Karma and Buddhism

[Tombo]

I don not understand the Idea of Karma in Buddhism completly, This is due to the fact that the word Karma is used in different ways by different teachings.
As I understand Buddhism. it is not about believing but about experiencing and thus knowing. Now I do not clearly see how karma fits into this. Isn't karma something one has to believe?

Lets look at an example

A child gets painfully killed by an adult.

Now what exact part does karma play in this example?

Thanks, Tom

[halfphased]

Karma is the law of cause and effect.  So, in your example, karma could be seen as the chain of actions / events that took place upto, including, and after the murder of the child.  

Karma says "this happens, this happens, etc." Keeping in mind that it is fluid and there are no breaks in time.

I eat an apple and there is no more apple for me to eat.  I allow my homicidal tendencies to build up to a point where I am at a place where I can rationalize taking a life...

You are where you are because of what came before and you will go from where you are.  Keeping in mind that all there is is this eternal moment and we are always here.

I also wouldn't say that karma controls you unless you allow yourself to believe that you are controlled by it...?  

This is my understanding and I just migh need to be corrected

[Leo Volont]

The Sanskrit Traditions are fun.

Today we have a very Philosophically Advanced Hinduism.  The great thing about Hinduism is that it would never let itself be surpassed.  As soon as another Religion or Philosophy showed any signs of Innovation, Hinduism would jump on it and claim it as its own.

So some of the best clarifications of Buddhist Terminologies are to be found in the Bhagavad Gita.  Of course, the Hindus will tell you that the Bhagavad Gita predates Buddhism.  Well, Hindus are also terrible liars!

Karma is 'what comes around, goes around'.  You get what you have given.

They say that when people seriously start upon the Spiritual Path, they can often times experience a speedup in their Karmic Returns.  If you have been uniformly kind and giving, that is a wonderful thing.  But if you have been a hellaciously obnoxious and selfish A__h___. Then it can be a problem.

The Hindus teach a philosophy and practice that can help mitigate getting back all you really deserve.  Karma attaches to the Ego.  So if you don't want all that you deserve, then stop being 'you'.   Become unattached and release yourself from your connections.   Perfectly, you should be able to examine your past actions and say honestly, "Who the hell was that guy?"

I once went to a seminar called "Cutting the Ties that Bind".  You can create for yourself a Ceremony.  You can envision all of the Karmic connections in your life and CUT them.  Visualize these karmic connections as tendons that attach to you and jerk you around like a muscle.  CUT Them.   Now, most of your Karma is Family Karma.  CUT off from your parents, and your siblings -- all that dysfunctional crap... cut it loose.  Take a breather between ceremonies.  Then cut off Karma that you are aware of.  People you screwed over, or who screwed over you... you can be just as held back by Karmic inclinations to reek revenge for problems of the past.

You can do these ceremonies yourself.  But usually it is easier to ask around in your community until you find some spooky New Age Chick who will be glad to officiate while you go into trance state and simply benefit by being on the receiving end.

[daem0n]

you can't cut your karma just like that, what with the others side of the link ?
i found that taking or giving energy does the trick, it's karma too

[Leo Volont]

you can't cut your karma just like that, what with the others side of the link ?
i found that taking or giving energy does the trick, it's karma too

You're right.  I've never seen anybody become instantly unattached.  However, I've seen people eventually become less attached then they were before they started.

It take intent, will and a change of personal direction.  There needs to be a conscious effort to transcend the self that is bound by all that personal history.

If the Self is only changed, then the New Self will be the magnet for a new generation of Karma.  Eventually one needs to depersonalize... to see 'self' as 'other'.

[daem0n]

i wouldn't agree
i am depersonalized, i  constantly cut conditioning of my ego (as creation of this life), but it is just quick fix to get in blissful state all the time   , even when i'm sick i don't lose it, however i found that when i express "anger" in some situations, i don't feel it, its just ego rewinding the tape
of course when you get a deal with it you can negotiate for a common goal (removing all that i am from all limitations is my case), and show paths leading to more "pleasure", ego is always shifting towards pleasure and running from pain, so i just  showed him that the paths he was taking lead eventually to more pain and voilla, no more attaching etc, well i have still few subjects to work on
but to truly ascend you have to integrate you subconsiousness, unconciousness and lots of other things,  and taking step up and playing catching hands with ego will not do

[daem0n]

besides we need ego in order to surivive, our souls are shattered enough, we don't need more divisions

[Leo Volont]

besides we need ego in order to surivive, our souls are shattered enough, we don't need more divisions

Some advances yogins speak of going from Jiva organization to Atmic organization.   The ordinary ego is jivac.  Yes, if that were to disintegrate then our minds would lose ability to coordinate stuff.  We would be autistic.  That would not be good.

But, apparently there can be a higher organization -- the Atmic.

Still, I have heard that some jivac ego is necessary -- it may be an old wives tale told among yogis who don't know anything, but it goes that you cannot live 21 days past losing your ego, because in the Constant Bliss you would forget to eat, drink, even breath.

It does seem true, after reading about many Saints from many traditions, that they DO seem to retain some degree of ego.

Much of their apparent Ego might be like your 'dispassionate anger' -- the anger that you show out of habit when you are not really angry.

You know, you should whip yourself like a disobedient dog for being angry out of mere habit.  When you rise above the body, still, you must be responsible that it behaves itself.  You are like a parent who allows its child to run about breaking things and shouting like a brat.  To be your own Master, you must insist that you be your own servant.  The next time your 'servant' becomes unruly, give him a good beating!

[daem0n]

i just show him error of his ways, beating oneself creates another division, besiedes we are friends, when i think of something i repatter myself
it's not about rising above body, but transcending it, and that includes integrating it and transcending with it (this could be atmic, not familiar with your terminology)
no ascetism, this is dangerous and rather waste of time