I believe that as we progress spiritually we will gradually shed more and more of our ego until there is no ego left and we have been absorbed completely back into the ocean of consciousness that we call God. At that point "we" as individual spirits will cease to exist having completed our journey - and having added to that ocean of consciousness a vast amount of knowledge and experience.
quote:
I believe that as we progress spiritually we will gradually shed more and more of our ego until there is no ego left and we have been absorbed completely back into the ocean of consciousness that we call God. At that point "we" as individual spirits will cease to exist having completed our journey - and having added to that ocean of consciousness a vast amount of knowledge and experience.
That's one way to look at it, and some people prefer that as the default I believe it is wether you strive for that or not. An alternative incorporates free will, and the reason we were created in the first place. We were created to learn, grow, and ultimately become independant awarenesses. This is not to say one would shun the creator, no more than you would a parent that you still love even though you've grown up and moved on to have your own life.
But in our current state we can only see so far down the line of this journey (assuming you are looking). If you fail to accomplish the task of maturing spiritually and claiming your independance through free will, I think as a defualt you once again 'merge' with spirit.... perhaps to be born once more for another go at it.
I don't plan on doing this again, I've learned that much [;)]
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Is cosmic conciousness, superconciusness and enlightment the same?
The first two I'm not sure, the third is not the same as the first two. The latter helps you reach the former two methinks.
quote:
Were does kundalini fit into all of this?
It's a part of the make-up of what we are metaphysically and energetically speaking. It's not the end result.
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Will our karma disolve and we get off the wheel of life perhaps become Avatars?
I don't subscribe to the karma stuff. Only in as far as that if you don't progress you may end up having to do it again (living) and again and again untill you finally catch on. Avatars? I dunno. There are guides, this is certain to me at least. I don't know where they come from except to say the one most outspoken in my experiences never lived in the flesh so to speak.
Hi,
In order to have any hope of answering that question, you need to clearly define what you consider "enlightenment" to be.
I believe what most people (and certainly myself) consider to be "enlightenment" is releasing enough of their attachments to the physical world that they no longer need to incarnate in physical form (although they still may choose to). I believe this is just the beginning of our evolution in the grand scheme of spiritual development. I don't think most people are even capable of imagining how much more learning and growth is possible after what we call "enlightenment".
--Soulfire
HI all,
thanks for the replies. i still would like to know if cosmic consciousness and enlightment can be considerd the same thing just different names. Meaning that you have all chakras clear, balanced and open with the crown chakra activated. If this is acheaved is there still more to develop while in the physical body.
Will kundalini be atomatically activated.
it has been said there are chakras beyond the crown. could these be the chakras that bring states such as "God consciousness" and "unity consciousness" as stated in the book trancsendal meditation.
I am no one. I am everyone. I am the only one.
Hi alpine9!
IMHO Conciousness and enlightment are two different places on the same path.
Many of the texts in here speak of enlightenment in the "grand" scheme - that we become one with the universe etc. etc.
I think, that enlightenment also comes in little packages [;)]
Sometimes you read, hear or experience something that really opens your eyes. (For instance on this forum). That moment when it "clicks" in your mind, and you say to your self "But offcourse!! ... " is IMO also enlightenment.
Then comes the process of conciousness - that means slowly integrating this new knowledge into your everyday life, integrating it into your self. (Someone would say learning to express yourself through this "new" knowledge).
This process can sometimes be extremely difficult, and other times just a walk in the park [;)] ... But the further you take this, the more consious you become.
Enlightenment is the awareness of the Cosmic Consciousness or the fact that all are one and from the same source.
So during the instant one reaches enlightenment it can be said that enlightenment and the Cosmic Consciousness are the same. But after the initial enlightenment fades the difference between the two becomes apparent and one can indeed regress from one's previous level of embracing Cosmic Consciousness.
As for karma, I believe it's the distance between one's current level of embracing the Cosmic Consciousness and actually becoming one with it. A bit like a sum of the remaining lessons in one's spiritual path.
2cents & L&L
jouni
OOOh, I think see what you mean.
So spiritual enlightment throug practice of meditation is only a glimps of the permanent state of cosmic consciousness. Is this correct? And to be in the state of permanent cosmic conciousness means to have all chakras clear, open, and balanced with the crown chakra activated?
Hmmm... enlightenment, kundalini, and getting 'off the wheel of life'?
Enlightenment - Something I wish I had, that moment of universal awareness where every atom in me cries out, "I FINALLY get it!" This is something I'm working on.
Kundalini - A friend of mine has experienced kundalini and if I might be so bold as to suggest, you better be prepared for it ahead of time. Not that it's bad, it's just a LOT more than even folks who 'should' know what they're doing are even prepared for most of the time. Quite a trip from what I've been told, and there are herbs that are supposed to help you achieve that. Or so I'm told, Fo-Ti is one of them.
"Getting off the wheel of life" - Can't help you there, I have fun and difficulty at times just trying to imagine what ALL of existence must be like, at least to be aware of it at one time. So to comtemplate knowing and being aware or and being one with all to such a level that you're given permission (either by yourself, or your greater self) to "get off the wheel of life" is something that boggles my mind. Where would one, or all (ha-ha-ha!) of you go after that?
Here's a physical depiction of it all that really helps me to put it into perspective, it's from my best friend in the universe, at least this one anyways...
http://www.catthause.com/sarada/astrald/sectionmaplabels.jpg
There is a great little book I finished reading a short time back called The Kybalion. It gives an overview of Hermetic Philosophy.
Something in the book I wanted to quote (in light of what's been posted above) is this:
"We are all on The Path - and the road leads upward ever, with frequent resting places."
Take a look at the book if you have a chance. It is an excellent read and should address all your questions.
Very best,
To Inifinity...and Beyond!
I'm not sure if im really ready for the path.
That Dark Night of the Soul sounds pretty scary.
I am noone. I am everyone. I am the only one
I'm quite lost on the Path, but I decided I'm going to keep walking. I'll get there, eventually....
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Originally posted by alpine9
That Dark Night of the Soul sounds pretty scary.
It is only as bad as you make it. The more tightly you hang on to what you have, the harder it is.
I don't really like the idea of kundalini/Nirvana. Its like ok you're there, and you're done. Thats it. Nothing else to look forward to. About the equivelant of dying and just dropping out of existance. Could someone explain to me in better terms what this is like? (yea I know you can't put nirvana in words but you could give it a try)
Keep growing and learning until you are everything (including the unseen) and know everything. Until you complete that, then you can keep going.
You mean when knowlege, knower and known become one right.
Are their any enligthed beings on this forum? HUMM
Want to keep yourself Annonmous.
when you reach cosmic consciousness do you still have your own will, or is it completely surendered and your on autopilet.
what do you do after that? I mean its like you have no desires what so ever, but yet you have the whole universe at you command.
I think life has no sense, the only sense is to live it.
There is no permanent enlightment.A larger perspective of life,what you can forget sometimes.If you forget your knowledge,there is also something like an enlightment.
The brain is not more like a receiver but a blocker/selector of information of your need.So if you need to be enlighted,you will receive it, if you don't like you will also receive it sometimes.
When the brain is relaxed the neocortex receive large information
quote:
Originally posted by PyroPsion69
I don't really like the idea of kundalini/Nirvana. Its like ok you're there, and you're done. Thats it. Nothing else to look forward to. About the equivelant of dying and just dropping out of existance. Could someone explain to me in better terms what this is like? (yea I know you can't put nirvana in words but you could give it a try)
I am a student of Huna myself so I also reject the concept of Nirvana. If God wanted us too absorb us into himself why would he make us live on earth and grow if in the end we will be asbsorbed into him. Nirvana, droping out of existance, goea agains all we know. It seems logical that just like physical organisims, souls also evolv. It would be against that rule if a low-level human spirit(relativ to God, or whatever u think u will be absorbed into) would be made a part of final greatnes. First many stages of development have to be gone threw before we come in contact with the infinite. Next stage after this would be becoming a High-self (or a guardian angel, name is erelevant). After that stage we would evolv even further up and maybe before this universe caves in unpon itself u would reach a level just below God.
Acording to me ancient Hindu masters by nirvana have described the state of being united with ur High-self (everyone has one, it is a part of us, and it is outside us, it is our guardian angel). I have experianced the state of being united with the High-self couple times. It is a state of joy and Love. No problems exist and nothing matters. But that state is only temporary. One can't spend all his life in that state. After that state is over a feeling of joy remains and it is posible to return to that state at any time, but it is not Nirvana, it is not droping out of existance, it is quite the oposit, it is going even further into life, it is emracing what is around, and living to the fullest.
Enlightment is also another state which is missunderstood. There is a moment in ur life that u ahive and thing too urself "O man, so thats how it works" from that point on ur life is diferent but it is still the same. There is noone who can say "I am enlightend". Enlightmen is a missunderstood level of understanding, it is not something that should be desiered, you should desire to know and
"enlihtment" will come by itself.
But whtever is, is, and what we think does not matter. What will happen after death, will happen no matter if we believe it or not.
I recently read an articul in a highly regarded newspaper from Europe about spiritual, and "extranatural" things.
The articule was about a man who went threw a near-death experiance. He said how after his physical body died he went toward the light, which came out to be his guardian angel. The angel told him his body is dead. The man started asking questions and then just like a spaceship he left Earth. He said he saw stars passing by, whole galaxys. He was one with the whole universe. He was one with God. Then he felt that he needs to go back to Earth and live again. So he did. He woke up in his house in a cofin, 24h after doctors decleared him dead (when he died he was undergoing an operation of a tumor) The man did not remember what happened to him, he started recalling the events few years later. And he wrote the articul.
I think after death we all experiance what he did, a Nirvana of sorts :)
But then we decide to come back and we live becouse it is here u can experiance life, not in the infinit. We all went threw what that man did, but we forgot it, just how we forgot our past lives becouse we wanted to have a fresh new start without any old memoris. But we will get them back when we die, just as we will loose them when we are born again.
I wish u all happy Spiritual Development[:D]
zaicer, brilliant post.
To us, at our level of spiritual development, for all intents and purposes, our higher selves ARE GOD. While at the level of development that we are, we need an 'interface' to god, our higher-selves. Eventually, when you are evolved enough, your 'higher-self' will be god itself.
Many people claim to experience 'oneness'. I think this is a misinterpretation. What people are experiencing is UNITY with their higher self. This involves knowledge of EVERYTHING. You can see how this can be mistaken for oneness or meeting God itself.
I'm sure everyone can figure out that forgetting much of the experience of meeting your higher-self, is for the same reason as forgetting your past lives. Knowledge is temporary, UNDERSTANDING is permanent.
Zaicer it sounds like you've already read this book but if you haven't, you will love it: www.thefreedomofchoice.com (its free and quite short). I recommend it to everyone.
What people often oversee is the fact that Nirvana/God/Higer Self is already within us.So you needn't to be death.
Nothingless is like time and space always here.It is just the view we do like to project us.
I guess it would be better to say we need to be intergrated on all levels instead of enlightment.
Is there really such a thing as a permanet shift in concsiousness?
I think achieving permanent enlightenment is very possible. But its up to you whether you want to make it permanent or not. You always have the ability to drop it and go back to a unconnected and "standard" life whenever you choose to.
Zaicer; may I suggest you read Journey of Souls. It might make you realise why we incarnate physically in order to eventually return back to the Creator. If you want to live a balanced life and accept the possibility of arguements on both sides, then by all means this is what you're looking for to provide you with additional perspective.
Regards,
-Alex
Our potential is so great, that not even the sky is the limit.
What does it mean to acsend spiritual, and is it real?
I also hear that once a person reaches spiritual enlightment that they get of the weel of life.
and the other way to get of the weel is to learn a sertain amount of lesson until one becomes perfected.
So there is two ways to become perfected. Why?
I seriously do not like the idea of becoming one with anything. I don't understand the attrativeness of this and probably never will. I want to retain my individuality and ability to think for myself and do not want to lose my self in a vast sea of consciousness. Sounds rather scary to me really. I'd rather roam the astral planes and/or physical planes for an eternity than become a part of some kind of enlightened borg:/
I agree blackstrem there is nothing like having our individual personalities.
[ur]http:// www.meditationexpert.com/Articles/Articlekundalinichakras.htm[/url]
Hi All,
Enlightenment isn't like a trophy you have all the time, once enlightened you are not always in an enlightened state from that moment on. You have to work at it and with it. It is the same as Cosmic Consciousness, and you do retain the bigger picture views after an enlightenment experience. It is therefore, only another step in the path of remembering what you really are. Even the enlightened are students.
Kundalini is one avenue to an enlightenment experience, and a very powerful one at that. Without preparation one should not even attempt to raise it, and certainly not without Guidance. It is a hard taskmaster that has devoured many people before us and will continue to do so.
Karma isn't about debt. It is just the natural mechanics relevant to incarnation and choice. It is a tool we Souls use to weigh up our choices in order to choose further incarnations and their goals. No one is ever going to stand over you saying you were a bad boy in your last life so you have to have a crappy one next to atone for your sins !! You will choose according to the greater awareness you possess when not embodied, and you will include your successes and apparent 'failures' to achieve certain life goals. So in light of this there would be no slate to wipe clean even if we did reach a constant enlightened state.
When in the enlightenment experience of oneness with the Universe you will come to understand that when we re-integrate with the Source we will not lose our unique 'character' to the awareness-soup. We will simply be all that there is in a fusion of our individual awarenesses, having brought the Universe closer to awareness of itself.
Love Always.[:)]
Its all about having fun.
quote:
Originally posted by alpine9
When we reach the state of enlightment is that state permanent, and if we stop our practice will it fade?
After that state can we still go deeper?
Is cosmic conciousness, superconciusness and enlightment the same?
Were does kundalini fit into all of this?
Will our karma disolve and we get off the wheel of life perhaps become Avatars?
Hell if I know!
Any comments?
I don't know how much farther we can go... but this is how it was explained to me, at least the visualization end of the explanation of how things were set up...
http://www.catthause.com/sarada/astrald/sectionmaplabels.jpg
She has explained that to me in such a way that many a book has failed, a true wise being in and of herself indeed and a good friend I'm glad to say.
Just try this: http://www.catthause.com/sarada/astrald/astral.htm
When we reach the state of enlightment is that state permanent, and if we stop our practice will it fade?
After that state can we still go deeper?
Is cosmic conciousness, superconciusness and enlightment the same?
Were does kundalini fit into all of this?
Will our karma disolve and we get off the wheel of life perhaps become Avatars?
Hell if I know!
Any comments?