Hey Everybody,
I believe God exists. Even though I cannot necessarily show "scientific" proof.
What are your thoughts on this? What is your best argument for the existence of a higher being?
Thanks,
Hilary
My idea of God is "the all"...that which incorporates everything...infinity. I call this God once I got past all of the "big man sitting on throne" stuff I was fed as a child :)
Quote from: HilaryTalrechi on January 09, 2011, 15:03:20
I believe God exists. Even though I cannot necessarily show "scientific" proof.
Define "God" for you, please.
Quote from: HilaryTalrechi on January 09, 2011, 15:03:20
What is your best argument for the existence of a higher being?
Taking this literally, I think a lot of "higher beings" exist. Many reports of the astral, mental and higher spiritual worlds hint to that. The common source, which for me is a giant consciousness computer (evolving form a raw form of consciousness to ever finer levels), can be called God if you like so. But I don't.
God is such a misused and worn-out term nowadays. And it is fully occupied by the Monotheist Western religions, so that many people seem to align it with what moondreamer described in his post.
Quote from: VolgerleTaking this literally, I think a lot of "higher beings" exist. Many reports of the astral, mental and higher spiritual worlds hint to that. The common source, which for me is a giant consciousness computer (evolving form a raw form of consciousness to ever finer levels), can be called God if you like so. But I don't.
God is such a misused and worn-out term nowadays. And it is fully occupied by the Monotheist Western religions,
That's pretty much how I feel...
Everybody has interesting answers.
Quote from: HilaryTalrechi on January 09, 2011, 15:03:20
Hey Everybody,
I believe God exists. Even though I cannot necessarily show "scientific" proof.
What are your thoughts on this? What is your best argument for the existence of a higher being?
Thanks,
Hilary
Since I consider God to be Everything that Is, Was and Will be, and More, I believe the idea of scientific proof is oxymoronic.
Cheers.
______________
which God are you talking about?
I think it is all gods. And I didn't mean I thought there was some giant computer in the sky, I was talking as a whole...like how CF describes it.
their are two Gods i believe they are called mummy and dad
thats what the Spirit World tell me
good luck
love all
Quote from: Naykid on January 09, 2011, 19:49:26
I think it is all gods. And I didn't mean I thought there was some giant computer in the sky, I was talking as a whole...like how CF describes it.
that's also what I meant .. ALL THAT IS .. IS ... THE COMPUTER
it computes itself :wink:
it is not "IN" the sky, it "IS" the sky ... and everything else, including us as incarnated beings on this biophysical dimension
I kind of adopted the Hindu perspective, which seems to be shared in this thread somewhat.
Essentially, I feel that everything is an extension of a higher being. I think essentially everything in existence is meshed together in this way, from the sentient to the non-sentient to the nonliving. The Hindu perspective states that pretty much everything is Brahman, and we are the Atman. The relationship between the two is like us (the Atman) being a drop of water in the ocean (Brahman).
So...yes. I do sort of believe in a God. In fact, it's this belief system that lead me to Universalist Unitarianism.
Quote from: Volgerle on January 13, 2011, 09:10:43
that's also what I meant .. ALL THAT IS .. IS ... THE COMPUTER
it computes itself :wink:
it is not "IN" the sky, it "IS" the sky ... and everything else, including us as incarnated beings on this biophysical dimension
I was saying that I don't believe it's a computer, but an essence or energy that makes up everything. But a giant computer is a great analogy. :-)
Quote from: HilaryTalrechi on January 09, 2011, 15:03:20
Hey Everybody,
I believe God exists. Even though I cannot necessarily show "scientific" proof.
What are your thoughts on this? What is your best argument for the existence of a higher being?
Thanks,
Hilary
Can something be created by nothing? Chance explains the complexities of various sorts in the Universe? Who knows? :-)
Paul
Quote from: View578 on January 15, 2011, 20:21:13
Can something be created by nothing?
No.
Quote from: View578 on January 15, 2011, 20:21:13
Chance explains the complexities of various sorts in the Universe?
No.
Quote from: View578 on January 15, 2011, 20:21:13
Can something be created by nothing?
By my understanding, it is in fact possible when one looks into Virtual Particles (http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=are-virtual-particles-rea) in Quantum Mechanics, which borrow energy from potential energy that is going to happen. Wikipedia has an interesting summary (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtual_particle) that goes into details. Granted, it doesn't solve the whole question of "Well, what caused that to happen?", and probably never will. No matter how many breakthroughs or thought experiments progress, we will never be entirely sure either way, from an academic standpoint. When it comes to Creation (or just plain old Happening), I think it's really just an issue of personal belief. Is it fascinating? Oh yes. But I think too many people spend too much time wringing each other's necks about something that can't really be experienced or observed.
Quote from: View578 on January 15, 2011, 20:21:13
Can something be created by nothing?
for something to be called something (refering to nothing) has to be something!
everything is the same
as the saying goes what is below is as above
meaning all the same
so in my opinion yes
good luck
love all
Quote from: DeadSuperHero on January 16, 2011, 00:05:30
By my understanding, it is in fact possible when one looks into Virtual Particles (http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=are-virtual-particles-rea) in Quantum Mechanics, which borrow energy from potential energy that is going to happen. Wikipedia has an interesting summary (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtual_particle) that goes into details. Granted, it doesn't solve the whole question of "Well, what caused that to happen?", and probably never will. No matter how many breakthroughs or thought experiments progress, we will never be entirely sure either way, from an academic standpoint. When it comes to Creation (or just plain old Happening), I think it's really just an issue of personal belief. Is it fascinating? Oh yes. But I think too many people spend too much time wringing each other's necks about something that can't really be experienced or observed.
Are you telling me that from an academic standpoint, the future creates portions of the present?
Aside from that, if it does, that part of the present, created from part of the future, was created HOW? By chance, or deliberate somehow?
See, evolution for instance can be taken into consideration, but whether it was intentional or "automatic", (or through chance) is the breaking question. Automatic movement of material forming into extremely complex occurrences - though NO "supernatural" cause seems possible, if you take something such as infinite possibility into consideration...but is the VERY IDEA of infinite possibility nothing more than the human mind trying to make sense of something that doesn't seem to make sense?
This is the kind of stuff that can make certain people bang their heads against a wall, lol.
Quote from: ether on January 16, 2011, 06:18:31
for something to be called something (refering to nothing) has to be something!
everything is the same
as the saying goes what is below is as above
meaning all the same
so in my opinion yes
good luck
love all
I did not refer to nothing as something. :-) The earth is "something". The human body is "something". The sun is "something". First of all, can we all agree that these things exist? lol. If so, ...NOTHING created something? How, if so? Chance? Processes from which nowhere and nothing continued, astoundingly precise and complex? Those are the big questions.
Quote from: View578 on January 16, 2011, 13:29:15
Processes from which nowhere and nothing continued, astoundingly precise and complex?
Exactly! All is perfect, regardless of the infinite number of various human perspectives. There is no such thing as random chaos or accidents. Everything occurs as it is intended. Universe maintains a continuous balance at all times. There is absolutely no exception to this.
Nothing is ever created. Nothing is ever destroyed. There is no such thing as "nothing" or empty space. All exists simultaneously at once. All is Energy. Anything and everything we experience is energy that is formed and reformed. There is no such thing as a "past" or a "future". Those are also nothing more than human concepts. Again, All exists simultaneously at once.
Quote from: kailaurius on January 16, 2011, 15:13:06
Exactly! All is perfect, regardless of the infinite number of various human perspectives. There is no such thing as random chaos or accidents. Everything occurs as it is intended. Universe maintains a continuous balance at all times. There is absolutely no exception to this.
Nothing is ever created. Nothing is ever destroyed. There is no such thing as "nothing" or empty space. All exists simultaneously at once. All is Energy. Anything and everything we experience is energy that is formed and reformed. There is no such thing as a "past" or a "future". Those are also nothing more than human concepts. Again, All exists simultaneously at once.
Wow, so
all that exists, exists. There is no such thing as "out", of
all, because blank space ("nothing", so to put it), exists alongside
all as well, because black space
is something (black space), making it PART of
all.
So if the true illusion is that there is no such thing as nothing, let's look at the VARIOUS ASPECTS of all. :-)
Blank space, amongst things, is obviously of contrast to other "somethings". Do the differences result from deliberate or non-deliberate occurrences?
Meant or not, absolutely complex and precise occurrences take place. Are these the result of something "supernatural", at least to us, or it is
all the result of PHYSICAL occurrences that Science has yet to explain?
Quote from: View578 on January 16, 2011, 16:22:05
Wow, so all that exists, exists. There is no such thing as "out", of all, because blank space ("nothing", so to put it), exists alongside all as well, because black space is something (black space), making it PART of all.
Yes. Every thought, emotion, imagination, event, and every potential out of the infinite number of potentials already exists at this very moment.
There can be no "out" of All that Is because there is nothing else but the All. There can be no outside of anything no more than air can be outside of itself. Everything that we perceive to be outside of us or separate from us is just that, a perception. It is an illusion. We are truly One, no matter how cliche or esoteric that may sound to some.
Energy in it's native state is true reality. It's not until there is a conscious observation that energy is formed into what is being observed. The object or event being formed is then no longer true reality, but is rather nothing more than a prop that is used as experience for the observer who formed it.
When an artist moulds clay into a pot or statue would you say that the clay did not exist until the pot was formed?
Quote from: View578 on January 16, 2011, 16:22:05
Blank space, amongst things, is obviously of contrast to other "somethings". Do the differences result from deliberate or non-deliberate occurrences?
The differences result from various perceptions, whether deliberate or not, based upon beliefs. Objects, being of "matter", or events, which all are nothing more than energy, returns to it's native state when it is no longer being observed.
Quote from: View578 on January 16, 2011, 16:22:05
Meant or not, absolutely complex and precise occurrences take place. Are these the result of something "supernatural", at least to us, or it is all the result of PHYSICAL occurrences that Science has yet to explain?
Yes, absolutely, but the complexities and the mechanics of an end result are irrelevant. The word "supernatural" is to imply something greater than something else. There is nothing throughout all Universe that is lesser or greater than anything else. "Supernatural" is again a human concept, or at the very least a concept that was conceived by humans on this planet. There's nothing supernatural about any occurrences. It's all completely natural no matter how magical and extravagant it may appear to the observer and regardless of whether it can be explained by science or not. The Newtonian laws of physics are limited to the physical reality we currently experience and will never be able to explain anything beyond our physical reality. Non conventional scientists have of course already realised that they have to think outside of the Newtonian way of thinking to get a better grasp of the higher vibratory realms to which the Newtonian laws of physics do not apply.
Quote from: View578 on January 16, 2011, 13:29:15
I did not refer to nothing as something. :-) The earth is "something". The human body is "something". The sun is "something". First of all, can we all agree that these things exist? lol. If so, ...NOTHING created something? How, if so? Chance? Processes from which nowhere and nothing continued, astoundingly precise and complex? Those are the big questions.
you get the idea of it from Kail
however i was assuming you were talking about in this time frame and more importantely this solar system!
Quote from: kailaurius on January 16, 2011, 15:13:06
There is no such thing as a "past" or a "future".
ive had this conversation for along time now with those above (Spirit World) and yes they do know as they do know everything is this time frame that we (people) need to learn, however they teach me how to know.
and i have to disagree with that one some could argue that im wrong but ill leave it at that
good luck
love all
Life has a hierarchical order to it and perhaps that's part of our desire for a belief system in a god and for religions, and also for everything else such as organisations, governments, societies etc.
So if life and the universe follow a hierarchical order then maybe there could be a god or be it a formless collection of some sort of energy at the top.
But then again perhaps the hierarchical order is only inherent to our human makeup and doesn't necessarily mean everything outside of our world environment has to be waterfall model either (meaning there doesn't have to be some sort of CEO of the cosmos). It could surely also work as a matrix where we report to our left, right, top and bottom meaning perhaps we are collectively all god like in some ways, and not something external to our control.
I don't know difficult to answer and I'm not religious nor have experienced anything different during my out of body travels to make me think otherwise.
irrelevant.
Do gods exist? sure they do, just not the "god" humans worship.
Quote from: astraladdict on February 11, 2011, 22:38:22
Do gods exist? sure they do, just not the "god" humans worship.
you got anymore info on that?
good luck
love all
To me personally it doesnt really matter what you call 'God' by definition.
So do Gods exist to me? No. Not what I would consider a 'God'.
I consider each and every one of us a god.
As I believe we all created and are in a constant state of creation... creating this physical reality, changing it, and creating our non-physical presence.
Quote from: Volgerle on January 13, 2011, 09:10:43
that's also what I meant .. ALL THAT IS .. IS ... THE COMPUTER
it computes itself :wink:
it is not "IN" the sky, it "IS" the sky ... and everything else, including us as incarnated beings on this biophysical dimension
You mean SkyNet then??!! :lol:
Quote from: ether on February 12, 2011, 08:53:10
you got anymore info on that?
good luck
love all
Travel around the astral and you'll find out...
Some Bibles describe God not as singular but as plural Gods in book of Genesis
Not some, all. Not all of them translate Elohim as plural, but it is a plural term.
Quote from: astraladdict on February 13, 2011, 11:03:17
Travel around the astral and you'll find out...
my opinion
dont believe what ya seeing are gods
as their are only two
good luck
love all
*claps with one hand*
Quote from: Monk on February 13, 2011, 22:34:14
*claps with one hand*
had to look that up
before i reply what religion r u...going by ya user name i'm assuming buddhist?
good luck
love all
For those who "know" my point in this thread(it's quite obvious), I applaud with one hand.
For the rest. Bah
lol you seriously see what religion people are? amazing, guess which i am...
Quote from: astraladdict on February 13, 2011, 23:46:14
lol you seriously see what religion people are? amazing, guess which i am...
I'd like to know as well, because I'M not even sure
exactly what religion I'm apart of :)
Quote from: astraladdict on February 13, 2011, 23:46:14
lol you seriously see what religion people are? amazing, guess which i am...
lol if one could see what religion one was they would'nt have to guess
and i'm guessing since ya call ya self a young god...all religions...lol...as their are only two Gods him and her i must add both of all religions!
good luck
love all
i've just been informed... for the record those high in the buddhist monks high high i'm talking are now having the belief that Gods do exist and it has been for about one and half years...this belief...God/s exist
i must add for those that understand how the world/s work (especially energy usage), how people think and learn you understand why...they believed this...that takes nothing away from any body who believed this...period
good luck
love all
thanks for informing those who never even told you their beliefs in the first place
Quote from: Monk on February 14, 2011, 01:47:54
thanks for informing those who never even told you their beliefs in the first place
no worries mate :wink:
atleast your one of those that do believe :-)
i sort of figured that their are one or more buddhist monk/s here... as they have a thing of not believing in God/s
good luck
love all
Quote from: ether on February 14, 2011, 01:30:44
i've just been informed... for the record those high in the buddhist monks high high i'm talking are now having the belief that Gods do exist and it has been for about one and half years...this belief...God/s exist
Of course God exists. Do you really think all life on earth in all its splendor just popped out of the ground from some amoeba?? For every software program there had to be a software designer. Life is no different, some intelligent designer had to make a blueprint for life to exist.
Its very strange that most people cant wrap their head around this simple concept.
Unless of course they have a giant hate-on for God, and dont want to see the truth which is basically staring them in the eye
Quote from: Fresco on February 14, 2011, 08:05:21
Of course God exists. Do you really think all life on earth in all its splendor just popped out of the ground from some amoeba?? For every software program there had to be a software designer. Life is no different, some intelligent designer had to make a blueprint for life to exist.
Its very strange that most people cant wrap their head around this simple concept.
Unless of course they have a giant hate-on for God, and dont want to see the truth which is basically staring them in the eye
dont forget this bit...for good reason they didnt believe in Gods...they were programmed that way mostly all because of energy
Quote from: ether on February 14, 2011, 01:30:44
i must add for those that understand how the world/s work (especially energy usage), how people think and learn you understand why...they believed this...that takes nothing away from any body who believed this...period
good luck
love all
What about the possibliity that the christian god is simply a higher being that communicated to certain people, and that those people assumed that it was the one and ONLY god.
You will never truly know...
I know! This God is a sham to me. How about the people who commit murder in this day and age because they heard the voice of God in their heads telling them to kill?
Man, come on! The Christian God is a pure concoction. The whole idea of it incites fear in order to control the masses. The is no God. Maybe this God "existed" in the mind of an individual who had lost the plot and that's how it started. In all fairness, if such individual had been born today, he would probably be put in a mental institution. :-D
Why is it that these prophets or mad men don't question the nature of the voices in their heads? If I heard the voice of God telling me to follow him or burn in hell I'd tell him where to shove it. If anything, the idea of Lucifer is more attractive because at least he has character and is honest because he doesn't hide in fear of the lord like the others. :roll:
Quote from: Summerlander on February 15, 2011, 05:15:36
I know! This God is a sham to me. How about the people who commit murder in this day and age because they heard the voice of God in their heads telling them to kill?
Man, come on! The Christian God is a pure concoction. The whole idea of it incites fear in order to control the masses. The is no God. Maybe this God "existed" in the mind of an individual who had lost the plot and that's how it started. In all fairness, if such individual had been born today, he would probably be put in a mental institution. :-D
Why is it that these prophets or mad men don't question the nature of the voices in their heads? If I heard the voice of God telling me to follow him or burn in hell I'd tell him where to shove it. If anything, the idea of Lucifer is more attractive because at least he has character and is honest because he doesn't hide in fear of the lord like the others. :roll:
obviously you dont understand how and or why the death cycle exist...it's all controlled 100% the death cycle
these people that you say lost the plot do you understand about the world's energy usage?...obviously not...being programmed in a particular way from a particular area does'nt mean you lost the plot...yeah it looks like that...but theirs a thing called energy as you now know :wink:
whats wrong with mental institutions...i know a bit about that industrie...done alot of research the psychiatrist know even less than i, although some may know a little bit more than i give them credit for (hopefully) :roll:, the cause and effect of all things some call it the samsara wheel this includes mental illness, it's about to change for the better of all, you may know this as many parts have already been touched on...by human
and ya last paragraph :roll:
obviously you know nothing about programming
who said they hide in fear of the lord...but you probably think differently now about that statement buy now as you know their is a cause and effect of all things the samsara wheel
good luck genius
love all
I think there are too many unaddressed assumptions, all from very subjective viewpoints that can make a discussion like this somewhat futile - digressing into various pockets here and there.
Whether our approach is from a theological, spiritual, or impartial standpoint, my question would be 'why' and not 'if' (i.e.: why do we have this need to believe in a god/s).
There is something within our sociological make-up that requires us to always think in a ranked or hierarchical structure, which permeates in almost every institution that we can think of.
I'm guessing society just cannot operate within a flat structure and would be deemed as absolute chaos - Hence why we have religions, governments, work environments, schooling, families etc all following this authoritarian approach top down approach.
Ironically I have found this inherent hierarchical condition being the hardest obstacle towards achieving my Out of Body explorations. It's something that we just accept and never question.
Quote from: Alex-Anderson on February 15, 2011, 06:40:05
Whether our approach is from a theological, spiritual, or impartial standpoint, my question would be 'why' and not 'if' (i.e.: why do we have this need to believe in a god/s).
i believe (know) that the universe was created by God/s everything in it
and at our best or close to it we are to become like a god a godhead but we will never become a God!!!...just like you can never become your parents in this life!!! same goes never can be God/s
god-like... yes... but not a God
if your employed by a business you would not expect to be able to take controll/part of it if you do not believe in it...agree
same goes with what is happening on earth soon with the minipulation of the weather (proven), death cycle (proven), disease (proven) and anything that effects our lives, other areas have been "proven" as well, all through the minipulation of the elements, not HAARP or any crap like that thats a hoax...i must add these governments have been trying to get controll of this for years now but they donot have the abilities to take controll or operate it (proven) countless times ...idiots...i even thought it might happen for them to participate only, but i was young in this knowledge in knowing how it all works
so thats why ya believe in God/s
i must add if ya dont believe ya dont get to play with the minipulation of the elements which takes part soon system/s are being built so as many people can participate ...billions of people if needed
if ya asking how to participate think about this
live the bases of the meaning of life which is to ""live for other people and to love all""
become this
live this
the Spirit World and some living :| decide who gets to to help with this process of the minipulation of all things
dont forget all thoughts of everyone are recorded they above see all thoughts...no hiding from them
best behaviour required...if ya want to play that is...lots of money in it
good luck
love all
There's absolutely no proof that the biblical god exists. No one can claim to know for sure. I do know this though: a lot of individuals have been conditioned to believe in certain lies since they were born and it can be hard to let go of such concepts as adults - which is understandable.
Death is just somthing that occurs naturally and for all we know, it really is the end.
By the way, I obviously don't understand many of the things you talk about so why don't you enlighten me. What is this "programming" and "energy" you speak of? I'm very much a man of science so fire away on this "energy".
ps. I'm not a genius and have never concretely claimed to know anything unlike some. I will maintain that the idea of God as a judgemental human-like entity sounds ridiculous though.
Depends what plane ya can AP to
to determine the God/s thing
and for the rest of it... you dont deserve this knowledge/wisdom
because you spoke ill of areas! :wink:
good luck
love all
Quote from: Summerlander on February 15, 2011, 09:29:08
I will maintain that the idea of God as a judgemental human-like entity sounds ridiculous though.
I completely agree. I think most of these responses imply a prejudice doctrine of some sort or another that contradicts the very nature of what is initially trying to be outlined by the suggestion of a god.
Quote from: ether on February 15, 2011, 09:44:39
Depends what plane ya can AP to
to determine the God/s thing
and for the rest of it... you dont deserve this knowledge/wisdom
because you spoke ill of areas! :wink:
good luck
love all
This is the dangerous thing about OBE's/AP's etc - the 'US' and 'THEM' approach. I have began to somewhat loath the 'superior' angle that some people seem to personify by their experiences.
I do not think an experience should only be measurable or meaningful by some 'predefined' ladder that one has to climb or experience. You only find what you wish or need to search for.
Quote from: ether on February 15, 2011, 09:44:39
Depends what plane ya can AP to
to determine the God/s thing
and for the rest of it... you dont deserve this knowledge/wisdom
because you spoke ill of areas! :wink:
good luck
love all
This is the dangerous thing about OBE's/AP's etc - the 'US' and 'THEM' approach. I have began to somewhat loath the 'superior' angle that some people seem to personify by their experiences.
I do not think an experience should only be measurable or meaningful by some 'predefined' ladder that one has to climb or experience. You only find what you wish or need to search for.
Quote from: Summerlander on February 15, 2011, 09:29:08
Death is just somthing that occurs naturally and for all we know, it really is the end.
By the way, I obviously don't understand many of the things you talk about so why don't you enlighten me. What is this "programming" and "energy" you speak of? I'm very much a man of science so fire away on this "energy"
Are you sure you're in the right forum?? :?
Absolutely Alex. In fact I'd also like to say that this stuff about different planes that only some can project to and others can't sounds like hooey to me. I have been projecting since 2008 and I feel that whether the experience is pleasant or terrifying, it all happens in the realm of thoughts or the metaphysical (if it's not a here-now physical reality projection).
We humans tend to catagorise everything when in fact this is only an anthropological attribute. It all depends on your state of mind. I have experienced hellish world constructs as well as summerland-like ones - the latter having such an impact on me that my name had to be "Summerlander"!LOL!
But I won't reject the possibility that serotonin had something to do with the intense feeling that such experiences conveyed.
I have also experienced states where I temporarily lost all logic and memory whilst observing imagery that should have made sense to me if I was in the normal state of consciousness but it didn't. I felt extremely peaceful in that "emptiness" of mind and when I finally came to I was amazed at how quickly the mind can forget, say, what an apple is and quickly it can switch back and remember.
What I personally got from this is that all concepts we subscribe to are illusions (even the notion of god) and the mind in its pure form is somewhat empty.
By the way, you will find my journal in astral viewers. I'm a mod there and you are all welcome to join. We as a staff tend to have a more pragmatic approach when it comes to these discussions and we discard New Age belief systems as they are pure conjecture. There no liwer or higher astrals.
Quote from: Fresco on February 15, 2011, 10:07:34
Are you sure you're in the right forum?? :?
He's right, Fresco.
For all we believe about astral projection and everything related to it... we humans don't really KNOW what happens when our physical bodies die.
For all we know, it really could be the end. We *BELIEVE* it's not, and some of us strongly believe this, but ultimately we don't *know*. :)
Quote from: Alex-Anderson on February 15, 2011, 10:02:33
This is the dangerous thing about OBE's/AP's etc - the 'US' and 'THEM' approach. I have began to somewhat loath the 'superior' angle that some people seem to personify by their experiences.
I do not think an experience should only be measurable or meaningful by some 'predefined' ladder that one has to climb or experience. You only find what you wish or need to search for.
nothing dangerous for some
i dont tell of "a" experience and or theory
only what is fact
otherwise i'll loose my job
you would'nt want that ...would ya... :wink:
good luck
love all
Quote from: Xanth on February 15, 2011, 10:14:31
He's right, Fresco.
For all we believe about astral projection and everything related to it... we humans don't really KNOW what happens when our physical bodies die.
For all we know, it really could be the end. We *BELIEVE* it's not, and some of us strongly believe this, but ultimately we don't *know*. :)
I dont see it that way. When it comes to death or unconsiousness, death itself IS timeless. 3 seconds can be the same as billions and billions of years.
What about Oblivion? If one is purely materialistic then they have to accept the viewpoint that we were technically 'dead' for a long(infinite) period of 'time' before we were born, and it will be the same process of life and death all over again after our physical body 'dies'. But that's my viewpoint anyways it seems pretty obvious to me what happens after we die. :-D
Oblivion doesnt last long does it? :evil:
Oh and to the main discussion.. Why does it matter if a God exists or not? ^ ^
Quote from: Xanth on February 15, 2011, 10:14:31
He's right, Fresco.
For all we believe about astral projection and everything related to it... we humans don't really KNOW what happens when our physical bodies die.
For all we know, it really could be the end. We *BELIEVE* it's not, and some of us strongly believe this, but ultimately we don't *know*. :)
I guess we dont know anything for sure, but I think there's enough evidence now to strongly believe we dont die
Sure, as a projector myself I believe there is an afterlife. Especially when through certain experiences I obtained info from dead people and this info checked out. I can only "prove" this to myself though because the sceptic will say that I'm either lying or it was an amazing coincidence.
But just because there is an afterlife, it doesn't mean that a god exists also...
I even opened a topic on AVers entitled there is an afterlife but I was careful to not claim to know for sure. My argument was that the mind is always active and it is difficult to not think of anything, so, oblivion doesn't last as consciousness has a tendency to rise to the surface and experience. I think the emptiness allows room for ideas or something like that...
Anyway, this is about whether god exists and not the afterlife. Personally I wouldn't even mix OOBEs with religion as I think that the metaphysical realm is a frequency which is part of the physical but not yet detected by science - possibly something existent beyond the ultrasonic frequency that our pineals tap into. After all, piezoelectric calcite crystals were found in this elusive gland and telecommunication companies are investing on this type of research in order to learn more.
I agree, that just because in the case *IF* there is an afterlife, it doesnt 'prove' of a deity. Because everything that exists(Supernatural or not) is already part of the natural order of things from a Meta-physical Naturalist Viewpoint. :wink:
Quote from: Summerlander on February 15, 2011, 10:13:22
Absolutely Alex. In fact I'd also like to say that this stuff about different planes that only some can project to and others can't sounds like hooey to me. I have been projecting since 2008 and I feel that whether the experience is pleasant or terrifying, it all happens in the realm of thoughts or the metaphysical (if it's not a here-now physical reality projection).
Summerlander - completely agree with you - (havent quoted your whole response but nicely stated).
Yes, Alex and Rican, in fact you might even flip the coin and say that the physical is a dreamworld lower on vibrations and more settle but made of the same stuff nonetheless.
In dreams, we often find that when we look at something, look away and look back, that something is different or the scenery has somehow changed...as though observation had something to do with it!!
In the physical, the same thing happens but on a subatomic level where probabilities collapse - so tiny that it goes unnoticed and is seemingly irrelevant to the macrocosm. The 'macro-level' of the dreamworld behaves like the quantum level of the physical world. The theory goes that it is a frequency that our consciousness can ride on where the 'stuff' it's made of vibrates more violently.
I've also made an important observation after having projected to the metaphysical...everything is made of thought, and I mean everything! Even the sense of space or distance. That is a thought too and irrelevant to physical realm distance. I think of astral projections as "quantum leaps" of consciousness where we literally go AWOL from this reality temporarily. What is perceived to be a 2D image like a painting in the "astral plane" can be explored as a 3D construct if one decides to plunge into it.
But does it end there? No. I am also suspecting that astral projection opens up the doors of telepathy and precognition, this based on experience - but I won't claim anything - just keep exploring from a fresh perspective free of preconceived ideas. And even if OOBEs enable ESP, it still doesn't mean that there is a God behind it! LOL!
Quote from: Killa Rican on February 15, 2011, 11:10:06
I agree, that just because in the case *IF* there is an afterlife, it doesnt 'prove' of a deity
It doesnt 'disprove' it either though
Quote from: Fresco on February 15, 2011, 11:51:53
It doesnt 'disprove' it either though
I understand the mindset your coming from that "If a tree falls in a forest and nobody is around to hear it does it make a sound?", But even so there is still no ground to assume there is a God in the first place. You know the argument "Absence of evidence is not Evidence of absence" and such.
The Word 'God' itself has no meaning to me. The way i see it is, Even if Science one day demonstrates that a God did NOT create the universe(Like what Hawking is attempting), then whatever did 'start' the universe people will call THAT 'God' anyways.
I personally think we are the "deities" who had infinite perception prior to being born. Once born, this state of mind was narrowed down to a finite point. This would explain why certain psychedelics like psilocybin can give us the epiphany experience or the sensation that we already know something about existence.
I also think your Kepple was on the right track. We as a consciousness created everything.
In Hinduism, there are three main aspects of god - the trimurti:
Shiva - Destroyer
Vishnu - Preserver
Brahma - Creator
They all exist within Brahman, the infinite or the canvas of existence. The three deities only represent forces of nature to me and are not "blue sentient beings" as they are generally depicted.