Please read.I need your opinion

[Oliver]

Hi,

I wouldnt join the military myself, because i think it promotes violence.
Also, i just couldnt do it, i couldnt handle guns, i wouldnt want to touch them, it would just make me sad that they were built to shoot people.
On the other hand it also promotes peace, and the army does a lot of peace keeping, but to me, its not really peace, its peace through the means of fear, or force. Just because there isnt violence doensnt mean there is peace.
The army does help out in floods and natural disasters also tho. But so do firefighters, emergancy services, civil defence.

Its like, if u cover up a hole in the wall with a poster, sure, you cant see a hole in the wall, so its like everythings alright, but the moment u take that poster away, the hole will be back, to get the hole to go away, you have to plaster it, and do a whole lotta other stuff to mend it.

Violence is there because of hate or anger, you have to get rid of those things, before you can get rid of the violence.

Anyway, as for advice to you, Do what feels right to you, if you feel good working in the military, stay there, but it sounds you are having doubts. I think if anything is done with the highest intentions of good, then theres not much to worry about, becaue you will change or alter things in your life as you grow to keep fulfilling these good intentions. Remember if want to do something good for your country there are a lot of other good organisations that help people or the enviroment that you could join.

Oliver

[bitsmart]

I similarly could not bring myself to join the military, not only for my firm belief in non-violence, but also due to the fact that basic training is meant to break you down and reprogram you, and this I believe is inhumane. However, I have great respect for the people that protect us, and I don't feel that joining the military necessarily incurs karmic debt or contradicts any pacifism/nonviolence you may believe in.

You said you originally joined because it seemed to be the best thing for your future. If this no longer applies, then it may be time to re-evaluate your motivations. But I see no dishonor in staying in or deciding to leave, either way. The most important thing I think for you to do is to do some serious inner questioning and listening to your heart. Anything outside of you cannot help you in making the right decision, real truth comes from the self. Best of luck!

bitsmart -
information illumination -
bitsmart@bitsmart.org -

[Tom]

My medical history (not that I will go into details) kept me from enlisting in the Navy. I completed part of the Army ROTC program, though, a six week course at Fort Knox, Kentucky. It was not possible to continue with the program. My exposure to the military has given me a background from which to offer an opinion. If it weren't for my medical history, I would gladly be in the military. It is true that a military centers around violence, but it is not true that you have to be violent to be in the military. They do not want crazy people. It is necessary to be able and ready to fight, and the military protects civilians from being exposed to this. Even if no one thanks you for it, there is a lot of patience and generosity involved in being in the military. It is what makes it possible for pacifists to exist in this world. You can think of the training as being like brainwashing, and you are correct. You also have several advantages. Military training is not 1:1. It is a group thing. By being aware of how you interact with other people, you can choose how and to what extent you accept what they teach. Another advantage is that through meditation, energy work, and studying spiritual writings you can still train yourself to increase positive qualities and this makes you resistant to negative qualities. The military has good things to teach, beyong how to operate a rifle. They teach discipline and working toward a goal. They tell you how to work with other people, too, and this is becoming more important than ever before.

[James S]

It is often easier for people to see only the negative in things, and the armed forces is no exception. Peace demonstrators have always accused the military of being violent gun-toting war mongers, but the armed forces of free countries have always been there to protect the rights of those demonstrators to say what they want.

Were it not for the military defending the peace of the world, we would see genocidal maniacs like Hitler running things.

The true knights of old were men who truly believed in using their might and skills to defend the weak and oppressed, and they still maintained their deeply spiritual beliefs and ways. I'm talking before religious leaders took control of the knights to force their personal beliefs on others.

Yes the military is a tool, but as to wether it is used to perpetuate violence or defend against it depends on who is wielding that tool. If you believe you are doing the right thing by joining the military, and this is where you path has taken you, you are being true to your karma, not wrecking it. We all have different roles to play on this world.

James.

[kakkarot]

i joined the army once. half way through basic training, it hit me that i was embarking on a path that would lead me to kill people who may not deserve it, to kill people whom i couldn't possibly know whether they deserved to die or not.

i like the idea of being in control, not relinquishing the safety of myself and my friends, and using violence IF I HAVE TO in order to protect that safety. but i just can't possibly live a life where i would be ordered to kill (or even injure) people who were not threatening me or my friends directly.

so i quit. i now live my own life, in complete control of my own actions and my own life. if i don't want to injure someone i won't. i don't have to get involved in things that aren't my business. i can use non-violent methods to prevent violence. and i feel a lot better about it.

~kakkarot

[Paukki]

Hi Maheenso,
Someone once said that truth is like this huge thing behind you, but "forget about the truth", (i.e., don't get fixated on trying to define something that is beyond rational definition, beyond what our minds can accomplish at the so called "normal", or "beta" level of our existence)-- what you've got to deal with is what is right in front of you.  Ever read Eckhart Tolle's "The Power of Now"?  If not, you might find it very helpful.  I stumbled upon something of the same concept, (of focusing on "the Now"), when I was in the Army in the mid 1970's, and I was in a blissful state for months.  If I had stuck with that concept and not allowed myself to internalize outter conflicts forming around me, I'm sure I wouldn't have ended up experiencing the hellish experience that I did.  

You've got yourself signed up for what?  2 years?  3 years?  More?  So what's right in front of you?  Boots need shining?  Friend wants to go out for a beer and a chat?  It might sound overly simplistic, but I believe that's what you need to get done.    

In bootcamp, I once stopped a nasty argument that clearly was going to lead to a racist brawl. I did this by uncharacteristcally going into a fairly long discussion that started with the Jews and ended with Martin Luther King, Jr.  Not long after that, our drill sargeant had us in formation and asked if any of us were "...religious?  Really religious?"  Because he could offer such a person the chance to get out right then and there, but after bootcamp, no way--you were committed!  That 24 year veteran of Korea and Vietnam said the Army was no place for "really religous" people.  And I had a strong feeling he was talking to me.  But if I hadn't been there, what would have happened with that potential brawl?  Is that a "karma" thing?  I'm not so sure about karma. I am sure that what needs to be done RIGHT NOW is usually fairly simple to figure out.  But as Tolle explains it, we get stuck in past and future, in "psychological time", and thus keep going 'round and 'round in unconscious patterns that will have us anywhere but in the NOW.

Jesus once said that the one who is faithful in a little thing will be faithful in much, will be set in charge of a lot more.  That's all you've got to do, right NOW.    Don't worry about tomorrow.  Tomorrow will take care of itself.  Get through today.  Sometimes in the military that becomes enough of a challenge, yes?  There is no point in tormenting yourself about the dualistic nature of hawk/dove, peace/war, army/pacifist.  Jesus saw great faith in a Roman legionaire, but I don't remember Jesus telling him to desert the army and run to Lapland.  If you tire of Jesus quotes, (as did a lot of people in my Army days, hehe!), here's as couple from "The Lazy Man's Guide to Enlightenment":  

1)  Go beyond reason to love:  it is safe.  It is the only safety.  
2)  When you learn to love hell, you will be in heaven.

Happy Nows!
--Paukki

From the movie, "Platoon":  "Somebody once wrote, 'Hell is the impossibility of reason.'"  Please don't think too much.  Please be young and alive!

[DjM]

Hi,

I am a former Marine; belong to societies (e.g. Rosicrucians); hope for peace and the evolution of mankind; AND I love you all!

In the Corps, I had been able to develop (and cultivate) a level of discipline and self-discipline that has been invaluable for esoteric training and spiritual develpment.  Ergo, if you give what you have and apply yourself in everything that you do (i.e. the service or whatever else you choose), you will improve every area of your life and karma.

Remember: the hard situations are the ones in which your light shines the brightest!  Look at your situation(s) as an opportunity to shine!

[Maheensoo]

Hi,
I've never posted here before but I love to read you guys' posts. I need you to give me some insight because I dont know what to think.Six months ago I enlisted in the military.Its something I'm not particularly proud of but not completely  ashamed of either.At the time I did it because it seemed like the best thing do for my future.Anyway,I'm in it now.I'm just wondering if you guys think I'm like wrecking my karma or something.It's hard to expand my consciousness and bring more love into my life when sometimes I just feel like a tool for perpetuating violence.Then on the other hand, some of these pacifism embracing philisophies don't seem completely  practical to me.I mean,I'm working to protect my people.How can that be dishonorable?What do you think?