Permanent Duality?

[Pauli2]

Sometimes I encounter the expression, that "duality is an illusion".
But is that true? Does duality go away if we ascend to higher
astral "planes"?

What if duality is created in the physical and then is brought to
the astral and maintain there?

Buhlman says that one of the reasons we are in the physical is
to develop our individuation.

Frank DeMarco says our physical existence is for us to mold our
personalities as it takes forever in the astral (and is perhaps also
impossible to finish there).

So, if we are here to become individuals, could it be possible for
duality to exist in the astral?

Duality as a fact?

Oneness becomes an illusion?

[Xanth]

Adrian actually just made a couple wonderful posts in the 2012 sub-forum.  I encourage you to give them a quick read. 
He speaks almost exclusively about this very topic.

http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/welcome_to_2012_and_the_transition_of_the_ages/truth_about_2012-t34335.0.html;msg284864#msg284864

He defines duality as "the illusion or delusion of everything being separate".

Of which, I totally agree with him and his conclusions.

Duality is entirely created in the physical... and yes, it entirely "goes away" as you progress through the non-physical.  Duality is not a state of natural being for us.  When we die, it makes sense that we slowly shift our perception away from it and towards our more natural state of being.

I don't believe that our goal here is to "become individuals" though.  I believe our goal is to simply grow our consciousness and learn to, not act with love, but genuinely BE love.  It's the difference between doing the right thing because you believe it's the right thing... and doing the right thing because that's just what you do. 

[Stookie_]

Duality is experienced in the astral, but the astral is not the end goal, it's still a part of the physical and why the physical works in the way it does.

In the experience of oneness, it becomes obvious that duality is the illusion and oneness the only absolute, but you can't say that when it's turned around - the experience of duality is what keeps us blind of the truth behind our perception of things.

So, if we are here to become individuals, could it be possible for
duality to exist in the astral?

I'm not so sure we're here just to become individuals as though that defines our being, but the experiences had while being individuals through duality. They aren't really just our own experiences, but done for the whole. Experience duality, then bring the experience (not the duality) into the divine (oneness).

[CFTraveler]

Duality is one way of experiencing the pizza of reality.
Imagine reality is a huge pizza, full of goodies, and stuff you don't like.  You got  pepperoni, olives, and anchovies. (or fill in your favorites and not favorites).
Now, you can pile all the stuff you don't like on one half of the pizza and all the stuff you like on the other side, and stand in the middle- and now you've got an equally divided circle, and your point of view is clear- reality is dual, step to the right, and it's 'all' good, step to the left, it's 'all' bad.
However, if you have this pizza, with all the toppings randomly strewn around, the concept is no longer about duality- because it depends on where you're standing.  If you jump from delicious topping to delicious topping 'It's All Good', and duality is an illusion- if you jump from anchovy to anchovy (IMO) then it's all crap and reality sucks.  No duality, just all suck.
So, it all depends on how you approach the pizza, and if you're aware of how the toppings are distributed.

[Xanth]

You knew full well that I'd read that and get hungry... damn, now I want pizza.  Hold the anchovies though.

[CFTraveler]

 

[Rudolph]

So, if we are here to become individuals, could it be possible for
duality to exist in the astral?
Duality as a fact?
Oneness becomes an illusion?

Really good questions.

I have been investigating this for a while and here is how I sum it up so far;

Duality exists in the physical, in the Astral and the Mental/Causal as well. Before the beginning there is unity. The first thought proceeded from the initial conception of duality. All thought, emotion and physical action is within the realm of duality.

Individuality is the vehicle for extracting eternal value from the realm of duality. Those who deny their individuality while in this realm of duality are simply "in denial" and are wasting the present incarnation.

Oneness is a Realization when one resides beyond duality. Many speak about this "unity" and "Oneness" but it is obvious that most of them have no idea what they are talking about. Those who truly KNOW and understand Oneness acknowledge and validate the Individual and its place in the Eternal scheme.

[Xanth]

Duality exists in the physical, in the Astral and the Mental/Causal as well. Before the beginning there is unity. The first thought proceeded from the initial conception of duality. All thought, emotion and physical action is within the realm of duality.

I can definitely get behind and agree with that statement.

The question is... is it a natural state of being in the non-physical, or because our current perception is biased by our physical reality experience?

When one's physical body ceases to operate and we move permanently into other reality frames, does the duality, which could be an effect of this physical existence, cease as well?
That's more a rhetorical question... I guess we'll never really know. 

[Rudolph]

The question is... is it a natural state of being in the non-physical....

Not really. The question was about duality. Whether you are non-physical or not is about as meaningful as whether a man is topless at the beach, or not.

From what I can see, almost none of the folks contributing on these AP sites are learning much of anything about the Astral and little or nothing about the mental/causal and even less about the Atmic states or higher...

There are a couple here with half a clue but they won't challenge the outright bullpucky and strongarm ego manifestation here the way I will. The question is ... does the populace want to learn the truth or does it want to see another witch burning?

[dotster]

If one considers consciousness to be non-local the paradox of duality disappears entirely.  Interesting food for thought 

[Xanth]

Not really. The question was about duality. Whether you are non-physical or not is about as meaningful as whether a man is topless at the beach, or not.

I, personally, believe it's very meaningful, because you can only perceive your non-physical experiences through the filter of what it means to be "physical".

[Rudolph]

The question was about 'duality'. That extends well beyond mere physical manifestation.

EDIT:
nice try Xanth... at least you are very consistent in your method of obfuscation. My original point was a challenge to your claim that, "The question is... is it a natural state of being in the non-physical...." which is of course 'wrong'. That is NOT what the question is.

[Summerlander]

Rudolph, your tirades at Xanth are becoming tiresome. Whatever Xanth says your brain is focused on this: "how can I prove him wrong...what can I twist from what he's posted". And then, ultimately, your mind craves this: "how can I show myself to be right even when I wrong and make myself look good".

-Rudolph's permanent duality  

[CFTraveler]

Regardless of personal give and take, it seems to me that the idea of duality comes from the idea that 'something exists' and 'something doesn't', which is a result of manifestation, whether physical or not (if you can perceive it, it's manifested somewhere, in the sense that even the idea exists 'somewhere', even if nonlocal, and as such, duality is a quality of any manifestation, whether physical or nonphysical.
For example, my pizza analogy manifested in Xanth's imagination (and possibly salivary glands) at some point, demonstrating nonphysical duality.  I don't know if he ordered one later, and manifested it physically.
I'm just saying.

[Rudolph]

Rudolph, your tirades at Xanth are becoming tiresome. Whatever Xanth says your brain is focused on this: "how can I prove him wrong...what can I twist from what he's posted". And then, ultimately, your mind craves this: "how can I show myself to be right even when I wrong and make myself look good".

Summer, nothing in my post constitutes a "tirade". I was merely replying to his comment about my post. Get a grip.

And besides, not only have we already established that you are a liar but your brown nosing posture is more than tiresome.

I have a proposal for you. You steer clear of me and I will return the favor your direction.

[NoY]

lol

[Xanth]

The question was about 'duality'. That extends well beyond mere physical manifestation.

EDIT:
nice try Xanth... at least you are very consistent in your method of obfuscation. My original point was a challenge to your claim that, "The question is... is it a natural state of being in the non-physical...." which is of course 'wrong'. That is NOT what the question is.

That wasn't a claim, Rudy, it was merely a question. 
I was attempting to open the discussion a little wider (apparently quite poorly LoL) to include the physical nature of our current existence, which, I feel, is very influential upon our non-physical experiences.

"Wrong" would be your personal answer for it... and I say thank you for sharing it. 

And let's try to put the past behind us for now please.

Summer, nothing in my post constitutes a "tirade". I was merely replying to his comment about my post. Get a grip.

I actually agree with that. 

Regardless of personal give and take, it seems to me that the idea of duality comes from the idea that 'something exists' and 'something doesn't', which is a result of manifestation, whether physical or not (if you can perceive it, it's manifested somewhere, in the sense that even the idea exists 'somewhere', even if nonlocal, and as such, duality is a quality of any manifestation, whether physical or nonphysical.
For example, my pizza analogy manifested in Xanth's imagination (and possibly salivary glands) at some point, demonstrating nonphysical duality.  I don't know if he ordered one later, and manifested it physically.
I'm just saying.

Oh, I came very close to ordering one. 
Still might!  *drools* 

[Summerlander]

Summer, nothing in my post constitutes a "tirade". I was merely replying to his comment about my post. Get a grip.

And besides, not only have we already established that you are a liar but your brown nosing posture is more than tiresome.

I have a proposal for you. You steer clear of me and I will return the favor your direction.

Liar? when did I lie? what was the lie? I'm not the one who is secretive about PMs and if I had posted exactly what you sent me about Xanth and PersonalReality, I'm pretty sure you wouldn't have been allowed back here!

[Rudolph]

Here's a couple examples that I already spelled out for you:

Here is one example;

You said this while I was temporarily banned here;
"By the way, I've been in touch with Rudy...
He's only got three words for all of you and it's not "I love you""

No such conversation *ever* took place. I never made any comment that would fit that scenario. The liar completely made it up out of whole cloth.

I recently asked you privately if you had been in communication with Xanth (over our communal disagreement - nothing to do with "the Arlindo-Ryan conspiracy theory") because it would be consistent with your modus operandi.

{could you possibly stoop any lower?}

[Summerlander]

LOL

Sure, Rudy, sure...

The conversation never took place. If you say so...

[Rudolph]

LOL
Sure, Rudy, sure...

The conversation never took place. If you say so...

It absolutely never happened. And I was temp-banned at the time so I sent you a note asking you to post a retraction to the forum taking it back. But you didn't. And now you double the lie by standing by the falsehood.

And I thought you could sink no lower....

[Summerlander]

Rudy...there is no shame in admitting your mistakes or admitting that you were really mad at Xanth and personalreality. Remember the name-calling and the swearing coming from you and how much you compared them to the Astral viewers folk?

If I lied about what you said I lied about, why in the hell would I do that when at the time I thought you deserved a chance? Anyway, it doesn't matter now. If you want to talk about this further, do PM me. I'm not out here to put you down. I just like to let people know exactly how they come across. I'm holding up the mirror so you can see yourself.

That said, I'm not perfect, of course...but we are talking about you here...

[Pauli2]

I think this thread has developed into a direction where we on
good grounds can state that there exists a Permanent Duality.

[Rudolph]

If I lied about what you said I lied about, why in the hell would I do that when at the time I thought you deserved a chance? Anyway, it doesn't matter now. If you want to talk about this further, do PM me.

I have no idea why you did what you did. But you did. And I asked you to correct the record, but you did not, you played dumb. Even after pointing out exactly for you the quote you attributed to me (but that you really just made up out of thin air) ... you did nothing.

And then here again you falsely accuse me, once more. Profanity? (This would be out of character for me but I was a bit miffed at the time... so I went and checked). Nope... I could find no profanity -- unless "dadburn Canucks" falls in that category. I did say that. More dishonesty on your part, Summer.

You know,  I pm'ed the other parties you mentioned and received helpful advice from several of the others involved on how I might better handle the situation and there was even advocacy and intercession on my behalf. We came to a mutual understanding.

When I saw your relationship I wondered if you might also have some helpful part to play here and so I asked if you were in communication with a key player on the matter. But what I mistook as a healthy relationship apparently turns out to be just low-down brown nosing. my bad. Now I know better.

[dotster]

I think this thread has developed into a direction where we on
good grounds can state that there exists a Permanent Duality.

Permanent I don't know, but definitely sticky.