I had a few questions I was hoping would receive answers. I think I understand the mechanics of Karma but was wondering how to word it correctly to an associate of mine in deterring him from a line of business which may be detrimental to his well being. His thoughts revolve around the cultivation and sale of marijuana.
He believes that by providing buyers with marijuana they reach a drug induced state similar to that of mind body separation which will in turn trigger a deeper appreciation for spirituality and ignite a search for answers. He argues that marijuana is natural unlike amphetamines and therefore is less harmful. He knows that the effects of the drug are weakening physically, yet also states that its use is not intended for long term use. He also states that many cultures took part in the use of drugs in order to understand spirituality more deeply, and so therefore it harbors no negative Karma.
I can see his point, but disagree. Although positive events may take place afterward, that can't be assured. I also think it's not anyones place to take on bad Karma in order to facilitate the evolution of others. The old, "means to an end" thing.
Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.
Well you see, Karma isn't real, its mysticism.
I didn't post this in order to dispute it as being real or not. The heading for this particular format includes Karma related issues. This is a Karma related issue. Your entitled to your opinion, but if you have nothing constructive to offer other than "it's not real", don't post anything at all. At least provide your views on why it's not real. That would be much appreciated. Thank you.
Quote from: EtheriKI didn't post this in order to dispute it as being real or not. The heading for this particular format includes Karma related issues. This is a Karma related issue. Your entitled to your opinion, but if you have nothing constructive to offer other than "it's not real", don't post anything at all. At least provide your views on why it's not real. That would be much appreciated. Thank you.
Thanks for giving us permission to challenge you as well :wink: Do you just want convincing arguments to get him to change his ways immediately, or do you have the time and desire to learn why you feel so strongly against his future goals?
First, I would like to present the argument that NickJW was trying to provide, being that karma is mystical thinking with a bit more depth. According to this website (http://www.ncf.carleton.ca/freenet/rootdir/menus/sigs/religion/buddhism/introduction/truths/karma2.html), karma is a bhuddist concept. Does bhuddism sit well in your gut, or is it just a bunch of mystical fluff? Based on how you form your posts, I assume it doesn't sit well with you so you need to find another path to explain your views, in my humble-ish opinion. Another good point is you never really explained to us why you believe karma is real in the first place.
A better path for you would be the Dogmatic path, stating that if you go against a specific set of principles, then you are doomed. A few good ones would be; friendship, morals, and local laws. Put him in his box and maybe he'll get skeerd.
Karma is merely cause and effect. If its karma your trying to explain to him simply show him the effects that are or will be caused by his actions.
Id also look at your own reason for wanting him to quit this line of business. If it is actually for his own well being and not just your own disapproval of marijuana then it would be ok to have a chat with him. Because, sticking with the concept of karma, before you act you must make sure your motive, or intentions are altruistic.
If it is just because you dont like pot smokers then I would reconsider because smoking bud is no different from drinking alcohol, smoking cigarettes, drinking coffee, etc. so if it is from that standpoint I would make sure you do not do any of these things as that would be very hypocritical.
Nah it's cool. I don't think it'd be hypocritical because I don't smoke, drink or anything like that. It does revolve around his well being though because I do care about him. I've figured out the best course of action. His actions stem from a need for financial strength, coupled with personal satisfaction from growing. The whole process and accomplishment. He's spoken of a desire to start schooling, as he feels that it would give him purpose. I think that coupled with a part time job (I have an idea) as well as government payments dedicated to students would help.
I just remembered there's an aptitude test at the university early next month I'm attending. He seemed interested. So that's what's up! Cheers everyone, much appreciated.
karma is in the mind. the things that happen in life are really not good or bad or anything, its just simply cause and effect. the experience of life comes from the mind. if i trip over a rock and scrape my knee, i might get ticked and curse the rock. but really what happened is just a process of cause and effect. the anguish is in my mind not in the rock, the ground or my knee. our actions determine the way we perceive these events. if i get upset and curse the rock, that action conditions the mind to perceive these types of events as negative, so that mental anguish will always arise when those outer conditions are met.
you never know when you will see the fruits of a particular karma. it could be today, ten years from now, next life time.
it all depends on when the right outer conditions arise. lets go back to the tripping over a rock ex. when i react to that in anger i condition my mind in that way, so eventually that mind state will arise again, but it will not arise until outer conditions are met, like say stubbing my toe.
remember karma is the intention behind our actions.
the mind states that arise when we stub our toe is the fruit of karma. when the mind state arises and manifests into intentional action weather it be thought, bodily action, or speech that is creation of karma.
it breaks down like this:
stub toe, get ticked and shout profanities- this is action by speech, the intention behind this action is anger.
action with anger as intention- creates karma, the very action creates an impression in the mind.
get cut off in traffic, get ticked flip off the other driver- bodily action with anger as the intention. the reason why you react in anger is because you conditioned the mind to react to theses situations in that way. this action creates karma. reinforcing that same impression in the mind.
lose you last man on super Mario bros.- you curse the video game, action with anger as intention. creates yet more karma, reinforcing that same tendency in the mind. next time outer conditions are met anger will arise and you will act again and reap the same results and act again and reap and act and reap. endless.
i tried to keep it simple with my example to better explain it. it gets way more deeper than
Quote
According to this website (http://www.ncf.carleton.ca/freenet/rootdir/menus/sigs/religion/buddhism/introduction/truths/karma2.html), karma is a bhuddist concept.
Indeed it is a buddhist concept. Hinduism came before buddhism, and Karma is well established in the Hindu faith as well.
I'm no theologian, but I believe the concept is along the same lines in both Hinduism and Buddism.
Back to the topic, as a former Marijuana user I don't have much good to say about it besides that it does give a different perspective on things. I can be more creative on it sometimes. However, the depression, anxiety, obsession, laziness, paranoia, slovenly-like behaviour/sideaffects that go along with it far outweigh the upside.
SiVA I dont know where you get yours but I never feel any depression, anxiety, obsession, or paranoia when I toke and I live in vancouver BC.
It's okay. The situation is resolved. Depression, paranoia etc come from long term heavy users of hydroponically grown marijuana. I know that the idea of Karma might not stop very many people from doing what they do, but he's not very many people. He himself believes in the mechanics of Karma and is always open to ideas. I can live with the fact that he will grow marijuana. I just needed to find a way to word myself correctly so that I would know that my opinion didn't go unheard. I'm not going to sit here and harass him into doing what I want. Everyone has the freedom to do what they see fit. I'll share my thoughts once and once only.
I've never thought that Karma would affect me negatively if I took a neutral standpoint. I'd always thought that do nothing, get nothing. But that's a matter for debate. As long as I'm not consciously trying to achieve a negative result. I don't feel that him growing and selling will affect my own Karma, but his. Anyway, the situation is resolved, like i said.
Thanks. :smile:
Whether you call it 'karma' or 'cause and effect' or 'what goes around comes around', we each do, in effect, 'reap what we sow'.
That being said, we can advise our friends as to what we think is a good and healthy (physically, mentally and spiritually) course of actions for life, but each of us has to work out our lives for ourselves. If some one chooses to think or believe that marijuana is a substitute for a genuinely acheived heigthened conciousness, then they will have to learn the dead end that using marijuana for that purpose, truly is.
Quite often we create philosophies that are convenient to our own foibles rather than taking the harder road of a philosophy that demands much of us, by constantly looking at our own ignorances and facing them. But that requires a rather consistent sense of humbleness and a readiness to accept our own mistakes readily.
Indeed, some substances can create a temporary glimples of levels of reality that are not of the ordinary type. But these are not permanent or earned experiences, only shadows of what might be possible.
Absolutely gdo, absolutely. Thanks for the comment. :grin:
Quote from: MindFreakSiVA I dont know where you get yours but I never feel any depression, anxiety, obsession, or paranoia when I toke and I live in vancouver BC.
Depression arises when coming down from it, or the next morning when I feel like excrement.
Anxiety comes when knowing I have a toke waiting for me, but I have to do something first (like work).
By obsession, I'm referring to how addictive it can be.
Paranoia: It's no secret about this one...
Sure everyone reacts differently, but I would argue that a large percentage of people who use it or have used it have experienced these symptoms. If anyone argues this point they are either immune to these problems or they are in denial or they are new to the drug.
When I started, for the first year or two, it was awesome! Talk about having fun! But your body adjusts over time and reacts differently.
Yea on karma for one sec from a Buddhist perspective , as BoscosFriend said it is based on the intention behind an action, also many people falsely perceive karma as a purely mystical mumbo jumbo thing but it goes beyond that. It's not a big hourglass that adds a bit more sand to each side based on what you do, it relates to your actions and the positive or negative effects they may have. There's more too it than that but anyway.
Back on track, i don't personally think there are any shocking side effects with short term marijuana use, i think it can actually be quite beneficial for some. The main side effect that i can see though is that a user can ( and most probably will ) become mentally dependent on it, and the side effects of long term use then are basically those listed above. So you may need to convince your friend not to sell it, ( i may have interpreted it wrongly but is that what he intends to do ) as I'm not sure about where you live but here i know that it is illegal and going to jail or getting a heavy fine is a side effect no-one should have to cope with.
Ive been toking very often for about 12 years and I dont remember any of those side effects. Maybe when I first started. As for the addiction, that is purely mental because weed itself is not an addictive substance.
Like I said, not all fall into the same group as I do. There are people who use it all of their life and don't experience this (my father is one of these people!).
But the other group, like me, react differently. Mostly everyone who tokes knows someone who gets paranoid on it...
Parnoia I guess I used to experience but that was more because I was still under the rule of my parents and I was paranoid that I would get caught.
Aha!! Getting caught! We may evade the scrutiny of those in authority over us for a time, be they parents or other types of responsible persons.
We can even deceive ourselves. We can escape into a convenient and less stressful fantasy.
We do also ingrain these episodes into our subconsciousness and eventually the dichotomy of what we seek and what we propose and what we really do catches up with us. We catch ourselves. We create unsolvable conundrums for ourselves. Hence the ancient myths about LABYRINTHS and such. We seek to find the way out of situations of our own making. We can rationalize the effects of our conscience, with our desires to make a philosophical argument for our mistakes.
Our Conscience is a form of a higher consciousness. :roll:
How inventive and we all are. How wonderful the things we can create.
Yea as far as i know there are no proven physical side effects... (i may very well be wrong so fell free to correct me) as the body does not develop any physical addiction as such anything associated with addiction is purely a mental dependation. Funnily enough there was a study done in africa where a tribe smoked marijuana and there were no noted side effects, a few tribe members were told (and convinced) that paranoia and obsesionality were known side effects. One of the tribes members shortly afterwards suffered from a severe case of insomnia and paranoia. Those not told of the effects were fine... Placebo effect anyone :)
Maybe not the classic 'plaebo effect' but the power of suggestion... maybe.
Nonetheless, the illusion of strength is not real strength, using a calculator to do math does not mean that you can actually DO the math. Using a drug to imitate an experience does not mean you OWN the knowledge of the experience. Not all people have the same experience using marijuana, but all who learn to use discipline and really study and work at what is necessary for them to achieve a higher level of consciousness can do it.
Is a brewer to blame for alcoholism?
Only alcoholics are to blame. But the brewer does contribute.
What does the brewer contribute?
A human body in the course of it processes makes alcohol.
Take a can of frozen concentrated OJ to a lab and have it tested.;
There will always be a small amts of alcohol in it. Natural sugars will always be subject to change by different forms of bacteria resulting in CO2 and Alcohol.
Natural alcohol and deliberately using marijuana are 2 different things. Both alter the normal forms of consciousness that we experience, but there is a difference in the effects and the processes involved.
Do you eat bread?
BTW what is the 'house of bread'?
Quote from: gdoWhat does the brewer contribute?
A human body in the course of it processes makes alcohol.
I was using the word brewer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brewing) to describe people who produce beer and other alcoholic drinks.
Brewers, distillers and fermenters make a product. So did buggy whip producers. If no one used a specific product, then there would be no demand for it, eventually the product maker would have to make something else.
Should people who have allergies to or problems digesting cows milk blame the dairies? Is it the cows fault?
We all have different susceptibilities and weaknesses. We also all have different strengths.
No one said the brewers were at fault but they still contribute. You cannot say that they do not contribute to alcoholism because they do, the contribute the alcohol. But that doesnt mean they are to blame. They arent. Only the alcoholics are to blame, only they are at fault. But the brewer does contribute.
I wonder if groups of people can be "affected" by a common karma. If they are bound by common traditions celebrations faith or activities. Maybe it is not entirely politically correct but what about New Orleans? and to all you who live there try to see this from a purely theoretical point of view. This could be also be the USA, or France. Just a question...........and for the record I believe that Karma is a real thing......but have different names. Cause and effect, consequence, reap what you sow or what have you! I see it at play in my own life as well.
this is kind of a silly thread (in a sense), and i know everything has pretty much been covered, but karma doesn't apply to the actual function of selling pot. i think the mystical & ancient understandings of cause 'n' effect are being filtered through some christianity here. pot is illegal therefore it's wrong, therefore it creates bad karma. it's that same thing about avoiding the woods and sticking to the main path...bcuz the woods are mysterious, filled with magic mushrooms, hungry wolves, and thieves in hiding. karma doesn't really work in extremes...like deadly sins & saving graces. it's more subtle.
a guy can stand all day long on a corner with all the pot he can carry, and he isn't generating any karma at all. he can sell all the pot he wants and he's still not "contributing" to anything, as has been implied. now what he does with the money he makes from selling pot is another story, and that's where i find this issue interesting. in the scheme of which this discussion was established, there is much more "evil" in a five dollar bill, then all the cannabis sativa on the planet. with this understanding i am assuming that the pot is home grown. that's the only way to ensure karma free-trade!!! if it has anything to do with black markets, third worlds, king pins, trafficking, governments & ghettos...then yes...i'll correct myself and say bad karma is being generated, but as i also mentioned above...it's more from "purchasing power" where the money changes hands...then anything else.
just as much harm can be done buying a coffee at starbuck's or a sweater from old navy! important to stick to your own karmic state only. even the act of trying to "fix" someone else, and save them from their lessons, can produce some murky karma for yourself.
2 cents
soul
Your 2 cents worth has just doubled the value of this conversation!
Thank you Soul for a more useful perspective on karma.
I feel that many people get an idea of karma being some "cosmic police force". Not only that, the religious aspects of wrong & right tend to muddy the mix an awful lot.
It's not even really a matter of cause and effect. At it's simplest form, look at it as our soul deciding to do something positive to repay something negative we've done.
No one makes us do it. No one enforces karma. Its our own choice.
Its just one of the tools our souls use to evolve.
I'm not going anywhere near the pot thing as I'm so over drug debates / conversations here. They've been done to death!
Then they've been resurrected, beaten around some more & done to death again!
Funny they never seem to evolve though. So much for the buddhist's philosophies on reincarnation!
:smile:
James.
Hi all
Well with all due respect, I think you are both seeing things from a too "convenient" side, and purposely or accidentally devalue the issue maybe to make it more manageable by tossing in the odd "anti christian" quib.
I am fully aware that I come from a very Christian based point of view (which should actually have inoculated me against Karma and not the other way around ha) still I do find the metaphor about the woods profoundly contradictory. Are you saying that there is no reason to stay on the path? Are you saying that the woods are as harmless as the path?
This discussion seems to be between those who want no rules no right or wrong vs those who believe that life has absolutes and that you do reap what you sow both here and in the hereafter.
Choices and consequences is a vital part of life and without it you could do nothing and would not grow or mature, it is my opinion that unless we learn this, and we are all learning, we remain stagnant and childlike in our approach to life and the meaning of it.
To me that is Karma
Regards Mustardseed
Nothing anti-christian in my comment.
All "strictly adhered to" philosophies - or religions tend to do the same thing regarding adding right / wrong values to karma.
I agree that it is about choices and consequences, and our choices are very important to our spiritual evolution.
What I'm saying is that we, that is, our own spirit selves, are the judges of our own actions. When in spirit, we are the ones that decide if we have acted in love or not, and we are the ones that decide what repparations, if any, we need to make in order to learn and move forward.
What I'm trying to get away from is the idea that karma is enforced in any way by an agent external to ourselves, and define it as a measure outside of cause and effect.
Was that clearer or did I just confuse things more? :question:
Blessings,
James.
Quote from: James SWhat I'm saying is that we, that is, our own spirit selves, are the judges of our own actions. When in spirit, we are the ones that decide if we have acted in love or not, and we are the ones that decide what repparations, if any, we need to make in order to learn and move forward.
What I'm trying to get away from is the idea that karma is enforced in any way by an agent external to ourselves, and define it as a measure outside of cause and effect.
Hi James
I don't think you confuse things at all, your input is as always quite concise and easily understood, at least to me. I guess what I am looking for is common ground, not that we absolutely have to "have some" but more along the lines of trying to debate and see if we do. Your comment about "strictly adhered to belief systems" made me wonder if your definition of Christian is too rigid? It seems to me that on the contrary those who adhere to this belief (Christianity) come in way more sizes and shapes i.e. variety of belief than many other religions.
To me that would mean that you would have to define which kind of Christian you consider for the metaphor or argument to be for so to speak. It appears to me that though it is not only in Christianity most religions could and maybe should be divided into 2 categories, those who believe they have the full picture and have stopped learning and exploring, and those who find out new things about their faith on an ongoing basis.
I have myself been very rigid in the past youth will do that to you but have in my later years come to understand that the more I learn the more I realize I know so incredibly little, and that there are so many more things to learn that the mind boggles. This attitude will insure an openness to new thinking and I find it sadly missing in the New Age community and the AP as well. It appears that the AP dogma, has become quite rigid and is fast approaching "critical mass" :-) and subsequent hardening .
The term or idea of a astral police force, coined by RB, is one of these ever expanding issues. I have thought a lot about it and have come to the conclusion that I really do not know. If I use the term in a way it is used here I would agree that there seem to be no interference when different activities are explored, been there and done that, yet what if the Astral as we know it is only a part of the whole? what if it is in a way like that movie about LA becoming a giant jail, no rules nothing, not that astral work is criminal but as a metaphor of a closed system.
It appears that it is pretty safe to assume that there are some rules that are in play, like attracts like etc as well as some form of Karma or retribution or whatever, so I am open to the possibility that the astral is a giant petri dish and yes in that dish there appears to be no police.
Do you catch my drift James? It is in my opinion truly a matter of thinking outside the box, whatever box you are presently in, staying open and not closed to new ideas or differing opinions.
Regards Mustardseed
dear m.seed,
i understand the woods to represent the divine principal (being taboo), and the ultimate 'unknown' (world of mystery) and the path being completely 'male-based' and the accepted/est. "right" or given (world of science). i'm not saying that one is any better then the other...again, they are what they are.
i have come to the conclusion that 'the path' holds much more in the way of negative karma...but that's only based on my knowledge of it working in incomplete circles (more in straight lines & weak dimensions). it's made to take advantage and use up things in peoples own personal agendas.
this is actually more difficult for me to explain than i thought...as it goes in so many directions, and on so many levels.
for me the woods have always held more information, faster, clearer, more common sense lessons, sustenance, life, and a certain space that is reserved for me as natural. the woods spark & feed my creativity, give a solid sense of self-worth, and heals me on a very deep level. i'm speaking both metaphorically & literally. the wood inspires my heart with its beauty, satisfies my mind with its simple logic, and stirs my spirit with its intense mystery...maybe bcuz i'm an earth sign, or a woman, a solo practitioner, or a freak?!? i don't care about the whys, the who's & hows. i can practice independence off the path and that outweighs many things for me.
it is in fact "my path". not better or worse...just different.
i could go on and on about all that 'i' find 'wrong' with the established path (for me the "system" is seriously flawed), but i doubt y'all want to hear me complain. all in all you can't complicate karma. it is what it is, like love or water. it's existence is beyond whatever we believe it to be.
as for christianity...it was only one religious example, but since you have chosen to focus on it. i have a bit of a problem with taking the "work" of jesus (who was all about karma) & having men incessantly manipulate it over the centuries into a dogma to control, scare, and attack others with.
i am not anti-conscious when it comes to christ or jesus. i just have a hard time listening to others "explain" it to me. it's completely unnecessary.
all the greatest influences from our history (known & unknown) have come from those who laid down their own path with each step.
none of them were followers.
soul
Dear Soul
Do pardon my frankness but maybe a inspiring conversation is to be had if none of us take themselves too serious. I seem to get the vibe that you may just be a hurting woman, maybe someone who has suffered physically or emotionally at the hands of men????
If so be aware that this does not add to your objectiveness but on the contrary makes your statements a bit shall we say suspicious.
It appears you have a female agenda......another problem if we are trying to ascertain the validity of a male such as Jesus or Buddha or whoever................just to bait you have you ever wondered why no major religious figure is female............I would have to say maybe they are too smart ha.
As far as your statement goes:
"for me the woods have always held more information, faster, clearer, more common sense lessons, sustenance, life, and a certain space that is reserved for me as natural. the woods spark & feed my creativity, give a solid sense of self-worth, and heals me on a very deep level. I'm speaking both metaphorically & literally. the wood inspires my heart with its beauty, satisfies my mind with its simple logic, and stirs my spirit with its intense mystery.."
We seem to just suffer from a problem in definition....I feel like you do but in my way of thinking , my terminology, I call your woods my path.
So come one souly take the bait, no harm intended and James lets hear your always welcome input as well.
Regards Mustardseed
Hi MS,
I like the 2 distinct types of "religious" people you mention - the dogmatic and the spiritual.
Maybey I should use the term "religious" less, and the term "dogmatic" more. It puts forward more of the meaning I'm looking for.
I do believe I have probably over-simplified the concept of karma. But what I've described is the aspect of it that I am currently conceptually comfortable with. Further experience may add to my concepts, but I tend to not like over thinking or over complicating things.
In this way, I distinguish karma from the laws of cause and effect, like attracts like, and exchange of energy. They are their own individual entities, but like energies I see within the study of numerology, each individial number, each individual entity, has its own energy which then blends together with other energies to form a mosaic - a complete picture.
As yet I cannot see the mosaic that karma is a part of, so I look at the individual energy and try to get to know it better.
Thinking about your comment about no major female figures in religion, well, it seems you may be only considering the Piscean age religions that grew out of Judaeism. Think about the religions that have been around much much longer and you see major figures like Isis, Freya, Aphrodite, Maat, Quan Yin, Ceridwen, Diana, Gaia, Ishtar, Shiva, Sarasvati, Venus.... the list goes on and on.
Consider though that in the older religions there was always a balance between male & female - Isis & Osiris, Quan-Yin & Avalokitesvara (female & male aspects of the same entity), Herne & Diana, and the one many "dogmatic" christians will argue against - Jesus & Mary.
I know this is a little off-topic, but I feel it important that Soul's female perspective be looked at here, as I do believe that she is correct in that many current esoteric & religious beliefs do have a male bias.
Blessings,
James.
dear james, thanks for summing up the main focus on female deities, the balance of, the older systems, etc. saved me from going on about it...which tends to get me rambling off point.
as for being a jaded woman...yes, i suppose to a certain degree i am comfortable with admitting that...but at the hand of men?!? absolutely not! at my own doing only. i surmise my jadedness as that state of the "serious student", but that doesn't mean that i'm lacking a sense of humour either. i'm definitely not a "feminist" if that's what you're implying. i love men! i would love even more to get a point where the words male & female didn't exist, but that's asking a lot (still) in this day 'n' age. i mean...we're still working with black & white, straight & gay, up & down, and all that. in that light i think it would be too much for me to ask of others (and i'm misinterpreted enough as is :wink:).
as for your precious christianity and the lack of female involvement...it's hard for me to put into words. there is a feeling a betrayal there, that calls to me from beyond. it was omitted for a reason, and without trying to explain that reason...i'll just say that i feel it was (as with the idea of women) too much, too sacred, too key...and in that the idea that it has always been hidden, protected...for a more fitting time. you may notice that more & more of the divine aspect of the christian faith is coming to light. good in the sense that it will bring it into balance...finally.
i don't hate the playa's or the game...but i can be as you say 'serious' at times. i hold myself highly accountable as a unique function, as a woman, and as part of the whole. on that account...i'm not one to let others off easily, especially men! i have a great amount of empathy for the modern man and the system he's created/inherited from his fathers before him. this has a lot to do with the lack of "coming to age" rituals, but that's even more off-topic. it would be nice to garner the same respect from men in general...that when i look back on my life, and my involvement with men in particular...there is nothing of great significance that was passed along; and i can't say that that doesn't bother me!
i see it all swinging into balance as it should. my energy is utilized most...for appreciating the rhythm of it all, and finding peace in the process. i'm sorry if i don't convey that clearly 2 U.
Dear Soul and James
Thanks for the update, I hope you were not offended it was not my intent. As you so aptly explained the male female issue is very big in the world and I as yourself feel sorry for the men and their frustrated attempts at righting the past wrongs while at the same time avoiding falling into the same trap. It is however much the same on the other side of the fence. Just today I had a conversation with my partner (female) about the irritation I feel when females try to gain favor through "being cute" the sort of batting the eyelids and using feminine charms, it is so immature and entirely........effective. Ha I believe that it is the secret weapon that all women have and use at will........even you. In every way as much of a burden to carry as the masculinity. Just look at your Picture. I am starting to wonder if we should just allow people to decide themselves if they want to use the old or new gender association. Seems fair.
On the issue of the feminine Gods and goddesses I would still say that all though among worshiped deities both are represented, as far as religious leaders, and God heads men seem to be much in the majority.
Regards MS
as for my avatars...it's an alter-ego thing, and one of my artistic passions as well. i love fantasy-erotica...always have. think it started with the vamperella comics in the playboy magazines that my dad kept in the bathroom. :wink:
frank frazetta, sailor jerry, betty page, betty grable, betty boop, marilyn monroe, etc, etc...and yes it's fascination has always carried a conundrum. that wonderful faux-naive/princess syndrome act that works in almost all situations, and the idea of such passive manipulation also demonstrating great intelligence & power. anyway...that's beside the point.
for someone that's been celibate going on nine years now...i've moved out of that sexual system of power-playing, competing with other women for attention, blaming one sex or the other (in the small picture of things), etc. a lot people think that being celibate is simply abstaining from sex, but it's a self-discipline that really opens your eyes in relation to how all people behave for the most part...impossible to relate to unless one is in the same boat. that in itself makes it hard for others to understand where 'exactly' i'm coming from...despite the avatar.
there was a point in time when women were in control of just about everything 'important'. they were the land owners, paper holders, they made all the major decisions concerning their tribes/family. they were the healers, teachers, soothsayers, prophets, shamans, life-givers, etc. there's very little of that left, and even less 'documented' in history, but the current state of affairs shouldn't influence your thinking as greatly as it does. the table is turning as we speak.
soul
Quote from: MustardseedOn the issue of the feminine Gods and goddesses I would still say that all though among worshiped deities both are represented, as far as religious leaders, and God heads men seem to be much in the majority.
Maybey female deities don't feel the need to show off as much! :mrgreen:
And no, I never feel any offence form your posts MS. You put forward your points in a calm and friendly manner. Makes it much easier to discuss different views. :smile:
My thoughts about your point of females trying to gain favour the way you mention, yes it is a clever tactic on their behalf. Gods know I always fall for it! But then I'm a sucker for a pretty smile (or a bathtub full of clotted cream... Soul :wink: ).
Still, I believe it comes down to the balance thing again. If men didn't feel the need to show aggressive & bossy macho behaviours, women wouldn't need to seduce or cajole through feminine charms.
Ancient civilisations have shown much more even balance in the male & female roles. A Celtic man would not have thought himself any less manly by helping his partner work the fields or gather fruit. Nor would he have felt his manhood threatened if his partner were better with a sword in battle than he.
Blessings,
James.
Ok, now I am getting off topic. How did we get here? No don't tell me, I'll find the way.
<James goes off behaving like a typical male refusing to ask for directions>
OK then back to the subject. My question is or was if entire groups of people cities countries etc and maybe even gender are being matured taught or influenced by a principle like karma. I am thinking here in a wider sense of the word than being reborn as a blonde cause you cheated on your girlfriend, or as the Hindu tradition hints, some lover form of existence.
Is karma at play in all spheres of life? I think so. I just have a different definition or terminology for KARMA.
Incidental though not really accepted by the majority of Christianity it is my own strong belief and I believe it can be justified by scripture, that the Holy Spirit is female. It is also the clear understanding that all Christians are to take female traits in a sense and are to count themselves as the bride of Christ. Submission etc
Indeed it seems that things are changing, and though the men in charge are not willingly giving up their power over THINGS, the life of the spirit that seem to be changing our world, is no doubt more important and in every way a feminine energy. The men who can embrace this will do themselves a favor. Men should be thankful that they are learning to understand women, some men say "I never can understand a woman no one can" but I think that after changing a few thousand diapers blowing noses and not being able to think about sex because the house is messy and tomorrow is laundry day, after a while they will at least appreciate them a whole lot more and who knows maybe marriages will start to last more than 2 months.
Just heard Brittney is getting a divorce ha. I guess women already had a swing at being men in the 70s ..............so tell us did you learn anything?
Regards Mustardseed
just out of curiosity MS...are you male or female???
did i learn anything?!? seeing as i was born in '68...i'm not sure. that decade did have a profound effect on me though. and as the '80s sucked the big donkey-kong :wink:, the '90s were a mess, and this...well this is just getting crazy. i think i'm still trying to implement the stuff i learned in a past life!?!
Male, (Scorpio w Libra rising and Gemini moon if you are into that kind of thing)