The Astral Pulse

Ok, Reincarnation. Supposedly, I chose to be here. Right? Well since I'm so disconnected with my true self, and no matter what method I try I can't connect, I find it hard to believe that there are 2 of me;
1. My physical Self
2. My spiritual Self

Now my physical self does not want to reincarnate again. I've had it with this planet, I don't want to come back. Sad to say that? Yes, but I'm serious.

Now if my "TRUE- SELF" wanted to come here to experience and I can't remember because I'm disconnected and probably never will be reconnected, then how the hell and I to believe that there is such thing as free will.

Do you know how sickening it is to me to learn of everyone elses enlightenment's and astral travel and to want to experience it myself, but nothing works. I feel no energy, I can't relax.

Also, what is the sense of loving someone if you are separated at death and carnate into another body?

I find the free will concept very hard to believe. I want what I want, but my true self wants different?

This is what really really really aggravates me to no end and I want to explode. Now granted, I've only been meditating for a month, if that, but how long does it take before I have the ******* answers to the questions that have been gnawing at my stomach since my inception on this planet. Yeah I'm mad, very angrily ticked off type of mad dammit :lol:

Kevin

I sympathize with you and have many of the same questions. The logic is very twisted and unsettling. But the people who espouse the spirituality you're referring to generally base their words on experience. With that in mind, I think of it as though they are speaking a different language and that their ideas have to be "translated." From what I've learned from dreams, we each kind of have our own "spiritual language," although that word is somewhat of a misnomer, because right now we are using corporeal language to reference it.

Although, there is one part of your post for which I can give a definite answer.

QuoteDo you know how sickening it is to me to learn of everyone elses enlightenment's and astral travel and to want to experience it myself, but nothing works. I feel no energy, I can't relax.

Keep a dream journal. A very diligent one. Get up out of bed every single time you have a dream or any "otherworldly" experience. Since you "can't relax," you should have less trouble doing this than someone who relaxes too much. ;)

As it is; you did choose to be here.  And you also likely chose to come back here =).  You're trying to connect with a piece of yourself, yet you already are connected to it.  Perhaps you're just not listening or can't really interpret things.   Perhaps you're looking for hard-evidence type of answers when you should trust your feelings some more.  No amount of words will fully convince you of anything you don't already believe (at least that's what I think).

As far as loving someone; what you have to ask yourself is this "What do you really love?"  Is it the body, the personality, the presence or something beyond all of that which you can't really explain?  A body dies, a personality also dies and a presence is a manifestation of your own emotions on someone.  So what DO you really love in the end?  If you love someone genuinely, it will go beyond the looks, the personality and the little things that seem to mater so much.

It seems that your patience is what's killing you here.  You gotta work on patience and concentration.

Quote from: knucklebrain1970Ok, Reincarnation. Supposedly, I chose to be here. Right? Well since I'm so disconnected with my true self, and no matter what method I try I can't connect, I find it hard to believe that there are 2 of me;
1. My physical Self
2. My spiritual Self

Now my physical self does not want to reincarnate again. I've had it with this planet, I don't want to come back. Sad to say that? Yes, but I'm serious.

Now if my "TRUE- SELF" wanted to come here to experience and I can't remember because I'm disconnected and probably never will be reconnected, then how the hell and I to believe that there is such thing as free will.

Do you know how sickening it is to me to learn of everyone elses enlightenment's and astral travel and to want to experience it myself, but nothing works. I feel no energy, I can't relax.

Also, what is the sense of loving someone if you are separated at death and carnate into another body?

I find the free will concept very hard to believe. I want what I want, but my true self wants different?

This is what really really really aggravates me to no end and I want to explode. Now granted, I've only been meditating for a month, if that, but how long does it take before I have the ******* answers to the questions that have been gnawing at my stomach since my inception on this planet. Yeah I'm mad, very angrily ticked off type of mad dammit :lol:

Kevin

Quote from: LegendAs it is; you did choose to be here.

How do you know this? I assume you mean "here" as in the physical world. Please don't dodge the question. Were you raised thinking this way, did you have an experience, do you know by reason, or do you "just know?" What is your support?

As it is; that is a very convoluting and presumptuous statement. Don't you think he knows more about his own choices than you do?

Quote
How do you know this? I assume you mean "here" as in the physical world. Please don't dodge the question. Were you raised thinking this way, did you have an experience, do you know by reason, or do you "just know?" What is your support?

As it is; that is a very convoluting and presumptuous statement. Don't you think he knows more about his own choices than you do?

I think that it's just a dogma that can't be proved, like heaven and other concepts... Also what if the "higer self" is only the mental construction, or other, independent entity?

knucklebrain1970, your post so resonates with me, I registered just to reply...

Quote from: knucklebrain1970Ok, Reincarnation. Supposedly, I chose to be here. Right?

That's what they say, unfortunately :(

QuoteWell since I'm so disconnected with my true self, and no matter what method I try I can't connect, I find it hard to believe that there are 2 of me;
1. My physical Self
2. My spiritual Self

I find it hard to believe too...in fact, I don't believe it.  How can I be in 2 places at once, and one that I can never remember or go back to?? To me, there's just no point to be both 'up there' and 'down here' at the same time.

QuoteNow my physical self does not want to reincarnate again. I've had it with this planet, I don't want to come back. Sad to say that? Yes, but I'm serious.

Amen!  You and me both!  I can't stand this place, I NEVER want to come back. I love my family and friends, and the earth is beautiful, but it's just not worth it going through this rat-race of a life.

QuoteNow if my "TRUE- SELF" wanted to come here to experience and I can't remember because I'm disconnected and probably never will be reconnected, then how the hell and I to believe that there is such thing as free will.

I do believe in free will, as I'm free to do whatever I like here..I can break laws, I can adhere to them.  I can go to work today, I can stay home.  I can make money and have a home, or I can be homeless.  I can go left or right...you get the idea. The thing that hits home for me is where you say "I can't remember" because that's the most frustrating thing for me.  Why on earth can't I remember the mistakes I've made before, the things I've done before so I can correct them??  How do I know I don't keep doing the same damn stupid stuff over and over and over...it's gotten to the point where I'm wishing for annihilation when I die...total nothingness, my personality wiped out, nothing after the brain dies, the perfect materialist view. What's the point to keep coming back if I can't fix things??

QuoteDo you know how sickening it is to me to learn of everyone elses enlightenment's

Hey!  "Everyone"? Certainly not!  Fughettabout it man, I'm in the same boat you are!  And don't always believe it when people tell you they are 'enlightened'. There are stages to everything. Supposedly, from some of the reading I've done it's an endless cycle and once you get to the top...if you ever do...you do it all again because you have ... eternity. At this point, IMHO being eternal is a horrifying concept.

Quoteand astral travel and to want to experience it myself, but nothing works. I feel no energy, I can't relax.

Meditation takes a looong long time to get right.  I've been doing it for months and some days I just can't sit still for more than 5 minutes :( It's long hard work.  I've mellowed with age so I find I can let things go more in a mental/emotional sense, but physically it's very hard for me to relax.  I always find my eyebrows pinched, or my hands tense or my shoulders tight. How people can sit or lie there like a floppy ragdoll I have no clue.  And no, I don't get any energy out of meditation either. Astral travel is something I never tried on purpose and I had a dream only once that I walked out of my apartment and into the hallway and didn't set off the house alarm. I don't know if people would consider that astral travel or an OBE.  Not that it was a very important or life-changing experience...I don't know what the point would be of purposefully trying to do either of those things, of how it would make my life better, or anyone else's.

QuoteAlso, what is the sense of loving someone if you are separated at death and carnate into another body?

Supposedly, your loved ones go with you on the journey to earth. There's separation at earthly death, but reunion in the afterlife and then you all go back to do it again.

QuoteI find the free will concept very hard to believe. I want what I want, but my true self wants different? This is what really really really aggravates me to no end and I want to explode. Now granted, I've only been meditating for a month, if that, but how long does it take before I have the ******* answers to the questions that have been gnawing at my stomach since my inception on this planet. Yeah I'm mad, very angrily ticked off type of mad dammit :lol:

I agree with you wholeheartedly!  What's my purpose?  What am I supposed to be doing? Is there really a continuation of consciousness after death? What's the deal with spirit guides; do we all really have them or is that just a 'comfort blanket' to help people deal with life's miseries? All these questions and no answers...it's like a huge endless cosmic joke.

So, my higher self chose the way of my life before incarnating. Hm. Yet there is the theory of no-time. Ok. This means my higher self didn't chose anything before incarnating here, because no time = no before. Welcome free willl. Wait! I could as well be the imagination of my higher self. Hm. But no time, no space. Because of that my higher self is it's own imagination, which would be me. My higher self is said to have free will. Because I'm the imagination of my higher self, which is it's own imagination, which is me, I have free will.

Now I don't believe in a higher aspect of myself. This means the imagination of the higher self, which is me, which is the higher self, doesn't believe in itself. And, at the same time, I believe that what is me is only what's here on earth. Therfore the higherself, which is the imagination, which is me, believes it's only what's here on earth. So my higher self only believes that it's what's here on earth. So my higherself is not the higher self, but it's me, here on earth.

Wait! If my higher self doesn't believe in it's existance, I don't believe in my existance. Then who the heck wrote this nonsense?

But, Veccolo, our higher selves are actually manifestations of the same Higher God Self. So because you chose to incarnate yourself here, that necessarily means that I also chose you to be incarnated. And so did everyone else you meet. So you can thank us for your existence!

Lucky for You, since Our Higher Self exists independent of time, You've already thanked Yourself for Your own existence. And in fact, You're constantly thanking Yourself. Necessarily, others are also thanking You for Their existence as well.

Then I thank myself and you, Vectelos!

Hi everyone

I like this thread. :)

Here are my thoughts on the subject (well, kind of):

This was something i wrote to my friend a few weeks ago.

QuoteHey this reminded me of a revelation i had recently. I don't know if this is correct or not but it feels like it to me.  Well you know about 'free will' right?  From all the reading's that i've read and from what other people said about free will, they usually say that we have choices in life to shape our future; to make anything of our life of how we want it.  Well, for me, yes i think we have 'free will' to a certain extent, but life also has to move on.  I believe that in order for us to learn certain lessons in life, there are things that are in placed for us to follow.  Yes you have the free will to quit that path (meaning suicide) or continue with that path.  And maybe we have 'free will' to shape ourselves and decide how to react to a certain situation and buying anything we want in that particular life time.  And even before that, maybe we have decided to set a certain road map before coming into this life (free will). But once you are in that life that you have set for yourself, you don't really have that free will.  Yes you are playing in a free willed playground that you have created becuase of the choices you made before entering into this life, but upon entering, you are playing a scripted story. It is pretty much like playing a game.  Super Mario for example, you can ride the Yoshi how many times you want, you can jump how many times you would like,  you can go back and forth between the levels as many times as you want, It doesnt' matter how long you play the game or stall the game, but ultimately, you will reach the ending.  We are living in a scripted world that we have created for ourselves, and that in itself is the lack of free will.  Once we get out of this 3D program (going to 4D, 5D, etc.) we will have more free will but only until death do we have the ultimate freedom that is called 'free will'.  Now.. now... i'm not trying to tell you that you should go commit suicide to achieve 'free will'.  That would defeat the purpose of learning the lessons needed learned.

As you can see, I really do think we have free will.  It's just that we used most of our free will to create our 'life plan' before coming here.  When we are here, it doesn't seem like we have much free will because we are playing out a 'plan'.

knucklebrain1970

QuoteWell since I'm so disconnected with my true self, and no matter what method I try I can't connect, I find it hard to believe that there are 2 of me;
1. My physical Self
2. My spiritual Self

Well... it may be difficult but we can try to use some simple clues that we "know" to understand a little bit better.  Let us begin by asking a few questions.  Do we (you) know if astral projection exists? (Personally, i have had an out of body experience before, so i know it exists.)  Have we (you) heard of people recounting their experiences of looking at their bodies when they were out of their bodies? (yes for me)  Now think about it for a few seconds.  What are your thoughts?  We don't have to assume right away that there is a "spiritual self," but we must assume that there is some kind of aspect of ourselves out there other than just our physical self.  Why?  Because we have many people saying that they SAW their bodies.  How can that have happened if all we have are our physical self?  :)

QuoteNow my physical self does not want to reincarnate again. I've had it with this planet, I don't want to come back. Sad to say that? Yes, but I'm serious.

Yeah i know what you mean.  We can get discouraged of our lives sometimes, and just want to quit.  But you know what?  Let's just assume that we have another aspect of our selves that have the whole collective consciousness of all of our lives experience.  Our other 'selves' might know what is good for us, whereas our physical selves is limited to the 3D perception and do not grasp fully of the good and the bad .  This could be why people reincarnate; their other selves (not physical selves) decided for the benefit of themselves (and everyone else).

These are just some things i believe anyway.  I dont' know what other people think.

Well, I hope people understand what i'm saying.  I'm not really good with words.  My thoughts are so messy. :oops:

Love, Peace, and Cheers,
LittleNinja

PS everyone should listen to Damien Rice's music.  It's amazing, and has nothing to do with this.  :P

Quote from: CaCoDeMoNI think that it's just a dogma that can't be proved, like heaven and other concepts... Also what if the "higer self" is only the mental construction, or other, independent entity?

I totally agree. None of those concepts can be proven, not even to oneself. Experiences (wich many see as definite evidence) are nice, but they don't prove such concepts at all. They prove that something is experienced, but the experience itself doesn't necessarily reflect what's actually there. Just like in the story with the blind men and the elephant.

So in the case of reincarnation: Someone has an experience in which he remembers a past life (let's say the name of the person, where he lived, when etc.). He tries to verify this informations and succeeds. Everything correct. So, did he remember his past life? That's one explanation. Another would be that he got the informations from the collective unconcsiousness, which holds every memory of every past and present human being. So we now have two explanations for the same phenomenon, but we don't know which one applies. In the end the person doesn't know if reincarnation exists or not.

Let's say the person above chooses to believe in the past life.

Now, another person has another experience. Let's say, she meets god. So she meets god, who is an old geezer with a kilometer long beard who emanates unconditional love (which cannot be faked, or so they say) and what not. So, this old man grants the woman one question. She asks "Does reincarnation exists?". He says no, and the experience ends. Now we have an experience which contradicts the belief of the first person.

And the moral of the story is? You only have personal proof that you experienced something. However, those experiences cannot be definite proof for concept A, when considering the fact that other people may have experiences which "prove" concept B, but contradict concept A. Experiences can also not be definite proof for something when there are other valid explanations which you can't rule out.

I don't understand why people believe in such concepts like reincarnation etc. at all, then.

Quote from: knucklebrain1970Ok, Reincarnation. Supposedly, I chose to be here. Right? Well since I'm so disconnected with my true self, and no matter what method I try I can't connect, I find it hard to believe that there are 2 of me;
1. My physical Self
2. My spiritual Self

Now my physical self does not want to reincarnate again. I've had it with this planet, I don't want to come back. Sad to say that? Yes, but I'm serious.

Now if my "TRUE- SELF" wanted to come here to experience and I can't remember because I'm disconnected and probably never will be reconnected, then how the hell and I to believe that there is such thing as free will.

Do you know how sickening it is to me to learn of everyone elses enlightenment's and astral travel and to want to experience it myself, but nothing works. I feel no energy, I can't relax.

Also, what is the sense of loving someone if you are separated at death and carnate into another body?

I find the free will concept very hard to believe. I want what I want, but my true self wants different?

This is what really really really aggravates me to no end and I want to explode. Now granted, I've only been meditating for a month, if that, but how long does it take before I have the ******* answers to the questions that have been gnawing at my stomach since my inception on this planet. Yeah I'm mad, very angrily ticked off type of mad dammit :lol:

Kevin

What I can say is that with time, practice, and persistence, things start to become clearer and clearer. If some piece of information does not resonate with you, that's OK. If you try to think it all out logically, it's never going to fit together perfectly. Logic always leads to the illogical. It must because logic is based on duality- that is, a system in which everything is defined by opposing principles. If dualism, and therefore logic start with the premise of opposition, Truth cannot be found within them. Truth has no opposition- it just  IS. It is whole, perfect, and complete. Think of logic more like a path rather than a destination. It can never satisfy you for long, because eventually, it's bound to contradict itself.

In science we see how physics (the logical) leads to quantum physics (the seemingly illogical). So even science tells us that we have to go beyond the logical in order to move closer to Truth.

It's not so important that you believe in this or that or whatever. What's is of the utmost importance is an open mind and a thirst for growth and knowledge. Meditative practice can definitely take a long time before you see real practical benefits, but you must be persistent. You must have the mind-set that you WILL attain what you most desire, and that NOTHING is going to stop you. Practice every day without fail. It all adds-up to something, believe me. Never take for granted your small accomplishments. Acknowledge and celebrate EVERY millimeter of progress that you make.

If you can't imagine some great being out there somewhere that's supposed to be your higher self, just bring it down to a human level. Within everyones mind can be found what you might call "higher thoughts" and "lower thoughts". The ego can be defined by it's attachments to those "lower thoughts". The ego is not necessarily your enemy- think of it more like a spoiled child- it is always restless, complaining, never satisfied, and always wants change, but is rarely willing to make much of an effort in order to achieve that change- ESPECIALLY if that change doesn't seem "logical". I think it's very important to point-out your ego whenever it makes trouble. In regards to my meditative practice, there are many times when my ego whines and complains, telling me to give-up, that the process is taking too long etc etc etc. But there is a "higher" part of me that is always calm, patient, and wise- it just says, stay calm, be still, and keep doing what you're doing. When your ego is whining and complaining, objectify it. Think of it as a spoiled child that is a part of you, but not nearly all of you. It is something that you have purely for the sake of survival, so all it is interested in is base-level experience. You must be like a  parent with a steady resolve. This world is so very messed-up, I believe, because instead of seeing the ego as just a part of us, we take it to be totality of us. So we have a world of people being lead by their base child-selves.

As you practice daily, in time, things will inevitably make more and more sense. You become more confident in what you believe and in what you know you can achieve. Boundaries will start breaking down and a wider reality will begin to open-up for you. The key is to be relentless in your search for Truth. If what people tell you about Truth does not satisfy you, that is OK. It is something for you to know and experience for yourself; something that must come from within and resonate with you at your core.

Proving things to people, or having them prove things to you... really, that is not very important. All that matters is you achieving wholeness and fulfillment within yourself. When that happens, you can't help but be a benefit to others, weather they believe the words that come out of your mouth or not.

Quote
I do believe in free will, as I'm free to do whatever I like here..I can break laws, I can adhere to them. I can go to work today, I can stay home. I can make money and have a home, or I can be homeless. I can go left or right...you get the idea. The thing that hits home for me is where you say "I can't remember" because that's the most frustrating thing for me. Why on earth can't I remember the mistakes I've made before, the things I've done before so I can correct them?? How do I know I don't keep doing the same damn stupid stuff over and over and over...it's gotten to the point where I'm wishing for annihilation when I die...total nothingness, my personality wiped out, nothing after the brain dies, the perfect materialist view. What's the point to keep coming back if I can't fix things??

What if life is like in Franz Kafka's "The Trial"?

Awesome replies guys. As for the astral projection, I've had sleep paralysis and the vibrations about 200x in my life. I never really understood what it was until I got here, now of course they've stopped. Imagine that ha? What gets to me most of all is the game. Why the ***k the game? Why? I know there is my physical body and my true self, spirit, energy, whatever you want to call it. I believe that. I just can't  understand the concept that I chose to be here. I hate Earth. I will not choose to love it either. I am learning slowly to love all people, but I CAN NOT STAND THE RAT RACE. I'M SO DONE. If I did not have a wife or child (who doesn't live with me) I'd check out so fast. I'm not depressed either. I just want answers dammit, and I shouldn't have to meditate for 20 years for it. It's not right. That's where I get ticked off. It shouldn't be a game, but it is. I will never adapt. I will continue to meditate, though the results are slower than the days go by at my miserable job. I do not believe the reincarnation concept is fair. I do believe it, but I don't like it. I wish I was like my dad and his single statement to sum up humanity.

"when you die your dead and that's it, done"  :lol: :lol: :lol: :shock:

I wish I could willingly adopt that concept :lol:

Kevin

QuoteI just want answers dammit, and I shouldn't have to meditate for 20 years for it. It's not right. That's where I get ticked off.

Who said that you have to meditate for 20 years?  Who said you have to meditate in general?  I don't meditate at all (well, I've tried a few times but most of those times i ended wanting to go to sleep instead :shock: ), and i'm perfectly content with that. Enlightenment to me is not about forcing yourself to do something you don't want to do, it is about learning to accept/love/understand reality: about yourself, about the world, and about everything else that seems to be revolving around you.  After all, this is your life. You should enjoy it.

There are other methods to attain the truth that you seek; just like there are many other paths reaching the top of a mountain.  The method that i used in subsitution of the meditation is by just going through life as usual, and just think about all the things that had happened, is happening, and will happen to me; about the people, about their reactions.  Then i delve deeper into it.  Why did that happen? Why did he acted that way? How come they are mad?  Happy? Sad?  The more you question and explore the world, the more "fulfilled" you become.   You gain understanding, wisdom, and then you will be able to answer the question about life and why you chose to be here, this place, right now.  But before trying to understand others, you must KNOW your self.  This is because the world around you is shaped by your  own perception.  What you feel, what you think you know, and what you thought as good could be totally opposite of what someone else might think.   You can get to KNOW yourself by doing the same thing i showed you about reflecting upon other people and events.  Why am i mad at her?  Why does this happen to me?  Is what i am doing really me?  Continue with it and you will have a lot of control over your emotions, and you'll become more empathetic as a side effect.  Once you KNOW yourself, you will be able to understand others more.  Everything will begin fitting together like pieces of puzzle.  Though, you won't easily get all the pieces but you will have some that fit just enough for you to have a little concept of it.  

In truth, no one can answer your questions, only you can.  You may not get the right answer, but you won't get the wrong answer either because in your reality, it is true to you.  The thing is, you will get your "own" truth.

QuoteI wish I could willingly adopt that concept

If only life was that easy.

I think your decision in not willingly adopt to that concept is awesome.  I mean, why should we give up so easily?  Why not search for the truth, and decide for ourselves?  That would be much more fun and worthwhile in my opinion.

QuoteDo you know how sickening it is to me to learn of everyone elses enlightenment's

I want to address this quote.  I don't think we should care whether or not that someone else is 'enlightened.'  This is our life.  Our main focus is on us.  Everybody will become enlightened when they are enlightened.  Then again, not everyone who called themselves enlightened are "enlightened."

QuoteI am learning slowly to love all people, but I CAN NOT STAND THE RAT RACE. I'M SO DONE.

Yeah loving other people is good.  You are making great progress, so don't give up so easily. :)

QuoteI just can't understand the concept that I chose to be here.

Relax, we will know the truth someday. 8)


Love  & Peace
w/ LittleNinja

I just wanted to add something.  Meditation is not required for spirituality.  It is used mostly to "enhance" someone's psychic abilities (ie. astral projection, telepathy, aura seeing, etc).   Just some clarification.

Have a great day everyone.


Cheers :D
w/ LittleNinja

I think I can answer the question about why we forget. There are two big reasons. The first is so we don't get weighed down by stupid things we've done in the past. If you had clear memories of a life where you were a serial killer it could be extremely difficult to not feel overly guilty about that and go on with your life. Not to mention picking up old bad habits and personality traits.

The second reason is that life is a journey. We are here to learn and to grow, and one of the most powerful motivations for growth is the search for answers. If you already know the answers you don't search and that can easily lead to stagnation. Remember, life is hard, sometimes it sucks. But, that which doesn't kill you makes you stronger. And sometimes, that which does kill you makes you stronger too.

From what I've been able to find, there isn't too much spiritual progress that can happen in the spirit world because it is a very peaceful understanding place. On a physical level you don't get stronger without exercise, without tearing down the muscle so your body forms new muscle. The same idea applies on a spiritual level. The tearing down and harshness of the world lead to development and strength.

As I know so little about reincarnation, I will instead offer a humourous statement I came up with.

"Never beat a dead horse, you could be beating your next child."

Not entirely funny... I couldn't think how to word it right, and it only works if you think you can live past lives as animals and not solely humans as I'm sure some may think.

Quote from: knucklebrain1970Now my physical self does not want to reincarnate again. I've had it with this planet, I don't want to come back. Sad to say that? Yes, but I'm serious.

Now if my "TRUE- SELF" wanted to come here to experience and I can't remember because...

You see, you can't 'remember'... there is a particular awareness that there is something to be remembered, a part of you that is watching form outside...
Sometimes we are just left in a particular situation which implies a lower level of awareness than our capacities, especially because we are able to make this experience: that there is no fall, that we rise from within with no other help... Sometimes angels (take this as a convention, or as a symbol for a particular type of helping persons or happenings)... so sometimes they interfere in our life, other times they are allowing us of to be what we are. They let us fall, so to say... lol
and then we fall and discover that there has never been such a peace and satisfaction in our existence, since we remember. Then we relax.

Quote from: knucklebrain1970Also, what is the sense of loving someone if you are separated at death and carnate into another body?

Who says that you are not going to meet that person dear to you in other lives, too? Maybe your wife and child are old family members or good friends to you.

Quote from: knucklebrain1970I find the free will concept very hard to believe. I want what I want, but my true self wants different?

Who does not believe  :) , your true self or the physical self? The true self contains/is your entire being and existence, there is no duality at that dimension of conscience, the physical is one of the interfaces (you see, I managed to learn a bit about computers  :wink: ) of the true, complete self.
This duality between true and physical is a product of the right parasympathetic. To be conscious of what we are, the awareness has to be distributed on both left and right parasympathetic (which are complementary) and on the central nervous system, which keeps the two in balance.
If we are too much on the right, being too much active or creating etc., the complete self (which is always aware, even though our conscious mind is not connected to it and does nor perceive this) will push us to the left, to keep the balance.
This is the depression: an energy saving and balancing program, designed to compensate the over activity/the activity which is not reported to the integrated self.
It's nothing bad. Important is that you get what you desire, your answers. It's between you and you, there is only one, who else can be in that person? Of course the question rising is 'what are you?'

Quote from: knucklebrain1970...how long does it take before I have the ******* answers to the questions that have been gnawing at my stomach since my inception on this planet.

You seem to keep the awareness of a particular free will, which has brought you 'on this planet'. Though this is not so important.


You can try to balance your right Swadhisthana chakra (right lower part of the abdomen), which does not let you relax, giving it vibrations with the left hand. You can ask your Kundalini to get there and dissolve this feeling that you are not one. Don't bother too much to feel something, let it be a time, let that center be nourished.

Some people just know each other from other lives, it's not a matter of logic here, they recognize each other, are to continue things, because of karma of because they are simply enjoying to be in each other's presence a longer time. I suppose you also have meet a few such friends in your life. But at the end, when becoming collective, one can develop this feeling towards any other person.

Wow, now I realize; if we become spontaneously collective, we get rid of this free will burden.
:?:

[/quote]

Quote from: knucklebrain1970I hate Earth. I will not choose to love it either. I am learning slowly to love all people...

See, what I say...?

Quote from: knucklebrain1970I do not believe the reincarnation concept is fair.

It's fair enough, because it contains in it the fact that it is an illusion. That's why we don't need to "willingly adopt" it, because it is not real. The point is to have the desire/free will (is it the same  :?: ) to let this reality be disclosed.

Have a nice day, Kevin!

What Qaz_Azaran gave, sounded very reasonable.  Who knows, it could be true, but always remember to not accept everything as absolute truth.  In that way, you can have room for any reconfigurations and adjustments to those ideas. :)

Sweetbliss, you can ask your kundalini?  I thought you can use the kundalini energy only when it has been activated?

See what i mean? :oops:

Oh and Sweetbliss, you've got mighty fine computer skills with all your technical talks. :wink: :D

Wonderful days everyone. Wonderful days.

Love & Peace
w/ Littleninja

Quote from: LittleNinja...you can ask your kundalini?  I thought you can use the kundalini energy only when it has been activated?

Hey, Littleninja!  :) How is it then that there is no need for meditation, that things come up spontaneously, that we just go further with our life..., introspect a bit in the process...?  :wink:

'See what i mean? :oops:'

You can talk to Kundalini, because she is part of the conscience that has created you and is leading you further to Self realization. Our conscious mind might not perceive her, but she perceives everything our entire being is doing. You can talk to her as you can talk to your inner child, or to your guardian angel etc. Basically it happens like this in any circumstances we desire to address the unconscious, like prayers... Or, when we chose to live as you describe, we surrender to the unconscious, I believe.

Kundalini is so easy to awaken today, because the collective Kundalini has been awakened at the beginning of the '70; that's what they are calling a paradigm shift and that's why so many people are giving so much importance to spiritual seeking. According to older people, it was not like this before. Even Jung said that this seeking has been increasing from one generation to the other from the beginning of the last century.

So I believe that meditation is needed, because it helps us going through this process of transformation more smoothly, but the growth can also  be very natural, as you describe it.

Though, there are times at which it can become so abrupt that one feels like dying if he/she is not giving it the entire attention. It happened to me a few years ago, and it is like nothing can give any satisfaction or comfort, that it is the end, that you would stay your whole life the head down (I use to think like this, because it was the most horrible and uncomfortable thing I could imagine  :) ) only to get that state. I don't even remember where I had heard about it (maybe past life spiritual experience, I don't know), important was that it was the only thing my heart would want. Like anything else had disappeared and there were no support left.

But the nice point is that, if you lose any support and desire for any particular thing, but a kind of indefinite desire is still there (and this in the Kundalini), this experience of loss is the most comforting thing. It's like taking matter away from you. It is in a way like dying and starting life as a new person. For me was not a point in time, either I haven't heard of many such persons, it is gradual, and meditation can help.

(Now, I'm not pretending that I have remained in that state, it would be great, but still it's always good to remember.
Oh, and it's not something boring, sometime we think it must be boring. Actually it amplifies much both perceptions and involvement in the "struggles of life" lol.)

Wonderful days to you too.

Love & Peace
Ana-Maria

Quote from: Qaz_Azaran...that which doesn't kill you makes you stronger. And sometimes, that which does kill you makes you stronger too.

From what I've been able to find, there isn't too much spiritual progress that can happen in the spirit world because it is a very peaceful understanding place. On a physical level you don't get stronger without exercise, without tearing down the muscle so your body forms new muscle. The same idea applies on a spiritual level. The tearing down and harshness of the world lead to development and strength.

8) Thanks!

Welp, like I always say, your as dead now as you'll ever be. I wish I could understand or feel this energy everone speaks of. How long does it take?

Kevin

Sweetbliss

QuoteHey, Littleninja!  How is it then that there is no need for meditation, that things come up spontaneously, that we just go further with our life..., introspect a bit in the process...?

Well i believe that meditation is not needed because we can still become enlightened even by living our normal lives, just as long as we put some thoughts to all our actions and other people's action.  Sure, i know what i just described seems as if it's some kind of meditation, but it's not.  When we introspect within ourselves or doing any retrospection, we don't have to be super relax or having our minds cleared of any thoughts.  It's just, basically, thinking about the things we/they did, do, or will be doing.  We can think about it anytime we want; in the rain, in a traffic jam, at a carnival.  With introspection/restropection, it is instantaneous.  

Meditation, like you said, can "smoothen" the ride a bit and help us understand better, but it is not the absolute necessity.  I have said before that there are many paths or roads up the mountain reaching the final destination: enlightenment.  We can go on the rough road, smooth road, curvey road, straight road, etc.  It is up to us to decide what suits us best.  Only we know because this is our LIFE.

Also, what i described above about introspection/retrospection is not the only way to attain enlightenment.  There are probably some easier ways. (From what i've experienced so far, it feels like 'life' isn't that complicated.  I'm beginning to believe that 'life' is very simple. It is as if we are only making things difficult on ourselves.  Example?  Astral projection.)

QuoteThough, there are times at which it can become so abrupt that one feels like dying if he/she is not giving it the entire attention. It happened to me a few years ago, and it is like nothing can give any satisfaction or comfort, that it is the end, that you would stay your whole life the head down (I use to think like this, because it was the most horrible and uncomfortable thing I could imagine  ) only to get that state.

Interesting..... recently i've just got out of a long depression (sort of).  It wasn't that i was depressed.  It was more like feeling....."numb; emotionless; couldn't careless" of everything around me.  yeah, i do help people when i had the chance, and i do laugh when someone tells me a joke, but all those things were automatic to me.  I didn't help people because i wish them well but because it was my duty.  I laughed at the jokes not because it was funny, but it was courtesy.  I'm still recovering from the depression.  Currently i'm taking up learning how to play a guitar, and so far, it is great.

knucklebrain1970

QuoteWelp, like I always say, your as dead now as you'll ever be.

knucklebrain1970, if you are refering to dead as 'constrained; limited', then i agree with you.  Living on this 3d reality, we are very much limited to a lot of things.  It is here that life is dull (well, it's not really dull, but if you were to compare it with other realities, then it is the most......dead). But if you are refering to dead as 'what will happen to you after you die' then i disagree.  When we die, we will become more free, and life then will be more interesting.  The 'dead' here won't be the same 'dead' as when we die. (Sorry that it feels like what i'm saying to you is absolute.  It is not.  Remember to just absorb the things that you "Feel" intuitively is right.)

QuoteI wish I could understand or feel this energy everone speaks of. How long does it take?

I'm not sure if i've felt that energy before, so don't feel bad if you didn't.  The reason i know about the kundalini energy is because of my research on astral projection and other metaphysical stuff that i stumbled upon it. :)

My love to everybody (and this is for reals, it is not the depression making me do it) LOL

Love & Peace
w/ LittleNinja

Quote
knucklebrain1970, if you are refering to dead as 'constrained; limited', then i agree with you. Living on this 3d reality, we are very much limited to a lot of things. It is here that life is dull (well, it's not really dull, but if you were to compare it with other realities, then it is the most......dead). But if you are refering to dead as 'what will happen to you after you die' then i disagree. When we die, we will become more free, and life then will be more interesting. The 'dead' here won't be the same 'dead' as when we die. (Sorry that it feels like what i'm saying to you is absolute. It is not. Remember to just absorb the things that you "Feel" intuitively is right.)

I'd like to see those other realities. After I started interesting in occult and meditation my life become extremely enjoyable. Maybe that "dead" feeling is caused by the way people think?

CaCoDeMoN

QuoteMaybe that "dead" feeling is caused by the way people think?

Yes, definitely.

The reason i said this life is dull as compared to the other 'realities' is because of the limitations of the things you can do here on this world.  When we die, we go to another place (reality/realm/dimension), and we become free; free of the rules that bound us here.  Also when we go to 4d, 5d, 6d, etc., we become freer and freer with each ascending levels.

It is my belief anyway.

I am not saying that this life is actually 'dead'.  I do love it here.  I love the sun, the ocean, the trees, playing in the rain, running around, the good times, the bad times.  They are all amazing and wonderful. I love it.

QuoteI'd like to see those other realities.

Well, there are many ways to see those realities. (Note: These are not the only way.)  One of them could be astral projection.  Another is meditation.  and maybe suicide.  I don't recommend suicide because what's the point of living here on this earth anyway.  You have chosen this life to live in, and now you are giving up? If you didn't want to live here in the first place, then why did you choose to "reincarnate"?  I mean, just relax and enjoy what comes your way in this life.  It's all meant for YOU.

Have a beautiful day everyone.

Love & Peace
w/ Littleninja

Quote
The reason i said this life is dull as compared to the other 'realities' is because of the limitations of the things you can do here on this world. When we die, we go to another place (reality/realm/dimension), and we become free; free of the rules that bound us here. Also when we go to 4d, 5d, 6d, etc., we become freer and freer with each ascending levels.

And what can people do in those realities? Maybe with less limitations there is less things to do?

Quote
I don't recommend suicide because what's the point of living here on this earth anyway. You have chosen this life to live in, and now you are giving up?

1. How do you know that I have chosen this life?
2. Yes, suicide should not be used this way, but I do not agree that people should not commit suicide at all. Sometimes it's the best choice.

LittleNinja, my English (or my expression :? ) is not always so good.

What I wanted to say is that is it actually the same: meditation is needed, but can be replaces by a life lead in awareness, as you describe it, the same it is with the awakening of Kundalini, a practice is generally needed indeed and a good spiritual master, but the awakening can be a very spontaneous happening and it is not necessary that it takes long. It is the same, that's what I meant.

About how long does it take too feel it... If someone practices in a meditation center, it is much easier that alone. Because the energy is reflected by our hearts, so it is like love sharing, when you are on your own, you cannot feel to much. Awareness is also the same: if I read a book, I can understand it better if I have the chance to find somebody interested in it, to discuss about it. It also has the advantage that in a center there are people who can show how to clean and awaken the chakras, so it's much easier to improve. This is the best advice I can give!
And, Kevin, meditate together with your wife, if while doing energy work for her makes you feel it better.

For me it took some time to clearly feel vibrations on a physical level, because I had some throat chakra problems, but I felt it very much on the psychic level (peaceful control upon myself, independence, increased conscience, much more energy and a SENSE OF MEANING of life, because this is the part I had always been missing the most, even as a child). I believe that you feel it at that level of your being your subtle attention is more focused on. For instance, if you meditate on the heart, directing Kundalini to this area, the sense of inner unity will gradually install, and this is what you may feel. A nice sensation of open heart can also appear, or something like a cool breeze in the heart, but important is the sense of unity, if this is what you ask for.
:wink:

Hey, good luck everybody!

CaCoDeMoN

QuoteAnd what can people do in those realities? Maybe with less limitations there is less things to do?

I don't think by having less limitations that we would end up having lesser things to do.  Why? Because when we are not constrained, we are able to explore more possibilities that this life cannot provide for us.  It will then be like a new journey all over again.  We will explore more about those realities and learn about all the uniqueness that they have to offer.  

I am not saying that this life in this reality is useless or anything.  Each of the realities, including this one, help shape our perception of the world to gain a fuller awareness of the greater workings.  We will gain more and more understanding about the universe that would then help ourselves (leading to helping others).

Quote1. How do you know that I have chosen this life?

I must admit that what i said were based on my beliefs of how the world work.  I know that we won't know for sure until that "final phase" of our lives.  But with my reasoning, i believe that we have chosen this life because if we did not, then all this talk about 'free will' from spirit guides, to angels, to other higher beings were all a lie.  

If we were to follow the idea of "our lives were forced to reincarnate", then life in general has no free will.  We will then have to follow someone else's scripted 'plan' that they have created for us. What, then, is freedom?  Freedom to exist?  If we were forced to follow someone's plan, then why not create us so that we have all the collective information we needed at the start of our existance?  Why must they go through all the trouble of sending us to one reality after the other; life after life?

But to answer your question of how do i know? I don't.

Sweetbliss

QuoteLittleNinja, my English (or my expression  ) is not always so good.

Your english is bad? My buttcheeks. :oops: :wink:

No, really, i think your English is very good.  I should be the one to say that i'm not good at it.  So far, i've manage to be able to put some of the ideas in my head into words, but not all of them. My thoughts are a jumble.  I think with me being an Aquarius might have something to do with this.:)

QuoteAbout how long does it take too feel it... If someone practices in a meditation center, it is much easier that alone. Because the energy is reflected by our hearts, so it is like love sharing, when you are on your own, you cannot feel to much. Awareness is also the same: if I read a book, I can understand it better if I have the chance to find somebody interested in it, to discuss about it. It also has the advantage that in a center there are people who can show how to clean and awaken the chakras, so it's much easier to improve. This is the best advice I can give!

Wow!!! thank you so much sweetbliss.  I have never thought of meditation that way.  But as much as i am intrigued by the idea of meditation, I don't know if i can meditate though.  Everytime i do it, i always ended up feeling sleepy.  The odd thing about this is that, I am somehow managed to relax my body instantly if i ever wanted to, but can't meditate.  :? LOL.  I'm very weird (funny clumsy weird)......or so my friends told me. :(

well, my love to everybody.

Love & Peace
w/ LittleNinja

Hey everyone. I just found an article over at a transhumanist website (kurzweilai.net) about reincarnation. It's bascially just a short dialogue between two scientists, followed by a forum discussion.

http://www.kurzweilai.net/meme/frame.html?main=/articles/art0609.html

Just some food for thought, if anyone's interested.

Well I thought about these things myself quite a lot, I'll share some of my thoughts/experiences. They are independent so it may get abit messy :oops: (besides that my english isn't perfect..)

-I once had a dream when I was about 10 years old, I traveled very high up in the sky and suddenly all questions in my head were answered. It all made perfect sense, it all was perfectly fair. Everything is as it should be. Couldn't download the answers to my waking brain, though :cry:
I'll never forget that................

-Reincarnation: I picture a giant monster with different heads, every head is one consciousness. you are one head, I'm one head etc.. We forgot about the monster, now we believe we are all separate monsters, when you eat my food, I'm afraid I starve etc. of course this is all a huge illusion cause there is only one monster and it will never starve, it's heads will never get separated.
when one head turns around it sees the monster, it realizes that there is nothing to worry about(enlightenment) that it will always be united with the ones he loves and that it is completely pointless to get angry about an other head.
When one head dies, its consciousness will get sucked into the belly of the monster. There is a huge mother brain, which is aware of all heads at the same time, the "little" consciousness will merge with that all-embracing consciousness and all feelings of separation will vanish.

Or like a Zen master once said (Not word by word, though :roll: ): "Once you realize that every good dead you do to another, you actually do to yourself, and every harm you do to another creature, you actually do to yourself, then you'll become very friendly"


Now why could there be different heads?


-A couple of days ago a read a interesting dream diary of a guy that managed to lucid dream at will. (It is not even relevant if Dream diary is true or not.)

He has a couple of lucid dreams every night which are very clear and he has full control, meaning he can do what every he wants. Now, here comes the interesting part...........After a couple of months he started to get bored! He tried out all he could possibly think off.  He was like god in his dream worlds but it became boring quite fast:
So, He started to limit his powers in the dreams to make it interesting again. He deliberately gave away some of his lucidity and just let himself be carried away be the dreams. Which gave him new fun and experiences.
.............................................

Couldn't we (or our higherselfes) be similar to that guy? This thought makes me quite contemplatively. I mean, is it really that great to know everything and to have limitless power? If somebody would reach that state wouldn't he get bored sooner or later? I could very likely imagine that he would come up with a fun little game:
Put one part of himself into a world and limit his powers and memory's, make the rules that way, that this separated part will sooner or later return to himself again and retrieval "God-consciousness" once again.
No risks involved, I mean would could go wrong? Nothing! It sure would be quite a ride!  he would experience something he never could have imagined, limitations, fear.......The separated part would suffer, but hey, he would never be in real danger since he is indestructible and he will return to god-consciousness anyway.............
So the little part said: "yeah sure i do it! I can enjoy me limitless powers after that little adventure, so why not? Lets go, See ya later..........."


Hope you all like my little stories!  

Cheers Tom

Telos:

Interesting link and a quality debate.

Yours,
Frank

Quote
Couldn't we (or our higherselfes) be similar to that guy? This thought makes me quite contemplatively. I mean, is it really that great to know everything and to have limitless power? If somebody would reach that state wouldn't he get bored sooner or later? I could very likely imagine that he would come up with a fun little game:
Put one part of himself into a world and limit his powers and memory's, make the rules that way, that this separated part will sooner or later return to himself again and retrieval "God-consciousness" once again.
No risks involved, I mean would could go wrong? Nothing! It sure would be quite a ride! he would experience something he never could have imagined, limitations, fear.......The separated part would suffer, but hey, he would never be in real danger since he is indestructible and he will return to god-consciousness anyway.............
So the little part said: "yeah sure i do it! I can enjoy me limitless powers after that little adventure, so why not? Lets go, See ya later..........."

Hey! I've thought of exactly same thing. The life would be similar to a computer game then, without any higher meaning, with no right and wrong goals... This idea is fascinating...

Tombo: Great post!

I know what you mean!  :D

knucklebrain1970 (first post)

QuoteNow my physical self does not want to reincarnate again.
I've had it with this planet, I don't want to come back. Sad to say that? Yes, but I'm serious.
Now if my "TRUE- SELF" wanted to come here to experience and I can't remember because I'm disconnected and probably never will be reconnected,

Your physical self cant reincarnate for obvious reasons, but some of its thought patterns transfer to the spirit all the time, so the 2, while mostly separate, are similar to copies of each other. My body agrees with you the most, but both my parts often agree. This is a screwed up planet. Example: I was recently made to fill out the same form 3 times and give them all to the same person. Each individual form asked for redundant info. How many times do they need my name on the same page!!!

QuoteDo you know how sickening it is to me to learn of everyone elses enlightenment's and astral travel and to want to experience it myself, but nothing works. I feel no energy, I can't relax.

When you get sick enough of the "natural" way, some drugs work very well. Try salvia divinorum, a legal drug in usa, and can be bought at http://www.shamanshop.net. 20x or more, smokable extract works best, but theres also a liquid form.

To anyone who is desparate to have an OBE:

If you're more desparate, be very careful, and get "amanita" mushrooms, also legal in usa. They FORCED me to have some OBEs. Beware the time loops. During the more physical parts of it, I'd physically experience the same 15 seconds so many times I lost count, each time a little different, until I could diverge the events enough to break the loop. At the end of each loop, I was jerked out of my body and put back in it 15 seconds earlier, or so it appeared. But there was also a large part that was more fun and in my control. You'll either get a small "trip" with amanita or a really big one. It depends if you drink enough of the boiled product (tastes horrible) to have an OBE, so dont take half a dose and think it will work.

I use a pain medication once in a while for my back when it gets real bad. It's like ibuprofen supposedly and it's called ultram. I take one of those 4 hours before sleep and the body asleep, mind awake thing is very easily obtainable as well as the vibrational state and sleep paralysis. Lets face the facts here folks. Some folks like me, simply can not relax easily. I had about 4 days of vibrations last week, every night. No drugs. The ringing of the ears was very loud and I could ring it in and induce vibrations immediately as well as make my body go numb (asleep) within 10 minutes of lying down. This past few days, I can't relax. No particular reason at all. Perhaps the trance state will get easier. But for some folks, high strung like me, the only way I'm going to get a real obe is with drugs like vicodin and the ultrams. I'm not a druggie. I take like 4 ultrams a month for my back, just when the pain is agonizing. I'm working with NEW and trying to feel energy. For me it's a slow, slow, slow process. I have constant fear and anxiety and I don't find life on this planet easy as all. I am constantly in fear. I am a wreck in automobiles. I get panic attacks in the car constantly, for no apparent reason. I'm deathly afraid of getting in a fatal accident and being without my daughter who is 8 years old.
I have caused her great emotional pain by splitting up with her mother. I'm am riddled with guilt 24/7 and there is nothing in this lifetime that is going to make it go away. I see what I've done to her. I've made her myself. Though I try to instill good values in her and not get angry about anything and tell her to love everybody and have trust in humans, no matter what. You have to have trust, else, what is left? This doesn't have to mean opening up to the point of being walked upon. I guess what I'm saying is that I do all the things my dad didn't do to me. I am a mess psychologically because of 18 years of hard core physical violence (parents fighting) and always being on edge and wondering "what's gonna happen today?"
It sucks. I've seen every shrink there is. I've done every emotional fix-it thing you can think of. It's there and it ain't going away. This is my battle with life that I guess I chose for myself to deal with. It is not easy constantly being on edge. Klonazepam is the only thing on this planet that helps. I don't take a lot of it. About 1/2 of a .5mg pill per day. I will not take Prozac or any of that crap. I'm also glad that my daughter didn't see the violence I saw. So no matter how bad she is, she's better off than me. So sorry for rambling, but my point is that to relax, some of us need drugs. I hope the meditation will help me, but until then, if there is any hope of having an OBE, it's going to be with the aid of drugs. I was reading about the saliva plant (probably misspelled?)
I am afraid to take it. I hear it's like acid and I did acid (LSD) 2x in my life and it wasn't a pleasant experience by any means. I've also heard that that the affect from that plant only lasts like 5 minutes, is that true?

Kevin

Hey Telos, thanks for the link.  It was fantastic.

Tombo, that was a great post.  And I love your stories. :D

Quote from: Tombo
He has a couple of lucid dreams every night which are very clear and he has full control, meaning he can do what every he wants. Now, here comes the interesting part...........After a couple of months he started to get bored! He tried out all he could possibly think off.  He was like god in his dream worlds but it became boring quite fast:
So, He started to limit his powers in the dreams to make it interesting again. He deliberately gave away some of his lucidity and just let himself be carried away be the dreams. Which gave him new fun and experiences.
.............................................

Couldn't we (or our higherselfes) be similar to that guy? This thought makes me quite contemplatively. I mean, is it really that great to know everything and to have limitless power? If somebody would reach that state wouldn't he get bored sooner or later? I could very likely imagine that he would come up with a fun little game:
Put one part of himself into a world and limit his powers and memory's, make the rules that way, that this separated part will sooner or later return to himself again and retrieval "God-consciousness" once again.
No risks involved, I mean would could go wrong? Nothing! It sure would be quite a ride!  he would experience something he never could have imagined, limitations, fear.......The separated part would suffer, but hey, he would never be in real danger since he is indestructible and he will return to god-consciousness anyway.............
So the little part said: "yeah sure i do it! I can enjoy me limitless powers after that little adventure, so why not? Lets go, See ya later..........."


Hope you all like my little stories!  

Cheers Tom

Well, I think that's how it is in reality. That's the game of life... the endless cycle of death and rebirth. The thing is... there comes a point in your evolution where you get tired of the cycle itself. Having super-powers is a nice little fantasy, but surely you'd eventually get used to them and become bored. Consequently, attaining super-powers is not the highest goal of spirituality. The highest goal is to transcend the cycle; to transcend the duality of death and birth, pleasure and pain, rise and fall, power and weakness... boredom and excitement. The highest goal is to reach a point where boredom or monotony isn't even a part of your consciousness, except as perhaps abstract concepts. The guy who wrote the dream diary was primarily interested in having incredible experiences. If that is your focus, you will remain in the endless cycle. Because it is inevitable that you will, at some point, have those incredible experiences (even if it's only when you die). And when you do have them, what's going to happen? You will say, well that was nice, but what's next? This is what suffering is- never being satisfied with what you have now. As you gain more experience, you become increasingly conscious of the cycle, and soon want to no longer be a part of it. Understand, it's not about what you have or don't have. Because no matter how much you do have, it will never be enough. The master has reached the point where there is perpetually enough, no matter what his outer circumstances may look like. This is the highest goal- to be perfectly happy with the NOW, and the now, and the now, and the now. When that happens, time loses its meaning (and time is the reason that it's even possible for you to get bored).

We have incarnated in order to know who we are. By first experiencing who we are not, in this world, we gain a level of understanding that was imposable in our pre-birth state. As we gained more and more experience and understanding however, we also became attached to the cycle of reincarnation. I'm sure it was fun for awhile, but the more you realize that you've now become a prisoner of the cycle, the more you will try to find a way out. The next step in our evolution is then to transcend the cycle... to go beyond our limited dualistic nature.

Quote from: beavisIf you're more desparate, be very careful, and get "amanita" mushrooms, also legal in usa. They FORCED me to have some OBEs. Beware the time loops. During the more physical parts of it, I'd physically experience the same 15 seconds so many times I lost count, each time a little different, until I could diverge the events enough to break the loop. At the end of each loop, I was jerked out of my body and put back in it 15 seconds earlier, or so it appeared. But there was also a large part that was more fun and in my control. You'll either get a small "trip" with amanita or a really big one. It depends if you drink enough of the boiled product (tastes horrible) to have an OBE, so dont take half a dose and think it will work.

Do you happen to be a reader of Stuie Wild?

Drugs are stupid, you can't even be sure what you're seeing is real and not some hallucination, with all the self-induced delusions we already have to deal with with wanting OBEs so much, adding mushrooms to the mix would be foolish.

Nostic

QuoteThe guy who wrote the dream diary was primarily interested in having incredible experiences. If that is your focus, you will remain in the endless cycle. Because it is inevitable that you will, at some point, have those incredible experiences (even if it's only when you die). And when you do have them, what's going to happen? You will say, well that was nice, but what's next?

:P Hey, this is a little bit of a sidetrack from the topic but it is humorous nontheless. This was taken from a wonderful message group that I was in on yahoo.  The group somehow got deleted some times later without anyone knowing why. :cry:  

Anyway, at that time, the people on the group were discussing about the purpose of astral projection and all those stuff.  Then one person (a smart and wonderful guy who i really respect) wrote this.  I titled it, "Things to do in astral."

He wrote:

"Hmmm... I can go any place at all! Amazing. Let's try holding the universe
in my field of view. Ohhh wow. This is beautiful."
"Okay bored of that. Now lets try going to different time periods. Ohh hey
the future is pretty nice. Not too shabby. Woah! People can do that!? I
wonder if I can do that stuff too. Sure I can what am I thinking."

"Okay that was nice. Now lets try the outer realms of space time. Shaz!!
That was a ride! Hmm. Been through space... been through time... been
outside space-time... now what?"

"Okay performed a few healings in this state. Pretty useful, very
refreshing. Family liked it. Energized my aetheril body and opened all my
chakras, raised my kundalini and merged it with devine shakti... now what!?"

"Ok. I merged my astral sight with my third eye and my energy body has
become very lose. I can percieve astral signals within my body and see some
astral landscapes if I try hard enough. I can read cards before their delt
and heal people easily. Im a reiki master. Now what!?"

"Ohh... higher learning... I see... so the whole world works like that? Gee
who would have thought! So lets try changing the world around me... hey its
not so hard. Well I can make plants grow instantly, transport objects,
bilocate and read minds. Now what?"

"So all those previous skills were pointless? I see. The whole point of
graduating the human experience is what? Huh? Love? That doesnt make sense.
I've felt love before. Wha? I havent? Show me love."

"My eyes unclouded, I am.
Love is all there is."

*converts body to pure light and is one with all realms of existance*

Playfully,
-Grant



My love to everyone. :)

Love & Peace
w/ LittleNinja

Quote from: LittleNinjaNostic

QuoteThe guy who wrote the dream diary was primarily interested in having incredible experiences. If that is your focus, you will remain in the endless cycle. Because it is inevitable that you will, at some point, have those incredible experiences (even if it's only when you die). And when you do have them, what's going to happen? You will say, well that was nice, but what's next?

:P Hey, this is a little bit of a sidetrack from the topic but it is humorous nontheless. This was taken from a wonderful message group that I was in on yahoo.  The group somehow got deleted some times later without anyone knowing why. :cry:  

Anyway, at that time, the people on the group were discussing about the purpose of astral projection and all those stuff.  Then one person (a smart and wonderful guy who i really respect) wrote this.  I titled it, "Things to do in astral."

He wrote:

"Hmmm... I can go any place at all! Amazing. Let's try holding the universe
in my field of view. Ohhh wow. This is beautiful."
"Okay bored of that. Now lets try going to different time periods. Ohh hey
the future is pretty nice. Not too shabby. Woah! People can do that!? I
wonder if I can do that stuff too. Sure I can what am I thinking."

"Okay that was nice. Now lets try the outer realms of space time. Shaz!!
That was a ride! Hmm. Been through space... been through time... been
outside space-time... now what?"

"Okay performed a few healings in this state. Pretty useful, very
refreshing. Family liked it. Energized my aetheril body and opened all my
chakras, raised my kundalini and merged it with devine shakti... now what!?"

"Ok. I merged my astral sight with my third eye and my energy body has
become very lose. I can percieve astral signals within my body and see some
astral landscapes if I try hard enough. I can read cards before their delt
and heal people easily. Im a reiki master. Now what!?"

"Ohh... higher learning... I see... so the whole world works like that? Gee
who would have thought! So lets try changing the world around me... hey its
not so hard. Well I can make plants grow instantly, transport objects,
bilocate and read minds. Now what?"

"So all those previous skills were pointless? I see. The whole point of
graduating the human experience is what? Huh? Love? That doesnt make sense.
I've felt love before. Wha? I havent? Show me love."

"My eyes unclouded, I am.
Love is all there is."

*converts body to pure light and is one with all realms of existance*

Playfully,
-Grant



My love to everyone. :)

Love & Peace
w/ LittleNinja

LOL, you were just waiting for the perfect time to pull that little story out of your hat, weren't you? Cute, real cute.  :)

QuoteWell, I think that's how it is in reality. That's the game of life... the endless cycle of death and rebirth. The thing is... there comes a point in your evolution where you get tired of the cycle itself. Having super-powers is a nice little fantasy, but surely you'd eventually get used to them and become bored. Consequently, attaining super-powers is not the highest goal of spirituality. The highest goal is to transcend the cycle; to transcend the duality of death and birth, pleasure and pain, rise and fall, power and weakness... boredom and excitement. The highest goal is to reach a point where boredom or monotony isn't even a part of your consciousness, except as perhaps abstract concepts. The guy who wrote the dream diary was primarily interested in having incredible experiences. If that is your focus, you will remain in the endless cycle. Because it is inevitable that you will, at some point, have those incredible experiences (even if it's only when you die). And when you do have them, what's going to happen? You will say, well that was nice, but what's next? This is what suffering is- never being satisfied with what you have now. As you gain more experience, you become increasingly conscious of the cycle, and soon want to no longer be a part of it. Understand, it's not about what you have or don't have. Because no matter how much you do have, it will never be enough. The master has reached the point where there is perpetually enough, no matter what his outer circumstances may look like. This is the highest goal- to be perfectly happy with the NOW, and the now, and the now, and the now. When that happens, time loses its meaning (and time is the reason that it's even possible for you to get bored).

We have incarnated in order to know who we are. By first experiencing who we are not, in this world, we gain a level of understanding that was imposable in our pre-birth state. As we gained more and more experience and understanding however, we also became attached to the cycle of reincarnation. I'm sure it was fun for awhile, but the more you realize that you've now become a prisoner of the cycle, the more you will try to find a way out. The next step in our evolution is then to transcend the cycle... to go beyond our limited dualistic nature.

Wise words. But wherefrom do you know, why we incarnate?
I mean, it is a nice concept to believe that we incarnate to know who we are, but after all it is a believe, isn't it?

Yes, you are correct. It is a belief.

Quote from: NosticLOL, you were just waiting for the perfect time to pull that little story out of your hat, weren't you? Cute, real cute.  :)

Yeah.  I've had that thing for so long, and didn't know when I was able to post it..............until now. :P  :oops:


Happy days to everyone.

Love & Peace
w/ LittleNinja

Quote from: NosticYes, you are correct. It is a belief.

Now, I'm confused! :?  Did you edit that reply?  I could swear your reply changed since the last time I read it, but it doesn't say "edited" therefore I'm confused........... What happened?

Quote from: knucklebrain1970Ok, Reincarnation. Supposedly, I chose to be here. Right? Well since I'm so disconnected with my true self, and no matter what method I try I can't connect, I find it hard to believe that there are 2 of me;
1. My physical Self
2. My spiritual Self

no. you are not separated from your higher self. you just forgot who you are.

Quote from: skydust

Quote from: knucklebrain1970Ok, Reincarnation. Supposedly, I chose to be here. Right? Well since I'm so disconnected with my true self, and no matter what method I try I can't connect, I find it hard to believe that there are 2 of me;
1. My physical Self
2. My spiritual Self

no. you are not separated from your higher self. you just forgot who you are.

Alright, how do I jog my memory in this SICK little game of life?
Any ideas? Anybody? :shock:

Kevin

Quote from: Tombo

Quote from: NosticYes, you are correct. It is a belief.

Now, I'm confused! :?  Did you edit that reply?  I could swear your reply changed since the last time I read it, but it doesn't say "edited" therefore I'm confused........... What happened?

I edited it because I didn't want to be defensive. I was saying yes it is a belief, BUT... I thought to myself though, why do I have to go on? There is nothing wrong with it being a belief. Beliefs are all we have. Until you attain Christ or Cosmic Consciousness, what else is there but belief?  :wink:

Kevin,

It's a slow process. I am in the same boat as you. I desperately want to connect with my higher self but seeing as this is probably the most important journey I am going to embark on in this life I am taking it one step at a time and am doing plenty of prep work. This includes trying to resolve my anger issues i.e. anger at the world in general as this in itself is an attachment to the world and is doing nothing but impeding my progress. Also I am trying to overcome my impatience to "achieve" something as we shouldn't forget that the journey is as important as the destination if not more so.

I am no further along the road than you but I would suggest that you try to enjoy your periods of meditation and stop trying so hard to get somewhere. Also do whatever you have to do to try and resolve some of the anger you bear for "this SICK little game of life"  :lol: . If you can do this it will free you to move on in your spiritual journey, I am sure. In time (and we should accept that it may be a while) I'm sure we will both reap the rewards and find our higher selves.  :)

knucklebrain,

Great post, I've asked most of the same questions and am as frustrated as you.  I've thought of telling my "higher self" to go and screw itself (myself?) for sending me into this mess!

I tried the astral projection techniques in Robert Bruce's book - guess what?  Just once, out of hundreds of attempts I actually got the vibrations, like electricity pulsing through me & seriously racing heartbeat.  Scared the living cr*p out of me I can tell you, but at least I got some kind of clue that all the stuff people talk about here could be true after all.  What's really frustrating me is that I tried to repeat it 100's of times and it never came back.

All the best, hope things work out better for you.
FQ.

Hello Kevin!

I dont believe reincarnation neither incarnation is real. ¡Whats born into existence is never real!  All things in time sphere never reach the point where we can say they are real. Realness cant be treathened.  Reincarnation happens only in our minds, life and death too. Step aside your own dream,... where you have always really been.  :)
 
To know your Higher Self you have to do nothing, stop concerning on the meaning of life. Dont search the answers, recieve them with an open heart and a calm mind. Forget all what you have learned, or read, empty yourself so answers may come. You cant reach God, let him reach you. Acceptance will give you understanding.  :wink:


Thats what I think and my advise for you, just in case I,m in the position to do so.  :lol:

Hello...
I am new to this sight, but I have been achieving enlightenments over a period of ten years now which has led to a fulfilled  life of peace, serenity, and understanding. I just stepped in to offer a very basic exersize to try to help you understand. Choose your favorite time of day,early dawn or when the sun is setting over a horizon, whatever appeals to you most. Sit quietly taking a moment to enjoy your surroundings. Find something that appeals to you to focus on.(preferably
something to do with nature)I suggest something in nature due to the fact every living thing has its own energy. A tree, A flower. Continue to see it for what it is.It's color, shape, the simple things that you appreciate about the object you chose. Focus on it's beauty, Soon you will notice as if you are meditating on it, how everything around it begins to fade in color, in texture, and your object becomes more prominent. What you are doing is appreciating (a form of loving) and arriving at a point where you are actually exchanging energies with your object. Ask yourself How does this make me feel? That my friend is the very basic beginings of understanding basic love and enlightenment.
  From what I have read in these posts is anger, fustration, and much negativity, which all become major blocks on your road to enlightening yourself spiritually and eventually to even higher spiritual experiences This is basically where I started during a time of great frustration.
Once this is achieved I would more than love to share many other experiences and where they have taken me on my long jouney of spiritual understanding.
May peace and love be with you all
SP

Hey spiritualquest (http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/images/icon/icon16.gif)

You know what?  Sometimes I do that too, though, not for the sake of meditaion (I didn't even know that it was meditation). I do it because I love how the earth is shaped in a special way to form such a beautiful work of art. And so sometimes, i would just find place to sit and just admire at all the beautiful things in the environment (or while on a car driving home and seeing the sun setting with its beautiful rays of light casting different shades of color on the trees and buildings).  It's very cool. 8)

Anyway, your post is great. :)

Have a fantastic week everyone.

Love & Peace
w/ LittleNinja

Thankyou Little Ninja,
I don't use this for meditation either,( I wanted to put forth the focus point as if you were meditating) , but one has to learn to appreciate and learn to love all that is internal and external, as I'm sure you understand we can't recieve until we learn to give.Through these basic practices of appreciation we eventually come to understand the energy exchange with all things, and how it makes us feel, and how these feelings can start to help us to let go so we may eventually begin to replace the negative feelings,thus enhancing the ability to appreciate and love, bringing us to a new realization of self and all that which surrounds us.Opening the doors of wonderment, mystery, and understanding that open for us once we achieve these basic principals.
 I hope I don't sound like I'm lecturing.I don't want to do that.I had just hoped that I can lend to some basic understanding through some of the fustration I have been reading in these threads.When you so truely desire the knowledge for any type of spiritual understanding, and eventually development one has to learn the basics first. Kinda of like we all must learn to stand before we can learn to walk. I hope that I helped   lend a little insight to those whom are still seeking.
May peace be with all,
SP :D

I must say that for me meditation has been a BIG key to my spiritual growth. Through meditation I've been able to connect with my grandmother who's passed on(she likes to play tricks with the lights :lol: and sometimes I hear her extremely loud while in meditation) and I also get some wonderful and insights that I haven't been able to get prior to meditating. The thing is, meditating takes alot of hard work and as others have said, you have to be PERSISTENT and never give up!!! The results are compounded over the months and years. As one metaphysician put it, "if reaching enlightenment was that easy, many would have misused it's power and would have destroyed this planet a long time ago". I remember another metaphysician saying that meditating is kinda like climbing the rungs of a ladder, each step bringing you one step closer to your goal. I don't want to get into this too much because I know everyone has different opinions when it comes to spirituality, and I don't want to step on anyone's beliefs, but one thing I can say for sure is that the more you meditate, the more you become in "tune" with life. You have less accidents, things just happen to go your way, you find yourself getting less angered at things that would normally anger you, you smile more, You have flashes of spiritual insight that you never had previously, you open up psychic development etc.....  None of these things ever came to me prior to heavy meditating. Currently I meditate about 2 hours a day and have done so for about the last 10 years, although I did miss a week once when I went to Europe.  I know 2 hours a day isn't alot, but it's the persistence that's paid off for me.

Believe me, the benefits are really worth it. To me, reading books just gives you an academic sense of spirituality and it's hard to internalize that.

I really can't put in words what meditating has done for me, but I now know why it's preached so much in spiritual/metaphysical books.

As far as the comments regarding those who have been frustrated from a lack of results through meditating, I know where you are coming from, because I was once there myself!!!

For those learning how to meditate, take Robert Bruce's advice and pick up some of the hemi sync tapes fromt he Monroe Institue. The Gateway Voyage is the best!!

Also, when I meditate, I also have to create the mood, so some new age music(kitaro is my favorite) and some incense from India (Nag Champa) really creates the mood for me :)
99% of incense is yucky to me, so I'm really picky when it comes to incense :)

One other thing, to many people, the amount of time you have to sacrifice in meditation, isn't worth it for them to embark on such a journey, and I can completely understand that. In my younger days, I didn't feel it was worth my time either, but as the old saying goes, "when the student is ready, the master appears"    :wink:


Dusty ---> Who's still FAR from being enlightened (long way to go there).

Quote
I hope I don't sound like I'm lecturing.I don't want to do that.I had just hoped that I can lend to some basic understanding through some of the fustration I have been reading in these threads.When you so truely desire the knowledge for any type of spiritual understanding, and eventually development one has to learn the basics first. Kinda of like we all must learn to stand before we can learn to walk. I hope that I helped lend a little insight to those whom are still seeking.
May peace be with all,

good post! Thanx for sharing your info!  :) Yea, I don't like to sound like I"m lecturing either. I'm just relaying what's worked well for me and sharing my experience and knowledge :).  Your comments regarding anger, negativity etc are very true... Releasing those emotions so that they don't control you was one of the most difficult things I had to overcome! Getting over that was the hardest part. Although at this point in my life, I can now see how much they had held me back before I started getting serious.

Quote from: Dusty

Quote
I hope I don't sound like I'm lecturing.I don't want to do that.I had just hoped that I can lend to some basic understanding through some of the fustration I have been reading in these threads.When you so truely desire the knowledge for any type of spiritual understanding, and eventually development one has to learn the basics first. Kinda of like we all must learn to stand before we can learn to walk. I hope that I helped lend a little insight to those whom are still seeking.
May peace be with all,

good post! Thanx for sharing your info!  :) Yea, I don't like to sound like I"m lecturing either. I'm just relaying what's worked well for me and sharing my experience and knowledge :).  Your comments regarding anger, negativity etc are very true... Releasing those emotions so that they don't control you was one of the most difficult things I had to overcome! Getting over that was the hardest part. Although at this point in my life, I can now see how much they had held me back before I started getting serious.

I don't think you guys were lecturing.  I thought that both of your posts were very helpful (well.... helpful for me, i'm not sure about the others), and very good.(http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/images/icon/icon7.gif)

Quote...one thing I can say for sure is that the more you meditate, the more you become in "tune" with life. You have less accidents, things just happen to go your way, you find yourself getting less angered at things that would normally anger you, you smile more, You have flashes of spiritual insight that you never had previously, you open up psychic development etc..... None of these things ever came to me prior to heavy meditating.

Hmmm..... I dont know Dusty, i've been nicknamed "Smiley" by my teacher because he thinks that i smile too much (not just my teacher but my friends as well), and i don't meditate at all. I'm also seeing less accidents in my life as well, as if they were all meant to happened to me. It's weird that a lot of what you described has so much relevance to my current life situation.  I guess what i can make out of this is that i'm probably doing some kind of meditation that i am unaware of? :shock:  :?

QuoteTo me, reading books just gives you an academic sense of spirituality and it's hard to internalize that.

I couldn't agree more.  I believe that personal 'experience' is far greater than just reading from a book or listening to what someone else describes about their own experience.  However, i must say that i love to read and listen to other people's stories.

QuoteAlso, when I meditate, I also have to create the mood, so some new age music(kitaro is my favorite) and some incense from India (Nag Champa) really creates the mood for me

Hey i have one of kitaro's cd in my car.  Actually, it isn't mine, it is my brother's..... but what the heck, it doesn't matter whose it is from. And plus, i rarely listen to it. :P  :oops:  I'm always listening to Jack Johnson, Ben Harper, and Damien Rice's music; good stuff.  I'm currently trying to get my hands on Remy Zero, Athlete, and Ed Harcourt cds at a cheap price.  So far, no luck.  

Hehe. i know i'm going off tangent with this. :D

QuoteDusty ---> Who's still FAR from being enlightened (long way to go there).

Don't be modest, now.  :wink:

Anyway, it was nice meeting with you. :)

Have a terrific week, everyone.

Love & Peace
w/ LittleNinja

Quote from: LittleNinja

Quote from: Dusty

Quote
I hope I don't sound like I'm lecturing.I don't want to do that.I had just hoped that I can lend to some basic understanding through some of the fustration I have been reading in these threads.When you so truely desire the knowledge for any type of spiritual understanding, and eventually development one has to learn the basics first. Kinda of like we all must learn to stand before we can learn to walk. I hope that I helped lend a little insight to those whom are still seeking.
May peace be with all,

good post! Thanx for sharing your info!  :) Yea, I don't like to sound like I"m lecturing either. I'm just relaying what's worked well for me and sharing my experience and knowledge :).  Your comments regarding anger, negativity etc are very true... Releasing those emotions so that they don't control you was one of the most difficult things I had to overcome! Getting over that was the hardest part. Although at this point in my life, I can now see how much they had held me back before I started getting serious.

I don't think you guys were lecturing.  I thought that both of your posts were very helpful (well.... helpful for me, i'm not sure about the others), and very good.(http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/images/icon/icon7.gif)

Quote...one thing I can say for sure is that the more you meditate, the more you become in "tune" with life. You have less accidents, things just happen to go your way, you find yourself getting less angered at things that would normally anger you, you smile more, You have flashes of spiritual insight that you never had previously, you open up psychic development etc..... None of these things ever came to me prior to heavy meditating.

Hmmm..... I dont know Dusty, i've been nicknamed "Smiley" by my teacher because he thinks that i smile too much (not just my teacher but my friends as well), and i don't meditate at all. I'm also seeing less accidents in my life as well, as if they were all meant to happened to me. It's weird that a lot of what you described has so much relevance to my current life situation.  I guess what i can make out of this is that i'm probably doing some kind of meditation that i am unaware of? :shock:  :?

QuoteTo me, reading books just gives you an academic sense of spirituality and it's hard to internalize that.

I couldn't agree more.  I believe that personal 'experience' is far greater than just reading from a book or listening to what someone else describes about their own experience.  However, i must say that i love to read and listen to other people's stories.

QuoteAlso, when I meditate, I also have to create the mood, so some new age music(kitaro is my favorite) and some incense from India (Nag Champa) really creates the mood for me

Hey i have one of kitaro's cd in my car.  Actually, it isn't mine, it is my brother's..... but what the heck, it doesn't matter whose it is from. And plus, i rarely listen to it. :P  :oops:  I'm always listening to Jack Johnson, Ben Harper, and Damien Rice's music; good stuff.  I'm currently trying to get my hands on Remy Zero, Athlete, and Ed Harcourt cds at a cheap price.  So far, no luck.  

Hehe. i know i'm going off tangent with this. :D

QuoteDusty ---> Who's still FAR from being enlightened (long way to go there).

Don't be modest, now.  :wink:

Anyway, it was nice meeting with you. :)

Have a terrific week, everyone.

Love & Peace
w/ LittleNinja

hi there littleninja..
  well, I think you can gain different degrees of spirituality without meditating, but meditating is kinda like the shortcut and will get ya there much faster. I think some people are gifted and perhaps meditation isn't necessary, but in my opinion and based on the books I've read(Robert's Bruce's included), meditation is a shortcut to the process. It'a almost always requried if you want to make any kind of spiritual contact to a degree of satisfaction. I could never do that prior to learning to go into deep meditation. When you meditate, you raise your vibrations, which makes non physical communication possible. You really can't do that without meditating.

Now, if you just talking about becoming a more peaceful and loving person etc, then yes, you can get by without meditating. It really all depends on what your goals are, but for my goals, meditating has been mandatory and it's made a HUGE difference in my life that I couldn't get without meditating . It's all about your goals and what you want to get out of it.

best of luck to ya :)

Dusty