Is anyone happy for the suicides?

[Telos]

Am I happy for suicides?? I don't know, it depends on their fate after death.

I suppose that's the intelligent answer. My question is perceptively vacuous.

[Frank]

Hi:

To my mind, the problem here is in the original question. Could any thinking, feeling, compassionate human-being feel HAPPY for someone who has gone through the mental trauma that let to their self-inflicted demise?

I just think not.

Happiness is the wrong word, IMO. Compassion, yes, but happiness? I have worked with these people and have empathised with their pain too often to think it is something I should feel happy about.

Yours,
Frank

[Nay]

Nay, thank you so much for sharing your story. I applaud your courage.

Please criticize me appropriately for I do not intend to trivialize the complexities of your emotional life, nor do I intend to press the question on you. But certrainly your stepmother suffered in a cataclysmic way, hating herself and hating those who reminded her of her weakness, and hating life. And she lived and died so pitifully, so low and disgustingly powerless.

Are you happy for her?

Forgive me if this is difficult topic. I'm not trying to empahsize an ideology or a view point... I just want to know if there are others who are happy. Or serene, even.

Am I happy for her now, you mean?  IMO, I think she has to come back and try once again to learn the lessons that she needed to learn, perhaps she did learn some but she should have stuck it out.   Personally I think killing onself is a selfish and cowardly act.   And I'm pretty sure she figured that out right away..

She was a mean and hateful person and did things on purpose to cause pain to others... I guess I'm indifferent for her happiness, if that makes sense.  

Nay

[Telos]

Frank, I am just happy that they've reached their end, at least for this trip through the cosmos. As you may infer from my name, I'm somewhat passionate about discovering ends which makes something complete, unified, and whole. I am happy for the completeness of their lifetime, regardless of where it leads. This nominal if narrow sense of "completeness" is tangible and consistent hope of a much larger completeness.

And I know I am introducing some philosophical bias here... Thank you to you and all the contributors of this thread for helping me understand my own question.

[Frank]

This nominal if narrow sense of "completeness" is a tangible and consistent hope of a much larger completeness.

Hmm, that sentence got me thinking.

I appreciate your direction.

Yours,
Frank

[gdo]

I once heard that suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem.  

I, for one, am not 'happy' at this permanent solution, for anyone.  And then also I am not happy for the artificially extending or prolonging the misery of a terminally ill person.

[JKK]

I guess it all depends on your morals and beliefs in the after life

I think it also depends on what you believe thoughts really are...if you can't escape them now who is to say you won't be trapped with them as you move on..maybe that is the real hell

All in all I'd say to commit suicide over a negative thoughts in your mind that are eating at you is wrong, but to do it in a no-other-choice situation, or if they are 'looking' for better things thanks to the current world we live in, and can do it with a pure heart, then I think it is ok

[Nay]

I'm curious, how many of you whom have commented on this thread have had a close experience with suicide?  For instance...someone you knew more than casually that had killed themselves?

I don't want to say that your feelings are null and void, but it really is hard to put yourself in those shoes....they're quite big.  Speculation on what you think your feelings on the subject would be are a far cry from how you would actually act....or feel.

Just saying,
Nay

[Telos]

I really didn't want this thread to be a discussion on when suicide is "okay" or not, but because of my ambiguity I supposed I asked for it. I wanted to focus to be on us, the survivors, and how we deal with it. Thank you Nay, for asking this question.

I actually know very few people more than casually. Part of it is because all the people I know end up moving away, going to different schools and different lives, or I moved away and went to a different school and a different life, etc. But I know, without speculating one bit, that if someone close to me committed suicide, it would only propel me to look for more happiness and beauty in the world. It would only force me with the ineluctable decision to either be happy or sad for them - and I would do my best to choose to be happy.

[Tom]

My uncle fell off a cliff while on a camping trip. He had been drinking and the weather was bad. He just stepped over that fence to get a better view, and he slipped. His fiancee found him. He had just gotten a promotion at work and he was going to be married. They went out to celebrate. I was young enough at the time to actually believe it happened the way my parents said it did.

[Frank]

Nay:

Yes, very close experience. She was a youngster, female, boyfriend left her and her world fell apart. She died in my arms as I heard the ambulance arriving. Something I will never forget. Still got the whacking great scar on my inner forearm from punching my fist through the side window to get the front door open. Tore my inner forearm in half. 20 years later I still remember it like it was yesterday.

Yours,
Frank

[gdo]

Direct experience? Yes! more than once.  Had a friend that suicided.  Also took a loaded and cocked 9mm pistol out someones hand.  Young people.

Now if I was terminally ill and new physical death was near, I would reject any type of extenstion efforts, not allow to be  plugged in, but that is different.

[Kazbadan]

Telos, answering to your question: people laugh at suicidal guys because:
1) thats an emotional way to deal with the situation. Suicidal its hard to accept, so a natural response its laugh at that. Humour (even black humour) its a way to deal with things.

2) thats the Darwin natural evolution. People dont give to much attention to suicidal dudes because they are weak (in the view of the people that laugh at them). If they are weak (not in my view) they must get out of this world (again, not my speech) because they are not useful. Like any other animal, humans try to raise and give attention only to the best of the best. Every body worships Angelina Jolie and Brad Pitt. Why? BEcause they are good looking and that = good genes = better humans with more capabilities to survive.

No one worships suicidal guys for the opposite reason.

Unforunatly that the way things work in this western world.

People shoould give more attention to the ones suffering in silence. One word of wisdom, one friendly touch, sometimes the people (suicidal) just need that and no one gives it.

[Nay]

I really didn't want this thread to be a discussion on when suicide is "okay" or not, but because of my ambiguity I supposed I asked for it. I wanted to focus to be on us, the survivors, and how we deal with it. Thank you Nay, for asking this question.

I actually know very few people more than casually. Part of it is because all the people I know end up moving away, going to different schools and different lives, or I moved away and went to a different school and a different life, etc. But I know, without speculating one bit, that if someone close to me committed suicide, it would only propel me to look for more happiness and beauty in the world. It would only force me with the ineluctable decision to either be happy or sad for them - and I would do my best to choose to be happy.

Your welcome Telos.  Seems weird to say you're welcome on such a subject and I don't want to lessen anything, but you are welcome non the less.

I understand what you are saying about caring about what the person was thinking, feeling or going thru before they did the deed.  Yet, I suppose there are different outlooks on it...as it is with most things.

For instance... if my husband decided to leave his family because of whatever hardship he was dealing with and couldn't handle, I would be ticked!  I would wonder what the heck it was that we did to cause him to think he no longer could or wanted to stay here.  

Of course that comes with the line of knowing...eh, ok.... at least thinking that he was perfectly fine.  There are sooooo many different scenarios to this particular upset, that there is no way to pigeon hole it at all.  You just can't....

Of course, all my opinion..aka, IMO.  Just had to add that for the fellow member whom asked what IMO means.  I'm still learning new internet slang.. ha!

Nay

[Nay]

My uncle fell off a cliff while on a camping trip. He had been drinking and the weather was bad. He just stepped over that fence to get a better view, and he slipped. His fiancee found him. He had just gotten a promotion at work and he was going to be married. They went out to celebrate. I was young enough at the time to actually believe it happened the way my parents said it did.

I'm sorry to hear this Tom.   However, are you saying he did it on purpose?  Did he want to end his life, or just had one of those bad decision days? (Drinking and climbing on high places)  Do you suspect foul play?  

I'm giggling a bit..ONLY because I have this Sherlock Holmes mentality, not because of a morbid sense of humor.   Ask any of the mods..lol..

It is a wild thing when you are told one thing, yet your instincts/gut feeling, tells you something else.  

Nay

[Nay]

Nay:

Yes, very close experience. She was a youngster, female, boyfriend left her and her world fell apart. She died in my arms as I heard the ambulance arriving. Something I will never forget. Still got the whacking great scar on my inner forearm from punching my fist through the side window to get the front door open. Tore my inner forearm in half. 20 years later I still remember it like it was yesterday.

Yours,
Frank

That is intense to say the least.  Holding someone while they die is an experience that is either embraced or shunned..   Do you think you took something from it though?  Did it make you see life...or death, differently?

Take Care,
Nay

[Nay]

Direct experience? Yes! more than once.  Had a friend that suicided.  Also took a loaded and cocked 9mm pistol out someones hand.  Young people.

Now if I was terminally ill and new physical death was near, I would reject any type of extenstion efforts, not allow to be  plugged in, but that is different.

So your friend embraced life as well?  I get the feeling that that was one thing he always did.  He felt more for others than himself...  Lots of people feel that way and it is a shame!  

Alot of us are always feeling like we're not being heard, felt, or understood correctly.  And then turn around and beat ourselves up about it...LOL...that is crazy.

About the terminally ill......hmm...yeah, I have to say I don't want to be hooked up to machines to keep me alive.   Yet, I wouldn't want to leave my family hurting so I would hang on as long as I could, thus causing their pain even greater by having to watch me die slowly.  That sucks for them and me both..  How does one make that decision?   I think I'll leave that for if or when I have to make it.  And hope I die in my sleep.  Ahhh...the way to go.  Everyone is very calm when a loved one dies in their sleep, right?

Nay

[fliesatnite]

Hi All,

I've been reading these replies with much interest, and everyone here has a point to ponder in one fashion or another. As it is a tough subject to broach.

To answer the original question....  I don't rejoice when someone commits suicide, I do however understand the need or want to 'be done' with their life, as I'm sure others here can as well.  Life is so incredibly hard at times.

I have personally known people who've committed suicide, and I have personally known a couple of people that have killed another person... (but that's another thread).  The bottom line with suicide is that I genuinely feel sad for them that they feel they have no other option other than to take their own lives.  

I believe in re-incarnation and karma, so for me suicide is not a realistic option.  When I hear of people taking there own lives, I do not rejoice, my soul is sad for them.  

However... a little off topic perhaps.... I do rejoice (on the inside) when people pass on, but not by their own hand.  

Fliesatnite

[AndrewTheSinger]

Maybe I have a twisted view on this but I feel like I need to live for them. Just continue for them something they could not, see and feel what they didn't. Unlike 'natural' deaths, suicide reinforces me the idea that a life is something to be experienced in it's fullest form, both pain and bliss, because all the petty struggles go away. And if I can't take it anymore then maybe someone will do it for me.