The Astral Pulse

Spiritual Development means going from A, your current state, into B, a state you consider to be more spiritual.  Can you describe state B and why you wanna become B? What would a person in State B do differently then a person in state A?

(Sorry for writing so abstract, but I tried to keep it short and clear)

I believe a person in B would not only be able to communicate across boundaries (cultural, ethnic, linguistic, academic, etc.) but also be able to advance knowledge and understanding across those boundaries.

Notice, I don't mention God, the Eight Fold Path, chakras, telekinesis, telepathy, or altered states of consciousness. But I didn't exclude them either - I feel all those things can still include themselves in the framework described above.

The best way advance knowledge across boundaries is, I think, through action and demonstration. The best way to change the world is to actually be a part of it, and actually affect it.

Meditation, energy work, exploring your dreams, and feeling transcended is the "baby's crib" of spirituality. All those things are fine and valuable, but someday you have to get out of the crib.

I want to be in state B because I want to get out of the crib. :)

In my opinion the spiritually advanced person would see the deeper side of things instead of accepting the common and materialistic interpretation. Instead of accepting reality as they see it they would question every aspect of it to gain a broader understanding of how to interact with it. Telos summed it up quite well in his first paragraph.


Alex

Spiritually evolved is having a lot of power consistently, and will have that power for a long time.

It doesnt matter if they use it to murder and rape, only that they think what they're doing is good.



I'm not anywhere near good enough to see things like this, and dont expect to be, so I'm not going to kill anybody, but if I knew (by seeing the future or whatever way) there was a 50% (including the average error of my predictions) chance some guy was going to kill 3 people next week, but I couldnt convince anybody of that, I might kill him. 50% * 3  >  1, assuming I think all 4 people have equal value. If John was going to kill him, or I expected John to do something similar later, I might think John is worth 1.5 people, since he (on average) saved .5 people. Then if theres a 33% chance somebody was going to kill John, thats an even trade to kill that killer, so it shouldnt matter to karma or whatever you call it, if you kill him or not. Hard to calculate... but these are just examples. It doesnt have to be about killing. You are not equal to anybody else. You are worth the sum of your future experiences and effects of your actions, not what happened in the past because if you exist now or not that still happened. I'm only talking about things that happen inside of time. If you're outside of time, if there is such a thing, your past should also be considered.
Before you call me a bastard, consider this: If you could save (from death) both of 2 people who will become murderers or save someone who is researching a cure for aids, who would you save? Ok I got off topic...

I think anyone who would save the 2 future-murderers instead of the aids-researcher, and thinks its bad to cause people to die, having only the motivation that "you shouldnt trade lives" "its bad to kill people" "who am I to decide" etc, can not be spiritually evolved or is VERY confused. But then they'd have to think a person who will breed a million descendants is worth a lot more than one who will breed only a thousand descendants. I agree with neither, but there are some things that make one person worth more than an other.

I don't think it is about having power over others at all. No spiritual person would ever kill or harm anyone because they would be directly interfering with the laws of karma. The person who is not spiritually advanced reasons who he should or should not harm based on what he thinks he knows. At the point that one gains spiritual enlightenment the realization of awareness transcends any such logic.

You can be negatively advanced in spirituality only in the fact that you have attained many abilities ranging from Clairvoyance to Telepathy. The similarity between the being that has ascended to spiritual realization negatively and the being that has progressed positively is that they both possess many supernatural abilities because they are attained naturally with spiritual progress. The difference between the two is that one acts in the service of others and the other acts in the service of himself.

At the point that impartial universal truth is taken into account the dynamics of "wrong" or "right" visibly transcend any factual understanding that we have of the world at this present moment. Any action taken by someone that damages the universal aggregate of consciousness is unwholesome to his spiritual development.
We are given a soul that carries an authentic understanding of "right" and "wrong" and we are given a heart that leads us at times when ambiguity is inviting. The spiritualist who claims that killing or raping a person can be right in any context has de-evolved in the ladder of consciousness. He may have advanced spiritually as much as anybody else, but in downward direction.

The spiritually aware being knows the universe and has an awareness of his profound and inextricable connection to all and everything. The spiritually aware being knows himself. This is the first step to true spiritual evolution and real progress.


Alex

Ermm, I actually intended to post this on the Spiritual Development Forum........Could a moderator please move it there?

Nice comments guys! I value your different viewpoints. It is not so much about finding the right answer to me question but to understand how others understand Spirituality

I'll write some of my views: I think I spiritual evolved being understands in a deeper sense why we life and how things work. through his greater understanding it can make wiser decisions to help itself and other beings progress on their path. I think spiritual Development has therefore no direct correlation with any superpowers although it may be that spiritual beings naturally gain more powers cause they are supposed to play a more significant role in the universe. So, I would say a spiritual advanced being usually has supernatural abilities but NOT every being with supernatural abilities is spiritually advanced.
I don't think it comes down to a math computation were you have to calculate how much certain beings value or something. I think a spiritual advanced being knows what is the best action to take to help all beings involved to progress. There are no good and bad for them anymore

Now the question remains what the "Path" is or what I mean when I say "progress". I like the above definition cause it leaves that open but I personally have of course some things in mind although they may not be correct (How knows?)

Two things come into my mind; gain more experiences and become more happy (become more Love) I also believe that a spiritual evolved being acts out of compassion and unselfish

To sum things up I would say:
I spiritual evolved being understands Life in a very deep sense therefore it acts wise and unselfish as a helper of Life and assists others to evolve into the same direction as well

It may sound confusing to you guys, but spiritual evolution has nothing to do with other people. In fact it has no relation to being selfless, loving, compassionate towards others. Spiritual evolution is concerned with self, by the self and for the self, it is the path one must travel alone. No amount of social qualities are going to make you more spiritually evolved.
In fact others are often a hindrance to one's evolution. Not only the hateful relations but also the 'good' and loving relations come in the way of your sp. evolution. Same is true with the supernatural 'powers', they are infact a big mountain blocking your spiritual path.
Did I confuse you yet? :D

There is only one wish a spiritual person has, more and more knowledge, which gives him more and more freedom. Gradually the knowledge frees him from ignorance, from genetic programs, from crowd behavior and most importantly from the vicious cycle of suffering and joy.
As one grows spiritually, he realizes the true nature of human relations, they are just another form of Maya veiling his eyes. The reason such people become humble, selfless and compassionate is not because these qualities are a hallmark of an evolved person, but they see no point in keeping any relation to anyone, and act such for purely practical reasons.

They possess so much wisdom that issues such as material wealth, political powers, good and bad (ethics) etc become of minor importance, almost a joke. They are so free that nothing is good or nothing is bad for them, so they act as they wish. The act of forgiveness is nothing but a higher kind of indifference to them. Once you are out of material issues, it doesn't really matter who did what and for what. Only oneself is important.

Now, there are various levels of development, from initiate to masters...a gray band, and its not possible to categorize all of them under one term - spiritually evolved. So, don't waste your time comparing their qualities, try to become one instead. If you are interested I'll post the various levels and my own interpretations of them based on my own experience. :)

spritually evolved Being= genious people,like einstein,alexander the great etc =)

First Tombo posts this in Spiritual Development, it gets moved to Astral Chat, then it gets moved back to Spiritual Development, I keep losing this topic :?

I think Einstein was certainly spiritually developed; I am a big fan of his.

I am inclined to agree with your statements Psan, on many levels. However the journey within the self is not a selfless one.
We often infer our own self-image from others reactions to us and this is a mistake among many. Certainly others can be a block to spiritual progress, but this is not to say that we must be selfish.

The pursuit for wisdom must be sought alone, but cannot be completed without interactions with others. "No man is an island" so to speak. What good is the spiritual aspirant who leaves his brother behind on his quest for truth? What good is the spiritual aspirant who isolates himself from the collective consciousness?
We are all interconnected and I believe if one was sincerely endeavouring to make spiritual progress he would not aim to do it for himself only, but for humanity as a whole. When the search inward begins other individuals must not be abandoned, simply how the aspirant reacts and interacts with other individuals must change.


Alex

For me, spiritually evolved = transcendence of suffering through wisdom. I use the words "through wisdom" at the end because, great ignorance can be the reason that you are a Buddha. This type of Buddha-hood is bound to be temporary however because it has been built on a shaky foundation.

I think it would be natural for a person who reached true Buddha-hood to be a benefit to society- just his presence would be a benefit. But I believe that your spiritual intentions must first be selfish. If you are caught in the web of delusion called Maya, of how much benefit can you really be to people- it's like the blind leading the blind, going around in circles. So first, you reach your destination, then you can make a map for people to follow- this is the most efficient method.
While being a necessary part of your evolution, society, in general, will hinder your spiritual progress because of its materialistic focus- this is why it's typical for those who intend to reach great spiritual heights to largely cut themselves off from society for a time.

I must add that I started this discussion partly due to the fact that I often see people that claim to be spiritually progressed but when one takes a close look at their life's and their behaviors, one discovers that they are as "human" as ever. If somebody begs for money or if their jeans get dirty or if they have a fight with their girlfriend, , you know every day Life issues, they react not very evolved. if they get a unfriendly post reply they become offended :lol:
It sometimes seems as if they preach Water but drink wine. I believe Spirituality has very much to do with our every day Lives though.



Psan wrote:

QuoteThey possess so much wisdom that issues such as material wealth, political powers, good and bad (ethics) etc become of minor importance, almost a joke. They are so free that nothing is good or nothing is bad for them, so they act as they wish. The act of forgiveness is nothing but a higher kind of indifference to them. Once you are out of material issues, it doesn't really matter who did what and for what. Only oneself is important.

What do you mean by "Wisdom"? You say they react how they wish. What do they wish?

alexdLeannain

QuoteI think Einstein was certainly spiritually developed; I am a big fan of his.

Why do you guys think that? It sounds almost as you assume a high IQ correlates with Spirituality. Do you believe so?

QuoteI am inclined to agree with your statements Psan, on many levels. However the journey within the self is not a selfless one.

I would second that. Why is it that People Like Buddha and Jesus preach good moral conduct? I would assume that a big part of spiritual evolution has to do with the realization that we are all connected. That separation is a illusion.

Nostic

QuoteBut I believe that your spiritual intentions must first be selfish

Funny I believe pretty much the opposite. As long as we want something for ourselves as long as we want to become something we will partly block ourselves.
But of course we need good conditions for our practice and determination

Quote from: TomboSpirituality has very much to do with our every day Lives though.

I agree. Your thinking starts reflecting in your daily lives. You start behaving differently. Then you keep a low profile, when people start noticing the 'odd' behavior of yours ;)
I've seen that when some people find that you are 'good', they start using you. They will rob you right down to your last clothes. Perhaps that's why one must refuse or defend oneself, even if you find it non-spiritual.

Quote from: TomboWhat do you mean by "Wisdom"? You say they react how they wish. What do they wish?

Wisdom = The sum total or the essence of learning or knowledge one has. I didn't say react, it was 'act':D The wish can be anything, if there is any. At a stage one becomes so free that he won't need any leader to tell him what to do, no bosses, no force can bend them. In fact all the leaders and influential men turn to him for advice, if they are smart. Usually an evolved person is so humble that he wont disobey any reasonable commands, it doesn't make any difference to him at all.

QuoteIn fact all the leaders and influential men turn to him for advice, if they are smart.

Most are stupid or greedy.

QuoteUsually an evolved person is so humble that he wont disobey any reasonable commands, it doesn't make any difference to him at all.

Why should it make no difference? They can still have things they want to do, and reasonable commands like "fill out this paper before you leave" (by somebody who cant get you in trouble) waste your time that you could be using for better things. I dont comply with the reasonable commands of rabbits, monkeys, or stupid humans who cant get me in trouble.

Not just because it inconveniences me or makes me mad, but because its a stupid system and the smarter you are the more you should want to disobey it.

Well, thats what I mean by a resonable command, which is a command that doesn't come in your way of spiritual evolution. You generally avoid all commands btw. And dont command others also.

Those commands that divert you from evolution, you simply ignore. E.g "You shall only read ****** book and stay away from other knowledge". You know what to do with such laws :D

What about the command "dont smoke weed, or go to jail" or "speed limit 10" ?

Quote from: TomboWhy do you guys think that? It sounds almost as you assume a high IQ correlates with Spirituality. Do you believe so?

No, no, no. This is not what I meant when I said I admire Einstein. On the contrary many people I know with high IQs are not spiritually advanced at all. The reason I said I am a fan of his is that much of his work and reasoning is very spiritual when you look at it closely. If you really look into what he was trying to say it is exactly the same thing that many spiritualist have come to realize. He did not limit himself to the world of physics but realized many of the truths of the universe not exclusive to any particular field. His discoveries and ideas are very philosophical and spiritual in nature. Just by reading some of his quotes online you can begin to see how deep and inspirational his thinking was.


Alex

Was this boy a spiritually evolved being?

http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=18075

IMO i think so.
but to be honest i'd  prefer his IQ  over spiritually evolved ;)

Spirituality correlates with wisdom more than intelligence. If you know ever piece of information ever printed or published online and can recall it in a fraction of a second how does it make you more spiritually evolved?


Alex

Quote from: beavisWhat about the command "dont smoke weed, or go to jail" or "speed limit 10" ?

Learn to differentiate between whats good for your survival and whats not.
Then you choose it yourself and let the results speak.

Psan

QuoteI agree. Your thinking starts reflecting in your daily lives. You start behaving differently. Then you keep a low profile, when people start noticing the 'odd' behavior of yours  
I've seen that when some people find that you are 'good', they start using you. They will rob you right down to your last clothes. Perhaps that's why one must refuse or defend oneself, even if you find it non-spiritual.

No, no thats not what I meant. You are of course right in that we still need to look after us. But I believe I evolved Beiing will do that in wise way. Free of negative emotions for example.

Quote
The wish can be anything, if there is any.

Wouldn't it be wise not to have any wishes? No wishes = No Problem  :lol:

Alexd

QuoteJust by reading some of his quotes online you can begin to see how deep and inspirational his thinking was.

Yeah, I like his quotes too, just wanted to make sure that IQ ≠ Wisdome
So, no Telos, for me I don't see any reason to think he was spritual evolved, rather the opposite I would say.

Leannain

QuoteIMO i think so.
but to be honest i'd prefer his IQ over spiritually evolved  

So you rather be rather be in the postion that you shoot a bullet thru your head like he did? IQ is not everything you know, Smart People did terrible things, smart People created nuclear weapons. A lot of smart People are unhappy.
Beavis

QuoteWhat about the command "dont smoke weed, or go to jail" or "speed limit 10" ?

Spirituality can't mean, giving up commen sense. I believe that even for a evolved being, there are still rules one has to respect. What goes a round must come a round.

QuoteSo, no Telos, for me I don't see any reason to think he was spritual evolved, rather the opposite I would say.

Why? Does his mother's opinion, that he was destined for a greater existence in a different form, mean nothing? Didn't he give up material existence?

Maybe you've found your definition of spirituality, then - subjecting all or some control of your fate to other powers (imaginary or otherwise).

If he were spiritually evolved, the boy would not have killed himself.

Smart people created nuclear weapons because people in power told/forced them to.

If people in power wanted to, they could destroy all life on earth (except maybe the roaches which are immune to radiation). If a worse weapon is built, so what? They can blow up earth with the nukes, then blow it up again. What new thing is threatened by creating more powerful weapons?

But there are lots of good things that will be invented too, and thats why we need more smart people.

Course, there's that group of scientists who want to try making a micro-blackhole in a lab overseas (near Switzerland?). That idea, I find, to be the stupidest idea ever. If I can remember where I got the information about that from, I'll post it.

Quote from: WellsIf he were spiritually evolved, the boy would not have killed himself.

Why not?

Why not?

Because a higher evolved being would understand the reason they were born into a particular situation, and what lessons and experiences they came here to understand.

Killing one's self is like playing a video game and switching it off before you've completed the level. You don't gain the knowledge or experience  required to move to the next level. If a soul does not learn the lessons or gain the experiences it set out to in a particular lifetime, that soul will then return to the same or similar situation until the knowledge required has been gained. This then allows the soul to evolve.

Higher evolution really has nothing to do with power, how to goin it or use it. We already have all the power within us we could ever require to do anything we want. It's all a matter of coming into full conscious awareness of our potential, living in that potential, achieving mastery.

It's probably also worth pointing out here that a higher evolved being would no sooner take the life of another than they would themselves. The more evolved a soul becomes the more the realisation that all souls are ultimately connected - the "oneness" that you've probably heard spoken of. With realisation of "oneness" comes the realisation that to harm another is to ultimately harm one's self. The most important aspect here is one of love. The higher a soul evolves, the more it acts out of pure love for others.

As to karma, this is not the universe punishing you. The universe is completely impartial. Karma is a soul understanding that it has done something that has hindered its evolution, so it must go back and learn the lessons needed to grow past the particular situation.

my 2.001 cents worth.

Lines,
I heard about the accidental Black Hole and the Hawkings radiation too.
I couldn't help but to laugh at the idea that if they'd actually succeeded in creating a Black Hole, there'd be no point in reporting it.....there'd be no-one left alive to tell!  :)

Regards,
James.

QuoteWhy not?
Because a higher evolved being would understand the reason they were born into a particular situation, and what lessons and experiences they came here to understand.

I am not perfect. I'm not always where I am because I tried to come here. How do you know you didnt come here by accident?

QuoteHigher evolution really has nothing to do with power, how to goin it or use it. We already have all the power within us we could ever require to do anything we want. It's all a matter of coming into full conscious awareness of our potential, living in that potential, achieving mastery.

If I have all that power, why do I get tired after doing psychic things? Its not cause I think I'm tired. Something necessary to psychic things is slowly depleted. Even when I trick my mind into thinking I have a huge amount of power, it rarely demonstrates more than pushing small things across the floor. Not believing you have power can be a bottleneck to power, but when that is gone, limited energy is an other bottleneck. If you believe more, you still wont have enough energy for the amount of power you describe.

QuoteIt's probably also worth pointing out here that a higher evolved being would no sooner take the life of another than they would themselves. The more evolved a soul becomes the more the realisation that all souls are ultimately connected - the "oneness" that you've probably heard spoken of. With realisation of "oneness" comes the realisation that to harm another is to ultimately harm one's self.

Theoretically lets say theres a crazy man with a sword holding you down. He says you must cut off one of your fingers or he'll cut off your head. He ties your finger into a guillotine and hands the trigger string to you. He starts cutting off your head. Do you pull the guillotine string and cut off your finger, or get your head cut off?

Regardless of if "oneness" is true, its still better to kill 1 person to save 2 people from death, than to let the 2 die. I dont mean that should be legal to do, cause the government would use it as an excuse to kill for no reason. Assuming you dont know which people are worth more than the others Example: prostitute is worth more than murderer.

Telos

QuoteWhy? Does his mother's opinion, that he was destined for a greater existence in a different form, mean nothing? Didn't he give up material existence?

My question is: why was he born on this world then? I do ^not say that he wasnt evolved per se, it is just that I don't see reason to assume he was. Do you see them?
Usually somebody kills himself because he is unhappy, tries to run away from something, overwhelmed by problems, this, I do not consider evolved.
And by killing himself he causes pain for otheres, not good as well

QuoteMaybe you've found your definition of spirituality, then - subjecting all or some control of your fate to other powers (imaginary or otherwise).

No, no that I would consider the opposite of Sprituality. But killing oneself is a bit a harsh action of taking control I think

Lines

QuoteSmart people created nuclear weapons because people in power told/forced them to.

Usually not, I think.Some Smart People like to see how far they can push it, plus they are greedy, selfish, etc like anybody else.

QuoteBut there are lots of good things that will be invented too, and thats why we need more smart people.

I'm not against smart People! All I try to say is that IQ has very little to do with spiritual development, IMO. Smart People can be very mean and do terrible things and smart people can be very noble and do great things.

Or lets put it another way Spiritual development is a process, you evolve , IQ is by definition a static value, No Progress in IQ there is. The two things should not be mixed up.

QuoteCourse, there's that group of scientists who want to try making a micro-blackhole in a lab overseas (near Switzerland?). That idea, I find, to be the stupidest idea ever. If I can remember where I got the information about that from, I'll post it.

That would be in CERN then near Geneva. I'm Swiss, I'll keep you guys posted when I see the horizon getting dark....lol

QuoteI couldn't help but to laugh at the idea that if they'd actually succeeded in creating a Black Hole, there'd be no point in reporting it

They probably have a plan to keep things under control, the hole would probably be keept in a vaccum or something :wink:

Beavis

QuoteI am not perfect. I'm not always where I am because I tried to come here. How do you know you didnt come here by accident?

Good point, I guess we have to thrust other who say it isn't so..

QuoteIf I have all that power, why do I get tired after doing psychic things? Its not cause I think I'm tired. Something necessary to psychic things is slowly depleted. Even when I trick my mind into thinking I have a huge amount of power, it rarely demonstrates more than pushing small things across the floor. Not believing you have power can be a bottleneck to power, but when that is gone, limited energy is an other bottleneck. If you believe more, you still wont have enough energy for the amount of power you describe.

I think he meant we have a infinite potential, but we might not have access to it right now. maybe you have to evolve more before you can tap that energy? Can you really push things around? How long did you parctice?

QuoteRegardless of if "oneness" is true, its still better to kill 1 person to save 2 people from death, than to let the 2 die.

It is pretty unlikely that thuis situation will pop up. If it does I believe it may have a reason and that when you listen to your heart You'll know what to do. It is probably better to try to save both.