I spent several hours attempting to discuss AP with 2 people who were interested and somewhat open minded, yet too involved with their current belief system to go beyond a certain point. After thinking about for a while I realized that such individuals are BSL (Belief System Limited).
I will attempt a definition.
Belief System Limitation: A self-imposed barrier that prevents an otherwise interested and open-minded individual from considering any viewpoints beyond or not contained as a subset of their belief system. Such individuals are defined as Belief System Limited.
It's a "belief"... as soon as you "believe" something you no longer have to try to find an actual answer.
Belief = pseudoanswers... pseudoknowledge.
This is why being an open minded skeptic is the best and most logical position one can keep.
Don't believe things... don't disbelieve things... simply put them in the maybe pile until you have enough DIRECT EXPERIENCE to "KNOW" one way or the other. :)
I live by the adage "I believe half of what I hear, but everything I see".
This teaches you how to "look through" to see what people are really trying to say! :wink:
Many years ago, one Sunday morning some visitors called unannounced. They were people I knew and were always pleasant. I invited them in. A watchtower magazine later we had a discussion on the bible referencing that we are of light. A good hours discussion on God and projection etc had them bemused. They left informed on our art to seek higher authority on this.
As they were locked into a belief system which they followed religiously, they showed an interest way past what I expected.
I wasn't going to be converted and offered some insight at one if their meetings if it was asked. Their higher authority said its not what they'd discuss as it's God's way to give this in the afterlife to those deserved of a good life. Or words to the effect.
I was bemused by this acceptance.
Other religious followers outright denied it as devils work...
There is also something called "chemicalization". It is a term coined sometime in the 1800's to denote when an old belief system finally gives way to a new one- What some call 'grokking', and in spanish some call 'cuajar'. I'm only illustrating this to make the point- when you're ready to overcome your cognitive dissonance, you're ready. Everything in its' season.
To believe or to have a belief in something, is starting to almost be considered a dirty thought. I have many ideas that I am inclined to think are true but would be considered to far out there or on the fringe for most people to even consider. I'm not necessarily referring to people here but society in general.
Most religious people have no problem in believing that an all powerful being is in control of everything yet when you try and tell them that they too possess many of the same aspects and powers of this divinity, they look at you as if you are off your rocker.
Many would rather believe that they aren't special or good enough to be considered as such. There's nothing wrong with having a little humility but when you think that your "salvation" is dependent upon you considering yourself lower than dirt, then I think it's time to reevaluate your belief system.
That's an extreme description and I'm not picking on any particular belief system but I feel that each of us is a powerful being in our own right and any BS that preaches otherwise is misleading.
I hope I didn't lose any friends by saying that. :-D
Quote from: Astralzombie on February 08, 2014, 17:32:12
I hope I didn't lose any friends by saying that. :-D
You're fired.
;) hehe
I found it amazing that these people seemed to think there was something wrong with me because I have come up with my own ideas about God, afterlife, our purpose here, etc. It was almost like they had never considered that you could actually do that. They were constantly checking in with their "belief book" and conferring with each other to see if what I was saying was allowable. Even trying at times to "make it fit". "We believe in the God of our Book, but what god do you believe in?" Actually, I thought there was only one. So much for ignorance being an excuse. Apparently their God was kind of an exclusive "members only" God. I could have some other God if I wanted, but they had the "God of the Book". You could make an advertisement: "What God is in your wallet?"
At one point they asked me, "where did you get all this from?" as if there must be some source of my ideas. There was kind of a condescending tone to the question. Beliefs seemed to be something that someone else comes up with. Your job is to consume them, and regurgitate appropriately when prodded without questioning. It was a really good experience for me because I told them I used to be in their belief system myself at one point, but left it. That definitely caused some problems for them, but that wasn't my intention. The woman seemed to feel sorry for me, giving me some aaw-poor-thing kind of looks and talk. "But don't you want to go to our heaven?" She asked in a soothing voice. I felt myself starting to growl but this was containable. It was an easy question to answer and I was almost ready for it. "No, I've thought about it actually and quite sure that I don't want to go there". She was shocked. Then I asked her, "but what if there was someone there who said they could show that the truth was different from your belief system, would you listen to them." She answered, "No, not of it disagrees with the Book." That prompted me to say inside myself, "Thank you God, for saving me from this belief system, AMEN."
Quote from: Xanth on February 08, 2014, 18:37:30
You're fired.
;) hehe
I know that you are only doing what you have to do but do you think it may be possible that I could receive a honorable discharge.
That way I can keep my insurance and decoder ring. :-D
Quote from: deepspace on February 08, 2014, 19:15:07
I found it amazing that these people seemed to think there was something wrong with me because I have come up with my own ideas about God, afterlife, our purpose here, etc. It was almost like they had never considered that you could actually do that.
This is what they are taught! :roll:
Don't question what you are being told, just follow it! :roll:
This practice (Astral projection) shows you the truth, but only in the way that you can understand it or at least ALLOW it to.
You get to see things and then can perceive them or categorize them I should say in a way that fits for you. But mostly you have an open mind, not gullible or naïve, but an open mind going into it.
Most of these people haven't even taken a "sneak peak" into Pandora's Box. We have ALLOWED it to open wide and share it's contents. :-)
Quote from: Astralzombie on February 08, 2014, 17:32:12I hope I didn't lose any friends by saying that. :-D
Losing 'friends' because of speaking your mind (and thereby speaking the truth) would show that they weren't friends in the first place. :wink:
I want a decoder ring. :lol:
I think if I have any BSL's It's due to my short attention span and lack of comprehension .. I am interested in a lot of topics (especially of the metaphysical, quantum physical, theory of relativity) and although I wouldn't soncider myself dumb per say I can't find any definitions of which that I can say I understand. From there it gets put into the too hard basket like a lot of things in my life then I move on! ... Until it eventually comes around again, haha
Quote from: jessicalynncp on May 27, 2014, 06:25:22
I think if I have any BSL's It's due to my short attention span and lack of comprehension .. I am interested in a lot of topics (especially of the metaphysical, quantum physical, theory of relativity) and although I wouldn't soncider myself dumb per say I can't find any definitions of which that I can say I understand. From there it gets put into the too hard basket like a lot of things in my life then I move on! ... Until it eventually comes around again, haha
I'd say that *MOST* (99%) of people on this planet have at least one BSL I can think of.
What a "Dream" is. It's probably one of the most prevalent BSL humanity as a whole holds.
Most people have this belief that they know what a dream is.
They have the common societal belief of what a dream is.
It's the socially accepted perspective, which really has no basis in anything. :)
Most people who come here to this forum (or anywhere really) start telling us how their experience was like a dream or how their experience couldn't have been a projection because it was a dream.
They do all these comparisons and they use this word "dream" as the basis of their comparison.
How can you compare something to a dream when nobody knows what a dream really is? - this is probably one of the biggest limitations you can place upon yourself when learning to explore the non-physical, because it's the basis behind our entire consciousness system.
When I started learning about the astral, I was dabbling in different belief systems, but ultimately I settled on the one that was in my family for generations... especially after getting grounded for researching Wicca and almost cut off from my friends. Since Wicca was "of the devil". *rolls eyes* The whole time I was getting further adsorbed into their belief system and trying to conform to it, I thought to myself. "Why is this devil such a bad person, why does he want to cause trouble for everyone.. Seems to me that would be pretty boring to constantly be causing everyone trouble, why can't people just own up to their own actions and stop blaming it some devil."
I never really shared my thoughts with the people at church, I asked "normal" allowable questions. I participated, I got adsorbed in the belief system and they started to recognize me as someone who had a "calling" for the kingdom of god. (almost capitalized god lol, habit from bs) I hated myself, even more than usual, I felt pressure to live up to the perfect ideal "Christ like" persona and I couldn't.. because it wasn't me sure I want to be a good person, but a lot of the things that I experienced or had different ideas about didn't match up with the bible, so that was wrong and I needed to "pray". Then there were simple things like, cussing or exploring normal teenage curiosities... doing what was natural, was a sin and I would go to hell for it, when there was nothing really wrong with it... One of the things that they taught was "uncut hair is the glory of god" this applied to women... my sister for instance had hair all the way touching the ground.. fine in all but I hated having long hair.
So when time came as I exploded on the inside from to much pressure to change who I was the first thing I shed as I got rid of my belief system was my hair. :P I cut it sooooo short that the hairstylist and everyone in that salon that day asked me if I was sure I wanted get rid of all that hair. I had everyone's eyes as the hairstylist chopped off a foot of hair lol. Getting out of the belief systems was a slow process, one of the hardest parts about it was changing what I thought god was, but I have finally come to a definition for god that makes me feel right... not because someone else told me its right, its because it right to me and can mean whatever you want it to mean.
God= existence existing. Which means to me that just the fact that anything exists is a great power wonder in itself.
Today when people ask me to believe, (if I'm sure it won't reach the ears of my family) I tell them I belief in and Open minded spirituality. Throw anything at me and I will consider the possibility of it.. I may not accept it, but I will be open to its possibility.
>_< I'm kind of glad this topic came up, I've been actually thinking about these things alot, since I've just now fully shed my old belief system a few months ago.
I've been working on this whole mentality of "ask what it is, don't say what you think it is" : D In preparation for when I start to have my fully aware NP experiences.