http://unlimitedboundaries.ca/2010/10/18/what-is-the-physical/
What follows is me just... thinking outloud. :)
I was reading more of John Magnus' book last night, "Astral Projection and the Nature of Reality" and I got to the part where he's explaining what he feels the "Physical" is. He also has it posted on his facebook group page too.
It really got me thinking about the wider reality and how the physical is situated within that reality and all of the connective layers therein.
What if this physical reality is nothing more than just another "astral environment". Sure, this reality feels very solid, and it's very much more resistant to thought-changes, but in the end, this is just one large, collective astral environment created out of the energy of the nonphysical as a place to learn and experience.
In the near future, I predict that quantum mechanics or some other branch of science will end up figuring out that the base material that everything in this physical reality is comprised of is this astral/nonphysical energy. Or, perhaps we could say... consciousness?
Then I got to asking myself what is the place that we dream, how does it connect and how do we enter this physical reality to begin with? What is the nonphysical area of consciousness where we do our dreaming each night and where we "astral" project? What if through this area we are connected to the collective consciousness area OUTSIDE of this physical reality. Perhaps to exist within these physical bodies, we're required to kind of 'drill' our consciousness through the outside barrier connecting to these bodies using a 'tunnel' of sorts. This tunnel is the "astral"... a thin strand of nonphysical reality that we pull into this physical reality that serves as a connection to the rest of the consciousness continuum.
What if we thought of the physical reality as being a balloon. How would you place your consciousness within the balloon? Well, there would be connecting points within the balloon already, we call them our "bodies"... then you would pierce your consciousness through the barrier of the balloon taking a small stream of nonphysical "connective" energy with you which would keep you linked to the collective consciousness. You'd drill further into the balloon until you came into contact with your "body".
So then, once our physical bodies die... this strand of nonphysical "connective" energy would retract back to the astral, hence removing the "dream" area permanently. We would have no need of this "astral tunnel" after the fact. However, would it then be possible to perhaps, albeit temporarily, push our way through that barrier just to visit this physical reality as, say, what people would refer to as a "ghost"?
So, it makes sense to me that this entire physical reality is simply an astral construct. A construct that is comprised of the base material of the nonphysical reality. I mean, as we try to break down matter, we find that it's less and less dense the deeper we go. How far down the rabbit hole does it go exactly?
Any of this make any sense? :)
"Life is but a dream"
I agree with you xanth the world is far more liquid than we realise
:NoY:
I'll second the premise.
QuoteWhat if this physical reality is nothing more than just another "astral environment". Sure, this reality feels very solid, and it's very much more resistant to thought-changes, but in the end, this is just one large, collective astral environment created out of the energy of the nonphysical as a place to learn and experience.
(In Homer Simpson's voice): "That's what I've been trying to tell you!"
For real though, the entire physical is more than just what we call "the physical", it's etheric & astral as well. It's all one unit of consciousness. In the end, consciousness is the only thing you can call "real". If a person doesn't come to this experience, they're going to be searching "out there" for answers to reality when it's right in front of them all the time. All the astral projection in the world won't help.
QuoteIn the near future, I predict that quantum mechanics or some other branch of science will end up figuring out that the base material that everything in this physical reality is comprised of is this astral/nonphysical energy. Or, perhaps we could say... consciousness?
Quantum physics pretty much already has. There is a lot of evidence that points to an illusory reality. People aren't enamored by it because the science is over most people's heads.
And overall, not many want to believe that their lives aren't what they thought they were. It's ego-crushing.
Quote from: Stookie on October 18, 2010, 14:04:53
And overall, not many want to believe that their lives aren't what they thought they were. It's ego-crushing.
I can totally understand that!
Although, for me it's the exact opposite... it's driving me to learn more and more. LoL
Exactly! It's my driving force as well. I mean, once your ego gets smashed to bits, you don't have a lot else to lose.
QuoteQuantum physics pretty much already has. There is a lot of evidence that points to an illusory reality. People aren't enamored by it because the science is over most people's heads.
I love this.
So, the physical *IS* the non physical.
What you think about it in that way... it really changes your entire outlook on life.
For me, it changes from a struggle... to a pure learning experience.
QuoteWhat you think about it in that way... it really changes your entire outlook on life.
Yeah, you can prioritize a little more clearly. With that perspective, a life focused completely on work and making money and retirement is a wasted life. I mean, if you're going to "wake up" eventually, that stuff is worthless. They may lead to worthwhile experiences, but in themselves, worthless.
haven't the buddhists and such been telling us that for years?
it is certainly a different story when you feel it instead of know it.
John Magnus is the man! That book has lead me to this forum a few years back! :evil:
Well, now you can talk to THE MAN personally!
Come join his Forums!
http://www.johnmagnus.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl
and
Facebook group!
http://www.facebook.com/pages/John-Magnus-Astral-Projection-and-the-Nature-of-Reality/152905561406506
:)
ALL THANKS TO PR!!!
BOW TO YOUR GOD!!!!!
Quote from: Xanth on October 19, 2010, 10:32:14
So, the physical *IS* the non physical.
What you think about it in that way... it really changes your entire outlook on life.
When you can actually SEE IT as non physical , its even better!
You can actually see energy around people and objects, see the energy going into and around your body while doing energy work.. you can see what some people call the etheric, "fabric of existence" , whatever u wanna call it.. but you can see the energy/light particles in the air moving itself.
When you've built up enough energy.. and with the right energy work.. you can see and perceive all this with your 3rd eye.
Seeing the physical as non-physical is very normal for some people. In everyday waking life.
Well, let's take this one step further then...
http://unlimitedboundaries.ca/2010/11/02/the-physical-is-an-astral-environment/
In the non-physical what we think becomes reality, any stray thought that comes to mind will instantly come into being in full technicolour 3D right in front of your non-physical eyes. Now, what if I said that this also happens here in the Physical as well?
Take instances of hauntings where items are flung around the room... is that some outside force doing the flinging or is it the person in the room doing the flinging and not realizing that their subconscious thoughts are initiating this reaction?
What about supposed miracles that happen throughout the world? People with Terminal Diseases suddenly and for inexplicable reasons being cured permanently. Is this really a miracle? Or the person healing themselves by subconsciously desiring AND believing it.
And there are more unexplained instances, like that of people lifting cars and trucks to free loved ones trapped beneath... the list goes on and on.
What if these acts we think are coming from outside of us are actually coming FROM WITHIN US. This would mean that our thoughts DO have a direct impact upon our physical reality and what we experience. What if the trick isn't simply believing it? What if the trick was going BEYOND believing and stepping into KNOWING?
It's just a thought. :)
That's how I see the world. The physical is thought- responsive, but not in the same as the astral- that is because the wavelengths are much longer in the so-called physical end of the spectrum, and this makes the uncertainty principle almost nonexistent (note I said nonexistent). So manifestation takes time and space to happen, but it does happen.
from my practices it seems like we use thought to affect the astral which in turn affects the physical. it's like the aboriginal dreamtime, all of physical reality is spawned from the dreamtime. so a shaman who is skilled in working with and in the dreamtime can more easily manipulate the physical by going to the dreamtime.
personally, when i perform any kind of ritual i acknowledge that the physical tools are just symbolic of astral energy forms. for example, i may perform a ritual with a piece of quartz. it's not necessarily the physical piece of quartz as much as the astral energy that is symbolized by quartz that does the work.
To take that a bit further... I have a theory about these Ghost Hunting shows on tv.
My theory is that the hunters themselves are the ones subconsciously manifesting the "evidence" that they find.
I'd actually love to do an experiment...
Basically, I'd like to outfit a team with something that monitors their brainwaves... then as evidence is "found", I'd like to correlate the time they found it with what brainwaves they were outputting at the time. My hope is that there would be some clear spike or dip during that point in time.
Might be interesting.
do they make portable brainwave monitors?
Quote from: Xanth on November 12, 2010, 13:16:50
To take that a bit further... I have a theory about these Ghost Hunting shows on tv.
My theory is that the hunters themselves are the ones subconsciously manifesting the "evidence" that they find.
I'd actually love to do an experiment...
Basically, I'd like to outfit a team with something that monitors their brainwaves... then as evidence is "found", I'd like to correlate the time they found it with what brainwaves they were outputting at the time. My hope is that there would be some clear spike or dip during that point in time.
Might be interesting.
I always think that when they get EVPs- it seems that the 'voices' could be one of their hunters' thoughts. Especially when they go to a foreign country and the 'spirits' say something in English.
It seems to me that if EVPs are some sort of disturbance in the electrical matrix, perhaps the living person's thoughts could be (at least) amongst the ones that are recorded that way.
I'm not sure about the practicality of being wired while doing a hunt (especially in the field, seems cumbersome) but I'd like for a 'control' person to write a series of words down, and then think them on purpose while doing the hunt, and see if they come about in the results.
How about that, Ghost Hunters, if you're reading this? Do you think you can oblige us? It would mean a lot to some of us. I know it's not 'scientific' or 'foolproof', since only you know if you thought the words, but it would be one more criteria to use as a debunking method.
:-D
I think every physical object is a reflection of a thought, just like the whole physical universe is the reflection of the Astral. For example, vomiting means purifying yourself from the negtive energy, negative thoughts. I drank Ayahuasca and when I was vomiting, I could openly see that I was throwing snakes, horrfying, disgusting entities from my mouth-LOL. That is the negative energy, negative thoughts.
I see the physical like a playpark for kids with big fences, and few toys. The rest is outta bounds, unless you're a naughty kid who learnt how to sneak out :evil:
so we're being 'naughty' by learning to project?
this forum keeps blowing my mind ! thank you for sharing all this information and opinions guys and gals !
(also free bump for this super interesting thread)
Interesting thread. :-D
I don't have much to say because I've already said everything a thousand times before! LOL!
Recently though, I had a massive debate with someone who is very stubborn and very ignorant. All along I was trying to make him consider other viewpoints while he revelled in his ignorance and stuck to his flimsy belief system due to his bias and his desire to remain comfortable! :roll:
http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=16130
If you care to read the whole thread, I'm pretty sure that I mention somewhere that, regardless of what the true nature of the physical realm is, it is still very real! Even if on a subatomic level it appears to be a non-material nature, the rules on the macro level are clear and the experience of it makes it real. In fact we make it real and we labelled it "real". There you go. 8-)
Well, it's not exactly ignorance... it's just his particular perspective on the subject.
You have yours, and he has his. Both are equally valid, because they are (hopefully) derived from personal experience.
All you can do is explain your perspective to people. They then will choose too believe it, disbelieve it, or put it aside for now and do neither until further evidence is brought forth. Nobody is ignorant just because they disagree with you. :)
No, trust me, if this guy wasn't being ignorant he pretty much ignored my advice to consider other perspectives. :-D
On top of that he had the audacity to claim that the brain doesn't contain nerve cells! :roll:
Xanth always telling us how he thinks all our experiences occur in the same place got me thinking.
So I've been meditating on whether we might not actually be "in" the physical. Kind of like if we're each in our own sort of astral holo-deck somewhere and whatever place we project our consciousness into is materialised around us. By default we would be tuned into the physical and our bodies here would basically be input/output devices.
The idea was a lot more in-depth than that but it doesnt really matter cause it fell apart in places. It has had one very cool effect on my waking life though.
When out and about in the physical try convincing yourself it's a projection. Just pretend. Look at things with the same sense of awe and wonder you would in the astral.
The physical is so seriously awesome! Just as much as the astral. The colours, the lines, the smells, the weather, light and shade, the solidity of it all. The way it seems so real!
I cant believe I ever thought life here was mundane. I'm basically thinking of it as a physical projection now.
Quote from: Summerlander on June 04, 2011, 02:00:04
No, trust me, if this guy wasn't being ignorant he pretty much ignored my advice to consider other perspectives. :-D
Are you giving equal credence to "his" perspective though?
Quote from: blis on June 04, 2011, 04:41:33
I cant believe I ever thought life here was mundane. I'm basically thinking of it as a physical projection now.
Actually, that is how I see this reality. It's nothing more than "just another reality frame".
Labeling them as "physical" and "non-physical" is completely wrong... because, if you've ever experienced what we call the "non-physical", you know it's *VERY* physically feeling. :)
Physical and non-physical are simply terms of perspective.
You may want to look up the term 'Bohmian I-Max'. You may find it interesting, blis.
Hadnt heard that term before. Reading up on it just now. Looks interesting.
Quote from: Xanth on June 04, 2011, 11:21:28
Are you giving equal credence to "his" perspective though?
I guess so. It's still a possibility. But I would have my own interpretation of "his" perspective still. If indeed things are as he says, then to me they are more like Frank Kepple's Wider Reality. The way Kepple puts it agrees more with my way of thinking.
Quote from: Summerlander on June 04, 2011, 15:23:35
I guess so. It's still a possibility. But I would have my own interpretation of "his" perspective still. If indeed things are as he says, then to me they are more like Frank Kepple's Wider Reality. The way Kepple puts it agrees more with my way of thinking.
Kind of sounds like you both might be talking about the same thing, just with different metaphors?
Just a thought. ;)
I like your thoughts, Xanth. I know what you mean. Sometimes I don't know why people clash when discussing this business. It doesn't really matter...what matters is the experience in the Phase and how it can be beneficial. :wink:
Something I think you guys might find intriguing if you haven't already heard of it is Young's experiment (aka the double-split experiment). I'll let this video explain, as my explanation would probably be very long winded 8-)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DfPeprQ7oGc
This is a short clip from the movie "What the Bleep Do We Know: Down the Rabbit Hole", which covers some very interesting topics and experiments dealing with quantum mechanics, consciousness, biology, spirituality etc. in an attempt to tie them all together. If you haven't seen it then I would highly recommend it.
Watch the video and if you want to know more then watch the whole movie or if you just have a quick question about what else they talk about then feel free to ask (I'm in no way an expert but I'm pretty good at sharing opinions :-) ). I just need to stop myself now before I write you guys an entire paper on all of the interesting things they discuss (and believe me, I easily could write a whole book it's all so fascinating). The cool thing about the movie is they leave a lot of things open for speculation, they don't say: this is how it is and no other way. They say here is some awesome info, do with it what you will.
All the best.
Ahh...the double-slit experiment. That's old. The electron can be both a particle and a wave. And then there's quantum entanglement and superposition which will serve as the basis from which a quantum computer will function. I can't wait to see this! Yes, reality on that level is weird. A particle can be at two different locations at the same time. In a quantum jump the electron can go from one orbit to the next without covering the distance between them (seemingly). All this weird 'behaviour' seems to be displayed in the Phase, as though our conscious awareness can travel extra-dimensionally and see/experience those hidden extentions of reality which can often be affected by the simple act of observing...hmmm...
In the end it's all real. Differently real but real nonetheless. The Phase may allow us to see the possibilities before they are manifest (and if they don't manifest locally, these ideas may collapse into alternate actualities - as in the many-worlds interpretation!) And this unborn reality concept, where things are not yet physical or actual, may be the limbo that many refer to as the "astral plane". It's the realm of ideas, of thoughts, of memories and anything the imagination can conceive...
This limbo may be where we, as a consciousness, do our sketching of possible worlds and events. Within such dimension which can transcend the space-time of our physical realm, we may access the personal and the collective. We are there all the time. When we are awake we are mostly unconscious to it but, once we enter the Phase, we become our unconscious that resides there. This may be why we are apparently able to speak to the unconscious representations of those we visit in Mode 2 OOBEs (Astral Projection) and the conscious version of the visited is unaware of this. Well, sometimes they become aware if they are daydreaming, meditating or even dreaming. I say this as a strong possibility because of what happened when I visited stoneZoMbIe during my Astral Viewers days. His brain waves may have oscillated in accordance to my focused frequency in the Phase as he said to his girlfriend during my experience that he felt funny and as though he should remember something or someone. In my experience, what I suspect was his unconscious was telling me that he wished to remember my visit...
I suspect the Phase can turn telepathic and probably in a few millions of years of brain evolution, as we near our physical entelechy, we may be able to use telepathy as a conventional form of communication during our waking state. Our mouths will be a surplus.
Sorry for rambling here but I'm just thinking out loud as I reflect on my experiences in the Phase state.
Quote from: Summerlander on June 19, 2011, 17:33:22
A particle can be at two different locations at the same time.
An entangled particle can be in multiple locations at the same time. Scientists theorize that they can be around 3,000 places simultaneously. I personally suspect that 3,000 should be a little closer to infinity though hehe.
QuoteIn a quantum jump the electron can go from one orbit to the next without covering the distance between them (seemingly). All this weird 'behaviour' seems to be displayed in the Phase, as though our conscious awareness can travel extra-dimensionally and see/experience those hidden extentions of reality which can often be affected by the simple act of observing.
In the end it's all real. Differently real but real nonetheless. The Phase may allow us to see the possibilities before they are manifest (and if they don't manifest locally, these ideas may collapse into alternate actualities - as in the many-worlds interpretation!) And this unborn reality concept, where things are not yet physical or actual, may be the limbo that many refer to as the "astral plane". It's the realm of ideas, of thoughts, of memories and anything the imagination can conceive...
This limbo may be where we, as a consciousness, do our sketching of possible worlds and events. Within such dimension which can transcend the space-time of our physical realm, we may access the personal and the collective. We are there all the time. When we are awake we are mostly unconscious to it but, once we enter the Phase, we become our unconscious that resides there. This may be why we are apparently able to speak to the unconscious representations of those we visit in Mode 2 OOBEs (Astral Projection) and the conscious version of the visited is unaware of this. Well, sometimes they become aware if they are daydreaming, meditating or even dreaming.
These ideas are very very similar to the thoughts I have when speculating the concept of phasing!
QuoteI suspect the Phase can turn telepathic and probably in a few millions of years of brain evolution, as we near our physical entelechy, we may be able to use telepathy as a conventional form of communication during our waking state. Our mouths will be a surplus.
There was an interesting theory brought up by one of the gentlemen in the film I mentioned above concerning telepathy. His thoughts on the phenomenon were that IF the big bang started the universe then everything in the universe was created together (entangled) and therefore he believes that telepathic phenomenon could be a product of entanglement. Fun to think about :-)
Telepathy as a form of entanglement from the Big Bang...that could explain it. You just gave me more food for thought. Thanks. So, in a way, we have access to the whole universe within us. It would make it holographic, wouldn't it? Every single bit represents the whole.
Quote from: Summerlander on June 19, 2011, 19:28:24
Every single bit represents the whole.
That's what I like to think :-)