Got a church pension?

[Spirit_k9]

Very good DjM []

You pretty much pinned the tail on the donkey there, and I think you could have gone quite farther actually. I won't add to what you've written, but it sure is a good start.

Now, if you want the average producee from American skool systems of late to understand it, you're going to have to dumb it down.....waaaaaaaayyyyy down. [xx(]

[RJA]

Well put DjM.

I recently read "Fast Food Nation" which describes how fast food has transformed our culture over the last half-century.  And although it was clear that the entire process was insidious it was also clear that it was a manifestation of our values, - i.e. our societal values gradually made real.  We wanted cheap, convenient and tasty - and we got it.  But we close our eyes to the downside - the labor abuses, unhealthy effects of eating it, poor treatment of animals, etc.

What you describe is similar I think.  We (at least Americans) value things that are superficial and materialistic and over time our values shape the institutions around us, - governments, schools, churches, etc. so that they parrot back to us what we really want to hear.  Be a productive citizen, drive a nice SUV, don't think too deeply, don't ponder things, don't color outside of the lines - just go with the program and we'll all be happy.  And don't worry about spiritual development, we've got you covered - just pick from among any of these nice, innocuous churches and you'll go to Heaven when you die.

[Spirit_k9]

I think it's worse than that actually. Everywhere you look all you see is people striving toward lemming-hood, wether it be religion, politics,  television, or even fast food.

....and where do lemmings usually end up?

[DjM]

quote:Originally posted by Spirit_k9

Very good DjM []
Now, if you want the average producee from American skool systems of late to understand it, you're going to have to dumb it down.....waaaaaaaayyyyy down. [xx(]

Point. [)]

[DjM]

quote:Originally posted by RJA

Well put DjM.

I recently read "Fast Food Nation" which describes how fast food has transformed our culture over the last half-century.  And although it was clear that the entire process was insidious it was also clear that it was a manifestation of our values, - i.e. our societal values gradually made real.  We wanted cheap, convenient and tasty - and we got it.  But we close our eyes to the downside - the labor abuses, unhealthy effects of eating it, poor treatment of animals, etc.

What you describe is similar I think.  We (at least Americans) value things that are superficial and materialistic and over time our values shape the institutions around us, - governments, schools, churches, etc. so that they parrot back to us what we really want to hear.  Be a productive citizen, drive a nice SUV, don't think too deeply, don't ponder things, don't color outside of the lines - just go with the program and we'll all be happy.  And don't worry about spiritual development, we've got you covered - just pick from among any of these nice, innocuous churches and you'll go to Heaven when you die.

I concur.  In fact, we have been in agreement on a few other posts.  Kindred spirits? []

[DjM]

quote:Originally posted by Spirit_k9

I think it's worse than that actually. Everywhere you look all you see is people striving toward lemming-hood, wether it be religion, politics,  television, or even fast food.

....and where do lemmings usually end up?

They stay behind in evoltion.  [:O]

A monkey is actually a human being who stayed back in evolution and NOT and advanced animal.  There are those who keep up with evolution and those who do not.  By telling people what they want to hear, one can sell anything!  Add some flattery, and they'll be back for more...[B)]

[RJA]

quote:Originally posted by DjM

Originally posted by RJA

I concur.  In fact, we have been in agreement on a few other posts.  Kindred spirits? []

Apparently.  I only discovered this site a week ago or so, but I've enjoyed your posts and am generally impressed with the thoughtfulness of most of the posters out here. It's been very enjoyable. []

[DjM]

People are citizens.You are who you are in an abstract context.  This view is essentially Roman, as is everything of this sort existing in ordinary life.  Our education is essentially dealt with by the state, which has already become very abstract, but will become much more so under socialist influence.  People are not educated today to take their place in the world as human beings but to have a job in the service of the state, and to be slotted in there.  The state lays claim to our young people- not immediately, for then they are too unpolished, so it leaves them temporarily to their parents.  But later on it reaches out with its tentacles and trains them to fit its requirements, until it is sure that it has gotten hold of them!  It covers their consumer needs, gives them all that is alotted to them, and gives them a pension.  One has only to hear how much it means to a person when they can assure themselves that in addition to employment for which one is paid, one will also get a pension!  That means a great deal and chains people to the abstract state and even affects their whole outlook.  Here, too, the Roman attitude has taken hold of the rest of a person's life.  If you tell someone today: "If you do not want to miss out on immortality then you MUST activate your soul energies so that you yourself can pass as an active soul through the gates of death"- they will not understand you.  The status quo has got them so thoroughly out of the habit of applying their understanding to such matters. [:O]  Instead, one has been told that one need only believe in Christ and in what the state does.  So one knows that, first of all, the state will take care of one's needs, and when one has worked long enough the state will give one a pension. [)]

The church goes a step further; it offers a person, after their death, a pension for their soul, so that one does not need to work on one's soul during life nor do anything one's self when one's soul passes through the gates of death. [}:)]

Unless we shall understand the spiritual foundation of things, we shall get nowhere.  Everything depends on human beings finding the strength and courage today to see into the spiritual world. [^]  We are at the beginning of a hard struggle in which all the instincts will be stirred up that arise from the one half truth that the life of the economy is the only reality and everything belonging to the soul and spirit is ideology, and from the other half truth that the element of soul and spirit is the only reality and the whole external world is ideology, maya.  These contradictions will let loose such instincts in human nature that for long ages, spiritual battles will rage such as people cannot imagine today.  We should know this.  And we should also know that we have to raise ourselves to a vision of the spiritual world as we conceive of it, one that is in keeping with the ethos of time.

The present time, out of its very nature, is asking this of us.  We must respond. []