Feelings, here and now, and the body ....

[Rastus]

Your only limitations are self imposed.  Unlearn what you've been taught, and remember what you "know".  Time is an illusion, and the "real world" isn't, it is in fact the reflection.

That's pretty deep, even for me on a Sunday morning!

[Jonas K strand]

thank you very much denmark!

thats really interesting. so nice to hear that people find this observation of sensations to be important!

what is the differece between the physical body and the energybody due to your research? i mean, isnt it just different ways of looking at the same thing? only that some sensations are subtle and some are gross? and the gross is subtle, and the subtle is gross. just different planes of the same thing? the materia.

tack! /jonas

[Aileron]

kenneth, happy to know you are coming to realize the keen existential awareness of life and all that is.
This is very important that you came to these conclusions, so long as you also realize that it will not end there. You must keep recycling and engineering so to speak, a new you, a new perception and a new view every moment, every day, every year, every life and so forth.

The result of our acceptance with the physical, the metaphysical and the emotional and mental are just steps within another and wider tunnel.

To realize the awareness of you and who you are, is a great thing. It helps keeps us focused on any thing happening, whether the mundane or the exponentially limitless events which occur.
Dont lose sight of that, but also dont limit yourself to just that one perception. It may be a great thing, but it does not stop evolving, for that is one of many purposes.

[daem0n]

i'll bet everything that you read "the power of now" by eckhart tolle, am i right

glad you made it, now you have to ground yourself even more so this state will become normal (at least that's what i am doing, eckhm trying to do),

what we are running from is reality, and what we search for are our hopes and projections, let's embrace our lifes instead [], there is no white light, only warmth and peace

[Naiad780]

Thanks, Kenneth!  This was very helpful.  It will take awhile to digest.

[Kenneth]

Hi all!

Thank you very much for the kind replies - it is VERY nice to know, that I am not completely gone off the deep end ... yet *LOL* [].

I am still so much human [)], that I too get affected by knowing, that others can use the different bits and pieces I have collected here and there []. It means a lot to me, so THANKS!

Rastus: Yes, you are right - that IS very deep for a sunday morning, but none the less true []

Jonas: About the physical body versus the Inner body (energy body). Yes and No [] ... If I have been working hard in the garden all day long, then it is my physical body that's hurting at night [B)]... On the other hand, if I get depressed or very sad, it is in my INNER BODY I feel it.

Another example to show the difference could be, if you have had a talk with someone, where you REALLY have gone through some heavy emotions, then you can actually feel totally drained in your "Inner body" afterwards - even if you have been sitting still and done nothing but talking []. (It feels like it's your physical body, but there is a difference i think).

The "Inner body" must also contain the diffence between feeling UpBeat or Drained at a sports-event, even if you have gotten your sleep like you should, and your physical body is totally in shape ?!? ....

On the other hand - yes, they are essentially the same, much the same way as a Human is a "single" unit, and can't be divided into "just" a heart, brain, body, soul etc.

I just hope, that by trying to find a "difference" in my self, (even if very subtle), that I can somehow use it for something specific, or that it gives me a greater depth of understanding of my self.

Daem0n: Yes, I have read it - actually several times now, and it continues to inspire and helps me "drive" my self forward. Another great book i have read (and keep reading[]), that focusses more on the Feelings side of things is Brandon Bays "The Journey". This book explains the only "technique" i have seen so far, that actually USES "bad" feelings as the entry into your very core. (That is right up my alley, that your biggest problem is often your greatest oppertunity []).

And yes - I am also continuing to try [] ... And I keep falling into the "trap", that this is a "Do this and that, and THEN you are there [B)] ....kind of thingy" ... Okay, I will just have to repeat that pattern (thinking that) until I actually discovers it for what it is - just another illusion [}:)] .... And I to keep running into my "Body of Pain" (Smertelegemet), so it is STILL a continuing dance, where sometimes I step on my own toes, or trip over my own legs [].

Aileron: Yup - that part with continuing the effort IS one of my main issues right now []... I really would like for it to be "Do this, and this, and THEN you are there" [] .... On the other hand - what ever would I be doing after that, if I ever GOT to that point ?  *LOL* ... No challenges, no problems, no issues I can use to "reflect" my self against ? ... Actually, I am not sure what i want *LOL* ... [:O]

Naiad780: Thank you very much Naiad for your thanks and acknowledgement [:I] ... It litteraly means the world to me, that a little bit of me can make even a small difference in another human, being able to "touch" another human, so it is in reality me that are thanking you []. Please do not hesitate to contact me, if there are anything you have doubts about, or to share any of your experiences - good or bad - believe me, they DO mean something!! ... []


Kind regards from Denmark,

[daem0n]

what you will be doing when you are there:
the same what you do now, only enjoying yourself, with freedom of choice to what you want to feel, it doesn't mean that you stop feeling altogether
thx for the book i'll check it out
now my books:
as mentioned the power of now by eckhart tolle
the inward revolution by deborah benstead and storm constantine
awakening by anthony de molle
kybalion by three initiates (helps to pit it in bigger picture)
corpus hermetica by hermes trismegistus (even bigger picture, read at the end, don't worry about overdevotion, if you replace god with essence or the all it will be clearer, it is hard lecture)
if it doesn't suit you, don't bother with it
edit: forgot to mention, awakening is NOT the enlightment, it is only one of the steps to it, enlightment needs much more (i'm yet to know what ...[])

[jilola]

Here are the points of the Finnish jury: Denmark, twelve points.

Yep, yoou have grasped the idea known as non-attachement and mindful being. Now stop thining about it as that will (got the experience, haven't printed the T-shirt yet) drag your experience down.

The obeservation of your feelings and reactions to them is what would change the world unlike anything ever before. I think you might benefit from reading about mindfullness meditation aka vipassana  http://www.buddhanet.net/insight.htm

When you realize the "I" you usually take for being you is only an onion  resulting from the lifetime of imprinting by others and outside games you have a mile lead on most of humanity.
Peeling back the layers you will eventually realize there is no-one behind them. You are not anything within your physical manifestation. You are not anything working through a physical manifestation. You are everything reflected in a physical manifestation.
As you are, you are everything enacted from a singular perspective yet not separate from any other perspective. Ie. you are everything in a manner unique to you.

Excuse the repetition; I feel it's a necessary reminder.

2cents & L&L
Jouni

[Jonas K strand]

goodevening denmark!

i would like to share some thoughts about this count to ten and
breath deeply technique.

isnt it quite the same as saying - do something totaly different
and you get out of the anger.

i mean, counting to ten has nothing to do with the state of mind youre in, so, you just switch focus to something else, and also to breath deeply has nothing to do with the anger itself. the breath has very much to do with the anger if it is not forced into something it
is not at the moment though. i just cant see how this technique has  to do with here and now when it starts with the very running away from it?

wonderful show! thank you! 12 points... 12 points from sweden

/jonas

[Kenneth]

Hi Jilola and Jonas,

Thank you very much for all the kind words and the Score *LOL* ... I actually feel like a participant in the European Song Contest []

Jonas, what this little exercise does is a grounding. It breaks the Thought<->Emotion connection, by forcing the Mind to Count, and at the same time moving the focus to the body, through the simple and known act of breathing. (This moving the focus to the body actually has the underlying effect of moving YOU from the past, that the anger keeps you in, and into the NOW, as the BODY is always in the HERE AND NOW.

When you are in a situation that requires you to use this technique, you normally don't have the time or ressources to actually think on what you should be thinking about, so it is the simplicity of the technique that makes it powerfull.

The focus of your mind IS exactly the point here - that your focus and your awareness are totally enveloped IN the feeling. Anything other than a very, very simple mind-act will NOT be understood, because you normally are so involved in the feeling. Once your focus and awareness is switched OUT of the feeling (Normally by the count of two), the goal is actually accomplished - and then further counting is more like a "stabilizer" than anything else.

I just added another angle to this "picture" as a reply to another post, that tries to explain the inner (more mechanical) workings of what it is, that we ACTUALLY fight with in ourselfes.

I hope, that it too will be of help - it has helped me get my thoughts clear about this.

http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=14115

Many kind regards,

[Kenneth]

Just thought I would do a little adverticing for a new text in the Files-forum, that has recently been put there.

http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/file_library.asp?showmethefile=91&thatcat=14&thiscat=E%2DBooks

(The Enchanted World).

That text is (IMO) lacks a little in the "how to" department, but it gives some VERY good pointers as to HOW physical our inner workings when talking feelings, states of minds etc.

It gave me the "missing link", in the simple statement, that feelings (and blocks) are nothing more than energy - and that there ARE specific tools to work exactly with energy inside.

Is a little tired right now, but I have discovered a lot of new details in "my" inner picture, that I look forward to share with you all, in the hope that I will get new pointers too, and that you perhaps can use it too []

Cheers from Denmark,

[Kenneth]

Hello everybody,

Just thought I would share my recent discoveries about my self and the world I live in, in the hope, that there are others that can use it, or have some pointers to something I am blind about []

A couple of years ago, I was very active here on this forum, and searched for "my way" of astral travel and enlightenment. Books, posts, different forums, even a seminar - and I gained a lot of knowledge, and a little bit of wisdom along the way.

The main focus for me at the time was, How do i "get away" from the boring, depressing everyday my life was (and still is *S*) ? .... How do I get away from the Pain, the humiliation, the stress, and above all, the everlasting routine everything had become etc. etc. ?

A little of the same I see in many of these postings, there are a wish or a yearning for something "bigger", something like "There was a blinding light, music like I never heard it before, and suddenly I was a God" ... (Okay, I excaterated that one a little bit, but essentially that was what I wanted in my "undefined dream world" []).

My point being though, that today I feel like we actually waste some very precious moments in our life HERE AND NOW, by being present in a "perfect future dream-world" (or something like that), instead of here and now ...

What if, the very thing we are "running from", contains in its core the very "thing" we are searching for ? ....

What is it, we actually "project" into the perfect future we envision ?

And what is it, we are searching for anyway ? ... and "running away from" ? ...

Well, I am a systems-developer by trade, and the main approach for me, when faced with a "grey area" like this, is to split it to atoms using a range of diffent techniques - but most of all, using the childs ability to keep questioning and observing without judging and categorizing, and getting astonished by every twist and turn along the way to understanding!

So that's what I did with myself - I started "questioning" every feeling, started questioning every thought, I even started questioning the very consciusnes point from WHERE I stated my questions!

The answers I got (If you can call them answers, it was not like a voice booming the correct answer to me *LOL*) ... was just another pussle, another grey area, another thought and emotion - and I ended up in maze of my mind (my emotions and my thoughts) .... I was (to quote a line from a famous song) "starting to go slightly mad" [] (And if you don't remember Queen, you are missing something in your life [])

Okay - so what am I doing wrong ? ... what is it I keep missing here ? ... Why don't I see the picture clearly ? ....
(And the answer was actually the acceptance and absorbtion of the feeling itself, that these questions came from, but more on that later [])

Well, the first (and most important thing) is, that the answer is NOT outside of yourself. You can find inspiration, thoughts, pointers etc. etc., but YOU CAN NOT FIND THE ANSWER IN ANY OF THEESE THINGS OUTSIDE OF YOUR SELF - YOU CAN ONLY FIND TEMPORARY RELEASE, THAT IN ITSELF TURNS TO "PAIN" LATER !! ... (Pain being a "general" word describing the pain and lust within us - like an addict of sorts needing the next "fix", and never really finding peace).

Well, I started looking for Common things in "my reality" [8D]... (for lack of a better word[])

- I knew, that I could "be aware" of my body. (Or more correctly, both my physical body, and my "energy body").

- I also knew, that I could "be aware" of my thoughts. (An example of this is, that I could "keep my thoughts quiet").

- I also knew, that I could be aware of my feelings, insted of BEING my feelings!
(THAT is actually a very funny experience - to observe yourself being totally mad or whatever feeling there is!). There is also the not so pleasent part in this, as I discovered during a depression / stres period, being able to sort of feel yourself inside a black, sticky something - and NOT being able to "come out of this funk", compared to when you are ie. happy.

But the question still remained - where is "the Key-part" of this picture ? ....

Well, THAT took me about 3 years to find, the reason being that it actually is so simple, that I completely overlooked it!! .... (This is precisely the same situation as when you are searching your home for your glases, only to find, that you are wearing them [8D])

So the keypart for me is, that IF I CAN BE AWARE of something inside of myself, then that "part" is only a layer of me, and not the "something" I am searching for.

So one of the questions for me (and you) is, how "small" can you make "yourself" - how many layers inside of you can you be aware of, and accept as being a part of you, but no more part of you than ie. a sweater, that you can change to another one if YOU want to? .. Are you a person, that defines yourself through ie. your clothes, or have you discovered, that clothes are nice, and can look good - but they are NOT you ? []

Before, when I got angry or sad (and my thoughts would run wild), I would fight that emotion<->thought thingy, trying desperately to "run away" from it - hiding myself from it, by doing something i hoped would get me in a good mood again... Well, duhhh!! ... doesn't work, and it only took me a better part of my whole life to find THAT little bit of information [!] ...

(How many times have we not heard "It's not so bad, now you just blow your nose, and be happy". NOT meaning, that offcource you should comfort someone who is in pain, but (imho) it is only prolonging the pain to "play along" with it, or covering up the pain to try to "move" the other person before the "pain" is absorbed. In my experience, a "normal" feeling lasts about 8-10 seconds, and then it is gone. It is only if we "get stuck" in the feeling (forget to be present in the feeling), that it lasts longer).

Now, I try to do the opposite, meaning i "become" the part in me, that experiences, and then I journey through the emotion with the knowledge that I can't fight it, I can't run away from it, I can't hide from it - but I can observe it, and IF I keep observe it, it can't hurt me one bit! ...

(Actually, the "trick" most of us learned when we were small, and VERY angry about something -  "try to breath deeply, and count to ten" IS in it's core a "grounding" bodily trick, that prevents us from being dragged along this emotion, and keeps us (meaning our awareness, prescense and contiousnes) in the HERE AND NOW [)])

I can actually be aware of it so much now, that in the end, it just sort of becomes transparent, and sort of looses it's grip - or more correctly I think, I stop seing my self as that feeling, the same way as with the clothes []. Nice feelings and "rushes" ARE nice, but they are no longer a quest in them self ... Bad feelings are still "bad", but more like a sour lemonade on a hot summers day, they are not "dangerous" (they can become dangerous if you identify with them - ie. letting the feeling "get the better of you", and drag you along for the ride), so I acknowledge them, and actually try to get to know them a little better, sort of like "feeling" their energy, instead of "running away" from them.

The emotions and thoughts change all the time in me ... Well, I LET THEM !! .... I try to associate my self with the part in me, that experience...

For me it is like deliberately going THROUGH an emotion or thought, rather than "getting over" an emotion, or suppressing a thought... That "observing" and "being aware" typically triggers another thought / feeling, that I have to be aware of (and observe), and so on .... until, in the end, the thoughts and emotions slowly stops, becoming more and more "powerless", more and more like a freighttrain slowly stopping at the station.

If you feel like, "there are no more thoughts inside, and no more feelings - am I there yet?" ... you are not - it is just another (typically old) thought/feeling thingy, that you are "inside" of, looking through out on the world. (It has typically been there for so long, that you THINK it is you - don't think or judge, just feel and observe without drawing conclusions). In these situations i try to feel and be aware, where I observe from (!) instead of being aware of what i observed ....

Once the question "Am I there yet" becomes obsolete - then, YES!! ... YOU are "there" [] ....


So, to sum it all up, this is the tools that I use now:

- I use the "feeling" of my body to ground my self, when facing a situation in life, that normally would have "dragged me along". (Sort of my "emergency reaction" now for the VERY difficult situations in my life [B)]. Use the principle in the energy-technique Bruce teaches, and sort of focus your awarenes and precense in the feel of your body, instead of letting yourself being "dragged along" by some emotions and thoughts, into an unknown future, or a "familiar" past. Stay present in the HERE AND NOW ... Or use the "Breath deeply, and count to ten" technique []

- Try to associate yourself with the ever present, and non-judging observer in yourself, instead of associating yourself with your EGO, that always judges, always categorizes etc. etc. (Actually, observing your ego IS really funny after a little while!!)

- Being totally present HERE AND NOW(as in a situation when you are doing something new, difficult and very interesting, you normally are totally present, associated totally with what you are doing). This opposed to when you "zone out" in front of the tele, or someone talks to you, and you suddenly find you were at a totally different place ... AND(!)

- Being aware(!) .... along with being present, the trick is also to be aware that you are present(!) .... (Like when you are zoning out in front of the tele, then be aware that you are zoning out, instead of floating aimlesly with a thought or an emotion... (This is actually a very difficult thing to do - being able to being aware that your thougths are floating, without "tensing up" in the mind. Sort of like observing your breating, without changing your breating pattern!!)

After a while, this becomes sort of like a "game" with yourself, with your emotions and thoughts, that can be really entertaining, and occupy much of your earlier "boring" times, like when you wait in a line, or when someone does something stupid on the free-way... (Instead of associating yourself with that feeling and those thoughts, just observe them, and be aware of them ....Be aware of their ability to "drag" you along with them ....)

The "game" SLOWLY becomes your life, until you ARE the "game", and everything IN your life IS a game !!! [] ...

"So - can I still be depressed, or sad, or feeling like I am uncomplete, like I am on a "quest" with the answer just around the NEXT corner ??" .... Yup - offcourse you can!! ... You have every right in the world to feel that way !! .... NO ONE IS GOING TO DENY YOU THE RIGHT TO YOUR OWN PAIN, IF YOU REALLY WANT YOUR INNER PAIN THAT BAD !! .....

If you don't want it clouding your every day, just observe it, look around it, dive through it, eat it, breath it (And be aware that your are doing this!) - feel and accept the feelings and thoughts with your whole being - and find, that in its very core is peace []
(If you choose to "speak your pain", be aware the difference between speaking FROM the pain (while being the pain, energizing the pain), or speaking ABOUT the pain (while observing the pain, sort of turning led into gold - or unconciusness into conciusness!)

If you are thinking or "arguing" with yourself right now - sort of like "judging" this text, categorizing this text, you are being dragged along by your mind ... try just to observe that, and observe (feel inside your body) what this text actually does to you!)


One of the things I am learning is distinquishing ME (my life), from the waves that the situations in my life are creating (my lifes situation). A good picture for this, is to see yourself as a wast ocean - if you only associate yourself with the surface of that ocean, life IS a rollercoaster of emotions, thoughts, pain and lust, with some very short and far spread moments of inner peace, that we truly treasure as lifes "Golden moments". If you associate yourself with the whole of the ocean, life is BEING, with some occational wrinkles on the surface that sort of "spice it up" a bit []

And above all - remember, that this is NOT an "Either it is, or it's not" thingy... It's a slow dance with life, until you discover you are actually dancing with yourself, so why not bring some laughter and game into this, (like the fear from a rollercoaster ride, compared to the fear from a nightmare - it's the place you feel it from, that gives the "flavour" to the feeling - NOT the feeling itself...)

Pheuu - what a marathon [] ... I hope, that you can use it, or at least you have gotten a half an hour of entertainment and interesting thoughts on a subject, that truly means life to us all [)]


Cheers from Denmark!