OBE, What for??!!!

[rodentmouse]

i see it like this  ensonador...

logically   man   should  want to seek  truth, grow  and to evolve... yes?   this is a fair  statement  which i  think most people  want  for  mankind...

logically,    unlocking the latent faculties of  our minds is a step in the right direction-  harnessing  more of  our  innate "abilities" to hopefully  understand ourselfs better,  and the relationship between mind and matter---  especially  with telekensis.

maybe  some people  can only get out of there bodies and explore there room and say "this is boring, why do this?"  its a good point-  we can all explore our rooms whenever we want...

the point is a  new frontier of  consciousness is  available to a growing species  which science should start to  investigate more seriously..

say you can only  explore your room,  (not YOU, i mean people in general)  they could  cultivate  it  and hopefully explore the astral  worlds.

ive only had a few OBE's   which took place  in  my house and out on the street by my house,  the location  doesnt really matter to me,  its  more  that  this is a  unexplored ability of all men  we should BY PRINCIPLE  investigate...

say  you built a car,  you would be  quite dissapointed if someone bought it  and only  used it  for its horn and nothing else... you would want them to use it to drive,  to sit in,  to  use the  boot,  basically  to  use all the features you designed it with,  you would know that your car is being fully HARNESSED.

that is how i see god and man.  

men are "built"   with faculties which allow  them to explore different states of being-  maybe god is looking down  upon us  sighing that  we arent using all the features he designed us with.

[Mirador]

Ensoñador,

Coño, parece que te estas llevando demasiado por las vainas que escriben estos Gringos. Te aseguro que solamente hay un solo 'Plano'y todo lo que puedes hacer lo harás en este mismo Plano. No te pierdas en divagaciones metafísicas, tu sabes lo que quieres, búscalo y hazlo!

Mirador

[Nick]

Mirador,

This post is for you. There is another reply I left for you at the Healing Discussions forum. In that forum, you responded to a post by Ensoñador with derision also. I understand your Spanish. You berate Ensoñador for asking questions here of us "gringos". These posts by you are unfortunate because they smack of anger and racism.

We really are all are part of the same mix, despite the language and cultural clothes we wear, maybe someday you'll understand that.

[imora]

I don't understand either Ensodor.  We may be behind spiritually compared to other people on this board.  But then you can project and I can't, so I'm way behind.[]
I don't think obe or esp are needed to have a meaningful life.  I can wait until I'm dead to find out the truth.  There are many things you can do in this physical world.  Let's enjoy life while it lasts.  If we are not immortal, that's ok too.
I think people want to overcome the fear of death.

[James S]

Nick,
Mirador might not mean ill towards us when he calls us "gringos".
It can be interpreted in many ways, but most commonly it just means "foreigners". I questioned a spanish collegue of mine about it. He said the context it is used in can make it bad, but mostly its just like when we talk about someone from another country we might say "these Chinese" or "these Italians".

Mirador,
Because you and Ensoñador speak the same language does not mean that only you know what is the best advice for him and the rest of us don't. How can you asure anyone there is only one plane? Do you know this for a fact? If so, where's your proof? What is it to you if Ensoñador does want to "loose himself in Metaphysical wanderings"? Maybey he's just looking for something more than what he knows now. His Choice! You seem to want to make his descisions for him.

Ensoñador,

quote:
Yes, we can go many places and make a lot of unusual things, but I think this is just a step. Meditation is made to cross astral planes to higuer states of conciouness, there is a danger by getting obssesd in power in the astrals. Also I think we have a msision on this world to do, ¿why does everybody want to leave to other worlds?

I've thought the exact same thing myself. It wasn't until I spoke to a couple of people, one who astral travels quite a lot, and another who had died, and was revived, that I learned that when you are able to see things from a point of view that is outside our everyday world, you learn to see the bigger picture. You can learn to live a better life because you are able to see that things that we might think are big events, or big problems, really aren't big at all. That can make it easier for us to get past them.

I hope that makes some sense. I'm struggeling to find the best words to use here for my thoughts.

James.

[Nick]

quote:
Originally posted by James S

Nick, Mirador might not mean ill towards us when he calls us "gringos".

James, you are right, context is everything. I really do want to give a person the benefit of the doubt. However, taken in the context of not only this post but several others by him, my conclusion was otherwise regarding his use of that word.

It wasn't until I had read all the posts that I started replying. I confess I was bothered, but part of it had to do with the way he was berating Ensoñador for just asking innocent questions.

On another subject, I like what you had to say in your post about the astral being important to help see things "from a point of view that is outside our everyday world".

Very best,

[James S]

Thanks nick for your comment.[]
I have to agree with you now about the "gringo" thing. Once or twice is ok, but more than that and it looks like racism.

Ensoñador,
if your still out there I would very much like to see you come back to these posts and let us know what YOU think of what we've said. You've asked some good questions!

All the best,
James.

[Ensoñador]

Hello everybody:

Astral traveling does help us to look at the world in a more expanded way, but sometimes too much clarity and power can make us blind and fall again. What I think is taht we should always ask ourselfes why do we want to OBE, cause many people do it to feel powerful and special, or for egos desires. Astral planes are still part of desire.

About the gringo thing: I can defend myself. Words are not ofensive if you dont feel yourself bothered. If someone gives you a "gringo" dress, why do you put it on you. Nobody can be unrespectful to you if you dont get hooked in others words. The racism you hate in others is your inner racism. Gringo cames from two word: green go, this was an old concept in US invasion to Mexico used by people to claim their own land. IF you dont like to be called gringo is because you still beleive in the power of that word. The more you get bothered about something, the more you give power to that wich bothers you. You are responsable of your own reactions and feelings, not Mirador or me, just you. GRingo is an empty word, but you fill it your self importance, so the word becomes important to you. Lol.

                          Chiao,

[Nay]

quote:About the gringo thing: I can defend myself. Words are not ofensive if you dont feel yourself bothered. If someone gives you a "gringo" dress, why do you put it on you. Nobody can be unrespectful to you if you dont get hooked in others words. The racism you hate in others is your inner racism.

I wasn't offended because I didn't understand it..lol..why did he feel the need to put it in spanish? perhaps because he knew we "gringos" would be offended?  I have seen the other posts, but once again didn't have a idea what was said..I assumed it was nice but thanks Nick for putting that in perspective..real shame..tsk.tsk..

Nay. []

[Person]

Look at it from the perspective of your average athiest.
The world is solid, your imagination is just that, and when you die you cease to exist, and therefore fear it.
The possibility of OBE/ESP is what got me to start looking for answers.  Just using the chakras proved imagination could affect reality.  My first OBE made me lose my fear of death.  My first AP proved places outside the physical world do exist.  Trying to OBE (energy work, concentration) led me to self-healing.  I certainly wanted the 'power' to be an invisible spy at one time, but to get there, I had to remove more emotional energy blocks and inner fears.  So I wouldn't say OBE is mostly for power and curiosity chasers, that's just what draws them in.  
If I could OBE all the time, then what?  Well, I'd hook up with my guides and be shown things in a much clearer way that lead to real fulfillment.  Supposedly, there are astral healing centers, a great reason for AP.
As to how OBE fits into the master plan.. for one, it keeps you from falling into the illusion and doubting anything past the physical is real.  Another idea... imagine if OBE was commonplace.  If my friend could spy on me and said how, I'd certainly want to try it.  Some dogmatic religions would fall and science would be expanded.  Many people, with whatever motive, would indirectly be improving themselves spiritually and get a boost on their spiritual path.  I'd say that's a great plan

[Osiris]

Greetings Ensoñador,

quote:Yes I can get out of body, but beside power and curiosity, it doesnt feeds my heart needs.

The kingdom is within you.

Sincerely yours,

Osiris.

[Ensoñador]

Ok, I got the idea. OBE opens a lot of posibilitys not only for curious and ambicious but for really seekers of freedom. I just think we probably as humans are not prepared to power, cause we havent developed uncondicional love. I read the other day a book about US and Rusian goberment experiements with ESP for war uses. They were wondering how to kill people with distance telekinesis, or how to teletransport a ship into others country. The book is called "Remote viewing". Atlantida collapsed because abuse of power, and I just dont feel we are ready to recieve great revelations or visit for example fromk other worlds. We have a lot of work to do in our tridimensional world, and in our selfs first. Wisdom has been secretly conserved for just a few.  
                       Ensoñador

[WalkerInTheWoods]

From reading your posts I think you are looking at OBE/AP incorrectly. You keep speaking of power, people doing this to become more powerful, people seeking power, well never have I ever seen OBE/AP as being power or me being powerful for doing it. Maybe this is why you find it so unfulfilling, because it is not about power, it is about growth and development. Try changing how you view OBE/AP and you might find use for it.

[Ensoñador]

Hello:

Everything is a matter of power, but there is inner power and external power. I think OBE can be used for both.
Freedom, love, and spiritual growth are experiences of power because thats what they are.Altough, the greatest power we can achieve as humans, is quiting the need of power(external), the need and desire of control and to feel important. Only then we reclaim our true power and  emotional independence.When this happends hapiness is no longer in what we could do or be, but in what we already and really are. I.m not judgeing anyone, I just invite all seekers to ask themselfes the true motives of their seek.

The more power you want, the more you dont have. Thats the true of ambicious ones. There is no real power with kings if they dont experience themselfes just like someone else standing in the world. I think real power has more to do with inner balance and economy.

Why do we want to grow and develop?,great expectations can be born of lack of self aceptance, and rarely from true "spiritual instinct".  Many people want to change cause they hate their lifes, and rarely becasue its the right time to do it. Many people want to go out of themselfes and thats why they start asking for other worlds. They go out of bounderies away of their inner mess. I think we shouldnt travel anywhere if we havent cleaned our personal background. Our dirty background and the old emotional wounds are the reason for many projectors to have horrible OBE and neg encounters. Everything its about the quality of vibrations. What we see is what we are. Others have "paranormal" experiences but arent capable to see the extrordinary of any normal day of life.

I want to grow up, Is love or hate what makes me take that decision? Heart listening is what we as humans need, not vacations. We need to explore ourselfes, but first we shall do it in this world. We come from those other worlds to live in these world, dont tell me, we projectors have sucked all what there is from our opportunity on earth.  

Maybe we could use OBE to clean,heal and know better ourselfs, but there are many curious and ambicious in the astral. We should try to put love in all our purposes. Most of new projectors when they are out of body dont know what to do, and I recongnize pride first times. It happened to me, I wanted to tell everyone next morning to demonstrate people I`was making important discoverys.

This post is for everyone, beginners oand well experienced, its important to re evaluate or beliefs systems sometimes. Warriors are always careful to not cheat on themselfes.  There is a whole superhero masks market. Wana be...wana do...I, me, my. Just be careful.

Many people get frustrated when they fail attempting OBE, frustration is lack of self respect and love. Endless pacience means true spiritual purpose and intent. Obe shuld not be a way to self-acceptance, thats like putting hapinnes away from us and it would make us slaves of the ideal we have on ourselves.

OBE a way to escape, or a way of true self discovery?


                Ensoñador

[greatoutdoors]

Ensoñador,have you thought of OBE, telpathy, AP, etc. in terms of the evolutionary, or maybe just maturing, process? I wonder if we are just barely touching an understanding of what we are actually doing. Like a baby, learning to walk, we crawl around and fall a lot. Hopefully, we will get our balance in this astral exercise. Only then will we know what we can do with our new abilities. But I agree that in a lot of cases it is the search for power (aka one-upsmanship) that spurs folks to experiment with the metaphysical -- and I believe they are destined to be disappointed.

As for Mirador, that one has my pity.

[WalkerInTheWoods]

quote:OBE a way to escape, or a way of true self discovery?

I do not know about anyone else, but whenever I have OBEs I feel much more connected to myself. It is like my feelings, thoughts, and personality are much more in my face than on the physical plane. So you really are forced to deal with yourself even more on the astral and other planes than on the physical, whether people realize it or not. OBEs are a bad way to escape who you are.

[Ensoñador]

Fallen Angel: "whenever I have OBEs I feel much more connected to myself. It is like my feelings, thoughts, and personality are much more in my face than on the physical plane".

Fallen Angel:

You are never more conected to who you are than now. There are no better or worst sates of being, just different. It is true we feel more energitized while OBE, but thats because we are not used to feel that. If you cant feel yourself complete right here and now, and you need to have great experiences to feel alive, I guess you could be already traped in power dynamics. Is that your reason to OBE, to feel more yourself and alive? Is happiness something to achieve like an apple on a tree you desire? We as humans can become dependent to almost everything, OBE is for some like having sex just to feel an orgasm. I bet you can feel yourself right now, dont get trapped in the great sensation that obe can produce on you. You said Obe is not like running away for you, but you speek as if Obe is somehow a better world, a better phone to speak to yourself.  Why do we put happiness and freedom away from us in some place we cant see right here? We have to learn to walk and then fly,... have you already walked on earth all there is to walk? Earth is as beautiful and compelte as heaven!!! We seekers are always putting our sight on the sky, as if we hate our earth counterpart, but where ever we are we will always be here and now, and we spend that oportunity looking always somewhere else. I feel no trust when ever I heard the words "other worlds, higher being and states,ilumination, etc". They are all dualistic comprenhensions of life, thats why they are all wrong, or at least not completly right.

                        With love, Ensoñador

[goingslow]

If you dont want to OBE dont OBE simple as that.  But dont mistake this new truth you've found as being everyone's truth.  If its not for you so be it, but dont make it into some higher cause.  There's 24 hours in a day.. many hours are spent sitting doing nothing.. I dont see a case for NOT traveling to other dimentions.  You have something better to do?  there's always time to meditate.. its like like you have to chose hmmm AP today or grow spiritually.. Im gonna project.

[Ensoñador]

Hello everybody: I Have a few questions...

¿What is the purpose of astral travel ann development of ESP? I think its important to establish this. How does this help in our spiritual realization and life? We can have powers but not freedom.
Yes, we can go many places and make a lot of unusual things, but I think this is just a step. Meditation is made to cross astral planes to higuer states of conciouness, there is a danger by getting obssesd in power in the astrals. Also I think we have a msision on this world to do, ¿why does everybody want to leave to other worlds?
Whats the aplication of OBE and ESP in our lifes and in the BIG Plan of God? How do we cooperate with the universe when we attempt OBE. Please help me, because I have alredy projected "many" times and I just dont find a reason to keep doing it. I feel astal projection is just a part of the whole path, but I still dont understand what part doees it play in the whole plan. Yes I can get out of body, but beside power and curiosity, it doesnt feeds my heart needs.

                                             Alex