Must read re: Reincarnation!!!!!

[Saints]

Follow-up:
From Sampson:  He writes that he found an interesting web site - http://www.leslieflint.com/index.html

He's right!  It's a very interesting website.  Go to it and listen to the conversations - they have audiotapes (and read the transcripts) from the people who died and are now on the astral plane.  Then re-view my post regarding William Buhlman's observation that this is a "trap".  It's this astral address and the rationale the souls use to stay there which I'm highlighting.  Buhlman says by staying at the astral zipcodes, we're not achieving the greatness that's available to us...and that we should push deeper into the light and not settle for illusion.  To do this we need to practice AP and get reaccoustomed to our home and remember why we came here..then do it..and then when we die, by pass the astral zips and burrough deep into the Light!

quote:Originally posted by Saints

Hi,
I've been reading a lot about obe a/p etc for a long time and I've been succesful in getting out-of-body 20+ times.  In all I've collected 100+ books, publications, scholorly articles, on obe/ap. I've gotten his first book, but in his second book, William Buhlman produces information that rocked-my-stuff! On page 125, The Typical Transition..., para. #2, he states something nobody talks about..but its 'this' which is at the heart of MY pursuit into spirituality....he writes..."However, there is one very serious problem with with this comforting scenario that few are aware of and no one addresses (HE IS REFERRING TO THE ASTRAL PLANE AFTER DEATH AND THE DIFFERENT LANDSCAPES OUR MIND'S MAKE FOR THE AFTERLIFE SO WE CAN RECOVER {SEE MONROE'S REHAB STATION) FROM OUR LIFE EXPERIENCE AND THEN REINCARNATE - HE SAY'S ITS A TRAP!...TRAP!...TRAP!). I've met Mr. Buhlman twice and sat in his lectureas three times.  He young (40-50) and is very business like.  He continues...You have just accepted and adapted to a thought-conscensus environment on the astral plane. You have just accepted a reflection (As above-so-below) of spirit instead of the true essence of it.   You have done what billions have done before you.  You have merged your consciousnes with a non-physical reality far from your true spiritual home.By doing so you essentially guarantee the continuation of your form-based existence and you reincarnation. The end result is that most people accept the denser spiritual realities of the astral plane as their new home. They settle for and adapt to the physical-like areas of the astral plane because these environments are familiar and comfortable. Thus they chain themselves to the astral realm of form and substance, and the ancient cycle of rebirth is maintained and assured".  

WOW!  Its almost like evolution all over again! 1st we gain lucidity from earth/universe..now we have to gain lucidity from the astral plane in order to advance into our true spiritual form?!!
The final answer seems to be to focus on the Light...don't settle for familiar settings....push....advance deep into the Light..till you run out of steam! Go to the Light!! Bypass the familiar..go to the Light!

I know now...that we have to storm Heaven..like the salmon running up-stream..we have to attack..show intense desire..show worthyness, show lucidity, show total abadonment of ego..we have to plunge into the void (uncertanity) knowing with absolute certanity..that the end is certainly waiting for us..that toil is a necessary part of this process. Finally, from a knowing Kabbalist..."From beyond Time and through all Eternities...The Beginning..knew my Name!!! From nothing...he called me forth...for I was one of his hidden treasues...and in the End..I shall return to the Light".

[beavis]

Why would being in astral places similar to physical places force you to come back to physical?

When I die, I'm going to look around lazily until I decide which direction to go, but I'm sure it wont be back here.

[plasma_blaster]

sorry i didnt really read your thing to long i dont really like reading, but u have had over 20 oobe's dang how do u do it i tried that one time it is hard!!

[Van-Stolin]

Saints, look, the soul is a mysterious thing.  It probably doesn't matter what you do, becuase if the soul wants to learn more, then it is going to reincarnate no matter what.  I tell you that I can't care less about that sort of thing, as I am going to stay in the astral for as long as I feel like becuase of two astral beings that I meet.

[Saints]

Well, we come to this place because cause-time-effect provide an enviorment where learning is excellerated. There is no time on the astral. Everthing happens immediately. There is no time to focus on an event, observe, analyze and consider (i.e., gain awareness of the Source/Light/G_D). We come back to fix wrongs we've done to ourselves and others.  We use the body as a tool to facilitate the correction (i.e., acts of forgiveness and compassion, etc.).  Listen to one of the dead guys who "kicked the bucket".  He says there is not time there.  We need this place to slow down the events to gain lucidity.

quote:Originally posted by beavis

Why would being in astral places similar to physical places force you to come back to physical?

When I die, I'm going to look around lazily until I decide which direction to go, but I'm sure it wont be back here.

[Saints]

As a child I floated out after falling asleep. I woke up in my astral body and observed the livingroom, parents and activities from just below the ceiling. As an adult, I read how to do it see R.Bruces' technique breathing, relaxing, target, desire, will and boom you can get out.  See other message boards on this webpage about OBEs. There is a lot of stuff.  Desire (huge Disire) is extremely important.  

quote:Originally posted by plasma_blaster

sorry i didnt really read your thing to long i dont really like reading, but u have had over 20 oobe's dang how do u do it i tried that one time it is hard!!

[Saints]

But Van...its not real. According to my reading, we're from the source/g_d.  We came to to toil and thereby gain lucidity of g_d presence and involvement in our lives. I think Buhlman is right.  When you leave earth for the last time, you should grab your friends and pull them with you into the Light..

quote:Originally posted by Van-Stolin

Saints, look, the soul is a mysterious thing.  It probably doesn't matter what you do, becuase if the soul wants to learn more, then it is going to reincarnate no matter what.  I tell you that I can't care less about that sort of thing, as I am going to stay in the astral for as long as I feel like becuase of two astral beings that I meet.

[Saints]

Plasma..(2nd note) as f/u to the last note i wrote, I think G_D is a sharing type energy that wants us to know 'him'.  He wants to be revealed.  By living on earth..we have a difficult but rewarding opportunity to reveal Light (the stuff of G_d) thereby revealing G_D. Movement slows down to a pace we can observer, analyze (think) and conclude...bringing us eventually to acknowledging G_D. That's why this place was created.  On the astral (see Yesod) its a segment of the process (important, but not a totality) and although you have awareness, its the result of being in this universe (see Malchut) that you had developed it. You come back again and again because its only a blink of time and we learn so much. We repeat and repeat and grow each time.  Each incarnation gets us closer to the light. Each incarnation is very short in duration. On your death bed you will observer...wow my life just flew by...you won't believe it over so quickly!  On the astral, friends will hardly know you've been away.

quote:Originally posted by plasma_blaster

sorry i didnt really read your thing to long i dont really like reading, but u have had over 20 oobe's dang how do u do it i tried that one time it is hard!!

[BlackTalon]

The only thing I can add to this is things i've read from nde's. I've read a few times the mention of spirits being trapped, being they stick around earth or elsewhere unable to detach themselves from either their ego or not being able to let go of certain things.

It seems like the light is always there after you die but not always the first thing you see and sometimes are put in environments which are not too nice...so the spirit/person calls upon the light or their higher power to save them and the light comes. I don't know if this is for everyone but i've read that example a few times.

Then from beyong entering the light I don't really know, seems like it's different for each person, there are alot of similarities though, like life review, and being shown something and shown their future or the universe(s)..sometimes different planets, different beings ect....then from there once you go past a certain threshold you don't come back and I don't know what happens after that.

[Saints]

Talon,
I must of read the same stuff.  Yes..that's the type of 'trap' I mean. They hang on to ego and materialism, and try to continue to use their life-experiences on the astral because they don't have the 'knowledge' to push outward to the source. Its like Earth is the ego, the Moon is the Astral Plane..and the Sun is the end-point. Ya gotta keep driving outward. I've listened to many of Robert Monroe's tapes.  He clearly..identifies these astral cultural sites as potential destinations for souls till the regain enough lucidity to plan a new evolution strategy. I suppose we need the astral.  Monroe says the rehabilition/rest/recreation stations were made for man..by man a long time ago.  So..maybe some of us have woken up to this..and see that the waystations are softer continuations of earth physics; and now we need to move deeper into the Light.

Re: "Light is alway there after you die"...yes but even before death, the Light is there. It's us...who put-up the barriers/veils and push back the Light (via ego).  The Light wants to give us everything we need..its the klippot/shells we create by wanting for ourselves-alone (vs Sharing with others) that creates the blocking-veils. Its like one piece of cloth over your eyes, followed by another and another,etc that blocks the Light.  Its there..we just have to recognize its the desire to receive for oneself that's keeping the Light out.
Re: "Life revew..." granted there is a need for those who require on-going ceu's (continuing education units) but for those who have the desire to get back into the source..we need to follow the Light.  Heaven has to stormed (you need to make an effort to get in). It takes multiple reincarnations and then to execute a well laid plan.  Yes..a plan to lay siege to heaven.

quote:Originally posted by BlackTalon

The only thing I can add to this is things i've read from nde's. I've read a few times the mention of spirits being trapped, being they stick around earth or elsewhere unable to detach themselves from either their ego or not being able to let go of certain things.

It seems like the light is always there after you die but not always the first thing you see and sometimes are put in environments which are not too nice...so the spirit/person calls upon the light or their higher power to save them and the light comes. I don't know if this is for everyone but i've read that example a few times.

Then from beyong entering the light I don't really know, seems like it's different for each person, there are alot of similarities though, like life review, and being shown something and shown their future or the universe(s)..sometimes different planets, different beings ect....then from there once you go past a certain threshold you don't come back and I don't know what happens after that.

[jilola]

quote:I think Buhlman is right. When you leave earth for the last time, you should grab your friends and pull them with you into the Light..

Is that a reasonably exact quote of Mr. Buhman? I admit too not having read his writings but even paraphrased or inaccurately quoted that sounds way too weird to digest.

quote:Re: "Light is alway there after you die"...yes but even before death, the Light is there. It's us...who put-up the barriers/veils and push back the Light (via ego).

As for the Light (tm) always being there and all that: You ARE the light and so is everything else. Whatever that means to each and all differs but the truth is that is the reality of us. We can make and express ourselves in many ways, some constructive others horribly destructive, but the Light(tm) people refer to is the real reality of who we are.
One should not mistake Light(tm) to be Good(tm) or Evil(tm) or even McLife(tm) that our daily existence gives us the reason to believe is everything there is to us.
We are expressions and reflections of the one and singular existence usually dubbed the Universe(tm) and God(tm) who is also attributed with the copyright to Life(tm). In other words you'se is it.

Go on, kick the baby [] Defluffify me.

2cents & L&L
Jouni

[Saints]

No Buhlman didn't suggest this. It is my response to Talon's message about his friends. I agree with Buhlman that the astral is an illusion and that Talon should grab his friends when he separates from earth (for the last time) and moves into the Light.

Regarding being Light, yes I suppose we have Light in us, but I think the Light is the medium G_d works with. But it is not the soul. The Light extends from the Creator, but I don't have the slightest idea of His being. Also, the Light is something we 'Restrict'. We choose to let it in. The Light is a noun. We're verbs.

Whatever that means to each and all differs but the truth is that is the reality of us. We can make and express ourselves in many ways, some constructive others horribly destructive, but the Light(tm) people refer to is the real reality of who we are. We disagree!  As above..the Light is the medium. You're verbing as you write your thoughts. The Light is like the emanations of the sun...its there whether we're at night time or day time....it's always there.

quote:Originally posted by jilola

quote:I think Buhlman is right. When you leave earth for the last time, you should grab your friends and pull them with you into the Light..

Is that a reasonably exact quote of Mr. Buhman? I admit too not having read his writings but even paraphrased or inaccurately quoted that sounds way too weird to digest.

quote:Re: "Light is alway there after you die"...yes but even before death, the Light is there. It's us...who put-up the barriers/veils and push back the Light (via ego).

As for the Light (tm) always being there and all that: You ARE the light and so is everything else.

Whatever that means to each and all differs but the truth is that is the reality of us. We can make and express ourselves in many ways, some constructive others horribly destructive, but the Light(tm) people refer to is the real reality of who we are.

quote:Originally posted by jilola

quote:I think Buhlman is right. When you leave earth for the last time, you should grab your friends and pull them with you into the Light..

Is that a reasonably exact quote of Mr. Buhman? I admit too not having read his writings but even paraphrased or inaccurately quoted that sounds way too weird to digest.

Re: "Light is alway there after you die"...yes but even before death, the Light is there. It's us...who put-up the barriers/veils and push back the Light (via ego).

As for the Light (tm) always being there and all that: You ARE the light and so is everything else. Whatever that means to each and all differs but the truth is that is the reality of us. We can make and express ourselves in many ways, some constructive others horribly destructive, but the Light(tm) people refer to is the real reality of who we are.
One should not mistake Light(tm) to be Good(tm) or Evil(tm) or even McLife(tm) that our daily existence gives us the reason to believe is everything there is to us.
We are expressions and reflections of the one and singular existence usually dubbed the Universe(tm) and God(tm) who is also attributed with the copyright to Life(tm). In other words you'se is it.

Go on, kick the baby [] Defluffify me.

2cents & L&L
Jouni

[James S]

Can't say that I'm really bothered wondering about reincarnation too much. Got stuff to do while I'm here, now. Whatever I've done, or am going to do, that's another life.

Now if you're talking about reintarnation, that's a whole other thing.
The idea of coming back as a hillbilly scares the bejezus out of me!

[]
James.

[BlackTalon]

quote:Originally posted by Saints

No Buhlman didn't suggest this. It is my response to Talon's message about his friends. I agree with Buhlman that the astral is an illusion and that Talon should grab his friends when he separates from earth (for the last time) and moves into the Light.

Who are these friends i'm supposed to grab...I don't know these people who's stories I've read on nde's. If you mean family and friend are you saying i'm supposed to grab them out of their bodies and take em with me? heh...As for storming into heaven as you say from the stories that i've read you can't just storm past the threshold, unless your finished your tasks here then maybe thats a different story....and say you die with your tasks finished I don't know what happens then because if they went past the threshold they wouldnt be able to come back and write about it. Although i've read a few where they got to explore the universe and different levels of heaven but thats not too common.

I haven't read the book your talking about but I do know i'll be going towards or calling upon the light after I leave my body other than that I don't really know. I don't know if when you astral travel if it's the same space as the space you go when you die....I really don't know enough about it to guess even.

[Akensai]

Jilola is absolutely right. The light is what we are made of, even ego is light, there is nothing that stands out of the light, so when people are saying remember the light or to seek it they mean remember that you are the light, it is all light, it is all oneness. We are already living in the self (light) imposed illusion of earthly life, astral life is just so an illusion, BUT merging whit the light is an illusion too, because to merge whit the light would suggest that you are not the light now. When you pass and you will end up in the astral, you are going to live a life just like now, or maybe incarnate or transcend, but it is all a game in the light, we are all role players, we just don't realize it most of the time. Its all one play, and the light is all the players. And you know maybe you will transcend the astral, but its no higher goal the anything else in existence, the light is oneness, all goals in the light are equal. (NOTE I use the word light, but you can also call it: Tao, cosmic energy, primal energy, god, consciousness etc, many names point to the same.)

[Saints]

Sorry Talon...meant to reference Van-Stolin's message.

quote:Originally posted by BlackTalon

quote:Originally posted by Saints

No Buhlman didn't suggest this. It is my response to Talon's message about his friends. I agree with Buhlman that the astral is an illusion and that Talon should grab his friends when he separates from earth (for the last time) and moves into the Light.

Who are these friends i'm supposed to grab...I don't know these people who's stories I've read on nde's. If you mean family and friend are you saying i'm supposed to grab them out of their bodies and take em with me? heh...As for storming into heaven as you say from the stories that i've read you can't just storm past the threshold, unless your finished your tasks here then maybe thats a different story....and say you die with your tasks finished I don't know what happens then because if they went past the threshold they wouldnt be able to come back and write about it. Although i've read a few where they got to explore the universe and different levels of heaven but thats not too common.

I haven't read the book your talking about but I do know i'll be going towards or calling upon the light after I leave my body other than that I don't really know. I don't know if when you astral travel if it's the same space as the space you go when you die....I really don't know enough about it to guess even.

[Saints]

Where did you get that info from?  We're not made of light. Our souls are beyond that-we're like pure awareness. The light is being emanated from a source..g_d. We don't know what g_d's essential being is (see Rabbi Yehuda Ashlag's Ten Luminous Emanations, Vol. 1, pg 53).  And the ego is something unique to this universe and the lower astral plane (i.e., ghosts-people that got addicted to this world of form-and-substance and don't leave). Re: Merging with the light, its a reference many people cite after NDE and refers to the ambient light that becons us.  I'm saying that the light will guide you to the upper astral (Summerland, etc.) but the upper astral is where souls gather (law of affinity)and some make it their final resting place, because they are unaware that there is something greater for them.  I'm saying the astral is not the end-point; and there is nothing external keeping us from drilling deeper into the light back to the source. See Bulhman's The Secret of the Soul, page 142 on what to do as you approach your last breath. What to focus on...it's really amazing.

quote:Originally posted by Akensai

Jilola is absolutely right. The light is what we are made of, even ego is light, there is nothing that stands out of the light, so when people are saying remember the light or to seek it they mean remember that you are the light, it is all light, it is all oneness. We are already living in the self (light) imposed illusion of earthly life, astral life is just so an illusion, BUT merging whit the light is an illusion too, because to merge whit the light would suggest that you are not the light now. When you pass and you will end up in the astral, you are going to live a life just like now, or maybe incarnate or transcend, but it is all a game in the light, we are all role players, we just don't realize it most of the time. Its all one play, and the light is all the players. And you know maybe you will transcend the astral, but its no higher goal the anything else in existence, the light is oneness, all goals in the light are equal. (NOTE I use the word light, but you can also call it: Tao, cosmic energy, primal energy, god, consciousness etc, many names point to the same.)

[Saints]

Hi,
I've been reading a lot about obe a/p etc for a long time and I've been succesful in getting out-of-body 20+ times.  In all I've collected 100+ books, publications, scholorly articles, on obe/ap. I've gotten his first book, but in his second book, William Buhlman produces information that rocked-my-stuff! On page 125, The Typical Transition..., para. #2, he states something nobody talks about..but its 'this' which is at the heart of MY pursuit into spirituality....he writes..."However, there is one very serious problem with with this comforting scenario that few are aware of and no one addresses (HE IS REFERRING TO THE ASTRAL PLANE AFTER DEATH AND THE DIFFERENT LANDSCAPES OUR MIND'S MAKE FOR THE AFTERLIFE SO WE CAN RECOVER {SEE MONROE'S REHAB STATION) FROM OUR LIFE EXPERIENCE AND THEN REINCARNATE - HE SAY'S ITS A TRAP!...TRAP!...TRAP!). I've met Mr. Buhlman twice and sat in his lectureas three times.  He young (40-50) and is very business like.  He continues...You have just accepted and adapted to a thought-conscensus environment on the astral plane. You have just accepted a reflection (As above-so-below) of spirit instead of the true essence of it.   You have done what billions have done before you.  You have merged your consciousnes with a non-physical reality far from your true spiritual home.By doing so you essentially guarantee the continuation of your form-based existence and you reincarnation. The end result is that most people accept the denser spiritual realities of the astral plane as their new home. They settle for and adapt to the physical-like areas of the astral plane because these environments are familiar and comfortable. Thus they chain themselves to the astral realm of form and substance, and the ancient cycle of rebirth is maintained and assured".  

WOW!  Its almost like evolution all over again! 1st we gain lucidity from earth/universe..now we have to gain lucidity from the astral plane in order to advance into our true spiritual form?!!
The final answer seems to be to focus on the Light...don't settle for familiar settings....push....advance deep into the Light..till you run out of steam! Go to the Light!! Bypass the familiar..go to the Light!

I know now...that we have to storm Heaven..like the salmon running up-stream..we have to attack..show intense desire..show worthyness, show lucidity, show total abadonment of ego..we have to plunge into the void (uncertanity) knowing with absolute certanity..that the end is certainly waiting for us..that toil is a necessary part of this process. Finally, from a knowing Kabbalist..."From beyond Time and through all Eternities...The Beginning..knew my Name!!! From nothing...he called me forth...for I was one of his hidden treasues...and in the End..I shall return to the Light".