The Astral Pulse

Mushroom drug produces mystical experience (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060711/ap_on_sc/psychedelic_research_1)

NEW YORK - People who took an illegal drug made from mushrooms reported profound mystical experiences that led to behavior changes lasting for weeks — all part of an experiment that recalls the psychedelic '60s.

Many of the 36 volunteers rated their reaction to a single dose of the drug, called psilocybin, as one of the most meaningful or spiritually significant experiences of their lives. Some compared it to the birth of a child or the death of a parent.

Such comments "just seemed unbelievable," said Roland Griffiths of the Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine in Baltimore, the study's lead author.

But don't try this at home, he warned. "Absolutely don't."

Almost a third of the research participants found the drug experience frightening even in the very controlled setting. That suggests people experimenting with the illicit drug on their own could be harmed, Griffiths said.

Viewed by some as a landmark, the study is one of the few rigorous looks in the past 40 years at a hallucinogen's effects. The researchers suggest the drug someday may help drug addicts kick their habit or aid terminally ill patients struggling with anxiety and depression.

It may also provide a way to study what happens in the brain during intense spiritual experiences, the scientists said.

Funded in part by the federal government, the research was published online Tuesday by the journal Psychopharmacology.

Psilocybin has been used for centuries in religious practices, and its ability to produce a mystical experience is no surprise. But the new work demonstrates it more clearly than before, Griffiths said.

Even two months after taking the drug, pronounced SILL-oh-SY-bin, most of the volunteers said the experience had changed them in beneficial ways, such as making them more compassionate, loving, optimistic and patient. Family members and friends said they noticed a difference, too.

Charles Schuster, a professor of psychiatry and behavioral neuroscience at Wayne State University and a former director of the National Institute on Drug Abuse, called the work a landmark.

"I believe this is one of the most rigorously well-controlled studies ever done" to evaluate psilocybin or similar substances for their potential to increase self-awareness and a sense of spirituality, he said. He did not participate in the research.

Psilocybin, like LSD or mescaline, is one of a class of drugs called hallucinogens or psychedelics. While they have been studied by scientists in the past, research was largely shut down after widespread recreational abuse of the drugs during the 1960s, Griffiths said. Some work resumed in the 1990s.

"We've lost 40 years of (potential) research experience with this whole class of compounds," he said. Now, with modern-day scientific methods, "I think it's time to pick up this research field."

The study volunteers had an average age of 46, had never used hallucinogens, and participated to some degree in religious or spiritual activities like prayer, meditation, discussion groups or religious services. Each tried psilocybin during one visit to the lab and the stimulant methylphenidate (better known as
Ritalin) on one or two other visits. Only six of the volunteers knew when they were getting psilocybin.

Each visit lasted eight hours. The volunteers lay on a couch in a living-room-like setting, wearing an eye mask and listening to classical music. They were encouraged to focus their attention inward.

Psilocybin's effects lasted for up to six hours, Griffiths said. Twenty-two of the 36 volunteers reported having a "complete" mystical experience, compared to four of those getting methylphenidate.

That experience included such things as a sense of pure awareness and a merging with ultimate reality, a transcendence of time and space, a feeling of sacredness or awe, and deeply felt positive mood like joy, peace and love. People say "they can't possibly put it into words," Griffiths said.

Two months later, 24 of the participants filled out a questionnaire. Two-thirds called their reaction to psilocybin one of the five top most meaningful experiences of their lives. On another measure, one-third called it the most spiritually significant experience of their lives, with another 40 percent ranking it in the top five.

About 80 percent said that because of the psilocybin experience, they still had a sense of well-being or life satisfaction that was raised either "moderately" or "very much."

Seriously, I need a life transforming experience. It'd be nice to rid myself of all anxiety and fear that has plagued me for the better part of my life. Is this stuff legal?

kevin

Quote from: RunLola on July 14, 2006, 11:04:43
mushrooms are not legal in the US

Few things seem to be any more in the "land of the free".

Not in Canada either, but they grow everywhere.

Quote from: knucklebrain1970 on July 14, 2006, 08:02:13
Seriously, I need a life transforming experience. It'd be nice to rid myself of all anxiety and fear that has plagued me for the better part of my life. Is this stuff legal?

kevin

You'd have to leave the U.S. to do it. There are retreats like Blue Morpho (http://www.bluemorphotours.com/) that specialize in this.

many years ago, friends and I would gather psilocybe cubensis, the type that grows out of cow paddies after a rain or very humid weather.

There is a poisonous variety, so you have to be an expert at identifying them.

We even cooked magic mushroom omelets, (just found this site http://www.mushroomjohn.com/samui1.htm )

We were in the country-side and the experience was very smooth. (I don't think trying this in a busy city is reccomended as the concentration of human monsters is too high.)

Felt as if I could communicate, or commune with all the plants and trees, the "one-ness" feeling so to speak, and in that respect it was a spiritual experience.

However, I don't agree with:
"It may also provide a way to study what happens in the brain during intense spiritual experiences, the scientists said."

IMHO, Chemically confusing the brain cell synapse is not the path to "spirituality". For example, what do you think is more productive, taking mushrooms every day, or learning to meditate and having these experiences with a sharp and clear mind?

With that said, mushrooms could be beneficial as a providing a very temporary peek into altered consciousness, and only beneficial if it leads to the practice of meditation for example.

IMHO, a common trap is to think that these chemicals taken repeatidly will continue to help. The benefit is only a one time deal, and you have to drop it and just get to work on the real deal.

Quote from: RunLola on July 15, 2006, 12:28:25
wow, has anyone gone to that?
I wonder what it's like for a woman to go alone. :|.

Wonder not. (http://www.nationalgeographic.com/adventure/0603/features/peru.html)

Quote from: RunLola on July 14, 2006, 11:04:43
mushrooms are not legal in the US

Depends on the type and form of the 'shroom. I believe Amanita Muscaria mushrooms are sold all over the internet as items for "collectors" and those can certainly be as potent as the average psilocybin mushroom in my opinion.

Psilocybin is illegal though...but it isn't like you can't find some growing in huge quantities if you are in the right area at the right time.

Quote from: WindGod on July 15, 2006, 12:57:51
However, I don't agree with:
"It may also provide a way to study what happens in the brain during intense spiritual experiences, the scientists said."

IMHO, Chemically confusing the brain cell synapse is not the path to "spirituality". For example, what do you think is more productive, taking mushrooms every day, or learning to meditate and having these experiences with a sharp and clear mind?

With that said, mushrooms could be beneficial as a providing a very temporary peek into altered consciousness, and only beneficial if it leads to the practice of meditation for example.

I think the key words above are 'intense spiritual experiences', which are fairly common with psychedelic use but decidedly rare with meditation alone.
While I agree meditation as a long term solution to spiritual progress is best, meditation alone rarely produces moments of rapture and intense spiritual awakening. So as a means to study the brain during these moments, it's pretty useless. Unless you are able to find competent meditators who are willing to be hooked up to machines daily, for years on end (until such an event occurs).
Regardless of our beliefs, we cannot escape the fact that all experience is filtered through a chemical brain (even if you believe the brain is simply an interface for an external mind). So in a sense, all our spiritual experiences are chemical induced. The difference being, psychedelics are an external agent (Although in most cases they are simply a key to certain brain reactions which causes the experience, rather than the cause itself. Such as LSD being removed from the brain before the experience starts).

Quote
IMHO, a common trap is to think that these chemicals taken repeatidly will continue to help. The benefit is only a one time deal, and you have to drop it and just get to work on the real deal.

I both agree and disagree with the above. Repeated psychedelic experience might not be effective if taken in the wrong circumstances, but it can produce very long term changes if taken in the correct circumstances with the correct supervision.
If you are interested in this, then look into the experiments done throughout the 50s-60s-70s-80s which utilised psychedelics in roles from psychotherapy, treating alcoholism and drug abuse (with very high recovery rates), removing fear of death from terminally ill patients, to treating medical conditions.
I could find out references for you to look into if you are particularly interested.

Ps. It was Government run psychedelic experience which generally started off the 60s movement. Ken Kesey who was one of the leaders of that movement (with his Merry pranksters) was introduced to psychedelics in such a paid trial.
Also of interest are the experiments the CIA carried out on unsuspecting members of the public, they dosed unsuspecting people visiting brothels and observed them. Although this sounds the stuff of conspiracy theory, details of these experiments were found in Government files through the use of the Freedom of Information Act.

Details of these things can be found here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_MKULTRA

And a fascinating book on this subject is:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0802130623/sr=8-1/qid=1153053358/ref=pd_bbs_1/002-8467581-2547210?ie=UTF8

Quote from: dextro on July 16, 2006, 08:08:15
Depends on the type and form of the 'shroom. I believe Amanita Muscaria mushrooms are sold all over the internet as items for "collectors" and those can certainly be as potent as the average psilocybin mushroom in my opinion.

Psilocybin is illegal though...but it isn't like you can't find some growing in huge quantities if you are in the right area at the right time.

I'd just like to say the effects of Amanita Muscaria are very different to psilocybin (normal mushrooms). Research these things at  http://www.erowid.org to see the differences.

I'd like to state that the Astral Pulse does not recommend any kind of drug use.  I haven't read the whole thread but just wanted to put that out there.

http://www.nationalgeographic.com/adventure/0603/features/peru.html

I copy/pasted it into my address bar and it worked.  :?

Are you getting a page not found error?

Quote from: MisterJingoIf you are interested in this, then look into the experiments done throughout the 50s-60s-70s-80s which utilised psychedelics in roles from psychotherapy, treating alcoholism and drug abuse (with very high recovery rates), removing fear of death from terminally ill patients, to treating medical conditions.

Yeah, research and finding treatments is good. I liked some of Leary's work with finding ways to report inner visual experiences. He enlisted a group of Psychonauts and trained them to identify colors by their frequency. So they didn't use the names of colors, rather, they were able to report the frequency of the colors numerically in a very efficient way in realtime.

Could some of these methods of observation and reporting have potential in helping people who say "there are no words to describe my experience" to communicate the inexplicable to us lowly earthly mud sluggers?

Eventually, Leary wanted to stimulate the psychedelic experience visually with out the use of the chemical with plans to develop an image projector that projects directly onto the eye's retina, creating a truly immersive simulation.

Searching for mandala imagery to create the simulations was part of this effort.

I wasn't impressed with Kesey. A writer who published a book about going on an extended binge with a party of friends, riding crosscountry on a bus covered in fingerpaintings.

And the gov'mt finding ways to use these substances as weapons? They have to, that's their job.

In that respect, they have (supposidly) attempted to use psychic's remote viewing as a way to spy on the enemy's military capabilities as well.

this is getting too complicated, I think I'd rather be like the mushroom, just feed me dung and keep me in the dark.  :wink:

Quote from: WindGod on July 17, 2006, 22:20:41
Yeah, research and finding treatments is good. I liked some of Leary's work with finding ways to report inner visual experiences. He enlisted a group of Psychonauts and trained them to identify colors by their frequency. So they didn't use the names of colors, rather, they were able to report the frequency of the colors numerically in a very efficient way in realtime.

Could some of these methods of observation and reporting have potential in helping people who say "there are no words to describe my experience" to communicate the inexplicable to us lowly earthly mud sluggers?

Possibly. But I think it would require a change in our thinking processes. Abstractions fascinate me as they plant ideas below the level of conscious interpretation (and consequently words), such ideas are allowed to grow within a persons own spheres of belief and experience. I think this could be a way of sharing direct experience without losing the detail we see with word translated experience. I have a number of projects in this area.

Quote
I wasn't impressed with Kesey. A writer who published a book about going on an extended binge with a party of friends, riding crosscountry on a bus covered in fingerpaintings.

I actually have more respect for Kesey than Leary. Kesey was the author who wrote 'one flew over the cuckoos nest' (written mostly while on psychedelics working in a mental institution – they gave him an understanding of the mental disorders of the patients there). The book detailing the bus journey was written by Tom Wolfe, and was based on what Kesey actually did.
Kesey was a creative. He took all profits from his book, bought a bus (further), and converted it to carry a group of people. The bus was wired up with a lot of stereo and recording equipment – lots of feedback going on, such as microphones outside, under the bus, on top etc feeding back into the equipment, being looped, echoed etc and used as a creative medium to 'rap' against (creative dialogue).
He then painted the bus with a group and took it across country.
His journey was in essence a spiritual one. He saw much of what was going on at the time as being entrenched in the past, trying to relive the past, but with a modern mindset (conflict). He tried to create such things within our own mindset and cultural influences – move it to the modern mindset.
The bus journey was like an experiment into self and reality. They were pushing the boundaries of humanity, being 'out front' (not held back by their social conditioning, not getting hung up or possessed by emotion or intention etc), they were attempting to live in the moment as far as biology would allow (their being a delay in nerve transmission), and perhaps the biggest experiment of all, they were bringing the world into 'their movie'. They shot a movie of the whole trip, but it was more then that, it was a group influencing and creating their own reality. Bringing people into it to get the outcome the group desired. Literally what is talked about here (belief effecting reality), they went out on the road and put it into action.
Through trying to externalise the psychedelic experience (With light and sound devices), what we know as the modern rave/disco/nightclub was born (ala Keseys Acid Tests). Also, much of the direction the hippy movement took was influenced by Kesey. But they were always behind him, he progressed past the point, and they rode the trail he left behind.
Eventually kesey advocated moving beyond LSD, that creative maelstrom being brought into the present through natural means and our own power – this was realised in a 'Graduation Ceremony'. But many of the Heads of the time felt threatened by this as Drugs gave them their status and power, so they really sabotaged this ceremony and consequently cause it to fail.
If you are open minded on such maters, do some research into kesey outside of the mainstream media branded stuff. Also, reading that book by Tom Wolfe (The electric kool-aid acid test), if you look beyond the drug use (a means to an immediate end), you see a lot of deeply spiritual ideas and concepts.
It was so much more than I've described above, but I think I've scracthed the surface of it.

Quote
And the gov'mt finding ways to use these substances as weapons? They have to, that's their job.

In that respect, they have (supposidly) attempted to use psychic's remote viewing as a way to spy on the enemy's military capabilities as well.

I think the problem with the Government experimenting with such substances is the way they went about they. At one point, they literally dosed countless random public members with psychedelics, and literally watched them as they thought they were going mad (they didn't know they had been dosed).

Quote
this is getting too complicated, I think I'd rather be like the mushroom, just feed me dung and keep me in the dark.  :wink:

Sounds like a plan  :-D.

Quote from: MisterJingo on July 18, 2006, 07:56:01
I actually have more respect for Kesey than Leary. Kesey was the author who wrote 'one flew over the cuckoos nest' (written mostly while on psychedelics working in a mental institution – they gave him an understanding of the mental disorders of the patients there). The book detailing the bus journey was written by Tom Wolfe, and was based on what Kesey actually did.

Oh no! it's all comming back to me now. Got my authors mixed up, my bad.  :-D

Excellent summary of the history, thanks!

I just watched a documentary on Ram Dass, who was with Leary in the early days before he went to India to find a guru. He abandoned LSD as his method of higher realities when he learned that "it's not the method, it's what's already in you".

Leary worked for the CIA...  Well, maybe: http://www.markriebling.com/leary.html

All these illegal shrooms cant compare with a good night of Salvia Divinorum...lol
Its a sorry state of affairs when alcohol is legal and kills oooo many people and all the good stuff that rarely does any damage is illegal because it produces free thinkers. Noo the Gov cant have that. Meditation is bad enough...We need you to work, go home, watch the brain slayer, and go to bed and do it all over again. Just a few experiments with the right things can awaken, or at least make some fools that have no spiritual belief realize the truth. Im not saying become an addict to all that but at least let them be tried...The original Constitution of the united states aloud for the drug of choice to be used, but than it was realized to many free thinkers among that group. Shut ummm down. Such bs..Many of the best writers, musicians, philosophers and mystics used, but they new the line between abuse and occasional use. Besides anyone that dreams,ld,obe,remote views knows that those substances dont help they hinder.   

Quote from: Tala on July 16, 2006, 11:41:38
I'd like to state that the Astral Pulse does not recommend any kind of drug use. 

Nor do I. Everything you need is within.

God Is In The Magic Mushrooms
This just in: Psychedelic drugs could be very good for your mind, heart, soul. Can you believe?

By Mark Morford, SF Gate Columnist
Friday, August 4, 2006

Hide the children. Pour some absinthe, fluff the pillows, take off your pants. It is time.

Because now we know: Getting nicely and wholly high on illegal but completely natural hallucinogenic drugs might, just might open some sort of profound psychological doorway or serve as some sort of giddy terrifying rocket ride to a higher state of consciousness, happiness, a sense of inner peace and love and perspective and a big, fat lick from the divine.

It's true. There's even a swell new study from Johns Hopkins University that officially suggests what shamans and gurus and botany Ph.D.s and alt-spirituality types have known since the dawn of time and Jimi Hendrix's consciousness: that psilocybin, the all-natural chemical found in certain strains of wild mushrooms, induces a surprisingly large percentage of users to experience a profound -- and in some cases, largely permanent -- revolution in their spiritual attitudes and perspectives.

Not only that, but the stuff reportedly made a majority of testers feel so much more compassionate, open-hearted, connected to and awestruck by the world and the universe and God that it ranks right up there with the most profound and unfathomable experiences of their lives. I know. Stop the presses.

But let us sidestep the face-slapping obviousness. Let us look past the fact that you are meant to react to this study's findings like it's some sort of revelation, like it doesn't merely reinforce roughly 10 thousand years of evidence and modern research and opinioneering and responsible advocacy by everyone from Timothy Leary to Terence McKenna to Huston Smith to the Tibetan Book of the Dead with yet another study to add to the pile in the Science of the No Duh.

You know the type -- studies that merely reinforce ageless common sense, that simply reiterate something that's been said and understood for eons. There have been, for example, recent studies that prove that meditation actually reduces blood pressure (no!) and that MDMA (Ecstasy) is amazing at releasing inhibition and tapping the deeper psyche (shocking!) and that marijuana is roughly a thousand times less harmful than Marlboros and nine vodka tonics and smacking your family around in an alcoholic rage. You know, duh.

Because one thing painfully redundant studies like this do provide is a nicely clinical framework, a structured context from which to view a long-standing phenomenon. But here's the fascinating part: In the case of something like psilocybin, it's not so much the astounding findings that can make you swoon, it's also, well, the illuminating shortcomings of science itself.

Put another way, they are trying, once again, to measure enlightenment. They are attempting to put a frame around consciousness, cosmic awe, God. And of course, they cannot do it. Or rather, they can only go so far before they hit that point where the sidewalk ends and the world spins off its logical axis and the study's participants cannot help but deliver the death blow every scientist dreads to hear: "You cannot possibly understand."

Witness, won't you, these revelations:

The psilocybin joyriders claimed the experience included such feelings as "a sense of pure awareness and a merging with ultimate reality, a transcendence of time and space, a feeling of sacredness or awe, and deeply felt positive mood like joy, peace and love." What's more, for a majority of users, the experience was "impossible to put into words."

It doesn't stop there. Two months later, 24 of the participants (out of a total of 36) filled out a questionnaire. Two-thirds called their reaction to psilocybin "one of the five top most meaningful experiences of their lives. On another measure, one-third called it the most spiritually significant experience of their lives, with another 40 percent ranking it in the top five. About 80 percent said that because of the psilocybin experience, they still had a sense of well-being or life satisfaction that was raised either 'moderately' or 'very much.'"

You gotta read that again. And then again. Because those statements are just a little astonishing, unlike anything you will read in some FDA report on Prozac from Eli Lily. The most profound experience of their lives? One of the most spiritually significant? Can we get some of this stuff into willy Cheney's blood pudding? Into the Kool-Aid at the American Family Association? Into Israel and Lebanon?

But this is the amazing thing: Here, again, is hard science running smack into the hot cosmic goo of the mystical. Here, again, is science peering over the edge of understanding and jumping back and saying, "Holy crap." It is yet another reminder that our beautiful sciences have almost zero tools with which to quantify something like "transcendence of time and space" or "a feeling of sacredness and awe." And watching them try is either tremendously enjoyable or just depressing as hell. Or a little of both. It all depends, of course, on how you see it.

Here then, are your choices. Here are the three ways to look at the effects of magic mushrooms on the consciousness of humankind. Which angle you choose depends a great deal on how nimble you allow your mind, your heart, your spirit to be. Or maybe it's just how much wine you've had.

The first way is to simply presume that the lives of the study's participants had obviously been, up to their psilocybin joys, tremendously mediocre. So bland and so limp that something like hallucinogenic mushrooms could not help but be, in contrast, as profound as being licked by angels.

This is a clinical interpretation. The gorgeous experience itself means nothing except to say that normal life is terribly drab and crazy drugs temporarily scramble your brain in occasionally positive and interesting ways, but never the twain shall meet, so oh well let's go back to work.

But you can also take it one step further. You may conclude that the study underscores the harsh fact that we as a species are so divorced from deeper meaning, so detached from the mystical and the divine and the universal in our everyday instant-gratification lives, that it takes something like a powerful hallucinogen to show us just how meek and limited and far from merging with God we still very much are. This is the pessimistic view. And it is, by every estimate, a very primitive and sour place to be.

Ah, but then there's the third way. This is to suggest that it's exactly the other way around, that perhaps at least some of us are, as Leary and his cosmic cohorts have suggested for decades, just inches from the celestial doorway, already on the precipice of realizing that we are, in fact, the divine we so desperately seek. Problem is, we can't see the edge through the tremendous fog of consumerism and conservatism and quasi-religious muck.

But even so, every now and then we manage to take a tiny, unconscious, clumsy step ever closer to the edge, stumbling toward ecstasy without really knowing or understanding that we're doing so. And ultimately, sly entheogens like psilocybin are merely nature's way of clearing the fog for a moment, of letting us know just how close we are by smacking us upside the scientific head and tying our cosmic shoelaces together. And doesn't that sound like a fascinating way to spend the weekend?

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/gate/archive/2006/08/04/notes080406.DTL

 :-D   Yes why yes it does...And some Absinthe too. Lol havent had that since i was in the service   wooo good stuff.

The shaman uses these and calls them Ally...we use them and get arrested and tossed in jail...But than i can choose to drink until i cant remember my name and as long as i dont drive...im good to go.

Shrooms can be an enlightening experience, but if you want to see God, Morning Glory seeds are the best. At least that what some friends have told me.  8-)

I have tried shrooms once... it really does change your life, though i had a very bad trip, with faces in walls and eyeballs in glasses... i felt... illuminated. I started thinking straight, every thought gave an immense feeling, like: you know when you have such a good idea that it makes solves the problem you were dealing with, or just a perfect idea... Every thought u have feels like that, every idea you get (mostly very smart idea's) are just... incredible. However, the bad side is the hallucination, you can get very scared, the last thing you want to do is give it up and start to panic, if you panic... you'll probably enter hell for a few days.

why are you scared.....
or is it that you're just conforming to what society wants you to think/do/say/act
make your own decisions about these things, dont rely on the opinions of others, people use drugs all the time, doctors prescribe countless drugs to people--why are these the only ones that are deemed "acceptible," you have to wonder why only the strongly consciousness altering ones are illegal. :cry:

Thats not actually true salvia is legal. Alcohol is legal and very strong very altering. The thing is you dont need drugs to get to an altered state. They actually hinder any processes of dreaming and recall.

yeah but you cant buy it in the grocery store so it pretty much is

Online and direct to your house not good enough?

lol no visa :cry:

I have been away for awhile. Sorry.  Have been busy.

Psychodelic drugs are a way of fooling the mind by way of biochemistry into a 'spiritual' (phenomenalogic)
perception. 

It is a shadow of what is possible and only on one level.  It is a trick. 

It is a dead end.  You end up right were you were but with an altered and probably misrepresented concept of other forms of conciousness.

Eating a bowl of oatmeal can be more spiritually unfolding with the proper attitude and it is actually good for you.

The choice of drug makes a huge differance here. If its natural (from or of this earth) or man made.
Literally some drugs do through off you assemblage point and thus give you a taste of what can come. But i do agree it must be done "naturally" to have future affect. Drugs are only a window.
The shaman used them in the past to give humans an idea of what altered conciousness and dreaming is all about. But in the end there were many addicts as a product of. Drugs to the shaman were considered to be allies.

GRRRR!!

this annoys me,
open minded people whov been taking mushrooms since the 60's have been saying this same thing for years but are regarded as "whacked out crackpots",
now because someone wears a labcoat and fills out graphs and questionaires about there findings, all of a sudden mushrooms and psyclobin are a subject of interest...
big deal boffins, this is not new news.

its YOU who'v only just found out about how amazing this substance is, if channeled in the right way.
shamans have used them for thousands of years but all the time they've been 'primitive' people..

oh yeah mushrooms are an amazing experience ;)
and will definatly be a thing you'll never forget.. IMO having a sitter (someone sober to look after you) is NOT  good idea, because its harder to truly meditate and go inside the deepest parts of your own spirit and being if someone is there watching and asking you "hows it going"?? "can you feel it yet??" etc...
so IMO, do them alone, meditate with a buddha statue, and make the surroundings warm (orangey red colours)
dont fear weather your suddenly gonna jump out the window or whatnot, put it this way, would you do that kind of thing now?... if the answer is no then your pretty safe, mushrooms DO NOT make you lose your understanding of reason unless your already pretty inbalanced to begin with.

See my above post.   

Drugs are a misdirection of a good intention.

There are no shortcuts.  Plastic surgery does not make you younger it only make you APPEAR younger, for a while. 

But that is ok.  Just letting you know.   Decide for yourselves. 

I don't think I've ever replied to a drug thread before, but I'll go ahead an post this one time.

A lot of people swear by drugs (illegal, legal or both). And a lot of people swear you should stay away from them. A few hover in the 'in-between' stage of the two.

Personally, I have never used any type of drug and have never had any desire to do so. Actually I should take that back. I occasionally will have a glass of wine with dinner -- but this occurs maybe 5 times a year.

I am a firm believer that drugs distort the bodies natural ability to do these things. I believe that they are merely a short-cut and as such the results speak for themselves, that being poor imitations of what they attempt to duplicate.  I believe that everything revolves around consciousness and anything that distorts consciousness -- such as hallucinogens, cannot reveal any type of spiritual truth. At most, they may show the person that 'something' metaphysical is possible. But to me, if you know you are taking an hallucinogen, how can you be sure that what you experience is a reflection of what is possible and not simply some sub-conscious illusion? Of course, anyone succeeding at AP with a lot of 'baggage' (fear, doubts, beliefs, etc) will also have experiences that correspond to those thoughts and feelings. So in that respect I guess drugs do provide one possible view of the non-visible planes.

But to me, the goal is to experience these things with the smallest amount of preconceived ideas as possible. Only then will you be able to gain a glimpse of what truly exists. In other words, to see things without any bias from the experiencer. And the only way to reach that level, is to control the mind, both thoughts and feelings, not hand over control to a drug.

Again, these are only my thoughts and opinions based on my own experiences.

I could say everyone should do mushrooms. But I really don't know if that's true. The simple thing to say would be...if you haven't done it...you don't know.

I don't understand why people enjoy NOT being in control of their body and senses when under the influence of shrooms.  I guess I'm a control freak. :)

Quote from: TalaNay on November 15, 2006, 16:28:23
I don't understand why people enjoy NOT being in control of their body and senses when under the influence of shrooms.  I guess I'm a control freak. :)

have you ever done them?
your not in control of your senses when your white water rafting, bungee jumping or parachuting.

a mushroom trip is similar, you ride something extraordinary.
sacrificing a few hours of 'sensory control' is worth this kind of experience :P

theres a BIG BIG difference between the word "drug" and "entheogen", cocain/extasy/heroin are drugs, they destroy you. Mushrooms are something 'sacred' (without being to conry) and are a million miles away from the image of a collapsed junkie in the back of an alley.

Yes, I did them when I was about eighteen.  My friend dropped them off and said, here ya go, have at it you two.  He failed to mention they take almost an hour to kick in and you should only eat ONE. 

You can pretty it up all you want but it still messes with your senses and you have to struggle while on them to "maintain"  I just happen to have a very strong constitution and I barely maintained... My friend on the other hand freaked out when she saw a woman in the next car smoking a cigg.  She thought she was on fire!  :lol:  Ok.. that part was funny, laughed my arse off for twenty minutes because she was such a nerd.. :-D  I still say, keep it real.  It makes me uncomfortable for people to come on here and advocate..

There is no Shortcut for 'work'.  There is only what YOU must do to really SEE. 

There is no cheating.  Not really.  There is really the work YOU individually must do to accomplish what your goals are.  Each of you are different so each of you different work to do.

Drugs are a distraction and appease the personal ego.

In this case i say its up to the individual. Castaneda had some very good experiances with drugs (that took a lot of work) to produce correctly. I broke so much ground in lucid dreaming after his books. after reading the teachings of Don Juan i learned more than i ever wanted to know about drugs. And the book proved to me that they were getting a jump start from what they did not a false hallucination. These by the way were not ever man made drugs. Peyote,gymsum weed being the two main ones.
I have not for some time done anything but cigarettes and beer but i do remember and there is a good guide in the use of salvia and other drugs. I think most that speak of them negativly just follow the doctrines set down by the government to scare us.

SHROOMS ARE THE excrement!!!! lol <---- if you get that internet high five to you! lol they serious are amazing

*yawn*

We don't advocate drug use.  I suppose it takes a bad trip or seeing a friend die to make people see, they are not the way to go. 

Quote from: The Present Moment on July 12, 2006, 02:35:02

NEW YORK - People who took an illegal drug made from mushrooms reported profound mystical experiences that led to behavior changes lasting for weeks — all part of an experiment that recalls the psychedelic '60s.

The first and last time I took a common variety of mushrooms in a tea I had what most would consider mystical experiences. And quite a lengthy period of changed behavior that I can only describe as a normality I've never once in my life experienced...

But I am not supposed to be and to feel this normal, that is the main issue. I am supposed to be as my feelings naturally dictate. Chaotic...full of emotion. Likely insane.

It was as if the drug swallowed eccentricities that I believed as immutable as DNA...

You have to understand yourself, first, before anything in this world can help you.

I would not recommend mushrooms...and they're hard on the liver anyway.

DNA is immutable.....lol  :lol:

Quote from: Enoch on December 30, 2006, 12:12:04
DNA is immutable.....lol  :lol:

Are you telling us you can make alterations to yours?

Its no differant to awaken dna than it is to awaken parts of the brain that do not work. I wont argue this because no one is going to change there mind. But yes you can do both by knowing yourself. The only thing keeping us from doing most anything is a belief that we cannot. What we are told and what is are two differant things. Just as you cannot cast spells or leave your physical body....Well yes you can. 

Ah. I see what you mean now. Earlier though, I was basically searching my brain for an example to help me explain.

It is just one of the things I like to think is concrete. Whenever it is that  (scientifically) someone identifies that a human being can change the actual structure of their DNA, I'll be a believer...as well I should mention, highly impressed. :wink: With certain things I just need a bit of proof.

Do you think a dreamer completing there energy body is not subtly changeing there dna also? On the opposite negative side of the spectrum. And this is stricktly my opinion. Smoking leaves a dna trace and thus people that have smoked are more likely to have kids that smoke.

the spice extends life. the spice expands consciousness. the spice is vital to space travel.

yes i know- from dune. though, the first time I ate this entheogen was in the great sand dunes national monument.


plus..they're lyrics to a trance song named ambient galaxy by astral projection. you should check it out if you like an ocean full of sound waves in your head.

psychonaut, you are everywhere :P

If I am everywhere, I am nowhere. That is so as to say...I am now here.   :?

Quoteawaken dna

How do you awaken dna?  And how would it change?

http://www.dea.gov/pubs/scheduling.html (http://www.dea.gov/pubs/scheduling.html)

Unfortunately magic shrooms are way illegal in the US as they are almost everywhere other than the Netherlands.
The reason for the ban is unclear but irrationality is a prime uspect.

2cents&L&L
Jouni

They are not the way to go for YOU. That does not mean for someone else. So much false doctrine from learned nonsense thats just not true.

Quote from: jilola on January 19, 2007, 22:00:01
The reason for the ban is unclear but irrationality is a prime uspect.

Haha true enough

I always think it's interesting when at websites such as this where the sheep populace would come down on us for this stuff, members dictate what is right and wrong like those against what they do! I'm sure if there was a way to outlaw astral projection it would be done.

Quote from: Astir
...and they're hard on the liver anyway.

Really? I heard they can make your brain bleed too. I also heard they make you pregnant and give you gonorrhea if you're not careful!

Quote from: TalaNay
I suppose it takes a bad trip or seeing a friend die to make people see, they are not the way to go.

Are you talking about people physically dying? Only one person has ever died from eating magic mushrooms.

I also think it's interesting that some people find that psychedelics are an incredible tool for learning after a bad trip, as bad trips are an immense opportunity to learn, from what I hear.

QuoteI also think it's interesting that some people find that psychedelics are an incredible tool for learning after a bad trip, as bad trips are an immense opportunity to learn, from what I hear.

Bad trips can also cause psychological damage/imbalance. It's more than possible to have an experience that causes psychological trauma.

I Agree Stookie, which is why I don't think mushrooms are for *everyone*. Like most things, they can benefit or hinder, depending on the person. Do you have schizophrenia? DON'T DO MUSHROOMS! lol It just amazes me that when one thing that many people see as negative doesn't solve the worlds problems, it's bad...umm does caffeine cause enlightenment? Oh wait! no...Alcohol! Yeah that's where I learn of the words wonders and gain superior health! na...not so much. The majority of people on this planet have a very unbalanced view of psychedelics such as psilocybin containing mushrooms.

Many people I've talked to, after having bad trips figure out what happened during the trip to cause those feelings and they learn from them. The people that have bad trips, get scared, tell everyone they come in contact with that mushrooms will have you blowing the devil, is really missing out on an opportunity. As I'm sure many here believe, the hardships are where we are most likely to progress forward.

No one needs external 'help' to have "mind-blowing" experiences. So many people today simply do not want to put in the time it takes to actually have one. They are always looking for immediate effect. I do not believe this is the case with everyone everywhere. But I dop perceive it to be highly prevalent in the west (western Europe and US). I do not believe that there is any short-cut in spiritual matters.

QuoteThe majority of people on this planet have a very unbalanced view of psychedelics such as psilocybin containing mushrooms.

I think the majority of people on this planet have a very unbalanced view of pretty much everything in life. You mentioned alcohol. Do you know how many people over the years have actually explained to me that they drive better after a few drinks because their more cautious behind the wheel?!  :?  Sounds totally whacked doesn't it? 

As absurd as the statement above sounds to you right now...

QuoteMany people I've talked to, after having bad trips figure out what happened during the trip to cause those feelings and they learn from them.

...that is how I percieve this comment.

I realize that you cannot 'hear' my words, so I assure you now I am not trying to sound condescending or inflammatory in any way. I am merely tossing in to the ring the thought that perhaps trying to do something without the help of any type of drug may change your perspective on the matter. If you can compare both, you may be surprised at the difference. Oftentimes when we are in the middle of something, it is difficult to step back and see it for what it is.

Quote from: Novice on January 30, 2007, 08:44:30
No one needs external 'help' to have "mind-blowing" experiences. So many people today simply do not want to put in the time it takes to actually have one.

This nails it for me.  Thirty-plus years ago I was a "frequent flier" a la acid, peyote, or anything artificially mind-bending.  I had my share of mountain top and valley experiences.  Gained some insight into life -- mostly about what not to do!  Having been a recovering hippy for some time, I agree that nobody needs external help to have "mind-blowing" experiences.  What comes naturally is more awesome and more helpful in self-discovery.  It took me awhile to figure that out because i was too impatient.  I wanted life handed to me on a silver platter.  But most valuable things in life do take time, effort and (I hate the word) patience. Jeez, I'm starting to sound like me dad.  Welcome to the "old fart" club I guess!
:-D  DH

Quote from: DH on January 30, 2007, 10:13:56
This nails it for me.  Thirty-plus years ago I was a "frequent flier" a la acid, peyote, or anything artificially mind-bending.  I had my share of mountain top and valley experiences.  Gained some insight into life -- mostly about what not to do!  Having been a recovering hippy for some time, I agree that nobody needs external help to have "mind-blowing" experiences.  What comes naturally is more awesome and more helpful in self-discovery.  It took me awhile to figure that out because i was too impatient.  I wanted life handed to me on a silver platter.  But most valuable things in life do take time, effort and (I hate the word) patience. Jeez, I'm starting to sound like me dad.  Welcome to the "old fart" club I guess!
:-D  DH

Every experience we ever have defines us, and places us exactly where we are today. I agree that you don't need psychedelics to have mind blowing experiences (well the brain actively produces DMT - the most mind blowing psychedelic known to man), but such experience are part of what gives you this view now. Psychedelics have a very long relationship with the mind of man, and while I do think they are ultimately a dead-end, they can help many people reassess and put their feet on the right path for them.
Concerning psychological damage, the damage is done by the reaction to the drug and not by the drug itself. Such as flashbacks. Flashbacks can happen to anyone who has ever had a powerful experience; it's simply an innate action of the brain. I very much believe in education and sensible use on such matters as these. Psychedelics are not things to be taken lightly, or without the right set and setting.
For me, psychedelics would show a much bigger picture, before returning me back to earth. Years of meditation and trance work have gradually altered my perception of reality in a way psychedelics could only ever do fleetingly (and with less control).

I recently read a book which is indirectly about psychedelics.  It seemed to me that the insights the author  received from certain types of them were similar to the insights (and sometimes experiences) that I've had through meditation and AP practice.  (The book wasn't about them, pro or con, but more about his spiritual development and experiences).  At some point in the book, he spoke about how people in his generation needed these experiences to change the way they saw 'reality', and their place in it, and that someday, or in the coming 'shift', we wouldn't need these substances to achieve the heightened states of perception that they caused in him.  Whether this is valid or not, I don't know, but it seems to me that as MJ said, these are not to be taken lightly, and sometimes if the idea is to learn to naturally 'tune in' to this 'alternate reality', doing them anyway is somehow a step backwards in evolution.  Kind of like acquiring a crutch when you don't need one.  Just M.O.

Novice, I didn't take your post as being condescending, but thanks for putting that out there as we all know it's hard to tell what people mean when they type their words. I can kind of see your comparison but I don't think it is very fair. There are virtually no advantages to alcohol, esp driving under it's influence, though the possibilities in the psychedelic realm are vast. The possibilities thru meditation are endless.

Quote from: MisterJingo on January 30, 2007, 10:26:57
I very much believe in education and sensible use on such matters as these. Psychedelics are not things to be taken lightly, or without the right set and setting.

Agreed. It really sucks that there are so many people in the world that just want to get messed up. In the past all my psychedelic journeys have been very spiritual. My friends and I aren't of the "let's see how high we can get" crowd. In fact, I have always thought that "less is more" when it comes to most drugs. I have gained unbelievable insights into my life, the world, etc through small doses and a clear head. I have also gained unbelievable insights into all things through my day-to-day living, as that is just how I live my life. I have a strong pull to start yoga soon, which I will. I just wanted to point out that I have never used mind-altering drugs to be the ticket, though they can be valuable directions to the train station.

I do agree with a lot of what you guys have said. There are many parallels between wisdom/info gained from psychedelic experiences and methods such as yoga and meditation. I do agree that yoga and meditation give more long term effects, though I think psychedelic experiences can open people up to certain ways of looking at things, which can then be pursued with a clearer head. Actually I was just chattin with my friends the other day about this and I brought up the fact that I believe ultimately we will be making the journey unaided (by drugs). If this is true, which I think many people agree with, it really confuses me when people come down on psychedelic explorers. I believe a lot of psychedelic drug users are looking to better their life, the world, or what have you, which is what yoga practitioners desire as well as those who meditate. With similar goals, how can one group criticize another?

some interesting views.. in my past i enjoyed my share of the hallucinogens.. and then one day something hit me so hard I've never recovered.. i saw something or heard something that changed my life.. i think it was for the good.. I've always been open minded but this was a bit different.  i began searching for an answer and in that search i found AP and here and to many places i wouldn't have thought. 

but like i said i haven't recovered.. I'm still searching.. i don't know if AP is the answer or if it is another filter?  In the text books pot is considered a hallucinogen so this is my flaw.. it is really the only drug i use on a regular basis.. yes illegal.. why i don't know?  for me it mimics what people on the boards describe as AP or the feelings/vision/sounds people experience before they leave the physical.. i feel amazing vibrations all over my body.. it seems i can communicate with my mind.. very much like when I lay down sober and concentrate in attempting to AP.. I've felt the same things sober and under the influence of old mary.. why? 

many years ago when i was scared senseless of what was happening to me i quit.. dropped everything.. i didn't touch drugs for close to 5 years.. but i was still experiencing many of the same things awake as well as in dreams.. i couldn't figure it out.. i was convinced i quit smoking out of fear of what i was experiencing.. so i told my self i wasn't going to be scared anymore.. so facing my fear this past year has brought me many questions a few answers but mostly just more questions. 

In the past yes i did it for fun.. young kid. .i didn't know any better.  I'm a bit wiser now and I honestly feel this exploration is benefiting me.  It has brought me be back here again after not posting for ever.  scanning over some posts i ran into a post about Phasing by a dude named Frank who i would love to chat with.. anyways in his post on Phasing he goes into some detail how the astral plane isn't really a plane.. everything is connected.. my horrible explanation of it. I'm sure many of you have read it so I'm just going to state that I feel many of these things when i smoke and i don't think its just the drugs talking.. i think there is a connection..

anyone catch that?

Quote from: SilverSlider on January 28, 2007, 17:42:07

Really? I heard they can make your brain bleed too. I also heard they make you pregnant and give you gonorrhea if you're not careful!

Yes. Really.

Psilocybin is a poison, and poisons pass through and are filtered by your liver.  Don't make me sing the Reading Rainbow song. ~Take a look! It's in a book!...~ You need to read more about drugs if you wish to defend the safety of their use. But go ahead, mock my warning and label it propaganda.

If someone with compromised liver function came in here thinking it might be a good idea to try them, then what I said could only help in their case. To those who worry anyway, I would reccommend taking milk thistle for a few days after taking mushrooms.

I would reccommend taking milk thistle if you regularly take tylenol  :-P

QuoteActually I was just chattin with my friends the other day about this and I brought up the fact that I believe ultimately we will be making the journey unaided (by drugs). If this is true, which I think many people agree with, it really confuses me when people come down on psychedelic explorers. I believe a lot of psychedelic drug users are looking to better their life, the world, or what have you, which is what yoga practitioners desire as well as those who meditate. With similar goals, how can one group criticize another?

It wasn't a criticism of drug users. I was simply stating my views on the subject. I've never done any type of drug at all. But I've known kids in high school and college who did. And everyone of them did it to have fun at first. Whenever there was a party, they had to take some -- "you know, just to have fun; loosen up a bit". Eventually I think it turned to a form of escapism -- and this goes for alcohol as well. Some enjoy a glass of wine with dinner. But others need a drink when they get home from work; or after finals in school; or to deal with a broken relationship; or whatever other hard to deal with physical problem they face. Drugs aren't spiritual to them -- its a fast means to a surreal world where they don't have to deal with what is facing them in physical life.

I also don't like what drugs do to the body of the user. I don't like anything that harms the body, regardless of the 'benefits' one can gain from it. But I also don't take 'legal' drugs either (motrin, tylenol, cold medicine, etc). As with all things in life there is a choice. Yes ibuprofin stops pain, but it is also hard on the liver. So what do you do? Live with the pain for awhile or let your liver take a 'hit or two' from the medicine? There is no right or wrong answer, which is why I am not criticizing your choice. I'm merely throwing out an alternative and hoping that you or others reading this post will get a balanced view of the subject and not just a one-sided answer.

The use of drugs to elicit other-worldly experiences goes back thousands of years. I think the most commonly known is peyote (I'm probably spelling that wrong). And often people will point to this as a practice and justify the use of drugs by saying its been done for a long time. Yes it has, but so has yoga and meditation without drugs. And, from what I remember (and I'm NOT an authority on this at all) these ancient civilizations used drugs only in ceremonial practicies or for specific issues. It was not a habitual use. They also had many rituals that needed to be followed prior to the use and even then, the drugs were not used by everyone. Only a select few were allowed to use them after a type of apprenticeship and then it was for the betterment of the people.

Even in meditation, people tend to get side-tracked at looking for the 'cool' experience. They focus not on the meditation, but on what they may experience during it. In my opinion, this defeats the purpose of meditation. One needs to get passed 'expecting' and simply 'be'. The goal is less important that the road taken to get there. Whereas with drugs, the 'cool' experiences are guaranteed each time.

I guess it all boils down to two things for me:

1) based on the people I know, drugs are used to escape problems instead of facing them; and
2) people want instant, immediate experiences

My experience has been that the difficulties we face in life and the way in which we deal with them is what makes us strong and helps us to grow. I don't think either one of those two things can be rushed.

Again, I'm not trying to criticize. Just throwing out my thoughts on the subject so that others reading will have differing views to consider.

Ah damn the internet! haha well, I didn't mean the critisizing comment to be taken in a negative way. I agree that way too many people use drugs to escape though. I also limit my use of legal drugs...for health reasons and I think it's interesting watching my body cure itself...I like to see my humanity come through, it's refreshing.

dRealM: What did you see or hear? I'm curious. I interpreted it as just a sudden objective change in your feelings, which I could see happening to myself someday.

As I said before, I am not going to be surprised if I abandon all "artificial" means of stimulating my mind. I guess I won't be surprised if I don't either. I go with what benefits my life and in my life what benefits my life benefits others because I like helping people...

Astir...I will say you may be right, as anyone can be right about anything, but let's look at the definition of a poison:

From Dictionary.com

1.   a substance with an inherent property that tends to destroy life or impair health.
2.   something harmful or pernicious, as to happiness or well-being: the poison of slander.

These first two could be applied to those who argue the "bad trip" angle, as pschedelics such as LSD can impair health (mental) and could be harmful to one's well-being, but this is referring to a more psychological approach as implied by slander.

5.   to kill or injure with or as if with poison.
8.   Chemistry. to destroy or diminish the activity of (a catalyst or enzyme).

Now these two are probably more applicable to how people descibe psilocybin as a poison. I believe the second one actually illustrates this the best and I can second it from my biochem class. Poisons inhibit certain processes in the body, processes that are essential to life. In excess amounts, anything is a poison right? So we're essentially arguing HOW poisonous psylocibin is.

From Erowid:

"Psilocybin, psilocin and psilocybian mushrooms have very low toxicity - in tests with mice, doses up to 200 mg of pure psilocybin/kg of body weight have been injected intravenously without lethal effects (that would be 13 grams of pure psilocybin per average human (65 kg / 140 lbs). The ED50:LD50 ratio is 641 according to the NIOSH Registry of Toxic Effects; compare this with 9637 for vitamin A, 4816 for LSD, 199 for aspirin and 21 for nicotine. According to Leo Hollister, Jonathon Ott, and John W. Allen, one would have to consume their body weight in fresh mushrooms or eat approximately 19 grams of the pure chemical substance to bring on death. "

And more from Erowid:

The following hallucinogenic species contain not psilocin/psilocybin but ibotenic acid, muscimol and related compounds:

    * Amanita citrine (syn A. mappa, A. citrina), A. muscaria var formosa, muscaria (*), pantherina, porphyria, A. muscaria var regalis, tomentella

(*) The famed "Fly Agaric" red toadstool with white warts.

"Amanita species cause 95% of all deaths from mushroom poisoning. The ones above are (reasonably) safe. The danger lies in incorrect identification.** Death by Amanita poisoning is reportedly an excruciating way to die, since they destroy liver tissue and the body's own wastes then kill you. Worse yet, noticeable negative effects do not begin until 3 days after ingestion, and by then it's too late. (Note - Silymarin found in Milk Thistle seeds is one of the only substances known to protect against a majority of the liver damage caused by poisonous Amanita species, but it needs to be taken immediately after ingestion, long before any negative effects are noticed.) I would seriously recommend against toying with these; most reports say they're not even fun. If you insist, consult other sources for more information."

** Here they are talking about picking wild mushrooms, which can be dangerous and shouldn't be undertaken without proper knowledge. "magic mushrooms" bought 'off the street' are typically grown and known with 100% certainty to be psilocybe mushrooms. There is no way to mistake amanitas for psilocybes.

I don't really feel like interpreting this data as it pretty much speaks for itself. I really dislike misinformation. I know soooo many people who go around saying the most bizarre stuff about mushrooms. I have done a TON of reading, don't worry.

Silver

honestly i don't know how to explain what i saw.. i can describe the situation kind of..

i was surrounded by many people.. walking and talking with my friend right next to me, then instantly he and everyone around me started moving around like robots.. i was hearing weird noises and it seemed that the robots were moving to the beat of the noises.. i was confused.. then instantly everything snapped back to where i was.. right next to my friend.. him asking me what the hell just happend.. he told me i just went blank for a second stopped walking and froze.. for a second?? it felt like at least 2 minutes of confusion.. then i snapped out of it.  This is just the beginning of the night.  it later turned into a game of some kind.. go into the circle alone and leave with someone come back separate and repeat.. repeat.. repeat?? thats the best i can do.. not really much of an explanation. 

I'm making an animated short about some of my experiences.. it will be done in a few months.. i will post my website when everything is finished.  I just feel that i can visually explain myself better than with words.

but anyways i seem to experience these feelings and sounds.. i can hear people talking?? when i lay down and attempt to AP.  to me the similarities are undeniable.

Most illegal drugs are less harmful than alcohol and cigarettes. It is a persons choice weather or not they want to do drugs not the government not any one elses. The reason they stay illegal is because one the government makes a killing off of people beinfg in jail and two they have a tendancy to make people see outside the box and again the governemnt cannot have anyone around thats not a good little sheep. 

i've eaten amanita muscaria. i ate 4/5 large dried caps...didn't do much of anything at all. maybe fresh would do something but i wouldnt even bother.

This is always a sticky subject. It will always be different for each individual, of course.

I have never done shrooms, but about a year ago I was in mexico staying with a friend of mine, and his grandfather was telling us about Salvia. He was telling us about how when children would turn a certain age, they would be given Salvia as a sort of initiation into adulthood. It was really an interesting story. He was a little hard to understand because his english wasn't that great, but he seemed to know a lot about it. The next day, he had some for us. He cautioned us about it first, and told us that if we wanted to try it, we could. He told us that we had to go into it with an open mind. It was, without a doubt, the most life changing experience. I know that some of you don't approve of this, and say that if anything, it hinders spiritual growth, but here I will disagree. If you believe that it willl hinder spiritual growth, then for you, it most likely will, but as in all situations in life, it's about how you approach the situation.

Suppose you were a child again, and your father askes you to add two numbers? Well, it turns out that you (being in your youth) have never heard of addition. Now, even though you have no idea what addition is, it is still of course very possible and very likely that you will figure out how to add all on your own, but how long will that take? And how will you know if it is infact addition that you are computing? So I guess you could say that my experience with Salvia was the equivilent of Dad showing me how to add.

Now, it is not something that I do on a daily, infact, that was the only time that I have and ever will do anything of that sort again. The reason being simply because I do not need it to experience that feeling anymore. I can always feel it now. It was a teacher to me, and I am forever grateful to my friends grandfather for what he gave me. It really has changed my life. Again, this is all just my own personal oppion.