and gravity) They also use conspiratorial means to avoid addressing certain issues claiming NASA are fake. The Torsion based explanation does not resort to this however. It instead capitalizes on inversion geometry Implosive space and arching light. Tho the video will help one understand how the circumnavigation effect is accomplished on a FE.

takes this idea into account and applies what I stated earlier and it makes sense:

the south poles upon FE is a third pole in the middle band of a double torus fields equator disk (same torsional phenomenon responsible for a galaxies disk) so that Antarctica for instance is in the middle band of the flat earth disk and beyond is a third pole i.e. the rim/flat earth sphereical boundary which repulses all matter toward the middle-Antarctic-pole. Accounting for natural circumnavigation except by repulsion...like if one trys to get a small magnet to go against a large one it will veare off in one or the other direction...i.e. why flight paths of planes avoid the poles

[CFTraveler]

Very interesting Ryan.  What do you think of the theory that all of 'this' is a hologram that is projected from the event horizon of a black hole, and we're the information?  I find it strangely appealing.

[Ryan Onessence]

It resonates with me somewhat as well. For several years I have been having bizarre experiences which can only be explained if 3D Copernican based reality is indeed holographic and binary based. Since th elate-mid 80's Science has "known" that the rest of the cosmos outside our solar system is set in series of binary systems with twin sun's of which slingshot each other through the galaxies arms. Our solar system on the other hand is unique... we do not have a twin sun. So that there in one way is indication that we are different (as the flat erthers say when asked about why other planets are spherical "earth is unique" ) It also corresponds with the Concave (inverted earth) Geocosmos perspective.

I feel through my own exercising of perception, that the cosmos is fractal like Russian dolls.  Each part of the whole contains the whole and replicates all that occurs outside of it within...Geocosmos is the epitome of this concept whereby a planet is a cosmic cell and all that is outside is inverted within. So as far as I see it either way if one entertains Copernican perspective or Geocosmos there is a Concave Earth surrounding the outer boundary of the cosmos. Of coarse if one is entertaining Copernican perspective of a Convex earth within, the concave earth of the cosms boundary is operating on the highest band of space. So light reflecting off the Concave earth boundary it is not seen by those within the inverted Copernican cosm at the level of which it illuminates the concave earth, it would be far to wide a frequency for the eyes of those upon convex worlds within to interpret the actual content of what it is reflecting... although, interestingly enough there is a phenomenon in astro physics which is that when telescopes are pointed in a specific direction the universe is actually lit up with a bright light...why don't we see it with the naked eye? the frequency length is to wide.

Now to get back to what I was getting at with binary sun solar systems and ours being seemingly the only unique one of a single sun... They believe its about 90% binary orbit to 10% single suns...however chances are they just haven't seen the binary sun connection's of the other 10% in which case brings us back to my answer to your question... I'm going to deliver it rhetorical format, however I feel this is fact.

Is earth the centre of the cosmos, the planet which completes the fractal circuit back to the higher 4D/5D Geocosms octave. If it is does that mean that we exist in two places (or more) at once. Does perceiving convex earth fragment awareness and make it feel small and insignificant... I think so. Within Concave perspective one feels like the galaxies beyond are mere specks entrained at the quantum level through the aetheric densities of space and then into their being (somewhat like your question about the information of a black hole on the event horizon).

I think that the reason why so many want to keep Copernican perspective proliferate is because other perspectives are not as heavily engrained in a feedback system which feeds into the mass psych entrained to Copernican convex world view and all the fear based survival problems that accompany the mass psyche.

[ZiggyMike]

Ships's visibility
Lunar Eclipse
Circumnavigation
Sunrise and sunset
Shapes of other earth like objects like sun moon

All these can prove that the earth is round.
But what if we think the earth is round because reality is shaping around us to keep up with our percerption or thoughts. Just a thought thought. So in essence, no one is necessarily wrong.

[Ryan Onessence]

Ships's visibility
Lunar Eclipse
Circumnavigation
Sunrise and sunset
Shapes of other earth like objects like sun moon

All these can prove that the earth is round.
But what if we think the earth is round because reality is shaping around us to keep up with our percerption or thoughts. Just a thought thought. So in essence, no one is necessarily wrong.

That's exactly what I'm getting at... Its all 3 at once. according to how you perceive it...

If one perceives the matrices of spherical curvature i.e. internalising the assumption/reality of others on the opposite side of the world and all the way round then one has an entrainment with finitism regarding spacial awareness of closed spherical space...

However If one can release that and perceive the world as animals do with little to no logistical understandings i.e. the immediate perception... Sky is a dome, earth is flat... then you release yourself of the spherical internalisation and exist in open space (alignment with the horizontal axis of infinity -- this is harder to do whilst entertaining a global perception)...

Give it a go.. even if its just a form of perceptual experiment and you don't really believe its possible that all three realities exist at once. The effect is very grounding. It will be harder to feel that if you only entertain it as a perceptual shift and not a possible reality.