Thinking of everything that a typical person faces in every day physical life, do you suppose it is possible for an ordinairy person to go beyond these responsibilities and pressures to become enlightened and move on from this plane forever?
In my personal opinion I belive that it is impossible to totally escape physical responsibilities such as work, and attachments. What do you think? Do you even think enlightenment is possible at all? or is it all just another form of control to keep us in order throughout our lives, give us something to look up to so we don't freak out and go crazy.
I'm beginning to dislike the word, enlightened. I'd like to know how my family would eat if my husband quit his job. :? I'm sure my kids can't survive on enlightment alone. Be the best you can be and try not to hurt anyone along the way....that's enlightenment. IMO.
Nay
Quote from: loppoppy on July 17, 2006, 18:17:50
In my personal opinion I belive that it is impossible to totally escape physical responsibilities such as work, and attachments. What do you think? Do you even think enlightenment is possible at all? or is it all just another form of control to keep us in order throughout our lives, give us something to look up to so we don't freak out and go crazy.
Absolutely. Don't limit yourself. Freedom isn't in actions, it's in perception. You can have a thousand stressfull physical responisibilities and still become "enlightened". They're still there, but with a new perspective.
Modern Gnostic practitioners, for some years now, have been working on achieving enlightenment within the confines of everyday life. What people conceive enlightenment to be, presently, is perfection (or ideals of what perfect is).
From my experiences, enlightenment is not perfection (enlightened beings are far from perfect). Rather, they are absolutely structured in their own being. Meaning...they have no subversive tendencies to their own will and consciousness (not necessarily to their existence, as Yeshua was persecuted and many other enlightened beings of the past as well). Also, awakened being have different wills, different opinions and so forth (there is no perfect way to be
Let's consider the meaning of "subversive tendencies". Ingenerally, it means any inner resistances. Modern people loose consciousness all the time, whether they are severely injured, take drugs, etc.. Enlightened beings never loose consciousness (not even as they fall asleep and naturally leave their bodies to enter the astral plane each night (for those that have physical bodies)).
Also, there is no impediment to their will. Enlightened ones have been able to enter into other dimensions by sheer will, fly, making things appear, heal, etc..
Our subversive nature manifests within the confines of everyday life. At any given instant people loose control and become 'angry'. At another point it's common to become uncontrollably 'fearful' in response to a life situation. There are so many subversive tendencies which are an impediment to inner control--even those which are not emotions; they are qualities of human nature which one would not even slightly suspect. However, they are all removable natures, because they are the result of actual elements which exist in other dimensions (the subconscious resides in the astral plane and more). Some are various thoughts, mental activity, etc. which are coming from a multi-dimensional entity that also exists in the astral plane (the "demons" of the bible, which the vast majority of humanity has).
Yeshua (Jesus) once told a crowd of bystanders who were watching him cast demons out of two demon-possessed men: "you all have demons". These demons (from the other dimension, which I myself have seen) have gradually possessed us from past incarnations. They are reason why we can not remember; they are also reason for the vast social and economic issues which humanity encounters. They are the inside of the Pharisees' cup.
What I say here is said genuinely. We can not escape them if we try to escape our social issues: our family, job, eating, etc. because the parasites manifest in these events. They have always manifested in the events of daily life (which are the means by which they get their food--the energies from our multi-dimensional bodies).
I'll give an account of mine that I had from taking walks while working to get rid of these parasites. I had been walking for enormous periods of time daily, focusing on purging myself of them. On one of the later walks the senses, in an instant, became immediately clear, and the awareness expanded (whatever parasite it was that I had managed to get rid of at that instant was probably huge). I could then see things from over a mile away (which I couldn't see at first). Taking other walks and working on dissolving these things, I was able to even further expand the awareness (beyond the concept of human belief as to how powerful the senses can be). It was absolutely natural too (like the senses are supposed to be that way. I could smell things from a kilometer or more away, and psychic senses were also naturally developing (without having to exercise the chakras). Unfortunately, I had to stop the walks (it wasn't so good for my body), but I gained a lot from them.
Also, the walks were mainly an exercise for me becoming more aware of these parasites. In the day, in the events of daily life, I had to--from event to event--work on dissolving the parasites. In the events they are not so subtle as they are when we are alone (it is easier to see them, because they come out to feed around other people). Also, they have a telepathic connection (they are stimulated by the other peoples' parasites who are around us). They don't "trade thoughts" for this to happen. It works almost like pollenization. All of the flowers in one area all "bloom" at the same time. If you take one flower out, it might not bloom. The parasites have to come out to feed for us to see and get rid of them--we have to be around society.
Thank you all for your responses, they were all very helpful.
7. "those who are most selfless and humblest have highest chance to progress towards ending rebirth. the road is very tough"
When i read things like that it becomes almost certain I will not be ascending anywhere any time soon. A friend once said to me some people have to much faith and that is the main reason they fail on such a path. When mistakes are made they forget about them and carry on with faith instead of analyzing their mistakes and learning from them.
I like to analyze my mistakes and learn from them, but for me the problem is faith. I have absolutely none, no matter what miracles i might see or do, it's never enough to convince my mind it's possible. I just feel like all faith is blind and it will lead me nowhere. Now i know your opinions on enlightenment. Does anyone have any useful advice on beating my problem with faith?
responses will be appreciated.
Faith isn't belief. It's what we know. When you're walking do you ever question that you might trip and fall? Do you think you're going to choke on food when you eat? Most likely you don't...
We only question the things which are mysteries to us--what we believe. Anyone who has good enough faith isn't going to question whether the astral plane or mystical experiences are real--because they are always experiencing them.
These have been good help to me:
http://astralpulse.com/forums/index.php?topic=23237.0
Instead of faith, maybe you need open-mindedness. Faith relies too much on what you assume is truth. But it may be very different than your assumption. By keeping an open mind in both physical and non-physical experiences you open yourself up to change, transforming yourself towards realization, or "enlightenment".
The best place to put faith is in yourself, in that you can keep an open mind and stay on track.
It seems to me that with all the conveniences of today it would be easier to find enlightenment. If only people would turn off the tv more often. :-P
what happend with this old sentence "Anything is Possible". I still believe in it :wink:
Quote from: loppoppy on July 17, 2006, 18:17:50
Thinking of everything that a typical person faces in every day physical life, do you suppose it is possible for an ordinairy person to go beyond these responsibilities and pressures to become enlightened and move on from this plane forever?
In my personal opinion I belive that it is impossible to totally escape physical responsibilities such as work, and attachments. What do you think? Do you even think enlightenment is possible at all? or is it all just another form of control to keep us in order throughout our lives, give us something to look up to so we don't freak out and go crazy.
Everyone Living here on this planet right now has the potential to become enlightened or to become a spiritual master, every single one of us. and it starts with intent. If your life is burdened with responsibilities and and pressures, know that you are working towards your enlightenment.
One other thing you should know is that enlightenment is not about escaping this plane, it is about being in the middle of drama and not be affected by it, and it all starts with intent.
I admire the questions you are asking, because they show that you believe there is more to life than what is being offered at the moment. Then again, this is the challenge of each and every soul living on this planet, to see if souls incarnated on the planet will eventually be aware that there is more to life than what they are experiencing. Through
free choice, which is the staple of life on this planet we chose kind of life we want to live. The main challenge is whether or not you will change what you don't like in your life.
enlightenment that is unfolding on this planet is not about running away from the burdens of evryday life. It is about finding solution to the problems, and that is about to happen in a big way and it will unfold all over the planet.
The reason life is tough right now is because:
(1) The potentials of life coming to an end on this planet were huge in the past few decades. In fact right now there would be no life on the surface of this planet or we would be suffering unspeakable horrors. When this potential catastrophe was approaching, we were faced with two choices (i) Die a horrible death or (ii) stop it from happening, and we chose to stop it.
(2) When we chose to void this scenario through our freewill, on an deeper level within our spirit we collectively chose to return to the conciousness we had many millennia ago, that is, the one most people in spirituality circles term 5th dimensional consciousness. And in order to return to that conciousness, we have to undo the mess we find ourselves in, and right now the planet is collectively dealing with this mess.
thank you all once again for your advice and guidance. It has all helped me a great deal. While i kept all these questions in my head it felt like a mess up there, now it feels slightly clearer and i think i understand a lot more now. I love that feeling when you suddenly understand something and it's like all the rubbish is blown out of your mind. Thanks again.
QuoteI love that feeling when you suddenly understand something and it's like all the rubbish is blown out of your mind.
You had an enlightenment! lol :)
As long as you are willing to break away from the shell that this plane is real and our only existence and that we DO have a spirit. Than everyone needs to look deep into themself..There you will find enlightenment. God meant for it to be a challenge here but i never expected thissss..LOL
Quote from: WalkerInTheWoods on July 21, 2006, 20:11:52
It seems to me that with all the conveniences of today it would be easier to find enlightenment. If only people would turn off the tv more often. :-P
... and read more books.
Quote from: Stookie on July 23, 2006, 09:59:55
You had an enlightenment! lol :)
If that is the case then it helps me understand how ultimate enlightenment is beyond comprehension. I find it hard enough to explain what I felt from just that little bit of knowledge. Reaching true enlightenment would be absolutely perfect when it finally happens to me...well i don't know what i would do it'd just be to amazing!
If you just look at each day being a chance to do one thing better either a habit or just an action. Live now, dont let your mind wonder all over the place, focus on the now. You will change here and in the dream world .
Hello Loppoppy,
I just had to copy this post from another thread on this forum, as it explains my view on enlightenment. I hope, that you can use some of the thoughts and idéas from this ;-) ...
Kind regards
Kenneth
Quote from: Kenneth on July 07, 2006, 17:54:03
Whou - a lot of good thoughts in this thread!! :grin:
GroovyGoddess wrote:
So, ultimately 'Learning how to die' means to me that a person has completely satisfied their need for experience, so there is simply nothing left to do... .... Other than to play with our life-situations, other people, and have a he** of a lot of fun doing it :wink:
Faraz wrote about the book "The power of now" by Ekhart Tolle, and I would also like to recommend that book!! ... Also important from that book is the importance of being present in the here and now, instead of getting "grabbed" by the thoughts and feelings of the past and future.
About enlightenment:
- There is a saying that goes, that "Enlightenment is the absence of pain and suffering" (or something like that). So in order to bring that "down to earth", it must mean something like eliminating all these little nags, pains, negative thoughts etc. etc. within me, and I am home free?
There is a whole world of techniques to remove pain and suffering, and getting through traumas and stuck thoughts and ideas - I would recommend EFT (Emotional Freedom Technique - www.emofree.com ), as being one of the most effective ones.
Another saying goes something like: "Before enlightenment, bring wood and chop water - after enlightenment, bring wood and chop water" ... (or is it the other way round?? :wink: ). As I understand that one, it is to try to explain, that you do not actually change once you become Enlightenment - you are still you. There is actually so much of you, that pain and suffering does not have a snowballs chance in hell within your inward acceptance, clear mind, and ability to distinguish what is you, and what is your emotions and energy-movements, and thereby NOT you :wink: (and writing become enlightenment instead of writing become enlightened is actually a conscious choice from my side - it is not something you "wear", or take on as a "role" or something - it is YOU on the inside, and not a shell you climb into).
"Accept inward in order to create possibilities outward" ... That one is (for me) the convincing theory why we should try to accept ourselves, accept ourselves, accept ourselves again and again and again.... and still being able to change what we do or say to others!! ...
I have tried to create a "filter" within my mind, that response to each and every degrading thought and difficult emotion, pain and fear with a couple of "Even though ... <this thought, pain, fear or emotion>, I completely and utterly accept and forgive my self".
It doesn't matter if you believe what you say or not - your subconscious is a sort of "automatic" programmable something, that very soon will learn to emulate what you are consciously trying to tell it. Once that happens, keep saying it, and slowly but surely you will "negate" all the negative within, by actually acknowledge that it exists within you, and at the same time accepting your self :grin: (There is more to this, but this is a "short" version).
Quote from: Enoch on July 23, 2006, 17:18:57
As long as you are willing to break away from the shell that this plane is real and our only existence and that we DO have a spirit. Than everyone needs to look deep into themself..There you will find enlightenment. God meant for it to be a challenge here but i never expected thissss..LOL
Very true, look inside your (greater)self, you're of God and therefore you have the ability to know what God knows.. so long as it's not knowledge beyond what you can comprehend (or the one forbidden question). Forget all the influences of the world and meditate on the Tree of Knowledge. It represents
all things, including a form of thinking, start with the fruit at the end of the branch; those things nearest you, and work your way to the source. Unify the other branches untill you come to the one and only answer to all of it.
Absolutely yes.
Maybe we sometimes ask ourselves those kind of questions because we've idealized what enlightment and spirituality is: lost monasteries in the top of high mountains, strict yoga masters with more bone than flesh, and so on.
I had such viewpoint time ago till I realized that life is a matter of expression, and no matter if it is done in a huge city or in a small village. The point is just to express.
So we are born in certain spots of the planet to commit our karmas. If you're born in a big place full of activities and social troubles you're just in the correct place in that period of your life. Maybe you'll move on latter but if that happens it will be because of your personal evolution that changes everything.
So you can attain perfection and purity even in New York (;-)), the only trick is to focus your intentions in the path you choose.
Yes i think it is also possible, in fact it is not even difficult.
By the awakening of the Kundalini, you get connected to the force that created you. It is a spontaneous union with the divine.
But you all have to remember that not all that is unknown is divine.
Some paranormal practices are simply dangerous and brings you to realms that are not your own, you all need to go to your own essence to establisch the lost contact with your spirit again, to become the spirit.
The awakening of your Kundalini brings you there, it first cleanse your subbtle system and burns away your karmas so that you can find your way back to the divine. But the ways most of you try to awaken the Kundalini is unautherized, The Kundalini is some dumb spiritual force, She is smarter than you and the protecter of the Kundalini let no one treat the Kundalini unrespectfull.
Many of you have been seekers of ancient times seeking the truth.
Now is the time you should get it, get your self-realisation and become one with your spirit, become one with with the Adi Shakti, whom is also called the Holy Ghost or the Primordial Mother. Because the Kundalini is the reflection in you of the Primordial universal Mother whom created this universe. Sahaja Yoga is a unique way of awakening and working with the Kundalini, where you can experience true spirituality, that brings you closer to the divine, to God. Here is a site of Sahaja Yoga where you can be introduced to this unique method of true spiritual awakening
This book really explains it well in an easy to understand language.
Awakening to the dream - Leo Hartong
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0954779215/amzna9-1-20/ref=nosim?dev-t=D26XECQVNV6NDQ%26camp=2025%26link_code=xm2
and
The Return To Oneness - Zivorad M. Slavinski
This is not really about enlightenment but about Principles and Practice of Spiritual Technology.
http://spiritual-technology.com/eng/index1.php?_link=books/oneness.php
No matter what you will have the YIN and the Yang of it...Its to be expected.
Enlightenment is not something you reach, it is the realisation that you are your true nature "GOD" (I prefer the term "Divine"). And not your self.
How can someone talk to their self???
Talking to yourself implies there are two of you... Subject and Object as Tolle puts it.
You and Yourself... subject and object
You and Yourself... God and Ego.
Seeing through this illusion that you are not the self and that you really are the divine is what I think enlightenment is.
but heres the contradiction.. Who realises this?
The self realises that it's an illusion. That doesn't make sense. How can the illusion see through the illusion?
So really it's consciousness becoming conscious of itself... and etc....
I had a crack at explaining what I think but I probably just confused a load of people trying to et my point across.
Listen to the teachings of eckhart Tolle and Adyashanti, they helped me a lot
We are not an illusion we exist...just realize that everything around us (the world as we know it) is nothing like what we think...Including ourself.
Definition for Illusion... A deceptive impression or appearance
Meaning that yes you are right but so am I.
I do understand you. We are illusion to an extent...Because what we SEE is only part of the story. Most dont see the big picture. But as practitioners of the arts that is our job. To see through the veil of school and the lies.
Hi,
If we think about enlightenment as not having to be the way it has been portrayed to us by eastern mystics and cave dwellers, then it must be possible to be enlightened in any world.
Modern culture and it's overpowering pressures do have quite an impact on the enlightened beings among us. It does not provide food for the table in any family, well, maybe not all. Perhaps the concept we use to understand enlightenment needs some alterations?
Instead of seeing it as the means to ascension out of this world, we could perceive it as simply being able to open ourselves up to our own higher awareness levels (and therefore open to more light)with all the responsibilities that go with it, allowing us to perceive with clarity the higher or bigger pictures and also enabling us to share with others the means to enlightenment that worked for us.
Apart from that, putting food on the table, etc, is something that we all do no matter what culture we come from and how aware we are of the bigger pictures. Personally, I think the aim of enlightenment in our culture is to open to those higher awareness levels and then find the way to be that Being in the here and now of our world.
Love Always.
Tay
In the older cultures it was differant. Many time confronting the ego was not so hard. Determining karma levels was much easier. There was no where near the "evil" so near and present as now. Mind body and spirit must be a perfect pyramid. And now its so much fast food and materialism and wrong sex acts that spirit is lost to the overbearing manipulation of us through television, school, and of course governing policies. Trying to dwell on this plane and understand spirit is truly a worthy task. I applaud anyone that gives it an effort. I make it my life and can finally see how negative our spirit is affected by the above and other crap......We truly live in a wonderful world but its contents are fallen very far.
You are pretty wise Enoch, I enjoy reading your posts. 8-) + Karma
I agree, most people are stuck in a state of denial also. If you mention what you think they just dismiss it and label you as insane. I think they are just ignorant though. One day everyone will see... one day.
I think 2012 will reunite us with our true nature, i'm not relying on it though.
No...if that is the end that is prophesized than its going to be interesting long before than...anything that has been a mystery will no longer be. And that cannot help but have serious consequences..But the end has been expected sooo many times. I live just to enjoy helping people find spirit. If i can just help one person it was worth it. and certainly i am no guru but we help each other to learn no matter how far on the path or what has been obtained or indeed lost. Ahhh almost forgot..thank you for the words :wink:
Yes certainly the lead up to it will be an interesting, possibly frightening but overall an amazing time. We are lucky to be alive at such a time... maybe we won't by the time the day comes with religious tensions and such. I don't think it will be the end of the world, just the end of time as we know it. A new age, and who knows what it will be like. :-o
It's the end of the world as we know it.
It's the end of the world as we know it.
It's the end of the world as we know it and I feel fine.
key words here being... "as we know it"
As soon as you mention a new age everyone starts panicing, thinking there all going to die or something. That could happen but theres no point jumping to conclusions as there is no right or wrong atm only theory.
I have faith in the belief that living saints (having reached the highest level of consciousness, for example Christ) are here for all generations as teachers. They may not be well known, but are always present as God incarnate.
Will enlightenment magically sweep over all the inhabitants of the the physical earth someday? I don't think so.
That would be like giving PhDs to all the kids at the elementary school. The education system has a structure.
Actually the self is the spirit is the reflection of God the vader. Kundalini is the reflection in us of Goddes the Holy Mother, or the Holy Ghost as they refer to it in the bible. Ofcourse they will never say the Holy Ghost is a woman, because that would make the woman equall to man. stupid church.
However the Holy Ghost gave birth to our universe, just like everybody was born from a woman.
The Kundalini is the Divine feminine in all of us. It is by Her grace whe can have enlightenment. And it is for everybody, not just for mountain trekkers or cave dwellers.
You must not mistake the self for the ego. The self is the atma. the eternal witness, Shri Shiva. You see if you can percieve something, that means you are not that thing you are percieving. And if you percieve you self, that means that you are not the self, but rather the ego or intelect. But if you are the self, the spirit, which is the reflection of God, then you see everything else that you are not.
The make up of the present self is ego. All knoted up and confused. It does not need eliminated as some would think. It needs balanced. The soul is free from all of it. But unfortunatly in this age so many know so little of the soul.