Hi Jilola,
I think you might have missed a very important point You said
"But when you think about love earned there's always the notion of obligation. "I did this and that and now you gotta love me."
I don't think there is a way to force someone to love you.
And the thought of obligation has no place in Love it is freely Given and Received and should carry no thought of any kind of reward or payment. But I think you can earn Love by kindness, careing, going out of your way to make someone feel loved or just feel comfortable, make them laugh, make them a special suprise dinner, ever make a bath with candles and bubbles for your special person?(Man or Woman) You might try something like it after they have put in a hard day, but remember expect noting in in return ...... you might be suprised by what you receive.
Much Love
Happy Travels
Windameir
But that'ss what I said. Love cannot be earned. and that earned love has the obligation stuck to it. I think my english mayhave been a bit convoluted.
Love is an absolute in my belief. It is and should be something that stands apart from anything we do or have in the physical. Affection, desire, lust annd thekind are something else. They can arise from the physical plane only but Love is. Just that;it is and thus it can only be given and not earned by any action.
2cents & L&L
Jouni
[:)]
~kakkarot
You need to read 'The Mastery of Love' by Don Miguel Ruiz.
Kiauma: Thanks for the tip. I'll see if I can find the book.
2cents & L&L
Jouni
Love itself is the reward. Demaning love in return for something isn't love at all. There is only pure love and anything else is not a form of love.
AlphaOmega: Right on. That' my point exactly.
Something else occured to me. There is ony one kind of love regardless of who it's felt for. It's only the manner in which the love is expressed that changes. The way lovers (as in a sexual relationship) express love twards each other is different from the way a parent expresses his or her love for the children etc. Same underlying love but a different expression of it.
Order now! You receive the following free gift:
It's not possible to fall into love. It's entirely possible to fall into desire ro lust and from there to discover love.
2cents & L&L
Jouni
Q: How do you fall in love?
A: Let yourself.
Kiauma: You're correct in saying that the way to fall in love, as the usual expression goes, is to let go of one's self-imposed reluctrance to step over the egde-so to speak.
But I still maintain that there's a difference between discovering your love and the usual falling metaphor. The latter implies an uncontrolled and blind process that more often than not is caused by something on the physical level of things.
I'm not saying that is a bad thing as long as one doesn't become lost in it.
Love needs attention. Without mindfulness it becomes clouded and gets confused with the everyday humdrum sentiments and slowly but surely becomes a thing that is taken for granted.
This actually parallels the much disputed "Love is the Law. Love under Will." Love needs to be a conscious state of affairs. It's that important.
2cents & L&L
Jouni
Relax Jil, 'letting yourself' as stated is a willful act. [;)]
Come on, let a guy work up a good panic for once [:D]
You are, of course, correct.
2cents & L&L
Jouni
I feel the love! [^]
I also feel this guy's ideas are very good:
http://www.zukav.com/
quote:
Originally posted by jilola
After a moment of introspection and a lot of meditation something I feel is profound came to me. You can't deserve or earn love. There's nothing you can do to earn it. You can only receive it when it's freely given. Conversely you should give your love freely and without the expectation of a reward. Trite huh?
Jouni,
If only we could remember this instead of holding people accountable for our feelings, I beleive we'd be 95% of the way there. The problem is as you stated, we expect things in return, forgetting that it is a joy just to give it... We also forget the Universal laws that whatever you give you also receive. If we give love without strings, it will come back to us tenfold... without strings. Perhaps not from the object of our adoration, however, it will come back none the less.
Love, Love, Love... Love is all there is.
Kerri
Okay, jilola, I've got a question for you pertaining to love and sex (not to bring the conversation "down" at all)...
Most people will probably disagree with me on this subject, I bet, but I'm wondering where the connection is between sex and love. I don't equate the two. As a matter of fact, I see sex as a basic primitive instinct (whether it be for the need of physical attention or procreation). How in the heck did people equate love and sex??
I wonder how often the equation lends itself to sexual dysfunction (mental not physical) in and outside of marriage.
By the way, this is a great conversation.
Sex is one possible way of physically manifesting Love.
Sex can arise out of Love but Love can't arise from sex.
Now someone is bound to disagree and point out that two people can find love after a period of mechanical sex and in a sense they'd be right. But the Love didn't arise form the sex but from the closeness and time spent together and therefore the increased understanding and intimacy between the two persons.
People have confused Love and sex to be the same as both cause similar sensations of bliss and peace. But in the case of sex it only lasts a few moments and once worn off a person craves to experience it again. And again... which often leads people to become addicted to sex or to feeling that their relationship is declining as the sensation of the sexual bliss decreases. Think about building a tolerance to a drug and you'll see the mechanism. The usual level of activity isnät fulfilling anymore but the cause isn't apparent so people think something is wrong with the relationship.
Sex, or rather the drive for it, is both an instinct and a reflection (albeit often subconscious) expression of Love.
My apologies if the above is a bit disjointed;I wrote it at work.
2cents &L&L
jouni
jilola, I completely agree with you on all levels. What you wrote made a lot of sense to me.
Don't get me wrong though, I think sex is an important aspect of a relationship for various reasons. The waning and waxing quality of it in a long term relationship is concerning at times but it certainly doesn't define love or my relationship. I do think sex can be an expression of love if one chooses to make it so because of it's level of intimacy.
Thanks for your input!
D
Sex in important to some and less important to others.
Sometimes there's more of it, sometimes it's better than other times.
All that isn't really an indication of Love in a relationship and to judge Love by the amount or quality of sex is a sure way to find trouble in one's relationship.
2cents & L&L
jouni
I hope that it is oakaley dokeley to to quote from books on here, but in Swami Satyananda Saraswati's "Kundalini Tantra":
"Energy at different levels is known by different names. At the highest level it is called spiritual experience. On the emotional level it is known as love. On the physical level it is known as sex, and at the lowest level it is known as avidya or ignorance. So therefore, when you talk about sex, you must understand that it is only a particular formation of energy. Just as curd, butter, and cheese are different formations of the on thing -- milk, energy has differnet manifestations. Matter is the grossest manifestation of energy; in the ultimate state, matter is energy. Therefore, energy and matter are intra-convertible. A thought is an object and an object is a thought. This body is consciousness and consciousness has become this body. In the same way that you understand this, you have to reanalyze and redefine sexual awareness.
The rishis say that the same energy which flows through passion, when channelled, manifests as devotion. Channel this same energy again and it manifests as spiritual experience. That is why spiritual aspirants love God in various manifestations. Some picture him as a father, a mother, a child, a friend, husband or lover. IN this way, they can sublimate the form of their emotional energy and even transform the primal energy into a divine experience."
I'm not quite certain I can completely agree with the good Swami.
The thing that one reading these texts must bear in mind is that they speak in the voice of narrating the state of their perceived reality.
In the case of Swami here says for example
quote:
The rishis say that the same energy which flows through passion, when channelled, manifests as devotion
which is correct in his reality. But as we can all see in our own realities this is not always so. More often than not this passion does not result on devotion for your everdya Joe and Jill.
The difference between most of us and the good Swami is that he has chosen it to be thus and accepted it as the basisi for his perception of the reality.
We can do the same but it's not easy as we undoubtedly have all experienced.
2cents & L&L
jouni
I find if you do things for other people ( kind things ) you recieve a kind of love or just a satisfaction in doing it because little things like a smile or saying hi to someone as you walk by goes a long way. That one smile effects everyone that person meets that day to some degree. At least thats how I like to look at it. In deciding to ignore someone as they walked by and said hi could effect more than one person negetivly depending on how that person took things. That person could think i'm unworthy of acceptance and carry on in a bad mood or have low self asteem throughout the day...or they could just smile and not think twice about it
I feel that being positive in general helps generate positive energy from others, in the sense that you bring out the best in people. Like attracts like. I do my best and try to smile all time, make people laugh and build them up. If more people did that the world would be a better place. [:D]
quote:
Originally posted by Kodemaster
I feel that being positive in general helps generate positive energy from others, in the sense that you bring out the best in people. Like attracts like. I do my best and try to smile all time, make people laugh and build them up. If more people did that the world would be a better place. [:D]
Oh that's so true! A true smile supported by happy/funny feelings works like a charm! (every girl will notice I tell ya! ;))
I think the best way for 'love' to work, is when it's unconditional, I mean expecting something in exchange makes it feel dirty to me anyway!
quote:
Originally posted by runlola
What about when you smile at a guy & the nutball thinks you want him. [8D]
Then RUN LOLA RUN!!!...er I duno, guess theres nothing wrong if he thinks you like him..
How do you define love?
What is love?
One definition is: Love is the balance of all things.
quote:
Originally posted by Reality
Oh that's so true! A true smile supported by happy/funny feelings works like a charm! (every girl will notice I tell ya! ;))
Now if will work on boys, that would be great!!! [:D]
quote:
Originally posted by BlackTalon
I duno, guess theres nothing wrong if he thinks you like him..
I second that...unless he's some creepy guy that won't leave ya alone [;)]
quote:
Originally posted by runlola
What about when you smile at a guy & the nutball thinks you want him. [8D]
Something makes me think that you know how to handle this situation.....
Here's a question; I've met certain people during my life and I felt "helplesss, but to love them". The feeling was involuntary, the other person had done nothing for me at all and yet I felt closer and more kindly to them than I feel even for my own relatives. The other person isn't even attractive in a "relationship" type of way, and gender has nothing to do with it. It seems to be at a soul level.
What is this? I have my opinions, but I'm curious as to what others think.
I see people as musical notes. And sometimes you run into someone who makes a relatively harmonious musical chord with your note. I think it takes this, as well as (perhaps) past life recognition and affinity.
Otherwise, you get these relationships where people hit it off really hot in one dimension, but they annoy each other the rest of the time.
Has anyone else ever experienced one of these (the one dimensional) types of relationships? I know that I'm on my second marriage....[:I]
quote:
Originally posted by runlola
What about when you smile at a guy & the nutball thinks you want him. [8D]
Yeah I once read it goes like this.
When a guy smiles at a girl, she'il rather think: hey you look friendly.
While when a girl smiles at a guy, he rather interpret it like: she wants to have sex with me.
lol!!! [:D]
Reality[8D]
Boydster:quote:
What is this? I have my opinions, but I'm curious as to what others think.
That would be Love(tm), the original feeling not the commodity love we are used to accepting as a substitute.
The cohesive force between souls.
2cents & L&L
Jouni
Well, some souls have a closer relation as indivual reflections of the totality of existence than others. The ones we feel the spontaneous and inexplicable affinity and love are closer to our reality perspective and our existence than others.
They are, like you said, vibrating on or near the same frequency or something to that effect. The intuitive connection between you and the other person is more via the raw reality level than via the intellectual level where the commodity love comes into picture. To put in in frequency terms you both share a resonant frequency/overtone and thus it's easier to perceive the connection.
2cents & L&L
Jouni
To paraphrase the bald kid form Matrix:
"There is no special long-distance frequency detector"
I had to get that off my brain. Too funny but probably not universal comedy.
2cents & L&L
Jouni
Just to pass a seriousarysm. A brainstone?
Love is what we are imprinted not to perceive and when we acidentally do penetrate the conditioning we are left steamrolled and crocheted with pink and green daffodils by the sheer enormity of the realization.
We then promptly resort to fleeing the scene of love and reason like bugger to explain it away without having to admit there is something more to love beyond mere hydraulics and prenuptial agreements.
2cents & L&L
Jouni
I am the lover
openly trusting you,
Fear,
faithfully accepting your Self,
Intolerant.
I am the lover
drinking the burning sand
of your narrow perspectives
and making love
to the consuming darkness
of your egoistic needs.
I am the lover
dancing in the pastoral softness
of the meadow of the winds of harmony
under the sun of illumination
through the grasses of affection
and the waters of understanding
- where we grow.
I am the lover
lightheartedly making music
from his flute
as the wolves
try to tear him to bits
to feed their hunger.
Thus is the nature of love
Thus is the nature of the wolf
If only beasts could dance...
Kiauma: Nice one. Original or borrowed?
Runlola: Yep, that's what I meant. But is the mind pulling back you or something you've been imprinted with?
Love is a frightening proposition.
2cents & L&L
Jouni
Original, though several years old.
I thought it appropriate.
An interesting rendering of the topic. There seems to be more between the lines than on the lines.
2cents & L&L
Jouni
Runlola: Oh yeah, babby yeah. You are the one who decides what love is and (w)ho(w) to love!
Not the society, not other people.
2cents & L&L
Jouni
Doesn't there. [:)]
I think I'll add a line...
quote:
Originally posted by jilola
Well, some souls have a closer relation as indivual reflections of the totality of existence than others. The ones we feel the spontaneous and inexplicable affinity and love are closer to our reality perspective and our existence than others.
Jouni,
I think the more I'm growing, the greater my personal experience of Love is wanting to be expressed. There are a few men in my life who I have a great affinity for. Each of them has very similar qualities that I admire and expresses themselves in a similar manner, from similar points of view or seemingly similar observations of reality. I love each of them tremendously and would love to say we are on the same wavelength, yet, I feel that in a way, they are each more in touch with who they really are than I am. I am striving to know who I really am, yet do not feel I have much to offer any of them. However, each of them willingly and joyfully gives their affection to me in their own way, through feelings or words and makes me feel as if I am also gifting them something in return.
Today, I caught myself off guard as during fellowship after church (eating) my minister came up behind me and placing his hand on my back, leaned over my shoulder to see what was on the food table. I spontaneously gave him a kiss on the cheek and kind of caught
myself off guard. It was so quick but such an authentic and natural response. I have a great affinity for him, yet this is just a feeling and has never been expressed or acknowledged between the two of us and I feel it was just my soul seeking expression and the opportunity presented itself and it happened before I had time to think.
Now back to Runlola I think the Unconditional portion of love is that ultimately
if we were living as authentic unconditional expressions of love, these types of things would not take us off guard. They would be natural and expressed regularly. However, because we have imposed so many limitations and conditions on our love, how to express it, to whom, under what circumstance, when, etc, etc... we shame ourselves when we authentically express love by kissing someone on the cheek. We are afraid of "impropriety" and protocol and what people will think and will they take it the wrong way and I've commited myself to this one and you've commited yourself to that one, etc, etc. We've placed so many "conditions" on our love that we make
ourselves feel unsafe because we're so worried about what others will think of us. (as you've already stated in far fewer words)
I don't really remember what my original point was so I'll stop now [:D]
Kerri
Love is Love and seeks expression in whatever form that expression feels most natural. It really has nothing to do with "physical" love... you can be physical with someone, have a "great sex life" even and not feel Love for them. If one is not a "touchy feely" person, there's nothing wrong with that as long as that person is expressing themselves in their most natural form. If on the other hand, one is trying to restrain their natural form of expression because of some preconceived notions about propriety and has an urge to express themselves by giving someone a hug or kiss but are merely practicing self restraint, then they are then not living true to themselves.
Jouni I remembered my point in the last post. Are you saying that the "affinity and love that is closer to our reality perspective." is a person who is basically at the same level of evolution? Like I said before, I feel I have a great connection with many yet, I feel they have much to show me so I would say they resonate at a slightly higher "reality perspective" than I do. Is this then where I'm heading and not where I am? Or am I slightly blinded from my own contribution and we resonate at basically the same "reality perspective"... perhaps I just don't know my own gifts to them?
Kerri
quote:
I don't think you can have a great sex life without love but that's just my opinion.
I personally agree with your assessment but it depends upon your definition of great sex life... which is why it was in quotes. To many, having lots of sex is considered a "great sex life" but it again, depends upon your perception. I'm talking about when it's purely physical... then there may be lots of sex, but no real sharing and intimacy. If one is not in touch with their emotional/spiritual side, lots of sex can be the equivalent to a great sex life... but the physical may be the only part that is valued in circumstances like these (the conquest so to speak.) In which case, the person(s) would not know what great sex is so you are of course right.
Kerri
Lighthouse:I think you mean this:
quote:
The ones we feel the spontaneous and inexplicable affinity and love are closer to our reality perspective and our existence than others.
What I mean is that those we have what some call a life contract (an agreement to provide and receive something to/form each ther during a shared lifetime) trigger a spontaneous feeling of Love and affection. The feeling just
is there.
2cents & L&L
Jouni
Here's a thought that came to me the other day.
It sprung from thinking about the hippie movement and the idea of free love.
True to myself I initially I cast the idea as a slogan "Love is free, it's sex that costs."
After a moment of introspection and a lot of meditation something I feel is profound came to me. You can't deserve or earn love. There's nothing you can do to earn it. You can only receive it when it's freely given. Conversely you should give your love freely and without the expectation of a reward. Trite huh?
But when you think about love earned there's always the notion of obligation. "I did this and that and now you gotta love me."
Along the same train of thought, separating love from any exchange of favours or obligation frees it from any constraint of time, place or physical proximity. Love goes on even when you're not with the one you love or even if you can't stahd to be with the one you love.
There is, after all, only one ind of love but several ways of expressing it.
2cents & L&L
jouni