Good question. What do you define nature as? If you think humans are just another animal part of nature, then perhaps the souls of humans were once animals. However, if you think that nature was DESIGNED for US, then it's likely that humans stay human, and the animals - who all have a role to play in nature - ARE nature. You seem to think that Earth is the only planet with life on it, or you define aliens as 'other types of creatures'. Even 'modern science' and their theories of 'chance' agree that statistically there is bound to be life on many, many other planets.
www.thefreedomofchoice.com - this book pretty much answers everything anyway.
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You seem to think that Earth is the only planet with life on it, or you define aliens as 'other types of creatures'.
hmmm... how did you get that interpretation out of what i said? i'm never good at wording things right. is it because of the quotation marks? i just do that in case there are some people who feel that "aliens" is not a good word, since some beings that we label aliens may actually be creatures that inhabit this earth that we are simply not aware of. also, some people believe that humans are actually alien to the planet earth. haha, i was defining everyone, including humans, as creatures. perhaps "beings" is a better word instead of "creatures". well, i believe that humans and animals and "aliens" and everything in the universe are all part of nature. i definitely don't think that nature was designed for us. i don't see nature as only being limited to earth, nor do i think that earth is the only planet with living beings on it. which is why i'm wondering if any of us has had previous lives as alien beings in some other part of the universe. or are our souls presently bound to reincarnating only on this one planet? thanks.
Sorry i misinterpreted what you said, I guess it was because you asked what would happen if the human race became extinct. Anyway...
I don't know how you came to your conclusions, but logic has proven to me that nature WAS designed for our souls to appreciate, study and learn from. Since you 'believe' in reincarnation I assume that you think there is a creator who established this system and the universe. Would the creator create nature for no reason?
I have the answer to all of your questions but if I answer them, you would (rightly) ask how I KNOW all of this. So I won't say anymore and just recommend that you try reading The Freedom of Choice (its free). www.thefreedomofchoice.com
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Sorry i misinterpreted what you said, I guess it was because you asked what would happen if the human race became extinct.
ah, ok, now i see. well, what i meant by that is the question was kind of referring to one of the previous questions. sorry it got a little confusing. i was trying to say that if you believe that there are certain "soul types" that are assigned to certain species, or even that what you reincarnate as is determined by level of advancement of a soul, what would happen if the whole human race became extinct? what would our souls do then?
as for whether nature was designed for us, it sounds like you are saying that nature is designed for the human race in specific, which is why i disagreed with that statement. while i agree that nature (or more like the universe) is designed for "us" to appreciate, study, and learn from, i don't believe that it is designed
only for the human race. i believe it was designed for all beings that are in it, whether it be animal, human, or not of this planet.
thanks for the link! [:)]
I see.
I think that 'nature' includes all of the animals that perform some function for nature (otherwise there wouldn't be a functioning 'nature' on the planets). You think that nature is also designed for flies - whose JOB it is to decompose waste etc?
The animals ARE A PART of nature so I don't see how it can be designed FOR them.
(sorry this seems off-topic but it should decide whether human souls could have possibly been in animals once)
Could I ask how you arrived at your conclusions? First-hand spiritual experience? Logic? Guess?
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Originally posted by Meedan
I don't know how you came to your conclusions, but logic has proven to me that nature WAS designed for our souls to appreciate, study and learn from. Since you 'believe' in reincarnation I assume that you think there is a creator who established this system and the universe. Would the creator create nature for no reason?
No offense but it seems to me rather arrogant to think that everything was created for humans.
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The animals ARE A PART of nature so I don't see how it can be designed FOR them.
Humans are likewise part of nature, even though we try to distance ourselves from it. Kill all the trees, no oxygen, no humans. Humans are part of nature and its cycles.
Humans, plants, animals, all of nature are one. Neither is more important than the other. Remove one part and the whole is changed.
If I believed in reincarnation (which I really have no idea so I don't believe either way really) then I see no reason why one could not reincarnate as an animal, plant, alien, or whatever. All have something to teach us. Living their experiences can teach us a lot.
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Originally posted by fallnangel77
No offense but it seems to me rather arrogant to think that everything was created for humans.
I understand how it can seem arrogant, if you haven't thought it through yet. Is it arrogant to think that every single appliance in a house was made for the owner?
What about the bathtub, surely every appliance in that house could have been made for the bathtub! Anyway, that's why it's not 'arrogant' to think that nature was designed for souls/intellects/spirits/whatever you call it who only inhabit human bodies.
Why was nature designed and for who? Nobody?
All I can tell you is that I base my views entirely ON LOGIC.
eek... i didn't want this to become an argument over my own personal beliefs. none of my beliefs are set in stone, though there are some things that i tend to lean toward. i just wanted to see what people had to say, what little theories they have about reincarnation and how it works.
but, here's my perspective anyway: the creatures of this planet (and elsewhere, i suppose) are our "brothers" and "sisters" (and, er, whatever gender variations) that deserve respect. just because their way of life is different from ours, and they cannot do certain things that we do, does not make their souls and their experiences any less valuable. even they think, even they feel emotions, even they learn from their experiences (in many species the useful information learned is passed on to the next generations, even in such menial creatures as ants... those are some really amazing little insects. you ought to read a book on them). i've been studying animals since i was a little kid, and they never cease to fill me with wonder, especially when i see how much we have in common with them. their perspectives may be alien to us, may be incomprehensible at times, but if we met an "intelligent" alien being that has a totally alien, incomprehensible perspective from us, that doesn't make them less than us or more than us (which i guess in that case, if we found beings better than us, then that means the universe was actually created for them to experience and enjoy, not us, us puny insignificant bugs on a puny insignificant planet). why would "the creator" favor us over all beings (geez we ain't exactly something to be proud of, a lot of the time)?
yes, animals serve very important functions for mother nature; their lives revolve very much around their little "jobs" in nature, but we have our little jobs, our little roles in the human "jungle". whether you're the underpaid, little known cashier at McD's or some famous rock star entertaining the masses, you're still experiencing life, still experiencing pleasures and pains and learning lessons. heck, even human "parasites" still experience all that.
basing your reasoning on logic doesn't necessarily mean you've come to the absolute "correct" conclusion, because it is your logic. i've seen people who pride themselves on being so logical come up with so many different conclusions on the same subjects. if they were all so logical, you would think that they'd all go down the same thinking pathways, because there wouldn't be many other courses. i like to think that i'm a pretty logical person, but i know that what i see as logical some people don't see it that way, while i may not see others' logic as logical, either. our reasoning is always tainted by what we would like to believe, what we refuse to believe, what we like to think of ourselves as, what we wanna hear, don't wanna hear, our personal experiences, etc etc. unless you're like Data from star trek. and even then, his logic only got him so far. besides, this is a forum full of subjects that pretty much defy logic most of the time, that would send many logical people gnashing their teeth in frustration at our foolishness. so don't shake that "logic" stick at me. [:P]
doubtsevenhere17, good post.
Like I said, I can't explain my position in a short way. That book does though.
I guess my mentality is different from most other users on this board. You wanted to hear different people's theories about reincarnation. You probably didn't want to discuss it to find out which one is CORRECT. That is what I would have been going for. I seek the truth and wouldn't stop till I get it, so I would criticize saying "that can't be true because..." etc.
So, sorry about that. [:I]
www.thefreedomofchoice.com
When did a soul becom a equated with being a human in the physical plane?
We are souls that, at least as far as the posters are concerned, have incarnated in the human form. Others may choose, or need, to incarnate in some other manner.
The tubs are for the humans, the kitty litter for the cats.
Let's not assume that only humaniform forms are souls [;)]
2cents & L&L
jouni
Hi All,
Many people tend to see us as humans with a soul that incarnate here and only here until we are finished with the lessons and we then re-integrate with the creator force. That is still looking at a small picture while wearing blinkers to reduce our perceptions from these two little windows we call eyes.
We are really great and powerful Souls that chose to come here for a round of incarnatios in order to provide the Universe/creative force with experience of itself. Before we volunteered to do this we existed in other places/worlds/realms, and when we are finished here we will go on to other existences in other possibilites.
Sometimes we also choose to have an existence in-between incarnating to this world. The options for us are endless, as we are parts of the immense creative awareness, and so we are not confined nor defined by human perceptions and standards. We are much, much more than that.
There are Soul levels/groups etc, but they are relevant to our Earth framework, and by no means are they the climax of our abilities and opportunities, no matter what 'level' we have incarnated from. So many people talk about new and old Souls, without ever understanding that there is really no such thing, there is no line in the sand that we pass to become an old soul, no level or grade that we evolve from in order to be called an old soul. We are all ancient, very ancient, having emerged from the creative awareness at a period of it's early dissemination. The only way that one can be described as being a young soul is in relation to having recently come to this world for experience, so even then they are not new or young Souls, only new to this round and place.
I hope that this has helped to answer some of your questions.
Love Always.[:)]
Meedan, I am atleast glad that you have used logic to come to your conclusion. I have thought about it as well and used logic but have come to a different conclusion. I was not implying that you personally are arrogant or foolish for your conclusion, but I do think the idea itself is arrogant. But we are all free to explore all ideas and I respect that.
Interesting post, Tayesin. Thank you for sharing.
I frequently get "visions" like flashes of memories, usually triggered by something visual. These memories are of another time and place.
In a discussion with another former member of this forum some time back, we looked at each other's photos and both got chilling visions and feelings of having worked together as like a pilot and navigator exploration team, using technology that was completely unlike anything we have here on Earth. Between that and the strong feelings I get from time to time, I do believe that these memories are not of Earth. I do feel that I have lived elsewhere in this universe.
It's only feelings and snippets of visions, but it's enough to give me an indication of what might have been.
Regards,
James.
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Like I said, I can't explain my position in a short way. That book does though.
I guess my mentality is different from most other users on this board. You wanted to hear different people's theories about reincarnation. You probably didn't want to discuss it to find out which one is CORRECT. That is what I would have been going for. I seek the truth and wouldn't stop till I get it, so I would criticize saying "that can't be true because..." etc.
So, sorry about that.
no problem,
meedan! [:)] we all have our own approaches to things. haha, there's nothing wrong with a good debate![;)] it just wasn't my goal for this particular thread; i just wanted to see people's responses to give me some things to think about and help me maybe come to some of my own conclusions since i'm still feeling so unsure about everything.
tayesin, thanks for that most interesting post! now, i know it's possible for us to take a look at our past human lives... is it possible to look at our past lives as other beings, or are the memories blocked off for some reason? like until we are finished with our time here on earth or something? are there ever people who report viewing a past life as another species?
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So many people talk about new and old Souls, without ever understanding that there is really no such thing, there is no line in the sand that we pass to become an old soul, no level or grade that we evolve from in order to be called an old soul. We are all ancient, very ancient, having emerged from the creative awareness at a period of it's early dissemination. The only way that one can be described as being a young soul is in relation to having recently come to this world for experience, so even then they are not new or young Souls, only new to this round and place.
i like this idea very much! it seems (from what i've been able to gather so far) that the general thought about "old souls" and "new souls" is that the old souls are supposedly people who seem to be wiser and more spiritually advanced, while the newer ones are people who are pretty much wrapped up in the more petty, material concerns and still have a lot to learn about what's truly important. but if our souls are all about the same "age", then perhaps the souls that are newer to human life are just trying to learn how to deal with these human bodies, emotions, impulses, and needs, and are not necessarily "less advanced". so all the experience and wisdom we gained from our non-human lives... what happens to all that? is it that it might not be useful/applicable to human life? or is it all just forgotten temporarily while we're stuck going through the human incarnations (a soul is forced to start from scratch when it enters it's first human incarnation)? or does some of it come through? i hope this makes sense. i'm having trouble articulating just what it is i'm trying to ask. [:o)]
james s, very interesting, also! [:)]so i guess a little bit of those memories do leak through every now and then! i wonder if i'll ever have some flashes like that. or maybe i have, and just didn't realize what it was, or didn't realize that it could be connected to a non-human life! i'll have to think about it!
thanks for your input, everyone!
i was wondering if we always reincarnate as human beings, or if we ever have lives as other types of creatures, like animals or "aliens". has there ever been anyone who recalled a past life as something other than human? and if we are always humans in every life, what could it be that keeps us from coming back as other life forms? are there certain "soul types" that are assigned to certain species? or is it determined by level of advancement of a soul? and what would happen if say, the whole human race became extinct? what would our souls do then? hope these aren't too dumb of questions. thanks for any input!