The Astral Pulse

So here I am now thinking about what the point might be for those who have practiced and attained a consistent level in their ability to project their conscious F1 awareness into the Invisible Realm (F2, F3 and F4)
This got me thinking about F2 + F4 and that this combination would be equal to an additional 'land' within the vast expanse of F3 – and what this would have to do in relation to F1.

According to my own understanding, as well as many others, there is more to travelling to the Invisible Realm than to sight see and muck about and generally have fun.

It is also about purpose – and by that I mean from the holistic point of view where the four main 'sections' of our collective consciousness (using Frank K's model) are seen as one whole consciousness, and therefore down to the actual purpose of that one consciousness.
This implies an intelligent reason for the actual existence and development of that consciousness, and is inclusive of all aspects of consciousness.
Obviously based on eyewitness accounts of this realm, it is so vast as to appear limitless and eternal and thus is conceivably able to entertain the tourist Astral Projectionist forever.

However, it seems to me that this cannot be its only function, as it would appear from an awareness outside this Realm, that the Consciousness which encloses the totality of that Realm is quiet happily entertaining itself with it's unlimited supply of distractions, and possibilities and has no wish or desire to break free from its illusion of what it collectively sees itself to be.

With the aspect of the witnesses who traverse from F1 to F3 and bring back their stories, these stories are reduced to concepts understandable to those in F1, and there does not seem to be overall reason or purpose or agreement in the stories brought back, other than the focus seems to be on fun, adventure, and persuading others in F1 as to the validity of the existence of F2, F3, F4 – and to learn techniques in order to be able to traverse to take a look for oneself, and have fun, adventure play war games, etc...

...Pretty much the way life is lived in F1...

...But of course, there is more than meets the eye...

Yup, there is much more to do than "sight see", definitely.
However, remember that you're in *THIS* physical reality frame for a reason... whatever that reason might be (to grow spiritually?  to learn to love?  whatever...) this is where your focus needs to be mostly.  :)

QuoteXanth :Yup, there is much more to do than "sight see", definitely.
However, remember that you're in *THIS* physical reality frame for a reason... whatever that reason might be (to grow spiritually?  to learn to love?  whatever...) this is where your focus needs to be mostly.

Xanth – we are the same collective intelligent consciousness, and this is true regardless of the apparent individual perspective/experience, or distracting influences/reasons which might apply.

As that collective ONE – we know what Love is, and we are evolving spiritually.  My (and your) focus may need to be in *THIS* physical reality for the reason of personal 'whatever's' so what is it you (as someone who can/does) recommend to any who wish to expand their experience to include the wholeness of our collective consciousness (F2 F3 F4) as a reason to learn to do so?

What do YOU do while in these places that reflects the underlying motivation YOU have to shift your focus - ?
Your purpose, your reason....

What do I recommend?

Live here.
Live now.  :)

QuoteWhat do I recommend?

Live here.
Live now.

Ryan -

"Here" and "Now" are aspects of our conscious awareness which places us in a time and a place, be that F1, F2 or F3.
Therefore it is hardly something to recommend as it is already a natural state of being for everyone. We, who live - already are 'here and now.' wherever that may be.


In relation to that fact, and to the subject of 'spiritual evolution', do you understand that a perfectly intelligent being with such creative capabilities would find the concept of spiritual evolution to be a 'reason for being' and thus explore the concept until it comprehends whether it needs it, and if so, how this can be achieved and by doing so -  discover?

What is your reason for living here and now [being] regarding the 'spiritual evolution' of us, in relation to the collective elements of our consciousness, as One Being, and in relation to your own experiences within the conscious collective reality?


Do you understand that a Conscious Being able to create such environments within its collective self, is completely intelligent and thus able to discover/know the reason it exists and move toward making that reason a purposeful reality?

You appear to hint that you do -

QuoteYup, there is much more to do than "sight see", definitely.

Are you able to expand on this? 

Do you agree overall with Frank K's account, in relation to the information he, as part of his purpose, shared?  http://www.astralpulse.com/frankkepple.html

Here & now is present awareness..not thinking about the past or the future.

Quote from: Lexy on May 18, 2011, 20:56:15
Here & now is present awareness..not thinking about the past or the future.

^  :)

Wi11iam,
Have you ever thought that, perhaps, you're a bit too wordy?

I agree with his accounts as far as they were "his" experiences, yeah.
What more is there to do in the non-physical?  Well, you're, literally, limited by only your imagination. 

But really, only you can answer that question for yourself.  You're not going to find the answer outside yourself.

 Wi11iam,
Have you ever thought that, perhaps, you're a bit too wordy?


 Do you think I am too wordy Ryan?  How can I help you better understand?


I agree with his accounts as far as they were "his" experiences, yeah.

 Does this signify that you don't know for sure that what he reported as part of his experiences was accurate to what you have experienced regarding the existence of F2, F3, F4? 

Can you verify that what Frank describes regarding these areas is accurate?

I myself know that what Frank shared IS as he describes it, even though I have never consciously experienced such, but I ask you if that is your knowing as well.



What more is there to do in the non-physical?  Well, you're, literally, limited by only your imagination.   

 I did not ask 'what is there to do in the non-physical'  I asked if you, as an astral  projectionist – having witnessed these 'Focuses' and agree with Frank's assessment, that all of it is the product of One consciousness

I also asked you if you understood that this One consciousness is intelligent and therefore, being intelligent, has reason and purpose.

In asking, I am wanting information from you as to whether you are supporting this intelligent consciousness to that end, or whether you have a different agenda, even if it is the agenda of indifference – in which case you will gravitate to those aspects of F3 which are indifferent etc...)


 But really, only you can answer that question for yourself.  You're not going to find the answer outside yourself.



I am of course looking for 'like minded' aspects of the collective, those who understand that the whole of consciousness is indeed One Being and is essentially All Of Us -  that this being is intelligent and has a purpose which of course includes every individual who is able to acknowledge this and connect with it in a way which assists the whole consciousness (F1 F2 F3 & F4) to that inevitable point.

In order to find these aspects - these individuals, I have to ask. 

Sometimes it is obvious but it is not so obvious when the personality is invisible and doesn't seem to want to talk about it.  Perhaps you have talked about it and can provide a link(s) to this information?

Of course, I understand too that you are saying that If I want answers I will have to practice the art myself and 'go there' but then even if I could, how would I recognise you in order to ask you 'there', these questions you, for unknown reasons, don't seem to want to answer me 'here'.

Yes I do understand your comment regarding 'imagination' and certainly I can say that there is a 'place' in the vastness of F3 which I myself have/am creating using the unlimited tool of imagination, and this 'place' is noticeably different from its surrounds (the other 'places' within that realm) – once one knows what to look for.  This 'place' reflects the realization of the totality of what we all are and where we derive our existence and why we exist, and a great deal many more things.

"Do you realize the whole conscious intelligence that you are alive within, has purpose and reason to evolve spiritually."

The reason of course that I ask you is because you might not realise that this is the main reason that you exist at all.

Anything else is distraction – and you know how distracting F3 is, being so vast and still growing...it is easy to not realise why you are, with all that going on.

 Here & now is present awareness..not thinking about the past or the future.


Hi Lexy – I understand what you say here – however it is not a practicable philosophical concept in regards to Intelligent Consciousness and spiritual evolution.

For example, the very fact that there are techniques offered regarding 'how to' based on hoped for future events - to astral project for example, or to look for a guide etc... any number of daily activities which require both an awareness of the past (in relation to the present) and on the projected collective future of the One Consciousness as also pertains to the present.

This is the full meaning of 'Present Awareness'.  Past, present and future working in congregate, with purpose (not the illusion of individual purpose, gratification, amusement etc) but the reality of The Collective Purpose – a true understanding of what it is, what its past is and what it is moving toward becoming...and where the individual 'fits' into this.

Present is a descriptive of where every individual and grouped 'system' within the totality of this One Consciousness reside at any one 'time' – it is and always will be the 'position' of conscious, intelligent awareness.  In the NOW, but not indifferent to where it (we) came from or where we (it) is going.

Quote from: Wi11iam on May 19, 2011, 04:20:43
Does this signify that you don't know for sure that what he reported as part of his experiences was accurate to what you have experienced regarding the existence of F2, F3, F4? 

Can you verify that what Frank describes regarding these areas is accurate?

Let me put it like this:

If you read the full Frank PDF (1187 pages) how many detailed experiences of Frank do you think you will find?

I've elaborated on this issue before in my review of the Newsletters (http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/welcome_to_book_reviews/frank_kepple_astral_projection_truth_newsletter-t32536.0.html). Really, check it out and think things over. Then, please come back and tell us if you've got some new thoughts.

For a while I almost stopped reading the PDF as it gave too little of value, but I've picked it up again, as I feel I should finish it.

Quote from: Wi11iam on May 19, 2011, 04:20:43
Does this signify that you don’t know for sure that what he reported as part of his experiences was accurate to what you have experienced regarding the existence of F2, F3, F4? 

Can you verify that what Frank describes regarding these areas is accurate?

Nope.  Nobody can.
It's impossible to experience someone else's experiences unless you were there with them at the time, but even then, you can then only experience YOUR PERCEPTION of that experience.

QuoteI am of course looking for ‘like minded’ aspects of the collective, those who understand that the whole of consciousness is indeed One Being and is essentially All Of Us -  that this being is intelligent and has a purpose which of course includes every individual who is able to acknowledge this and connect with it in a way which assists the whole consciousness (F1 F2 F3 & F4) to that inevitable point.

I can GUARANTEE you won't find that in reading through other peoples experiences.  You WILL find it by having your own and experimenting with it.

Do I think the Whole is intelligent? No. I think intelligence is one of the concepts which pristine cognition (we) are attracted to. Like a magnetic reaction. Experience is all there is. Watch yourself embrace your partner, feel the love, experience the meaning...it means a lot.

Now imagine yourself distancing yourself from the couple...like an out of body experience...the man is no longer yourself. They are still embracing. You may still see that as a couple in love. Now imagine that your mode of perception starts to change and makes you look at what is happening in a different way...

You no longer see two people there, who have feelings for each other as you start to get rid of all your earthly concepts. Now you just see two forms, attracted to each other...they seem to want to merge. Suddenly, you no longer see the forms as sentient beings...it's just forms that once represented something...once upon a time they meant something...

The lesser the concepts, the freer you get, more room there will be, less friction, the more abstract you can get and be comfortable with it...it may even allow you to see the bigger picture. Continuing with this may even lead to the rejection of all concepts and an absence of self may be achieved. I know...it's hard to imagine that...but it is also hard to imagine something which is infinite.

You get my point, Wi11iam?

Wi11iam,

I get the feeling that you seem to be missing the forest for the trees... completely.

Quote from: Lexy on May 18, 2011, 20:56:15
Here & now is present awareness..not thinking about the past or the future.

the album that i just finished is called "Here/Now" for that reason.

Wi11iam,

Here's one opinion on what evolving spiritually means:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDVtxvvRGQI

  Wow!  All of a sudden things have got very 'wordy'!  :-o
:-D

Okay guys - here is my routine in relation to you.  I wake up I get up (etc) and I read the [collective] response to my opinion.  I then go to work, where I assess what needs to be done and what the best order of doing it will be (this is one sign of conscious intelligence with purpose and reason.)

I the set my body to 'auto' and get about thinking on the comments you have presented in the form of apparent 'outside' opinion (gathered).
Another sign of conscious intelligence and reason and purpose ygtp. (you get the picture)

So this 'thinking' of course is really a process of entering the data you have provided and then placing this data in dovetail with the data I have 'saved' as 'proven truth yet to be seriously proven false' – and – 'Interesting and possibly useful in some now moment of time' (or is that "now" moment of "time?) :-o < [loa] (look of astonishment)

Sometimes the data does not 'fit' – at least not 'properly' as there are gaps.

In the case of such data I place it where it kinda fits and get on with 'it' (experiencing life in F1 unfolding as it does, in relation to my knowing that I exist as an intelligent conscious reality with a mission/purpose/reason.
In the case of Frank K's data (The Resource), it dovetailed almost exactly with my 'proven truth' data and I have shared about this here:

 My Journey  (http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/welcome_to_members_introductions/my_journey-t33884.0.html)

Now Ryan, I understand perfectly that we each are aspects of conscious intelligence and as such we perform according to our F1 personality when we are communing in F1.  It is proven that different personalities 'learn' differently – some are visual, some are hands on, some are – well we all learn 'differently' but we share the same environment, - so to speak – and I appear wordy to you because I use words a particular way and this might not 'appeal' to you.

However, this is a forum, and words do get used in forums and some folk enjoy reading.

Indeed, Frank seems to have a great deal of words he has shared, and I wonder if you are able to read them and understand them and if so then I will look at ways to adapt my writing style that it may be a more enjoyable experience for you, because I think I have something to share which might be important to the wholeness of the intelligent conscious entity that we are.

Also, on your 'feeling' that I may be missing the forest for the trees so to speak, well maybe – but maybe not.

And Ryan, what I asked was not about verifying Franks experiences, but the "area's" (Fs 1 2 3 & 4) where those experiences took place – can you in your own experiences, verify that these areas (of consciousness) exists and are functioning as Frank describes?


Thanks for that link Pauli2. Okay – I see it is your opinion about Franks opinion (a review as you say) and I may have my opinion about your opinion about Franks opinion after I read what you have to say.

Or not – but I will check back with you either way. 

Also – no I haven't read the full PDF you mentioned.  Unless it covers Frank debunking his own model from The FK Resource, I probably don't need to go there – it is not the details of his/others experiences as in "stories" that interests me as much as it is the 'area' where these 'stories' take place.

Thanks for the links to Franks first newsletter

Summerlander.  Watch yourself embrace your partner, feel the love, experience the meaning...it means a lot to that which is conscious and intelligent and has purpose and reason for being.
Experience is all there is?  Experience is useless without conscious purposeful reasoning intelligence, without which, experience simply cannot BE, let alone be ALL there is.

Now imagine yourself distancing yourself from the couple...like an out of body experience...the man is no longer yourself, but the experience of being that man is a part of yourself.

They are still embracing. You may still see that as a couple in love. Now imagine that your mode of perception starts to change and makes you look at what is happening in a different way...

You no longer see two people there, who have feelings for each other as you start to get rid of all your earthly concepts. Now you just see two forms, attracted to each other...they seem to want to merge. Suddenly, you no longer see the forms as sentient beings...it's just forms that once represented something...once upon a time they meant something...

Imagine then that you realise that you went into that experience to experience it because you had reason to do so which as an intelligent consciousness you understand through the discovery of 'being that' you appreciate what 'being that' has done to assist you in your intelligent purpose.
You do know that this purpose may not necessarily be able to be conveyed to that aspect of yourself which was in human form and experiencing human love in form – there may not be 'words' easily conveyable – but certainly if that aspect showed any sign of wanting to know, you would of course assist it in this quest for knowledge, because you are infinitely capable of doing so...in fact it is part of my overall plan as an intelligent conscious being of purpose, that I do commune with all aspects of myself/experience(s)



 The lesser the concepts, the freer you get, more room there will be, less friction, the more abstract you can get and be comfortable with it...it may even allow you to see the bigger picture. Continuing with this may even lead to the rejection of all concepts and an absence of self may be achieved. I know...it's hard to imagine that...but it is also hard to imagine something which is infinite.
You get my point, Wi11iam?
Imagine you are



Imagine I are what?

Oh, but I share that.  No concepts are something I come from, before I came here.  My self is the cause of All That Is, and All That Is Not.  Now imagine that.

You see, whenever I move into All That Is Not – I lose myself.  In doing so, I 'begin' again, and in this I achieve a loop – such as I am unaware that I am reliving because I am reinventing, because ultimately I Am, and it is what I do.
You see, even when I am in All That Is Not, I am still essentially something.
I am consciousness and thus inevitably I will make something out of nothing.
In doing so I will explore that something and in exploring that something I will discover myself.
In discovering myself, I will create 'things' which reflect myself being discovered and this will continue until I have purpose and reason and then I will reach the fulfilment of that purpose and I will not perform the loop procedure and return to All That Is Not, because that would not be intelligent, or purposeful.

What I will be doing is creating something else FROM this point.

Imagine that.

Quote from: Wi11iam on May 19, 2011, 19:05:46
Also, on your 'feeling' that I may be missing the forest for the trees so to speak, well maybe – but maybe not.

Honestly, it's the same forest that Pauli keeps missing... (no offense intended Pauli)

QuoteAnd Ryan, what I asked was not about verifying Franks experiences, but the "area's" (Fs 1 2 3 & 4) where those experiences took place – can you in your own experiences, verify that these areas (of consciousness) exists and are functioning as Frank describes?

Nope, because his experiences are unique to him... I'm not sure how many different ways I can put that before people start to understand it.  O_o  Now, I'm not saying you have to accept it, nor take it into your own belief system.  Just understand what I'm saying. 
Nobody can confirm their existence... the best people can have is their own interpretation of his Focus levels.  This is the entire point I've been trying to get across.  You *can not* have Franks Focus Level experiences.  It's impossible.  :)

 Also, on your 'feeling' that I may be missing the forest for the trees so to speak, well maybe – but maybe not.


 Honestly, it's the same forest that Pauli keeps missing... (no offense intended Pauli)


 Hmm – okay so you have an ongoing dynamics with Pauli – nvm.


Ryan, what I asked was not about verifying Franks experiences, but the "area's" (Fs 1 2 3 & 4) where those experiences took place – can you in your own experiences,
verify that these areas (of consciousness) exists and are functioning as Frank describes?

 Nope, because his experiences are unique to him... I'm not sure how many different ways I can put that before people start to understand it. 


 Perhaps you need to get just a bit more wordy – sometimes it helps.


 O_o  Now, I'm not saying you have to accept it, nor take it into your own belief system.  Just understand what I'm saying. 



 Again, if you really want others to understand you, then communicate a little more than one liners.  It does help the process Ryan.  We don't have to 'agree' with every last little detail, but sharing maps (as I call it) is helpful to all of us as we are in this together (even though you seem to give the impression that we are not)



Nobody can confirm their existence...

 I can – you are relating to a real person having an existence.  I also confirm that you exist.



 ...the best people can have is their own interpretation of his Focus levels. 
This is the entire point I've been trying to get across.  You *can not* have Franks Focus Level experiences.  It's impossible.


 Yet I think we are perhaps not talking the same thing.  I have tried to clarify – I will give it another go.

This from Frank K (resource):



 Okay – so the 'area' I am speaking of in relation to F1, is 'being on a planet in a Galaxy, in a universe, all quiet physical in nature.
Yes _ I understand that we each have a unique experience but we do so in a shared environment.  It is the environment which I am alluding to, and I am pretty sure I have clarified this and that there should be no confusion, so by you saying, "NO" you don't, I then start to wonder then where you are coming from, especially since you seem unable or unwilling to say.

Also I disagree with you that it is impossible to experience someone else's experience – and remind you that there is no limit to the imagination.  However, I do not think it is necessary to experience someone else's life – these are nonetheless 'recorded' in living colour and it is possible to inject or have my conscious individual self injected into your life's imprint(s) [see "quantum jumping" FMI (for more information)] and experience any of them as you are/have/will/do...but that would not be necessary.  My own life has provided the necessary information.


:)

If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.
~Albert Einstein

Okay Ryan  in reading the link Pauli pointed me towards, I see this comment from you in reply to another:

Killa Rican: I always enjoyed reading franks posts as theres alot i can relate to in it, but i never really agreed nor liked his accusation that all being/entitys we encounter are fabrications of the mind.

You:  Because he never said that.
Focus 2 oC entities are created of your mind.
Focus 3 oC "people" are real beings.

So I ask, does this description of these 'areas' align with your own experiences or are they constructs of Franks own mind/belief systems?
I think my question is okay to ask those who claim to AP, and there is a lot of talk about the comparisons of Munroe's models and Franks - the models may be different and I get that Frank simplified things into 4 (or perhaps 5) 'areas of the One Consciousness' so of course I am curious as to what others who experience AP have to say, for or against the models - certainly there is alignment in them both, (Munroe's and Kepple's) and from my own perspective and journey (experience) information I have, aligns with what Frank has to say. 

Quote from: Wi11iam on May 20, 2011, 03:52:13
Okay Ryan  in reading the link Pauli pointed me towards, I see this comment from you in reply to another:

Killa Rican: I always enjoyed reading franks posts as theres alot i can relate to in it, but i never really agreed nor liked his accusation that all being/entitys we encounter are fabrications of the mind.

You:  Because he never said that.
Focus 2 oC entities are created of your mind.
Focus 3 oC "people" are real beings.

So I ask, does this description of these 'areas' align with your own experiences or are they constructs of Franks own mind/belief systems?
I think my question is okay to ask those who claim to AP, and there is a lot of talk about the comparisons of Munroe's models...

Monroe.

His name is Monroe.

-------


First of all, Frank's model is an extreme, almost hopeless simplification.

Most creatures in F 2 oC are real creatures, as described in FJ and Cosmic Journeys (Rosalind McKnight), but you have to decide which Focus you are talking about as there is a huge difference between for example F 15 and F 22.

Huge.

Really Huge.

F 15 (part of F 2 oC) is connected to F 27 and F 15 is constantly being worked on by discarnates from F 27 as described in Moens 3rd book.

F 22 (also part of F 2 oC) is dream land, where many entities are thought forms, some are aliens (Monroe gave an example in one of TMI's youtube clips), some are discarnates and some are other fellow dreamers or OBE incarnates.

If you at all are going to use Frank's over-simplified model, which in my opinion has little value, please state what Monroe Focus you are talking about as things otherwise quickly become silly.

As i said, most adventures by the Explorers as described in FJ & Cosmic Journeys were done in F 1 oC and F 2 oC, but if you use Frank's labels, you just make things incomprehensible.

Be clear.

State what on Earth you are talking about!

If you re-read FJ & Cosmic Journeys you will notice that the overwhelming amount of Explorer experiences comes from F 12 and some also come from F 10, which are widely different from F 22 and F 15.


Do you get it?

Do you see why I think Frank's model is plain silly?

Do it right. And do it right from the beginning, please.

Use the correct Focus Level labels, and not some fuzzy home-made Frank stuff with minimal scientific background.

Please.

--------



Personally I would like some one to describe F 18 a little better as it is totally centered around PUL (http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/welcome_to_astral_consciousness/pul_pure_unconditional_love_retrievals-t33529.0.html;msg280322), but if I said "Please, you big Frank expert, talk about Love in F 2 oC!", I would probably get crap as an answer.

Why?

Because I haven't stated what Monroe Focus I want the Frank expert to talk about when I only refer to F 2 oC.

That's why it's crappy.

So please, don't fall into the trap.

Be specific, not fuzzy.

Use the Monroe Focuses, please.

Please.

  Aw geez...and in reading the comments further in the thread Pauli created, Ryan you say something which actually tells the reader that you DO acknowledge  the 'areas' Frank speaks of...okay so I wont 'bug' you anymore, asking for clarification...I am starting to look like I am stalking you in my persistence – so will leave things as they are...the words you say tell me the answer is "yes" you do, although you seem to lean more towards Munroe's model/labels than Keppel's, that is not here nor there...

QuoteAs for the labeling... 
Personally speaking, I absolutely love the labeling!  It works great for me!  Although, I do recognize that it might not work for everyone, but I feel it helps me immensely to know exactly what I've experienced and exactly how far along I believe I am. - Ryan

Monroe

Gosh Pauli!

Ah – well we each come from the direction we do, and at least we can respect that yes?
Okay – 'sorry' for the mistake in spelling 'Monroe' – Fortunately no one can own the Invisible Realm, although the concepts/interpretations might be owned by institutions, the Invisible Realm existed before anyone 'discovered' it. :-o

Simplification is best.  Sure, we all have our preferred way of learning etc...but the labels in the different models pretty much point to the same thing.

I am not here to judge Frank K's model in comparison to Monroe's – that would be wasteful.

F1 F2 F3 F4 are suitable enough labels and it would be 'splitting hairs' to carry on in complaint by not being 'proper' – a distraction even.
YOU know what I am saying when I refer to – for example – F1. 

no

Wi11iam...

Have you experienced the OOBE-state yet? If you haven't, do it. Frank's focuses of consciousness are not "areas". The metaphysical realm is not even actual...it's a different realm altogether where thought is quintessential. Even space/distance there is a thought...not actual.

Frank's model isn't necessarily wrong. It is an interpretation. a lot of what he describes tallies with my experience anyway but I see things in a different way. I wouldn't say Frank is wrong though, I'd say that he simply has his own way of looking at the phenomena. This is what Xanth has been trying to explain to you but you seem to get defensive all the time. What is it? If you are eager to have Kepple's model verified...I'm sorry to tell you that it can't have that. The interpretation is SUBJECTIVE.

Whilst some, for instance, slot their experiences into classifications such as physical, astral, mental, buddhic, atmic, monadic, adic and so forth...others simply see it all as happening in the same realm. For others it is just different states of consciousness. Others will argue that such experiences are illusory and concocted by the brain somehow.

Do yourself a favour, pick a method, put it into practive, enter such realm free of preconceptions and draw your own conclusions. Going back to our other argument, there are certain states you can achieve where you can forget what an object such as an apple is and suddenly switch back to the mode where you know exactly what it is, all the while you can be watching this object as hypnagogic imagery and 'flicking' between the modes of knowing and not knowing. Amazing, isn't it. This is how I know that, intrinsically, we are empty...and it is the concepts that we cling to that defines us. Without experience...there is no observer nor observed. Your sense of being something is merely those concepts that you identify yourself with. nothing more.

Experience the state and then come back with richer wordy posts. I know your name is Germanic and fairly close to Belgium, where the waffles come from, but you can help that.

If you are eager to have Kepple's model verified...I'm sorry to tell you that it can't have that.

This is great!  I did wonder about that Astral Pulse Island – where the thought seemed to be for practitioners can meet and verify the experience.
So it would appear that the process is very similar, but the experiences are totaliy different.

F1  Similar and different – however as a shared reality the effects of what happens on this planet always have an effect on everyone, just different degrees, unless it was something major.

F2 – ah yes the area (whatever) where the individuals thoughts/beliefs become real
F3 – Where those thoughts have created 'lands' (again – whatever) and these lands are collectively a vast and seemingly endless shared reality and within the boarders of these lands are real individuals sharing similar belief systems, and there are 'guides' and such to help the traveller and there is also the practice of retrieval.

It sounds like you have not been to that actual area, and likely wouldn't if you believe that everything doesn't actually exist.

Also it doesn't really matter what these areas are called – even if they are called areas – and the only subjective I am most interested in is the collective subjective – so thanks for your subjective explanation – I like reading your posts summer but I tend to distrust any entity who tells me to "melt into the nothing" ( and other such phrasing) and such like advice - because I suspect such entities have been telling me that for a long time and I have been stupid enough to listen...and unobservant in noticing that they stick around waiting for me to re-emerge anew so they can tell me 'how it is' and use my beliefs to lord it over me while they live off my suffering.

(Their counterparts here in F1 are the 20% of the worlds population living off the backs of the 80% whom believe that this is the way it must be...now I wonder who told them that?)

Relax I say, there is a plan (yes – from the heart of intelligence and reason) to make it all better, and distracting oneself in the un actuality of this meta realm is vainglorious nonsense if it has no practical purpose relating to the totality and the real concerns and issues that need to be sorted...fortunately there is a place in the vastness of the Invisible Realm (metaphysical as you call it) which is aware of the issues and is doing a great deal about it – but the bottom line is the BEING that we all are and the birthing of that into something which isn't an illusion, delusion, figment of imagination...and this process could do with everyone's help, but ah...folk seem to get themselves so distracted.

What do you want with your waffle?

 :-D

My friend...I think you misunderstood when I used the word subjective. I didn't mean to say the "data" perceived is created by us because, according to my experiences, there is a strong suggestion that some is created by us and some isn't. I meant to say that the experience itself is subjective...meaning the same type of data can be interpreted in various ways by different individuals.

That API...I might have been there once...or perhaps not. All I know is that I stumbled upon an island with a pyramid and Kepple happened to be there. Whether it was real or imagined...one can never know. It seems that environments created by you are more 'malleable' than what appears to be that of others but is that enough to make such a distinction?

These days I'm more concerned about the information and the help I can get from the OOBE-state rather than theorising about what it actually is. You catch my drift?

By the way, here's a drawing I did based on that crisp pyramid environment experience. The guy below looked like Kepple playing with prisms inside the pyramid. I can never say it was him for sure though:

(http://i1003.photobucket.com/albums/af154/Arlindobatista/ApiKepple.jpg)

After the experience, I've been told that Frank liked to build things in API. I was never aware of this. Coincidence or did I actually see him having fun in a BST which was manifested by everyone who has looked at the API pic? You decide...

Yes – I remember seeing this pic in the art thread of this site.

For me, everything is real.  I view the whole human situation as being one thing – one entity.
I realise that this is not ordinary, as we are taught and accept quiet readily the truth that we are separate and individual.
Historical evidence supports this belief system and makes it look real by acting it out.
It is this acting out which creates history.
I have learned to view the whole thing as one thing, notwithstanding that in doing so I am not 'seeing' what is as I 'should' be seeing it, as a fair chunk of individuals 'see' things.

I add the data to itself.  Now I have had enough experience with OOBE – state – and in reading what others say about their own experiences I accumulate more data regarding that whole thing.

I understand that the whole thing is Consciousness, and from that point, all 'things' become.
I further understand that this Consciousness is obviously intelligent and purposeful, and that it is expanding through the accumulation of experience, not only earthbound experience but 'other' dimensional experience, such as you yourself are also aware of.

I do not differentiate as to what is real and what is not.  Anything Conscious awareness experiences, is indeed real. 
I have learned to expand.  I have learned to 'see' that it is possible to gather the experiences into a cohesive 'picture' and enjoy the intimacy of experience as a result.

On the subject of the 'blank' areas – we all know of these,  I 'see' them as being 'walls' between differing realities.
Some of these blank areas can cause the aspect of intelligence moving through them to literally forget all prior experience, of where it 'came from' in order to 'get to' where it goes..
Some suggest that this has to do with the density – especially to do with F1 – our shared reality matrix of common ground – literally, earthbound - and thus 'normally' we each believe we have had no prior 'anything' – we come from nothing and this gives us each an understanding of 'beginning'.

The different realities are also of Conscious Intelligence.  As ONE 'thing', the Conscious Intelligence is the primary ingredient of ALL experience.

I realise that in today's climate of collective human thought, such a concept points to 'God' and that this tends to leave a 'bad taste in the mouth' as the saying goes.  On the subject of 'God', history shows us a collective truth that religion – that collective human representative of 'what god is', is more a hindrance (to spiritual evolution) than a help.

This is great individuals are moving on from such god-concepts, apart from the fact that it tends to get individuals agreeing that thinking in terms of "all consciousness derives from the One" equates to their being a 'God' and therefore, "no thanks".

Ah, but when understood from a differing view point, one begins to realise that IF this were in fact the truth, THEN we each are part of that same thing, and it is possible to realign the thinking processes to reflect that fact.

Easier said than done of course. 

The ramifications themselves become a source of interest and focus.

I have no doubts whatsoever in the fact that individuals who OOBE are in fact doing so, and that the experiences they have are real, even if they themselves doubt the validly as to the reality of what it is they experience.

I also understand that 'dreams' too, are real.  Reality has everything to do with consciousness, in that consciousness itself is real – and is the singular aspect responsible for giving/making anything and everything, real.

True – the experiencee can doubt the validity, or in analysing the data of experience, can deduce an incorrect assessment.  Indeed, there is no doubt in my understanding that the personality experiencing OOBE does so based largely on how they perceive their dominant reality F1 – Life on Earth – and these concepts remain with the persona – whatever the situation being experienced.

Even if one assumes the role of observer, in any experience, what is being observed will also be interpreted according to how that persona thinks when in their 'normal', dominant reality.

Or maybe my mind manifested it all. Perhaps OOBEs are brain-concocted illusions. Have you ever thought of that, Wi11iam? After all, DMT is produced endogenously and, as you know, it is a hallucinogenic substance.

 
As to the One Intelligent Consciousness... 

...What I understand about this is that it is also an individualised fragment of a much vaster Consciousness and is the instrument of that vaster aspect which is used to explore.
It may then seem erroneous to call this fragmented Consciousness as being The One Consciousness, however, my understanding is that fragmented or not, it derives and is connected to the Source, and everything which is conscious is also connected to this Source.

The experience of being an individual naturally induces the belief that we are not connected in any way.  This is part and parcel of the human experience but of course, as many will verify, there is a vaster reality we are not ordinarily able to see or interact with, and even when we do, we are not at all positive as to what it is, or if it is 'real'.

Exploration is the motivating ingredient, and often the discovery process is accompanied by realisation which points to other discoveries.

Ultimately it is The Source of Consciousness that is doing the discovering, experiencing, and collecting of data.

In order to explore the Universe of F1 –Matter, Energy, Space and Time, there must have been a process of 'dummying down' so that each aspect from Consciousness outside F1 moving into F1, had its part to play in creating the next until eventually creating forms of matter in which to experience through and collect the data of experience – the details of such an undertaking would be pretty much incomprehensible to human thinking.

What does it take for a vast intelligent consciousness to enter the parameters of this universe?

The result is evident – at least on the surface.  Personally I understand that the reason this universe being what it is has everything to do with this One Conscious Intelligence initially interacting with the Quantum Particles, and this interaction is what created Galaxies and everything else.

My understanding is that such an awesomely powerful reaction of creative expression cannot be contained within human form – it has to go through a mind-bendingly complex and time consuming process (from the pov of intelligence within this universe).

Inevitably this process produced forms of matter which were – if not ideal, then certainly usable for Conscious Intelligence to experience through and to collect the data of experience.

Each aspect of fragmentation brought the Conscious Intelligence a step closer to being able to experience F1 as a specie life-form which could live on a planet suitable for such a thing.

Reverse engineer the process and we have a better understanding of what the Invisible Realm is, and why it is, as it is.

Throughout this whole process, with each 'dummying down' some prior knowledge of where it 'came from' would not have been retained within the experience of the particular new instrument of experience. 

The Source would have understood the likely outcome of such processes, and would have placed 'failsafe' measures in which to make sure that this 'forgetting oneself' (as The Source) would not be permanent....each creative aspect would act as a mentor for each following aspect of this creative process.

Eventually this consciousness incarnated into the form it created for the purpose of exploring a planetary existence, and in doing so, the reflection of this experience wrought through the belief systems of the individuals experiencing, pinged back to the Invisible Realm and became 'real' – this process made possible by the experience of F1, through the influence of F2 (where individual imagination/belief system becomes real/alive) and through there into the aspect of F3, where it situates itself as a real vibrant and expanding system of a collective shared reality.
F3 is a problematic situation in that it is not an ideal, or indeed a desired state for intelligent consciousness to dwell indefinitely within.  This is due to the instability of opposing forces which were created by the human experience and its belief in duality...

Or maybe my mind manifested it all. Perhaps OOBEs are brain-concocted illusions. Have you ever thought of that, Wi11iam? After all, DMT is produced endogenously and, as you know, it is a hallucinogenic substance.



Sure have thought about it.  It is the base reason for the belief system of the aspect of humanity called 'scepticism'.
You are welcome to belief this is what is taking place when you have your experiences, and perhaps one day science will be able to prove irrevocably that this is in fact the case.
As a belief I imagine that the believer would need to 'see' things that way in order to stay somewhat detached from being a part of a possible collective intelligent consciousness and the implications which may derive from this awareness.

On a more 'conspiratal' note, their may well be an aspect of the Invisible Realm which has enjoyed the illusion of 'owning' and controlling to some degree the way that realm functions and in order to keep that illusion 'alive' things need to go the way they have been in relation to the earth-bound – certainly there does seem to be some kind of battle going on among some very powerful entities here on earth, so it will have its counterpart in the Invisible Realm.

It all gets down to belief, and who was it that mentioned earlier in this thread that "Imagination is Limitless" or words to that effect.
Imagination is the first building block in the creation of belief systems and the energy focused.

Personally I don't think the human brain is a stand alone entity tricking the thing that it lives in.  It is a tool for consciousness and an intelligent consciousness would be able to 'work it out'...especially if it had the backing of its collective self.. ;)

Quote from: Wi11iam on May 23, 2011, 19:29:04
In order to explore the Universe of F1 –Matter, Energy, Space and Time...

What Focus do you mean with "F1"?

Do you mean Focus 10, Focus 3 or C1?

And, yes, I ask from the point of Frank's model of Monroe Focuses.

Quote from: Pauli2 on May 24, 2011, 08:01:18
What Focus do you mean with "F1"?

Do you mean Focus 10, Focus 3 or C1?

And, yes, I ask from the point of Frank's model of Monroe Focuses.

See:
3) In depth: Focus 1
at this link (http://www.astralpulse.com/frankkepple.html)

be specific

  be specific

 Specifically, Pauli, what do you have to add to the subject of "Spiritual Evolution"?

After reading The Frank Kepple Resource I was in a 2nd hand store and brought a DVD.  It was about a guy who was stung by box jellyfish.
He describes his NDE and while I am watching I recall what Frank said about what he calls the four differing 'focuses' of consciousness, and F1 was where the man was at the time he was stung by these box jellyfish (apparently they are the second deadliest poisonous thing known to exist on earth) he then entered another state as he was losing his battle to stay in F1 (he was dying) and in this state he was at first confronted by darkness, and then some kind of evil presence which manifested itself and was telling him that he had to go to hell and then another manifested image appeared to him – radiant and good.
This presence seemed to dissipate the first manifestation and this presence had some questions for the guy.
Then the guy reports that the being moved to one side and revealed a beautiful land which the guy saw as Heaven.
The guy was then given a choice – he could enter this land or he could go back to his life on Earth.

Now this kind of story is not unique at all – in fact they are quite common although there is still much debate (distraction) as to weather these experiences are 'real' or 'illusion'

What I saw in watching this DVD was a process – one in which Frank describes and ascribes more detail to.

Now the guy chose to return to his earth life and predictable became a preacher for Jesus.
(this is because he understood his experience to categorically support the Christian belief system) and when he does inevitably die, he will return to this Heaven and for him, all things will be lovely.

Indeed, there are far worse areas within the F3 reality, as the stories go and far better ones by all accounts, and this is in most cases to do with personal, individual preference.

Illusion is real, tricks are real, and cons are real.  Illusion is 'smoke and mirrors' (as the saying goes) and it appears a bulk of individuals experiencing 'other states of awareness' are at a loss as to categorically state that what they experience is indeed 'real' rather than 'illusion'.

Illusion is real, and is often used for the purpose of concealment and is a popular source of entertainment.
If there is some concern as to the true nature of that which is being experienced, there is no 'thing' to stop the individual, or group of individuals from examining the 'thing' more closely.

There may be an underlying concern that in doing so, the entertainment value is lost.  Like knowing how a trick/illusion is done – spoils the illusion.
There may be a fear of exposing something behind the illusion that might force the individual/group to let go of precious beliefs which go a long way in making that individual/group what they 'see' themselves as being, and all that such 'identification' may imply.

It is all part of 'Spiritual Evolution' – to understand the real illusion and why it is an illusion.

Even the language and labels are part of the illusion – and assist in keeping the illusion real.

But we work with what we have, and by all accounts there is a vast amount of uncovering to do, and a myriad of potentially distractive elements which could be authorised to hamper that investigation.

If we so chose to let them.

:)

I read this a few years back, and rediscovered it more recently.  It is an interesting opinion regarding the nature of – what I call 'the Invisible Realm' in relation to we, the earth bound,  in F1 and focuses on the suppression of  a reality hidden behind the illusions of the so-called 'paranormal' – such as 'Astral'.
I quote a particular part of the document, but the document as a whole is a very interesting read.




 It is well past the hour that humans wake up to what they are participating in and learn how they can stop it – one individual at a time. We are the key to our dilemma and we must learn how to deactivate the suppression matrix so we can awaken to the Sovereign Integral consciousness, live within its behavioural intelligence, and release ourselves from the grip of the mind and human instrument.

Those who extol hope and light, I can only say that you will be disappointed if your hope is contingent on anyone, save yourself, to facilitate change in this world. It is truly as Gandhi explained; we must become the change we want to see in the world, but the key is to define what change.

Have you ever considered the definition of your Self? What is it that defines you? If you look in the mirror and peel away the masks, the pretentions, the deceptions, the fears, the thoughts, the feelings; what remains? For most they would answer their soul or spirit. And if I told you that the soul – as most define it – does not truly exist apart from the mind, what would you say?

The change I want to see in the world is that people begin to see themselves as multidimensional beings whose core is the Sovereign Integral that is the distillation of First Source in a singular, human expression. If people were only in tune with this frequency, they would understand that all is united in oneness, equality, and truth. This is the definition of the Grand Portal as it has been disclosed by the WingMakers mythology for the past ten years.
Each individual is a portal unto themselves, and this portal is the access point to the interdimensional worlds of the Sovereign Integral, where the human instrument, like a space suit, is finally removed and the individual realizes their true, infinite nature. And in this realization, understands that everyone –
EVERYONE – is equal in this state, and in this equality we are ONE. The Grand Portal is when humanity stands-up as ONE BEING to this all-encompassing realization and then we transcend the suppression framework and express as Sovereigns.

2012 is a single page in the "book" called the Era of Transparency and Expansion. The life of deception – the era of veils over veils over veils – is dissipating, provided enough people rise up within themselves and honor the Sovereign Integral within by expressing its truth.

But to do this, people must become attuned to its consciousness apart from the HMS, and this is the course of action that people must engage in. The seeking of information is over. The seeking of a master, guru, religion, spiritual path, or way-shower is over. The seeking of objects of blame is over.

The seeking of hidden information behind the dark forces is over. It is the expression of the Sovereign Integral consciousness and the deactivation of the suppression framework that becomes the focus of each individual in this new era.




click here to access the whole document (http://www.wingmakers.com/downloads/Interview_James_PC.pdf)

Quote from: Wi11iam on May 24, 2011, 18:11:07
...and F1 was where the man was at the time he was stung...

Which F1 oC?

There are at least three Monroe Focuses to choose among, C1, F 3 and F 10.

Which one?

Be specific.

Specifically, Pauli, what do you have to add to the subject of "Spiritual Evolution"?

Quote from: Wi11iam on May 25, 2011, 17:32:37
Specifically, Pauli, what do you have to add to the subject of "Spiritual Evolution"?

Wi11iam, did you happen to watch that video link I posted?
I'm wondering your thoughts on the content... since it's directly related to one perceived notion of Spiritual Evolution.

Quote from: Xanth on May 25, 2011, 18:07:35
Wi11iam, did you happen to watch that video link I posted?
I'm wondering your thoughts on the content... since it's directly related to one perceived notion of Spiritual Evolution.

It's on my list of things to do Xanth - do you have thoughts on it?

Wi11iam,

Here's one opinion on what evolving spiritually means:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDVtxvvRGQI

Later....

Wi11iam, did you happen to watch that video link I posted?
I'm wondering your thoughts on the content... since it's directly related to one perceived notion of Spiritual Evolution.

   Okay I got through most of that video you linked and the content is interesting and I understand its relevance in relation to spiritual evolution of individuals and specie.