Carlos Castaneda?

[Tisha]

Hello Soulfire,

A story may be True, even if the facts aren't quite right.  This is especially True when a sorcerer gets to the higher levels, and so-called "reality" starts to get . . . shall we say, shifty.

I've been in altered states when I've stood still,looked down at the ground, looked up again, and found myself in a different place.  Granted, it was only a 45 degree shift in my vantage point but it sure freaked me out.  Taking out the garbage was never again the same . . .

So go the Casteneda stories.  In a way, his books are retellings of the same stories, as he developed and re-membered (the opposite of dis-membered) what actually happened.  A part of the job of a sorcerer, he says, is remembering the training one receives while in the Otherworld.  I, too, find this to be very True.  In fact, much of what he says actually happened may have happened in other Realms.  But who really cares, right?  Did it have to happen in ordinary time for it to be real or true?  I think not . . .

So I say read his stuff!  You could try to read them in the order that they were published, if you like to read (there are a lot). If you want to read only one book, pick one of the later ones, as he remembers more at this point, and things seem much more magical.

I give different advice to women.  Sure they should read a Casteneda or two, but women are better off reading the stories written by his female students, Taisha Abelar being one of them.  

[Soulfire]

Thank you Tisha for your insights on this.  

I will try one of his later books as you advise and see how I feel about it.  Then if I feel there is more there for me, perhaps I will start from the earliest book.  

--Soulfire

[clandestino]

http://www.sustainedaction.org/intro.htm

hi soulfire !

I've only read "the art of dreaming" and "the 2nd ring of power", and I don't profess to be an expert on either !

However, "the art of dreaming" illustrates how the movement between physical / non-physical is sometimes not as clear cut as, say, waking up from a dream. As such I'd say its understandable that there are plenty of critics of Castaneda who are not sure whether or not events actually happened....perhaps they do not appreciate the reality of the non-physical world, and only view the books in terms of physical reality.

The only criticism I had was that sometimes his books read more like novels than accounts, but I guess this was just his style.

Read them !
Mark

[Spirit_k9]

Soulfire,

Carlos Castaneda, "the man" was a con artist. He took ideas from many different belief systems and tried to make a unique spin on shamanic sorcery. He did this with only one thing in mind, to create a following, and therefore a cash flow. This cash (cow) flow still exists beyond 'the man' in the form of "ClearGreen", his pet organization.

However, please do not confuse the the man and the ideas...many of his ideas are based in truth. I will credit Carlos with a few things, including the fact that he opened many doors for inquiring minds and sent many a soul on journeys for their own spiritual truths.

His writings, as many others writings, are barely more than food for thought. In your journey toward finding your own path, you should consider what people say about their own, but NEVER adopt what they say as dogma. Instead, seek, learn, experience for yourself, then integrate this experience and lesson into your path. This, along with your base-line belief system (spirit, God, etc) will take you home.

[Adrian]

Greetings,

I have never read a Castaneda book so I cannot comment directly on his work.

I have however read many accounts of his works from students, and in particular a book called "The Path" by Esmerelda Arana who was heavily influenced by Castaneda.

He first and foremost appears to promote what he claims to be Toltec sorcery.  Sorcery in and of itself is not the best thing to focus on in my opinion; it is not the same as Magic in the truest sense, but rather the abstract use of Universal laws without undertanding or being aligned with them. He also appears to rely heavily on lucid dreaming for his experiences and knowledge. Lucid dreaming does not take place on the Astral proper as would be reached by phasing or other forms of Astral projection, but is rather based in the personal human psyche aspect of the Astral, or the collective human consciousness at best where people can share the same dreams.

In view of these things, I would personally be inclined to leaving these books alone, except possibly for interest.

With best regards,

Adrian.

[goingslow]

His books are great and I highly recommend reading them.

[LA FORET MAUVE]

He ho, Adrian...i like you be you just wrote something stupid here ! [] The Castaneda's books are worth reading, you can't judge it without reading it ! The point you said about sorcery has nothing in common with what is written in the books...and there is not only lucid dreaming, but consciousness projection too ! So, Adrian, i suggest you to read at last "the teachings of Don Juan"...you'll see, it's like the little ones in my avatar...life changing but how can you judge it without having tried it ? [][]
I don't care about the man behind the books...because the teachings are too powerfull to have been "invented" just by "someone"...

[clandestino]

Hi La forget mauve !

quote:The Castaneda's books are worth reading, you can't judge it without reading it !

I think you're being a little harsh on Adrian here, as he has read accounts of castaneda's work, plus he did qualify initially that he hasn't read any castaneda books.

Adrian, I don't know anything really about sorcery or magic, but I recall reading that what castaneda learnt had been passed down to him from aeons back, onto the Toltecs, and finally on to don juan.

I disagree with you on the lucid dreaming point, but thats because I personally don't differentiate too much between astral projection and lucid dreaming.

regards,
Mark

[Soulfire]

First off I want to thank everyone who has offered their help to me on this.  I sincerenly appreciate your opinions.

quote:Originally posted by clandestino

I personally don't differentiate too much between astral projection and lucid dreaming.

My experience has led me to believe this also.  I think both dreams (lucid or not) and astral projection are both experienced when the energy body is seperated from the physical body.  The main difference that I have noticed seems to be the degree and quality of consciousness experienced.  In  regular dreams you have almost no consciousness.  In lucid dreams my level of consciousness varies quite a bit, but at its "best" is indistinguishable to me from a conscious exit AP other than the manner in which I achieved that state.

Most people on these forums seem to believe that lucid dreams and AP are totally different, but I just cannot go along with that based on my personal experience.

--Soulfire

[LA FORET MAUVE]

oops ! I didn't wanted to sound harsh, sorry ! [B)]
I still suggest to read it before speaking...
I must precise that it is not meant to become a new Bible [] but there is more than words of wisdom is those books...there is...techniques ![|)]

[Gandalf]

Doesnt Carlos teach that the soul actually dies at death or at least is 'wiped clean' and so therefor the magician's aim is to amass enough knoweledge and energy to escape this fate? So while the common joe happily walks towards oblivion, the castenada sorcerer will hopefully escape this end?

Intersting theory, although it seems to bear little resemblence to what I know of the astral or the general picture painted by other modern researchers like Moen and Monroe. I am a little wary of doctrines that promote the old christian style 'believe in me or die' scenarios, but perhaps this is not what carlos is saying, perhaps I have misread this part.

BTW Carlos was gettting a lot of his info from snacking on peyote, not that that's bad but his experiences and what he expected to find were shaped by what he was taught by his shaman teacher. We might wonder what he might have found if he never had this 'guidance', perhaps his visions might have been quite different.

Douglas

[Soulfire]

"Snacking on peyote"...that's a comical way to phrase it.  []

--Soulfire

[LA FORET MAUVE]

In fact, Carlos Castaneda was guided during the sessions with "the little smoke" (hallucinogenic preparation) but not with the Peyotl. He was alone in the experience. Well not alone, he was with Mescalito, the spirit of Peyotl. His shamanic teacher used to say that Mescalito is a master in itself, taching "the good way".
Anyone ever tried Peotl here ?

[Spirit_k9]

To the post (by Douglas I think) regarding what Carlos was talking about when you 'die'....

First off, Carlos tried like the devil to speak in parable fashion that sounded as intelligent as possible. When he spoke of dying he did so in several ways. The way most quoted by his readership and/or followers is 'being eaten by the eagle'.  Supposedly, when you die, if you do not have the ability to raise your awareness with the energyyou've spend a lifetime gathering, you will not 'sneak past the left side of the eagle'.

Taken in parable, this is fine.  Through my own experience in journeying, I find his concepts of energy gathering to be pretty ignorant. (and he crosses the term with "power" often, even confusing it further with the term "knowledge") A basic even in physics is that energy cannot be created nor destroyed, only borrowed. If you follow Castaneda's logic, even if you succeded in your efforts following his doctrine, you would eventually 'die' anyway.

However....  What he describes as the "Eagle" -is- actually the Spirit, God, whatever term you prefer.  The path to freedom lies between the birth Spirit gave you and your final moments here. If you do not advance toward "freedom", or maintaining awareness beyond death, you will become one with Spirit again at death.  I'd go out on a limb here and say that 95% or better of all religions seek this as their "heaven", and that's where they want to be.

Yet, just as Spirit knew many would return, some would not. Some, the ones that manage to attain a level of awareness through the use of energy and their own metaphysical states during their lifetime, will remain free. Not return to Spirit to become part of the whole.

This is not to say that if you do this you are an adversary to Spirit, quite the contrary. As a mother gives birth to a child, raises it, and watches it walk free toward the waiting world, so Spirit gave birth to our awarenesses, watches as we grow or don't grow, and waits to see if we will succeed in gaining this precious freedom.  We are still free to love Spirit and be thankfull of course, as we hope to love our parents...

Beyond this point I'd begin to severely diverge off to other topics, so I'll stop here []

This is based on my own experiences journeying and more. I take into consideration that each person is idividual, and your perceptions may be quite different had you followed the path I have, but here it is. Enjoy your paths []

[DjM]

quote:Originally posted by LA FORET MAUVE
[br how can you judge it without having tried it ? [][]

I believe that this statement is incorrect.  How can one judge at all without the proper WISDOM?

I know that poison will kill my body if I injest it.  Ergo, I am not going to try it so that I can...judge its affect later on.

It is true, we should not be jaded in our thoughts.  However, we cannot be foolish and try things that we have summized will hurt us.  Memory serves to enable us to profit from our past experiences, else we would be apt to repeat the same mistakes over and over (i.e. the definition of insanity).

Adrian was simply pointing the difference between white and black magic rather politely.  Personally, I wouldn't advise someone to head down a path which might well land them in a hole so that they might judge it for themselves.  In addition, I wouldn't forget to tell you that there's a hole over there.  This is perfect wisdom: to not put something in someone's way or leave something in their way, either.

[Spirit_k9]

very funny. Just noticed: DjM. (Don Juan Matus)

Hilarious dude, bugs bunny would have been just as good a choice LOL!

ahhh, hehehe, thanks for the chuckle []

[Rob]

Hey,

I've read most called "The Teachings of Don Carlos" by Victor Sanchez - its a practical guide to using the techniques and ideas in Caslos Castandeda books. Its all very good, I have to say. I particularly like some of the ideas on the nature of reality - being in certain "bands" and etc. Cant remember the names....
but yeah, some of the techniques and great - the ones on hammering the ego down to size spring to mind as being particularly genius! As for "sorcery" - well, I dont think the nature of the "sorcery" in castanedas books is quite the same as that which is typically looked down upon by occultists and etc.
As for him being a "fraud" - well, it might be that Don Juan doesn't exist. I dont know, and wouldn't be suprised. I could, however, quite understand why he would write about this great shaman person, put all the knowledge and etc into those books in the form of stories. Many good reasons for doing that - for instance, it makes sure that he is not setting himself up on any pedestal he doesn't want to be on, and keeps him in the "student" perspective (ie where we all should be).

[Spirit_k9]

There are a lot of good ideas in the books Castaneda wrote as well as Sanchezs and Eagle Feather's books. Lots of stuff to get your mind open and working....that's a good thing []

On that basis, I personally don't care if any of the characters existed or not, it doesn't matter. Ultimately you have to find the truth for yourself anyway. My only problem was with Castaneda -the man- and his hypocricy....morover, the organization he founded and their jack booted tactics used to secure the cash flow. That part isn't a spiritual arguement, it's a condemnation of a greedy man. Even that doesn't matter now, the guy's dead. (He didn't take it with him either!)

The ideas were great, the man sucked []

[Mustardseed]

(Point Made by Trisha)
A story may be True, even if the facts aren't quite right.

In fact, much of what he says actually happened may have happened in other Realms.  But who really cares, right?  Did it have to happen in ordinary time for it to be real or true?  I think not . . .

So I say read his stuff!  

Dear Trisha
As you might know, we are debating wether the bible is historically true or not (the thread with Allanon)  and Robert is saying that if it is not, the teachings in it should be dismissed. I find your point very good and I assume that it holds true with any book. You should join the dabate with this very good point. []
Hope to see you there speaking up for the Bible.
Kind regards Mustardseed
PS Couldnt help it

[Spirit_k9]

.....annnnnnnnd what I wrote above applies to the Bible too IMO. I don't care if the characters are real or not, the book and ideas within provide food for the gray matter to ponder, wether or not the authors were full of it or relating historical fact.

[|)]

[Tisha]

Exactly.  I don't take the bible literally.  Sometimes I wonder if the people who say they DO take it literally ever actually READ the whole Old Testament!  I sure did, and I sure wouldn't want to act the ways God supposedly instructed people to act way back then.  But this belongs in that other topic, so I'll stop now.

[Soulfire]

Hi,

I've been seeing the works of Carlos Castaneda referenced in a lot of my recent reading and have recently browsed a few of his books.  Curious, I did an internet search on him to see what I could find out.  Apparently his legitimacy is hotly debated and I saw a few disturbing things.  I don't normally put a lot of stock in people's "opinions", but I saw a couple references to Carlos actually ADMITTING he was a fraud.  If this is true, I really do not want to spend my time and money on his books.

Does anybody know anything about this?  Also, has anyone who has actually followed his teachings had any actual success in your personal spiritual develpment that you believe beyond a doubt is credible?

Finally if he is not a fraud, he has so many different books out, is there any sequence that they should ideally be read in or at least an ideal place to begin reading his material to judge for myself its merits?

--Soulfire