Meditation ?

[Tom]

The problem with depending on things external to yourself for meditation is that if you find yourself without them it can be difficult to continue. I began to see external aids as cheating. Now I'm reconsidering. It seems that if something can help speed things along, then it should be used. Keeping in mind the problem of depending on something can go a long way to preventing dependence.

Sometimes I use caffeine, too, to help concentrate. I don't use it every time, but it really can help some of the time.

Enjoy your CD.

[andy]

Hi Tom,

Thanks for your response.I must say im ultra happy about the caffine part.I've cut back on it to a degree however without it I feel like someone has slipped me a mickie.Im sleeping more to try and solve my waking fatiuge but im getting no results so i'll slow down at the gym next and see what that yeilds me.[I eat well]
As for aided and none aided methods I will continue the crosstrianing approche.It works best when doing pysical exercise of sorts so why not when inducing trance,o.b exct?

Peace,Andy    

[goku22]

I'm so glad that I never started drinking coffee. I'm fully awake in the morning (except for the first few minutes) and the only thing I need for that is a nice shower (or a head-dunk in a stream if I'm camping). It would suck to NEED something to focus your mind, I'd be so ticked at myself for relying on a stinking drug. I'm not sure about this, but I read somewhere that there's dozens of classified poisons in coffee. Can anyone verify this? I guess I should add something to keep this more on topic. I do like to listen to music to meditate, but I don't need it, it just feels nice. Actually the best seesions that I have are without music, now that I think of it, so I wonder if meditation aids not only make you depend on them but also limit the amount of progress you can make.   Ben

[Jacara]

In my limited experience, the more "aids" I have (candles, music), the more things there are to distract me.
And I too am largely caffeine-free and glad for it; I only have an occasional cup of green tea.  But to each his own, just don't go overboard with it.  =)

[andy]

Hey now goku22 it not like im shooting the stuff up.I actually like coffees taste and only upon turning 23 [now 35]and having to start a carrer that requiered getting up 3 hours earlyer did I ever start drinking it in the morning.Had I been able to get to bed earllyer I may not have chossen coffee for a morning boost but with responsibilitys as a new father going to bed was not an option.
Coffee in the morning may not be the best thing in the world for you but one cup a day wont kill ya.
I know nothing of your lifestyle or responsibilitys howevere when I was your age I too had harsh opinions of other lifestyles around me by comparison to my own [though I viewed myself as open minded].My,what age,limited time and resposibilitys will do to the ego and lifestyle!
Last but not least I at 20 I certainly was'nt going to turn out like my parents.Looks like they'er getting the last laugh.

Peace,Andy  

[Tom]

The essential things are practice and study. We probably all agree that people who do nothing get nothing done. If I don't choose to meditate, can anyone do it for me? Also, it is important to study rather than to rely on only one's own thoughts and ideas. If we didn't need to work with other people then we wouldn't be here. Stdy gives direction to practice and removes doubts. Now as to the deatils of how study and practice should be done: any way you can. I buy coffee beans from a co-op and grind them when ready to brew them. My water is purified with reverse osmosis. My filter is a re-usable gold filter which lets through the tiniest particles of the beans. When it gets cold I dump it and get more. When it has been sitting on the heat too long and gets scorched, I stop drinking it. You see, coffee is a ritual for me. It isn't as formal or detailed as the tea ceremony from Japan, but it helps to clear my mind even before the first sip of coffee. This is not to say that I need to make coffee or that I need to drink it. What I am saying is that I enjoy coffee. Sometimes I drink it to help concentrate and to warm up. I get cold easily. My teacher and the Lama who initiated me into Buddhism said that drinking coffee is a good thing. What they did not like was the caffeine pills, especially the ones with ephedrine in them. I still use them because I find them helpful. Not every time I get cold or tired, though. It is not an addiction, but even if it were the results of my continuing study and practice would help me to kick the habit. My body would start to reject caffeine. This is consistent both with what I have read in many books on yoga and consistent with my own experience. My body stopped tolerating meat and it stopped tolerating over-doses of candy. At times I find that I cannot tolerate alcohol. Sometimes my friend's cigarette smoke bothers me. The main thing is that I study and practice. Other things change, and I react accordingly. There is no such thing as cheating or of making practice too easy.

[goku22]

Andy

Sorry, I didn't mean to offend, I wasn't trying to attack your use of coffee, but more coffee itself. Which I know is silly, because it's just a plant, I guess maybe I mean the industry behind it. Also, my mom has been fully addicted to the stuff for my entire life, which has made me a little harsh in the matter. It's just such a stupid thing, she gets up in the morning and you can't even talk to her until has her first sip, that's BS. When my dad quit (actually he just drastically lowered the amount he had) he had horrible headaches for days. I just don't like how other bad things get attacked (cigarettes, alcohol (I know that a little beer or wine is actually good for you, I mean in excess), etc..) but coffee get's left alone, when it's just as addictive as them, if less harmful. I'm starting to understand that viewpoint you're talking about Andy, I still have alot of harsh viewpoints (though alomost none of them actually interfere with my daily life, I only think about them when they're brought up) but I notice that in me and I try to balance it all out, it's just kind of hard because you always have to be aware of what is going on inside your head. About turning into your parents, I'm pretty much already my mom in personality, so it doesn't worry me much. I guess we're supposed to take what we see in our parents, good and bad, hold the good, and make sure we don't do the bad, that way, each generation gets a little wiser. Otherwise, what's the point, they're just supposed to ensure our physical survival to keep the human race going? I feel that there's more to it than that. Wow, that was a fun little rant.  Ben

[bitsmart]

I myself am an over-user of coffee; I drink too much. I'm trying to cut down seriously at the same time I'm starting to work the graveyard shift. I've recently found that when I feel really tired, a short 5-15 minute meditation actually refreshes me and wakes me up. Try it...

bitsmart -
information illumination -
bitsmart@bitsmart.org -

[PeacefulWarrior]

My two cents on the topic:
Coffee should be avoided...although I drink Pepsi/Coke, etc. every once in a while.  If one has a dependency, however, on anything (ie. soda, coffee, chocolate, etc.) it should be broken as soon as possible.

I struggle with over eating...I am not obese and I don't think my friends would even say I am over weight, but food is like any other "drug"...it requires moderacy and respect.

I guess I just stated the obvious....and the horse IS dead.  (:



Edited by - daniel on 23 March 2002  22:32:49

[andy]

Hi all,

I have just begun to meditate in the mornings as a way to get some  focus practice on the go.I originaly was going to use mentanome tape or guided o.b cd that I just purchesed.Then ofcourse I read while fipping through A.D that aids could lead to dependency.Talk about timing,I just bought the cd.Anyways i've decided to split it in two.Natural meditation in the morning and aided in the evening well before bed time.
Some questions for you who are fimilar with this subject.
1-What type of natural meditation do you use?
2-Is caffine say,one and half hours before meditation a good or bad thing?

Currently I wake and drink coffee while doing dream recall and recording.Then I go to the gym for 1 hour and upon returning home begin my "black mindless meditation".This method has worked for me in the past however I am aware of my breating now and thought to try breath awarness meditation when it occoured to me that I might be creating an aid.

P.S For the record in the past I used to have difficulty with breating rhythm and have found that regular cardio workouts solved my problem.I soppose its the lungs capacity that determines the simplicity of breathing.

Peace,Andy