What the bleep do we know!?

[Milamber]

I just watched what the bleep do we know, and I must say it was very good. Some of the concepts I have heard of, some concepts were explained better than I had known them before. I do have one question on the nature of reality and thoughts effecting matter/reality.
The movie speaks alot about the observer, and quantum mechanics. I am familiar with this. It goes further to say that WE choose our reality, and because our minds are so use to one thing (one pattern), we contune to create this same reality. (At least this is what I got from it). I have opened my mind, and accepted most of the things in the movie as true, 70-pecent of the stuff I have already had an experience in, so I know what they are saying is true. The other 30 percent, I will be open minded and see if it is or not.
So my question is, if we really create our reality, if thoughts do effect matter and reality, how did we origonally become stuck in THIS thing we CALL reality? All these reactions, images, memories, that depending on to what degree you buy these theories may or may not be real at all! Its all just a construct, created by our brain. So if reality is totally different, then what made us even construct this false one the way we have constructed it? Or is asking this question going to just confuse me, and make me stop my quest at finding out more of real reality and spiritual fulfilment. I have asked myself, but I come up against brick walls, and they all seem to want to contradict everything I hold true (which is probably all wrong anways, but...) and make these theories seem unreal...
Any opinions on this part of the movie, the combination of thought creating reality, and your brain/mind percieving a false reality (or just part of reality and not all of it) ?

[-lines-]

If we did, people who had no natural mental blocks would be able to do such noticable things that the rest could not help but notice. If a small child watches Mighty Mouse and believes he can fly, it does not make it so. Gravity does not rely on the belief of it to be true, neither does the earth need for us to believe it is spherical for that to be true.

[Milamber]

A small child may not have as many mental blocks, but they DO still have alot. Gravity IS a concept of your mind, you have experiences of it. You heard of gravity probably BEFORE you experienced it.
Everything that happened to you as a child was colored by what your brain could interpret, also, you had 'experienced' adults around you all the time to explain what was happening to you.

[Ben K]

Hmm..I would go so far as to say that just like in the astral, where things become more permenant with more thought power(i.e. API) this could hold true for the physical. But this begs the question of why didnt "Adam and Even" just fly around? They surely had no concept of gravity when they were born and would have had to get used to the idea of there feet sticking to the ground.

I dont know, I lean more towards the thought of the physical being purely objective.

[Milamber]

Sure, if you believe that story of adam and eve...
What came first, the Chicken, or the concept of gravity...

[Ben K]

I wasnt refering to Adam and Eve persay, hence the quotes. But obviously we can trace our ancestry back through time and somewhere along the line, wether it be a micro-organism or an ape, the concept of gravity HAD to have come about some way or another.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, if we create our own reality, all these beliefs we had would make no sense, why would a being all of a sudden believe, "Hey, I guess it would make sense that my feet touch the ground all the time, so i wont be flying around everywhere!"

Sounds a little sketchy to me, especially if you throw in evolution.

[Tom]

It isn't just about beliefs. Habits are more important. I can change my beliefs any time now to believe that I can fly. I often do this in lucid dreams and each time is still a struggle against the gravity habit. Even after I get off the ground in a dream, there is constant resistance pulling me back down. I don't think that people start out mentally empty when they are born. I think that it is more like going to sleep, dreaming, and waking up in a new body. Habits carry over from life to life.

[Ben K]

Beliefs, habits, its irrelevant. The fact is that the habit had to start somewhere.

[Milamber]

I wrote in the start of this message:

" if thoughts do effect matter and reality, how did we origonally become stuck in THIS thing we CALL reality? All these reactions, images, memories, that depending on to what degree you buy these theories may or may not be real at all! Its all just a construct, created by our brain. So if reality is totally different, then what made us even construct this false one the way we have constructed it?"

Note the last sentance. This is the question that I want to ask, to find out. However, this question DOES NOT have to be answered in order for us to change our 'habits' or whatever and start to believe, doing small effects on reality, then medium, then bigger. It would be nice to know yes, and you/ or I will probably find out after alot of the blockages and habits have been done away with. To ask now, is just to bog yourself, and myself down, and become discouraging because we think "If I cannot figure this out, it must not be real." and there you go.

Note also that people have said that a 'little positive thinking' will not make you fly. That is a little positive thinking, covering years, or if you believe in past lives etc, aeons of conditioning and some negative thought. So you have a little positive covering alot of negative. That wont work. It must take awhile to dismantle the negitve thought patterns, and reactions, habits etc, and re-affirm your postive goal.
Then, perhaps, you may fly
But please, dont test this theory out, and then come crying to me

[-lines-]

Note also that people have said that a 'little positive thinking' will not make you fly.

Well, it's true. You need a bit of pixie dust to go with those happy thoughts.

[UniOne]

If you want more advice from me on this subject, then E-mail me... this post is too small...

Anyhow...

Believe is one of the main principles that we have when we build our personalities. These believes are formed when we take on opinions from events that we have experienced, or ideas we have picked up...

Our Believes, in turn, create our faith, and develop what is called our "spiritual identity," which may be come to be known as your Astral self...

As I have said in other post, the astral world is powered by emotion and will. That's because this realm is ruled by two fundamental forces everyone can recognize, Light and Darkness: Good and Evil...

Well, if this is true, then why isn't our world run by the same emotion. Partly, this is because the universe we live in is ruled by the Superpowerful Force: Which is the combined forces of Gravity, Electromagnetism, and Strong & Weak Atomic forces...

These three key forces: Light, Darkness, and the Superpowerful Force, form realms that we all can exist in. This is because we all have a body, spirit, and soul, as well as light, dark, and mental complexions of ourselves...

Light's Realm: Heaven
Dark's realm: Hell
Superpowerful Force's Realm: Our Universe (Reality)

But Light and Dark realms can overlap into this realm as well...

(This is as far as I can go on this post... E-mail me for more... But I hope this helps!)

[narfellus]

I haven't seen this movie yet but would like to. I've heard pretty good things about it.  

It's nice to know that scientists and physicists are quickly catching up to the oldest Initiatic Sciences and confirming them on subatomic levels. I've read other books such as Brian Greene's The Elegant Universe where they've proven to themselves that there are many, many hidden dimensions within our physical one, and it's all basically one big illusion of vibrating energy.

[knucklebrain1970]

Well, if you folks look a little deeper at this movie, you'll see that it is basically a plug for RSE. Ramtha School of Enlightenment. Not that that is a bad thing, but one should be aware.

I particularly like Dr. Joe Dispenza. I could care less about RAMTHA, a 35k year old entity channeling through J.Z. Knight mumbling bull**** that makes no sense application wise.

Dr. Joe Dispenza however breaks stuff down so that one can understand it.

If I hear one more person say "Our thoughts affect reality" I'm going to punch them in the mouth. Those words are so meaningless without the proper application techniques.

The main idea of the movie is that we are capable of affecting our world, but they once again leave out the application parts. It's not as simple as saying "I'm going to be happy today"

You have to embed that idea into the subconscious mind in order for reality to bend in your favor. That is the difficult part. That is the part that nobody in the movie explains how to do. Yeah, it gets you all psyched up about the quantum field and "our ability to affect it" but as I said, without the proper application in your life, it's useless.

That's what I'm concentrating on is embedding a particular idea into the subconscious, to the point where you actually become the idea and it is more real than the physical world. It's at that point that amazing things start to occur. The RSE School teaches you the proper disciplines to learn how to do this. I've researched their material extensively and also listened to Dr. Joe Dispenza, who is also a teacher at RSE and neither one will give up any information on the disciplines they use in the school.

The core of the school is a breathing technique that numbs the mind so that the subconscious will be more accessible. This is called the C+E (Consciousness and energy) breathing technique. I've been looking for about 2 months for any information on this breathing technique. I've found virtually no information on it. I guess to learn it, you must attend the school.

Kevin

[Souljah333]

i posted a few times asking if anyone was familiar with jz knight & her ramtha (w/ freaky links to ramtha tv)...i don't think anyone ever replied. it worries me just a little that i see a lot "inner god" beliefs rising in pockets around the globe (which by the way we have YET to "prove" is spherical). omnipotence seems to be the new new age religion...and it's very much what ramtha is teaching. if anyone has ever touched on that feeling of power then you know how absolutely addictive it can be for the ego. there is no greater feeling then being in complete control/invincible, etc.

everyone is thinking so liner. going back to birth, or the original humans and saying, "if we couldn't fly then...then it doesn't make sense". i think that we are born into it...whatever "it" is. the rules are in place once we chose to be born, and we forget. there are some monks and nuns that have flown, documented i guess...but i don't claim to know everything about that. some people can tap back in to what they knew before they got here, before that section of hard drive was wiped. after all we're only using 10% correct?!? turtles can't fly and they're not stuck in what we know, but maybe they are. i hate to always make reference to the matrix, but it fits in here as well... neo couldn't break the "laws" within the matrix till he was pulled out, learned to see differently (the truth) and re-entered again knowing that those law could be bent or broken. though somewhere he still had a body that was restricted by those same laws again. he exchanged functions when he realized that what he thought was real wasn't...kind of like if we could switch gears with our physical world becoming like the astral, and vise versa. in the end neo also opens up his mind enough (or sets it aside) so that he can apply the same "limitless" function to his other "conscious" body in the machine world. I DON"T KNOW WHAT I"M TALKING ABOUT

it's funny i've been writing a lot of posts and never hitting the submit button. doesn't seem worth it sometimes. i'm sending this one just bcuz otherwise it seems more of a waste of time than usual (my opinion).

333

[Souljah333]

Recent study forces scientists to rethink basic law of physics
http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2005/05/09/MNG5LCLEU41.DTL

[knucklebrain1970]

Well, I don't believe that incorporating the idea that you are "GOD" into your thought process is necessarily bad. I've read some Ramtha books. I don't think they are necessarily saying that each of is "IS" God, but that we are/were never separate.

It's the separateness that causes confusion. Ramtha is teaching people that they are responsible for their lives. Primarily through what you think. Listen to a dog barking. You could either pick from one or two scenarios.

When you were young, you were told a dog barking meant something like the dog was connecting with Jesus

or

You could be told that when a dog barks, you get angry and tell it to shut up.

So with either of those choices, they build up an associative memory. So, if you chose the latter of the two, guess what your going to feel when the dog barks? That was your choice.

It's basically teaching people how to be in control of their own thoughts and to be themselves. Not to be more concerned with what others are doing. This is why people are miserable. BE YOU, not your neighbor.

So I don't believe it is that bad. I was considering attending the school, but there are certain aspects of it that I am weary of. If my mind is going to be wiped clean of all that is holding me back. I want whatever is put back to be from me. Not some programming from a school that wants me to be a money donating clone that feels it is life or death whether I attend the next retreat. That's what I'm afraid of. But however, to change, this involves losing some of your identity, does it not? Some negative aspects of your identity is what is holding you back in the first place, right? Now if you want to hear some interesting stuff. Go to beyondtheordinary.net and click on our guests and listen to some of Dr. Joe Dispenza.

He knows his stuff and is a nice guy. Of course he is from the school as well, but I think he is more grounded and scientific based than the rest of them. Give him a listen, he's quite a fascinating fellow. Ignore the two hosts however, they make me want to suck on the business end of a 45.

Kevin

[narfellus]

I listened to some of Joe's audio files today per your suggestion. Good stuff, but i didn't have time to play the whole hour out, i sort of skimmed it. I'll try more later.

I have the Ramtha books and have read them, and from a theoretical/spiritual point of view they are very interesting. I would be wary about joining a school though. I'm not even sure if the Rosicrucian Order is worth it, as anything that asks for money for membership/learning etc, seems wrong to me. The highest mysteries have always been found within through perseverance, tenacity and practice. Not that i've found them yet.  

[knucklebrain1970]

Well the school is basically based upon disciplines to quiet the mind. That's the major difficulty. We are wired now to jump from thought to thought and adapt to different situations with a split second. It's not supposed to be this way. We aren't living in the dinosaur era.

We don't need the flight or fight response to be running 24/7. That's why man developed a frontal lobe. For logic, intuition, cooperation, empathy, love. Not to be running in survival mode. This is what is causing the proliferation of disease. Not the environment.

To quiet the mind enough, to instill an outrageous concept, is what is difficult. The school teaches you to quiet your mind and believe in yourself. They have a guy who can see through playing cards. There are people that are supposedly learning to walk through walls, alter their DNA, reverse aging. Women in their 60's getting menstrual cycles again.

There's some weird sheit going on up there in Washington at RSE. I'd like to be a part of it, and the money doesn't bother me too much. But I've heard a lot of stories about people being brainwashed and "having" to attend every retreat and some other people relinquishing all ties to family members. That's where I draw the line. I want  control over my own brain. I wont allow myself to be in a subjective mode to allow someone else install their ideas into my subconscious. That's what scares me.

I would like to learn the disciplines they are teaching though. It's a tough call.

Kevin

[narfellus]

Hmm. I agree, that's tough. I'm a firm believer that mankind can truly accomplish anything, and it's only the belief that we can't that holds us back. I haven't heard about the walking thru walls and whatnot, but i've studied magic a bit and there's pretty much nothing that cannot be accomplished if you are truly in touch with the Godhead and serving Divine Providence.  And to me magic is just the manipulation of energy for a desired purpose, so it's a blanket explanation for quite a few phenomena.

[Ben K]

Man doesnt WANT to accomplish everything. We all agree to "rules" beforehand like gravity, mortality, etc. If we were able to do everything the "game"(life) would be spoiled. We are here to experiance and grow.

However, thats not to say that I believe we CAN break these "rules". The only reason they apply to us is because the majority of people on earth subscribe to them.

I dont doubt that some people have been able to do some pretty amazing stuff. But i dont know about the reverse aging etc. Seems pretty far fetched to me but i like to keep an open mind to everything

Do you have any links on these cases?

[Souljah333]

yes i've listened to his work. and i'm familiar with the ramtha teachings, but

there are certain aspects of it that I am weary of.

me too, that's all i was saying. yes it works, but only to a point, and then you're left with another belief system after that...maybe even a worse one, bcuz it make you more powerful...and you're less likely to give it up for an even higher understanding?!?

This is why people are miserable. BE YOU, not your neighbor.

i never said i was miserable...and i definitely don't want to be like anybody i know.

The only reason they (rules) apply to us is because the majority of people on earth subscribe to them.

...or people only exist bcuz the majority of the rules subscribe to them...or we subscribe to the existence, bcuz the people rule the majority? just being a smart butt...

all good points
333

and i don't think anything when dogs bark...esp. those two responses. except of course when i'm inside and it's pitch black outside and the dog starts growling at something outside...that can complete change my reality in an instant!!!

[Ben K]

The only reason they (rules) apply to us is because the majority of people on earth subscribe to them.

...or people only exist bcuz the majority of the rules subscribe to them...or we subscribe to the existence, bcuz the people rule the majority? just being a smart [edit]...

I tend to hold consciousness in a higher regard than a physical law, or a physical anything for that matter  

Action follows thought, not the other way around  

[Souljah333]

i agree (i think) i'm never sure of anything.

i apologize (in a way) for the part you quoted. i guess i've "just been writing" w/out much thought. feels like people are posting around me, and with all my posts disappearing on top of that...i guess i forget that people are actually going to try and "comprehend" what i'm saying...and i wasn't saying anything.  it's gonna take me a while to find my groove again. somehow the wind has been sucked out of my sails.

i usually try to avoid this quantum area, bcuz it's very specific and i'm very "not specific".  not sure how i even ended up in this thread?!? oh, yeah the "bleep" thing.
333

[Ben K]

no offense at all, thats what we are here to do!

[thelou]

Ben K, and Tom;

The reason gravity "works" has nothing to do with belief or habit.  Because beliefs and habits come with each life specific to which "construct" that physical life chooses to manifest in.

1.   Gravity is part of the physical law of this plant/time/dimension.
2.   Gravity works because it is a law, laws are irrefutable and cannot be broken - but they can be bent.  
3.   We were explained the law of gravity BEFORE we chose to incarnate here.  There are things that are called "agreements".  We "agreed" to abide by the law of gravity before we were born.  That is why positive thinking or changing habits alone will not entitle one to fly.

Sorry guys, but to bend a law and go against it one has to discover how to change the law of agreements.  Figure that one out and let me know please  

Milamber;

There are as many different "constructs" as one can imagine, actually more.  Kind of like trying to quantify the exact number of plants there really are.

We consciously "choose" which construct and indeed which time frame within that construct to manifest in before we are born.  As an example, picture a person at a travel agency looking at all the hundreds of different "vacation" possibilities.   From a Soul level that is in laymen's terms what we do.  We go over the different possibilities and we choose to incarnate in one (actually we can incarnate in many at the same time, since in truth there is no such thing as "time")

We do this because in "reality" as you mentioned, there is no such thing as the "physical" world.  For lack of a batter way of explaining it, our spirit and our soul (yes they are not the same thing) sort of float around in non-existence.  Our spirit comes here to "experience" the physical because living in a construct is the only way we can experience physical things.  Ie. Such as food, sex, sleep all we can do here.

As all of the Souls send their Spirits into physical we combine into the collective of ALL That IS can experience.  That is the reason.

Narfellus;

Your statement that anything that asks for money in exchange for teaching seems wrong to you confuses me.  Do any of the thousands of collages and universities out there give free admission to their students?