Gurus, Teachers, Priests/Priestesses, etc.

[Lucius]

Interesting topic, Tisha.

Having been both a student and a teacher, I think an important aspect is that much more is being learned than just the words over the top, the material or whatever.

Indeed, that's probably the least of it.

I would also say that the most is learned when a really deep and profound relationship exists between both, AND when the teacher is open to gifts and learnings from the student/s and doesn't consider the exchange a one-way-street which consists in pouring their blessings from the top down into some empty vessel.

Few good role models exist. This is probably because people have such severe problems with any form of relationship, and the teacher/student one is just one of the many examples where things go horribly wrong most of the time - LOL.

L.

[fredhedd]

where do you look to find a teacher?

[Lucius]

A google search on the topic of interest?

Followed by a shortlist which can then be tackled with a pendulum?

LOL

L.

[Lucius]

quote:Originally posted by Tisha:

Sexual involvement with a teacher could be positive OR negative - or both!

What do you think?



Tisha

"As Above, So Below"

Ah I just could not resist this one ...

I met a "teacher" once who regularly slept with their students.

When questioned upon this, they said, "Well if I can't sleep with my students, who should I be sleeping with? My friends? My family? Total strangers?"

It's a thought ...

L.

[kakkarot]

for the sex, as long as it's consentual (and not, for instance, a matter of pressure or manipulation), does it matter?

i choose life, experience, and wisdom and three of my greatest teachers. of course long-term (i'd hope for the life one[]), both intense and lukewarm, and both positive and negative. what better way could it be? to learn merely of the positive would create a serious weakness when trying to deal with negative issues, and if only dealing with the intense how would one know to act in rather mellow situations?

the proper role? well, i guess my opinion is that it depends on what the student is looking for. of course, the person should be knowledgeable in the ways of spiritual matters. whether they themselves are spiritual or not may not matter. they should be wise enough to be able to understand how to properly teach, and to pass on their knowledge.

and certainly should have a strong enough backbone that they can tell a person that evil is evil (or that any absolute is an absolute), and it is useless (morally) to dress it up differently. i find that too many people today are too weak minded to be able to make such a strong conviction, but i think it important for a teacher to be able to have a strong conviction where neccessary, and be open and flowing when neccessary. obviously this must mean the teacher should be wise enough to know when each is appropriate.

pitfalls to avoid: trusting another fallible human too much is the weakness of many a human. next, what happens, when using another as a role model, when you surpass them, or outgrow them? would you believe that such a thing is possible, or would you in your 'spirituality' tell yourself that surely you can't have become more spiritually minded than another? it is hard to be humble enough to admit it without being arrogant enough to relish the achievement.

pride is too strong a thing, and should definately be one of the first areas dealt with, i think.

~kakkarot

[Moonchild]

Wow, these are hard questions to answer because IMO the teacher-student relationship, like any other, is ultimately personal and not always clearly defined.

I think the role of a teacher should be to help you reach your own potential, like a coach.  I don't believe a teacher can give you something you don't already have.  As cliché as it sounds, I've found it to be true time and again.  Sure, a teacher can impart knowledge, but so can a book.  A teacher has to help you assimilate this knowledge and use it practically in everyday life.  In short, the teacher should have traversed the path, and therefore be able to help you in your progress.

You and others have said it, but the pitfall of over-attachment is worth repeating.  People have a tendency to put their teachers on a pedestal, and to even deify them.  This, in my opinion, is destructive.  And because of this, sexual involvement can be a big problem, especially if it interferes with the learning process, and worse, causes sexual competition or resentment among other students.  In a formal student-teacher relationship, it's better to be as unattached as possible.  That way if the teacher turns out to be a dud, or worse, the student will see a potentially damaging situation sooner and have no problems walking away.  The tricky thing is that, as a student, one may have to lower their guard to learn certain things, and that requires trust and commitment to the path.  But everyone has his or her limits and boundaries, and that's a personal call.  I think it helps if the teacher and student are both grounded in some type of belief system, and therefore have similar expectations for proper behavior.

But the student-teacher relationship does not have to always be strictly defined as such.  It could be one aspect of a relationship, friendship, or whatever.  And pretty much anything goes there, I guess.  As I joke with my friends, my latest spiritual master is my cat [)]

[Celeste]

IMHO,the teacher/student relationship is a sacred one. If a spiritual teacher is having sex with their students they don't carry any true spiritual authority and reveal themselves to be completely lacking in morale character. They are only fooling themselves and so are the students. Entangling yourself with these types of characters can be extremely detrimental to your spiritual progress.
 It is wise to test any would be teacher. Their life will soon reveal the path they are on. True Spiritual teachers are extremely few and far between. Celeste

[James S]

Hi Tisha,

My involvement with spiritual "teachers" (I use word loosely) to date has not been good. This may be a reflection of the christian churches that spawned these teachers, but their teachings, regardless of their claimed doctorine, has ever been overly tainted by self interest. The depth of their teachings usually depended on the depth of your purse.

I would dearly love to find a teacher who could help guide me in the ways of the goddess I dearly love, as I often find it difficult to see the right direction, or keep the motivation to continue growing.

I am sceptical of using the internet to seek such a person as I find that this medium tends to attract far more profits than prophets.

James.

[DjM]

Tisha,

The key to learning in this arena is INTEREST, WONDER, and AMAZEMENT.  When one is filled with these attributes, one does not require a teacher.

Finding a teacher who understands that the function is to GIVE what they have and NOT tell you what they know, is sometimes more challenging than the subject matter.

As long as you are interested in something; wonder about it; and are amazed at what you are assimilating- you'll learn!  Having a balanced plan (i.e. subject matter, time, etc...) is key to continuous progress.

It's a lot like playing a musical instrument...at first you can't play anything, so you just practice what you know with the knowledge that you're doing it.  The more you practice; the better you get.

I hope this helps.

[Adrian]

Greetings James_S!

quote:Originally posted by James S

Hi Tisha,

My involvement with spiritual "teachers" (I use word loosely) to date has not been good. This may be a reflection of the christian churches that spawned these teachers, but their teachings, regardless of their claimed doctorine, has ever been overly tainted by self interest. The depth of their teachings usually depended on the depth of your purse.

How right you are! I have said time and again in these forums that money, the ultimate symbol of the very materialism that is a nemesis of mankind, should never be a barrier to Spiritual growth. Indeed, often, those that are most in need of such growth and of the truth and realities, and of Spiritual guidance, are those least able to afford it. Spiritual growth and truth should never be means tested.

The true teachers teach out of the greatest love for the human race, and out of a burning and unselfish desire to see each and every person take the true path back to our creator - and they give everything they can offer without thought of recognition or reward. Consequently, anyone who puts a price tag on these matters is not a true teacher, not just because of the price tag, but because they have demonstrated by seeking to impose a price that they are not true teachers at all, but merely opportunists seeking to take advantage.

"When the student is ready, the teacher will appear".

With best regards,

Adrian.

[James S]

Thanks for your response Adrian.

I have no objection to parting with money now and then for material that people produce as a way of passing their knowledge on where they have expenses in doing so. That seems fair, as I am buying from them a "tool of the trade" that they have made. But I agree very much with your statements. Money and true spiritual guidance should be mutually exclusive.

"When the student is ready, the teacher will appear".

- I like that! It gives me hope that I'm not destined to have to try and work through things without guidance.

James.

[Adrian]

Greetings James_S

quote:Originally posted by James S
"When the student is ready, the teacher will appear".
- I like that! It gives me hope that I'm not destined to have to try and work through things without guidance.

You (and everyone else on the path) are never without guidance, the fact that you are involved in AP and related matters is testimony to that. What might not be so obvious is the form in which you receive that guidance. Most of the best and very greatest teachers are not incarnate on the Earth, but you will still receive whatever you are ready and need to receive at any particular moment in your development. Very often you will receive the teachings and/or answers in a very enigmatic way, and sometimes much more directly.

Once you have set foot on the true path as yourself, and many others here have, you can be assured that providing you follow the path diligently and with humility and service, the next steps on the path will always open up for you - you can be sure of that.

But with reference to the original topic - if someone comes along asking money for their services, then they are most assuredly not the teachers or guidance you are looking for.

It should also be pointed out that with regard to the ancient wisdoms, there is a difference in teaching between the Orient and the Occident. Oriental teachings are founded in places like India and Tibet and often associated with Hinduism and Buddhism, whereas the seat of the true and ancient wisdom, knowledge and mysteries for the Occident is Egypt. The very greatest Masters ever to have incarnated anywhere on Earth lived long ago in Ancient Egypt, including the Master of Masters Hermes Trismegistus.

Just keep going, and whatever you need to know and how to obtain it will open up before you.

With best regards,

Adrian.

[James S]

Thanks for the encouragement Adrian, it is much appreciated.

Funny, recent experiences support what you say completely. I often become trapped in mindsets that prevent me from seeing possibilities different from those I think I should be looking for. I do have a guide from the spirit world, but I seem to loose sight of her when I become too distracted, such as when trying to find someone who can help me get to know her better. Every now and then, like right now, I wake up to the foolishness of that idea.

It really does make sense, that the best spiritual teachers are the spirits themselves. With such teachers you avoid by default problems mentioned in this topic such as materialistic greed, or sexual involvement. The hard part is to keep on believing throught he times when their presence is not so obvious.

James.

[assia]

My view agrees with Adrian, when the student is ready, the teacher appears; and with Moonchild, that a good teacher is one who knows s/he can't give you something you don't already have.

The job of a teacher is to "lead out" that which we already have inside, not to "stuff in" their own particular brand of knowledge. So, I'd imagine the first step in recognizing (rather than finding) your teacher when you are ready is that it will be someone who respects the path you are on, knows how to listen, allows you the freedom to make your own choices, and helps you understand your mistakes when you chose poorly.

A good teacher is someone who respects and understands the importance of the student following their own path. Following someone else's path, even your teacher's, means that at the end of the road you will find them--and not yourself. And finding yourself is the real goal of all spiritual searching.

A good teacher listens and asks questions that require us to think for ourselves. They don't lecture or instruct, but willingly provide information they might have that could shed light on our own journey.

A good teacher never judges, but leads you to the place where you are capable of judging yourself accurately and honesty.

Most of all a good teacher is someone who lives the life you wish to emulate.  They walk the talk they share with you and by doing so, help you learn to walk yourself.  

My thanks to "V," my teacher, whom the above describes.

[Tisha]

Hi all!

I was wondering what everybody's experiences have been with spiritual teachers.  Short-term, long-term, lukewarm or intense, positive or negative.  What do you think the proper role of a spiritual teacher should be?  What are the pitfalls to avoid?

The benefits, of course, include learning and emotional support (sometimes).  Or even a kick in the pants just when you need it.

One obvious pitfall is getting too dependent on another person for spiritual growth.  

Sexual involvement with a teacher could be positive OR negative - or both!

What do you think?



Tisha

"As Above, So Below"