do you believe in karma? why or why not?

[Nerezza]

I believe in sin, which is essentially the same as Karma except its backlash comes after you die.

[Soulfire]

Hi,

I absolutely believe in karma, but not in quite as literal or rigid a way as many people seem to.  I don't see it as a form of "punishment", but as a logical and practical process in God's creation that assists our personal growth.  I believe everything is made up of energy.  Every person, object, even thought and consciousness is at its most basic level energy.  If you believe that, you can begin to see that the basic laws of energy have a lot in common with Karma.  When you interact with the universe somehow, you change the "frequency" of your own energy and send some of that out into the world.  This energy will always flow back to you in some way.  I believe God created the universe whereby that energy will always come back to you in a way that is most useful to you from the highest possible perspective.

Say for example you really dislike somebody.  This lowers the frequency of your energy.  Even thought is an action, so some of that energy is sent out and will come back to you in some other form.  It is likely to come back to you in a way that you will experience as the manifestation of that energy that is most likely to assist your personal growth in the most profound way.  Usually it will come back in some way associated with the frequency of the energy you sent out.  Maybe the lesson assiciated with "not liking somebody" might be understanding and compassion, unconditional love.  Depending on your unique personal situation and what you are most likely to respond to, that energy might come back in many ways.  (Energy follows the path of least resistance)  Maybe somebody will not like you for no reason, and you will see how it feels.  If you require a more "severe" lesson before you will be willing to "listen", maybe that karma will be "saved up" and added to other karmic energies of a similar frequency until it finally manifests as somebody physically attacking you.  If you are a person more likely to respond to kindness, maybe that energy will come back in the form of the person you "don't like" doing something unexpectedly nice for you, making you realize your mistake.  There are endless ways for that energy to come back to you, but it will always come back in a way most likely to "get through" to you in a meaningful way and at the most efficient time for that lesson to take place.  Since time is perceived differently in the higher perspectives, it does not really matter if that energy comes back to you in this life or another.  It will "wait" until the time is right for you to get the most possible benefit from the exchange.

The final thing to consider is that I believe all of this happens cumulatively.  Each person's "karma" interacts with everyone else's, and the energy is often exchanged in indirect ways.  Person A has an effect on person B, then person B might transfer that energy to person C, and finally maybe person C transfers that same energy in a different form back to person A.  All of the people in this process will receive that energy in the most efficient way possible to assist their long term growth as understood by a higher perspective.  If you require a lesson to be administered by kindness, it will be delivered by somebody to whom expressing kindness is an important part of their growth process as well.  The same is true when you require an unpleasant lesson to learn something.  Sending out positive energy (say for instance unconditional love) will also come back to you in the most efficient way possible when the time is right.  And I do not necessarily believe that because we put out positive energy, that it necessarily comes back in a form that is "pleasant" any more than I believe the karmic response from "negative" actions always has to come back as something unpleasant.  I believe ALL energy comes back in the time and manner which will provide you with the best opportunity to learn and grow, and there may be times when an experience that is unpleasant to the ego fulfills those requirements better than something pleasant to the ego could.  This is a simplified model, but hopefully it makes sense?

--Soulfire

[beavis]

I dont "believe" anything. I think karma exists in the form of revenge. If you kick a man in the nuts, he might want something bad to happen to you. If he has any energy, his intent can manifest in reality with strength similar to telekinesis, which is very small. If you tinkle off enough people, this force will build up.

[Spirit_k9]

I don't subscribe to the karmic theory, at least not the way it's traditionally explained....you do something bad, it carries over to the next life where you have to correct it...however, what goes around comes around sure does apply at least to a 'localized' version of karma (this lifetime and it's consequences).

I think we're here to progress, grow, and learn (about many things). If you don't learn the most important things and progress spiritually, you get sorta recycled. LOL, what a word for it.

[curiousgirl]

soulfire, yes your explanation does make sense, and i like your theory, too.  it seems it would explain some things (at least, if you are referring only to karma in the present life, and not extended through several lives), like why good people could sometimes get "punished" with bad things... sometimes i get so tired of hearing "well, it's probably bad karma from another life" or something like that.  this is one of the problems i have with karma... that supposedly what bad karma we get in one life could get carried over into our next life or whatever, and whatever bad things happen to us right now (in this life) is the result of bad things we did in another life.  
i mean, when we are reincarnated, we don't remember anything about our past lives.  sure, we can go back and look at them through meditation or astral projection or whatever, but not everyone knows that they can do this or how they can do this, and so must deal with this life as it is laid before them.  so when bad karma hits us in this life, and it's because of something we did in a past life, we don't even know what we're being punished for, or what lesson we're supposed to learn out of it!  so then, how will we be sure we're learning the lesson correctly?  i'll try to think up a good example to illustrate what i'm thinking... right now i can't think of anything... it's getting too late... yawn[|)]

[WalkerInTheWoods]

I believe in karma as cause and effect. Every action has a reaction, everything has an effect on something else. If reincarnation is true, I doubt that you will have to pay for things in the next life for what you have done in this life as people tend to present it. I do think that you shape who you are. If you are a hateful person, then you will continue to be until you change and deal with all the things that being a hateful person brings, which may carry over into several life times. I also see karma as natural law. An example would be, we cut down trees, burn and pollute our atmosphere, this in turn decreases our air quality and environment causing more sickness, etc. I don't see it as every little action will come back to us, but the more effort and energy you put towards something the more it will effect you. Like if someone is always helpful and loving they are more likely to have this returned to them. Somene who is always dishonest will soon not be trusted by others. Karma is the natural law that we all know, but take for granted that it is there.

[Tarot]

Soulfire beautifull post. I see that thru the "Truth" of us all being One, everything we do stemming from all 3 level's Physical, Mental & Spiritual of our being has an effect on the "Whole." and I dont just mean on this planet I mean Universally! Every Thought,Word & Action effects all of Creation our only purpose at this time is to realize this and become responsible stewards of the power of creation that the beautiful Creator,God/Goddes,Great Spirit etc...Has blessed us with. Karma is a broad and complex manifestation that works on many levels. First thing to truly understand is nothing can enter your Energy Field unless you first put it there. So the Goal is to see every experience that happens to you as a manifestation of your thoughts, words and actions. Then to go within and "FEEL" what the real message is behind the experience. See everything Symbolicly not at face value. And know that no lesson or experience is ever to hard for you to heal for you are the "Light my children" and we posess all the "Love" we will ever need.

Peace, Light & Love

[Soulfire]

quote:Originally posted by curiousgirl

so when bad karma hits us in this life, and it's because of something we did in a past life, we don't even know what we're being punished for, or what lesson we're supposed to learn out of it!  so then, how will we be sure we're learning the lesson correctly?

Consider the possibility that it is not really necessary to consciously know what lesson you are learning or why you need to learn it.  Let's go back to a simple example of perhaps having a person dislike you for no apparent reason as a manifestation of a karmic charge.  If my ideas of how Karma work are intact, this would only manifest when your being and life situation are both "fertile" for learning the attached lesson.  Anything that manifests only presents an "opportunity" for us to choose to learn.  By fertility, I mean that the probability that you will choose to learn at that time is high enough that investmenting that energy at that time is efficient.  So someone dislikes you for no apparent reason, and the "fertility" of the time that happens is likely to guarantee that you are aware of this dislike, and it is probably manifesting through a person who your ego would prefer for some reason not to have dislike you, etc.  You do not need to be consciously aware of what lesson this is designed to teach you in order for it to be effective.  It is not like conditioning or punishment (these are human tools, not God's) where you need to be able to connect the punishment to the cause or "infraction" that inspired that reinforcement.  Simply experiencing that somebody dislikes you and experiencing what that feels like and maybe thinking to yourself "If they only took a moment to get ti KNOW me they might not feel like that!" is all that is required.  Then you may have a fleeting thought of something like "I hope I never do that to someone".  Eventually, this lesson (often combined with many many others) will teach you to be more understanding and unconditionally loving of people, even though you may have no conscious awareness of needing to learn this or what you "did" to attract these karmic situations to yourself.  As people open up more to their higher selves, they begin to consciously understand some of these connections and see the lessons much more clearly, but this is not "required" in order to give you the opportunities to learn and grow in the necessary ways.  

--Soulfire

[curiousgirl]

i understand what you're saying, soulfire... my questions that you quoted above were aimed at the "traditional" or usual view of karma that people tend to preach.  your version makes sense.  

i'm attempting to write out an example story and my thoughts on karma, but it's kinda hard to do without sounding like a jackass, heh heh [:I].  it's so hard to write it in a way that makes sense!

[jilola]

Karma, imho, is the acccumulated set of life lessons.
As we are a manifestation of the originating source, call it god, or whatever, thhe concept of transincanational punishment or reward is nonsensical.  
We are meant to learn of individuality and the effects of personal will as contrasted with that of others.

2cents & L&L
jouni

[Adrian]

Greetings,

Karma is an aspect of the Universal law of cause and effect as it applies to the individual. Every effect has a corresponding cause,even if the cause is not immediately apparent. Also, causes and effects are not isolated incidents, but members of a whole chain of such causes and effects ending only at The All.

Personal karma is the accumulation of effects as a result of life causes. It is the negative karma which needs to be dealt with by equilibration before progress can be made. Each life is fundamentally to learn valuable lessons, gain experience and equilibrate karma.

Karma has three fundamental forms; karma from past lives which is being equilibrated in this life, karma from this life which is also being equlibrated in this life, and karma being created in this life which wil have to be dealt with in a future life. It all depends on the severity of the cause, and whether it can be balanced in this lifetime or whether it is necessary to return in such a future life as it can be balanced then. This is why everyone chooses their own lives, their parents, circumstances, experiences and other factors.

With best regards,

Adrian.

[TorosDead]

I believe in Karma to a certain extent.  For examply, I don't think that if you steal you will be stolen from necissarily.  But by stealing you break the law and put yourself in a situation to go to jail or pay fines of some sort, which wouldn't have happened had you not stolen in the first place.  I also believe that sins committed that you aren't punished for here, you will be held accountable for in the next life.  I believe we are eternal beings, and therefor we may not necissarily be punished for everything while we are still here on earth.

[Arc]

i believe in Karma, and even if its not true, it will help keep people moraly right to an extent. besides, hope that something good will happen when you do good, makes you want to do a lot of good. And you don't want to do bad or something kinda like black magic and the three-fold thing could happen

[Nagual]

I try not to believe...  I prefer to know.  So far, I can't say anything about karma... if it exists.
As Arc said, karma, like paradise/hell and other beliefs or traditions, have the "side effect" (purpose?) of scaring people into behaving good...

[curiousgirl]

actually, i'm not sure what i'm trying to ask here...  i would like to hear what everyone's opinions are on how karma works, or if you even believe in it.  i'd especially like to hear from the ones who don't believe in it, and why you don't.  see, i have mixed feelings about it, and it seems like the more things i learn about life and spiritual things, the more confused i get.  to some extent i believe in it, but sometimes things about it just don't seem to make sense to me, or if i think about how it applies with other theories about life and stuff, it doesn't seem to fit right.  some people get really dogmatic about karma, or think of it in such extremes as "every little bitty bad thought or tiny thing you do will come back to you to torment you" and i can't really seem to believe that.  so, um, if anyone has some interesting thoughts to share about karma, please post!