Is astral projection spiritual?

[embrace]

I have pondered the question of how O.B.E. would best be approached to increase understanding of it. Up until now this question for me has been whether O.B.E. can be separated from spirituality or not.

I cannot see how it can be and would ultimately say no, but I know a lot of people would say yes, so basically I would like to know why.

Note, for a clearer definition of spirituality I am talking about the unconsciousness that the Astral seems to be, and going by general ideas that the unconsciousness cannot become illuminated without commonly named 'spiritual' tools (ie . love, acceptance, open-mindedness). Those attributes seem to 'unlock' the unconsciousness, hence the Astral, hence allow O.B.E.

Is it possible to arrive at a different conclusion and to state O.B.E. has nothing to do with spirituality at all? This is mainly a question for those who would say yes.

[Xanth]

Oh hey bud!  Didn't know you posted here on the Pulse too.  
I replied to your post on spiritualforums, but I'll copy/paste it here too and add a little anecdote.

Anything you do in life can be as much or little spiritual as you choose it to be. Everything from your interactions with the random people you meet during the course of your day to the astral projections we have to the way you eat. It can all be spiritual.

Although, like you said, you can just take what you're doing each day (physical, non-physical, etc) and have no spiritual meaning to it at all.

Anecdote:
I remember when I was searching for a martial art, I stopped by a Yoshinkan Aikido dojo which I was interested in joining... just to watch a class.
As I watched the class, the sensei came over to me and we talked for a bit.  I asked what's the "spiritual" aspect of the training?  I was expecting to hear all kinds of crazy mystical stuff... but he just said that it's all spiritual.  Everything you do in Aikido has a spiritual aspect to it.  It took many years of training before I began to understand what he was saying to me that day.  But it's not just related to a martial art... everything you do in life can have a spiritual meaning to if *IF YOU CHOOSE IT TO BE*.  A martial art isn't something you do or practice for so many hours each week... Aikido specifically, is an art which becomes a way of life.  

It (along with many other styles which promote peace and harmony - ai = harmony, ki = energy, do = the way... the way of harmonizing with energy) is a way of life.  Practicing it means, as Tom would say, becoming closer to Love,

[Pauli2]

Once you go OBE, you are experiencing something. That turns into a
sort of research, investigation, exploration or whatever you want to
name it.

Do you consider the Astral to be a "place" or a mind?

"embrace", please define "spiritual" better and more clear.

[twilighter]

This might not be what you mean by spiritual. But for me, the first time I felt myself go out of body, it seemed hugely spiritual for me. Since it was the confirmation of a spirit, or soul. For someone who was not raised in a particularly religous household, that was profound.

[Stookie_]

It doesn't have to be, but it's hard for me to imagine anyone getting very far without naturally questioning the nature of reality and consciousness at some point. I supposed even then it doesn't have to be labeled as "spiritual"... maybe a re-evaluation of reality... but a drastic change in perception no matter what you label it.

[astrophlakes]

Man the whole world is already spiritual.  Its all psychedelic, all magic.  Eating food, drinking beer, wearing clothes and driving cars is just as spiritual as OBE, but I FEEL more spirit when I'm meditating or dreaming or getting the vibes at night.  But in reality, going to the dentist is just as spiritual as a mystical OBE through the cosmos.  I don't think anything is purely metaphysical and nothing is purely physical either.  Did you know that no two atoms ever touch?  The sound you hear when a bat hits a baseball are the electrons repelling off of each other because the atoms never touch.  And a single atom itself is 99% empty space already.  You have the nucleus and then way out from there is you'll have some electrons circling the nucleus, but mostly it looks just like a mini solar-system, mostly empty space.  So what does that tell us about our "physical" bodies?  That they are mostly empty space already, that we are already more spirit than flesh!  Things we would consider magic, like reincarnation or OBE or teleportation are already being proved scientifically by quantum mechanics and quantum biology.  So I would say what can you do that is NOT spiritual???

Please check out a radio interview of Mellen-Thomas Benedict, there are many good ones out there, coast to coast, Liz Millar, Joyce Keller, or check out Mellen's homepage which has links, (www.mellen-thomas.com).  He has the most amazing near-death experience story Ive ever heard, a truly cosmic journey.  When he was interacting with "the Light" he asked "Who or what is God?" And the Light said "Who or what is NOT god?" Because if you wanted to say what god is, you would have to list every particle and piece of existence in every dimension of the universe, and its just much easier to list what is NOT god (or whatever you want to call him/her/it, you know what I mean) which would be nothing, everything is a piece of the divine, therefore ANYthing you do can be labled spiritual, but its not really necessary because on some level EVERYthing is spiritual.  But like I said, of course you FEEL more spiritual when you meditate or have an OBE, but in reality they are no more spiritual than anything else you can do.  I think Einstein said it pretty good, ill paraphrase: Either you see the whole world as a miracle, or nothing as a miracle.  If you're on this site, you should probably be leaning to the whole world option! 

[dreamingod]

Man the whole world is already spiritual.  Its all psychedelic, all magic.  Eating food, drinking beer, wearing clothes and driving cars is just as spiritual as OBE, but I FEEL more spirit when I'm meditating or dreaming or getting the vibes at night.  But in reality, going to the dentist is just as spiritual as a mystical OBE through the cosmos.

Yes I agree.
We are all spiritual oneness beings, another metaphor soul, consciousness-energy beings currently having physical human experiences.

Some people are aware of this, while most people are still caught in the Matrix or
Maya, The Grand Illusion Or The Delusion Of The Mind 
http://www.hinduwebsite.com/maya.asp
In Sanskrit the Matrix is also called 'Maya', this means the power of creative illusion.

------
What is spiritualism?
In my own opinion, this is a personal 'self discovery' process of understanding one's connection with creation/divinity.
Spiritulism transcends any one religion and does not seek approval from man-made religious organisations.
It is an internal process of liberating the soul and finding peace.
------

[Fourthdimension]

I don't think Astral projection is spiritual and I don't think you have to be spiritual to Astral project and What interests people in projections isn't the idea of getting a better understanding of ourselves or god or becoming 'enlightened' but instead its the amazing things you can do with astral projection like walking through walls and going to countries and places that you would never have the chance to go to in the physical but I think the more people learn about astral projection the more they realise that projection and spirituality is intertwined and the more they want too learn about spirituality and they come too forums like this were they meet and discuss topics of spirituality. So after the initial 'Wow i can walk through walls' stage most decide to use projection as a tool to learn about god and themselves and encounter subconscious obstacles which when overcome serve as a lesson in life and a step closer to understanding ourselves and these subconscious obstacles include the 'ego'.

The reason I say they are intertwined isnt because you cant learn to project without been spiritual nor do you need to be able to project to be spiritual but because ultimately projection leads to alot of self realisation and personal revelations and alot of discovery not only of self but of the universe that leads one too question not only themselves but the concepts and ideologies that surround them  such as "What is god?", "what is real?" and "Is everything that I perceive as reality real or is there more too it?".

because curiosity begins with ? and after that there never really is an end too it because one question leads to another and because the world  and our reality and  god cant be all answered with one question.

So overall I dont think projection is spiritual but I think once they choose too learn it and accomplish it or become dedicated to accomplishing it , it leads them on a path 'down the rabbit hole' where we question everything and tear apart what we thought we knew and get a deeper understanding and realisation so I think the majority of people if not all the people who practice projection are to an extent spiritual

[Contenteo]

  Spiritualism is subjective. Good luck getting a solid answer from the outside world, an inherently objective place. 

So, Yes...that is if you want it to be.

I had a pretty spiritual experience with a glass of wine the other day. 

Cheers,
Contenteo

[Szaxx]

Hi,
@ Fourthdime.
Defining this as an aspect of new learning from an interest, then a spiritual perception could be applied. However some at 3 years of age have this naturally and only find out its not that common when they're around 9 years of age. This suggests the spiritual label is just that, a label as its quite rare for most to understand any comments about an exit when they simply dream. To give specific details which later get verified by themselves brings up the same question of is it spiritual?
Myself, I think its as spiritual as an encounter with a glass of wine lol.

Its natural and mankind is just starting to walk...again.
What is spirituality anyway?

[Fourthdimension]

Hi Szaxx,

I'll try to answer you question however am ...well ...quite high and having fun and been quite productive (For once) So if my response seems incoherent thats probs the reason why haha So apologies in advanced

Yeah, I guess I am trying to define this as new learning from an interest and then through arising questions and problems which leads to pondering questions regarding reality and god ect ect and thus leading to the individual gaining more awareness and understanding and ultimatly leading to  the individual 'stripping' away the chains set by mainstream religon and the rules and norm's that govern how a person should think and act in society. Leaving that person to think and believe and understand more freely without having to comply in accordance to how the majority do.

Am not saying that Projection alone is responsible for this ......The key to unlocking those chains is the individual questioning everything and taking nothing as solid 100% fact. What better way to learn this than through projection which shows quite boldly thatd the world is more than we just see and helps a person realise that just because at this present moment they cant see out the box and what they see makes them believe that this is the only perspective too see it from but through projection it helps your out-of-box-thinking and helps you take a step back and see the whole picture and question as to wether this is the only perspective or is there others.

and through this learning it leads to a better understanding and awareness and a more spiritual being.


Yeah , your right some have experiences like this at 3 years of ages and might not find out its not common till 9 years of age. I remember I had a few experiences of projection and 1 da ja vu that I can recall from when I was younger and I never thought much of them nor questioned them. Firstly as a child we arent bothered about what is normal or not normal and what significance dfoes spirituality or belief have to a child and children aren't conditioned by society as much as in their teen years and adulthood and childrens ideas are surreal to begin with.........just look at their tv shows....Xmen which has mututants who can fly ect or superman or batman......So if what they see on TV is part of what conditons them to the norm then how would it be out of the norm to have a dream of flying or walking through walls........How vividly would they be able to recall this .

When I was young if I said to my Mam "I just had a dream where I was flying over Grandma's and....." Well my mam  would most likely pretend to be interested then reassure me that it was just a dream aqnd then say I continued by saying "and she was doing blah blah blah" and my Grandma was doing that then it would be just put down to coincedence.

So not only is a childs life full of surrealism but also they internalise the world partially through the conditioning set by their parents.

Children tend not to have an objective outlook on life nor themselves but rather they are very subjective and dont really care why it happened however as they get older when they somehow come across an article or research about astral projection something that makes them seperate their experience from everyone elses and realise that this is not normal then this is where the vital questioning comes in

the concept of spiritual will no doubt vary from person to person so yeah I guess that makes it a label but what we are labelling is a concept .. Its a concept which is about understanding and questioning and awareness.
I think from religion to religion and from person to persocn the concept is tailored to fit but generically the label spiritual is about understanding and awareness.

for someone too say I am spiritual aint saying I am enlightened to me it says I have started on a pathway that has gave me a better understanding through experience and learning by questioning what I have learned and through this I have a better understanding of who I am,Who I want to be and that I continue to question these abstract concepts of god and reality, heaven and hell  although others may look upon it with insignificance to me as a spiritual person these questions are vital and thatb I as a person will continue to question and learn about such matter and my ideas may vary greatly regarding a certain subject over my life time..

I guess that the questons that most find insignifacant and tend not too look upon nor ponder with seriousness is those abstract questions about reality and god and too say your a spiritual highlights that to you these questions are significant.

I dunno if I answered your question and I hope its readable as I need a cig and another line lol so I aint proof-reading this but If I havent answered properly let me know and I'll try my best to answer.

Hope I dont sopund rude in asking..........How do you find a glass of wine spiritual?

I understand how certain substances can be deemed spiritual due to the altered states they produce and make one question or believe their experience is from god or the symbology laid upon certain substances such as christians and wine.

Anyhow I need that cig lol Take care

[Szaxx]

Hi,
To most spirituality is their connection with god, thats their god from an endless list of religions.
There's also many who regard this as being in possession of some extra sense of perception outside of the norm.
In this we have two totally differing viewpoints although they intertwine at points.
this is reserved for the highest of religions ranks as the masses are told its not possible for them to understand and their respective peers are to be obeyed in their correspondence. A typical example is god moves in mysterious ways so dont question the will of god.
Those seeking an explanation for this extra sense have a more scientific stance and limited by their knowledge may learn that sense through research or a natural ability.
The glass of wine also has two meanings, one religious could be the blood of Christ. The other follows a more mundane path. As society has developed there exists those who dont/refuse to fit in and wine keeps them out of  the way. Its a delusion to us but from their point of view its salvation. In their mindset the wine in essence is their religion.
Two views of spirituality, one based on a diety the other on a belief based ideal.
The question still remains...

[Xanth]

Hi,
To most spirituality is their connection with god, thats their god from an endless list of religions.
There's also many who regard this as being in possession of some extra sense of perception outside of the norm.
In this we have two totally differing viewpoints although they intertwine at points.
this is reserved for the highest of religions ranks as the masses are told its not possible for them to understand and their respective peers are to be obeyed in their correspondence. A typical example is god moves in mysterious ways so dont question the will of god.
Those seeking an explanation for this extra sense have a more scientific stance and limited by their knowledge may learn that sense through research or a natural ability.
The glass of wine also has two meanings, one religious could be the blood of Christ. The other follows a more mundane path. As society has developed there exists those who dont/refuse to fit in and wine keeps them out of  the way. Its a delusion to us but from their point of view its salvation. In their mindset the wine in essence is their religion.
Two views of spirituality, one based on a diety the other on a belief based ideal.
The question still remains...

Spirituality, to me, has nothing to do with anything 'god' or 'religion'.
Spirituality also has nothing to do with extra senses or abilities. 

Spirituality is about growing as an individual.  This means beyond the need for a religious experience.
Spirituality is about how you treat your fellow creatures on this earth (ALL creatures).
It's about knowing who you are and what you are at the deepest levels.

[Szaxx]

Hi,
Personally I too think on the same lines but prefer to use the word enlightenment.
The above post is based on a couple of hours research on the internet giving the two basic viewpoints.
The searches left me still asking that same question.
Meanings and terminology are so misconstrued.

[Fourthdimension]

Spirituality is a connection with god? To be honest I think been spiritual is totally different than been religous and spirtuality isn't a religon revolving around some manifestation of being rather like Xanth said its about self development and awareness and getting in touch with ones self and asking questions to further your understanding.

What your refering to when you say its not reserved for the masses is what the church and other religous orders and denominations claim so that we can pedastlize god and the church giving them the sense of authority , power and control over us.

You say "God moves in mysterious ways so dont question the will of god" but this is exactly what we do when an individual says they are spiritual they question the will of god and question everything of the matter, destiny, fate, choice....everything as to get a better understanding of themselves and life and god.

Am not gonna bother replying to the rest because your confusing religon with spirituality and you talk about wine been salvation. been socially outcasted and finding joy off a glass of wine isnt been spiritual and the wine doesnt have a spiritual meaning it is just relaxing and they may be addicted or placebo but to find an understanding of ones self from a routine drink of wine to unwind isn't spiritual nor is it religon it is wine.

Anyways cheers for the post

take care

[Szaxx]

Hi,
This is exactly the case. The more you learn the better the understanding of everything.. The post contains a general view from basic research, if you search spirituality and see the hits most have a religious nature. This I found strange as I expected a wider interpretation. The wine for the unfortunate homeless guy IS his salvation, I asked one, and he absolutely hates the system we live in. Having no skills he's outcast. Poor guy.
The church reference on demeaning the masses is control based. We share that thought. God moves in... a typical statement heard all my life backs this up as its accepted without question.
I don't drink and absolutely hate its effects on society. If it was banned I wouldnt object. Its a personal thing  Im not pressing further.
I enjoyed your reply and thanks.
Spirituality is misrepresented by far unfortunately it appears.

[Stookie_]

I would say spirituality is a feeling. What that feeling is can vary from person to person. When someone says "I'm spiritual, but not religious", they are saying there's an inner feeling of something greater, whatever they interpret that as. It's more than just a set of rules or beliefs, it's an inner experience.

I think some people also get spirituality and superstition confused. There can sometimes be a very fine line.