Reincarnation and our spiritual evolution

[SS_Patrick]

There are many misconceptions concerning reincarnation and spiritual evolution and therefore I want to write here about my own experiences and research conclusions to see what other people think about these subjects.

Since this is my first post here, It is probably best to mention that english is not my mother tongue and therefore some spelling errors may occur. Because of my other activities I don't have much time to be on computer, hence I have to write my posts rather bluntly.

Conclusions from my experiences and research:

1. Reincarnation is a fact
2. Reincarnation happens through blood lines (inside family or clan)*
3. Every human has a soul **
4. Soul can't merge with "light" or "god", we are all unique individuals and individuality is eternal
5. We are not "one".
6. Karma doesn't exist

*sometimes there are exceptions to this rule, but this is most common procedure
** I used word "soul" just because it makes easier to write this post. Consciousness or spirit may be a better word

I don't mention my sources in this post, because I don't want to sell or advertise anything, but if this thread has answers and someone wants to know my sources, I can mention them. Also, I don't claim to be an expert in this area, (history is my field of expertise), but I'm certainly not inexperienced in this stuff either.

[NickJW]

Some of these can't really be verified, example saying we are not all one, is more of a philosophical idea in the sense that I and some people may believe that we are all one with everything (the universe, both non-physical and physical) and is it not true if you put into account that the cosmos is one thing? Its a philosophical question that can't be proven or disproven at all.

[SS_Patrick]

In my opinion, there is enough evidence to show that reincarnation does happen. Of course, it's not enough for a materialist, but still there is much very impressive evidence. Best books I have read concerning reincarnation, are definitely Ian Stevenson's:

Twenty Cases Suggestive of Reincarnation

Reincarnation and Biology : A Contribution to the Etiology of Birthmarks and Birth Defects Volume 1: Birthmarks

Reincarnation and Biology : A Contribution to the Etiology of Birthmarks and Birth Defects Volume 2: Birth Defects and Other Anomalies

I want also to make it clear, that the things I wrote in my earlier post are my conclusions, I don't claim that for example Stevenson comes to these conclusions.

And because reincarnation does happen, it proves that same souls reincarnate again and again, they don't merge with anything. You are right in that, ultimately, it's impossible to know, what happens to us after 1 000 000 000 years from now etc.

It can be also, that we use different terms for same thing. I believe that we may be connected with everything, but we are still not the same. I'm not you or my computer or a fly. Often used phrase "we are like drops in the ocean" is clearly false, but maybe it could be said that we are like drops of oil in the ocean. We are connected to it, but still separate individuals.

[Stoner Shadow Wolf]

reincarnation is not tied to bloodlines, and a soul CAN reintegrate with another soul, be it god or your kid sister.

reincarnation is, however, tied to spiritual families, there are no bloodlines to speak of, just strong bonds between souls.

often times a pair of souls will spend every life together, with any bloodline, not their own, they may be born to completely seperate parents, or they might be siblings in another life.

every life is a new experiance, every experiance adds to the evolution of a soul, and changes the way that individual being interacts with the rest of reality, changing with every life.

when a soul evolves past the physical, they tend to merge with other souls who too have evolved beyond the physical.


we are, in fact, individual drops of water in an infinite sea of consciousness, but we are also seperate drops, and we do not form a real ocean untill we evolve out of our bodily needs.


this is not to say anything specific however, for in reality, all things hold possibility, the laws fluxuate eternally, and evolve with the mass of awareness.

[James S]

I'd like to add my two cents worth after having recently attended training seminars in past / parrallel life regression healing.

Our entire group, one at a time, were regressed to a past/parrallel life with the purpose of healing negative karmic influence.

though some of us experienced relevant past livees that were too distant to be verifiable, some of us experienced past lives that were within 100 to 200 years ago. Most of those people gave us facts and figures which we were then able to reseach.
We found the information they gave from their past lives to be 100% historically verifiable.

I was already completely comfortable in the belief that I've reincarnated many times. I've already had many past life visions, and have my whole life gotten "feelings" of another time another place.
But to hear other people recount historically accurate information just sealed the deal for me.

I agree though that reincarnation has nothing to do with bloodlines or other physical factors. It is purely soul level stuff. And our soul, as an entity in its own right, is far more vast in its awareness and its connection to other souls that we can imagine.

Blessings,
James.

[SS_Patrick]

"reincarnation is not tied to bloodlines"

"I agree though that reincarnation has nothing to do with bloodlines or other physical factors."

I have to disagree. Many verified, documented cases prove that reincarnation happens through bloodlines. Tlingits and other North American indians, Nigerian Igbos, my North European ancestors, and many other cultures share a common belief in reincarnation through bloodlines. I believe that this concept is right, because many verified documented cases (these can be found in the books I mentioned in my earlier post) prove this. In my opinion reincarnation outside of bloodline is an exception rather than a rule. Also, my own "visions" that I have had through meditation strengthen this idea. I have experienced ESP too with my relatives, but only with my relatives and only about things that have concerned my relatives. My cousin has experienced same thing, and only with relatives or concerning relatives. I believe that blood is really thicker than water. And about physical factors, Stevenson's research clearly shows that physical factors most definitely play a part in reincarnation.

"reincarnation is, however, tied to spiritual families"

That can't be proven, but if this is what happens, then maybe our earthly families and spiritual families are the same or almost same.

"we are, in fact, individual drops of water in an infinite sea of consciousness, but we are also seperate drops"

It could be like that, I wanted merely to adress that we are individuals, not just parts of some mystical mass. As I wrote earlier,"I believe that we may be connected with everything, but we are still not the same".

"I'd like to add my two cents worth after having recently attended training seminars in past / parrallel life regression healing."

I don't give much value to hypnosis as a past life regression tool. It can give accurate knowledge, and if you found verifiable evidence, that's probably real stuff. But in general I trust only in spontaneous cases.

"our soul, as an entity in its own right, is far more vast in its awareness and its connection to other souls that we can imagine."

I agree. That's why I don't trust many theories about these things; we can't know everything. I value far more verifiable evidence and logic than theories or occult etc. I don't want to mock anyone's beliefs, but in my opinion there is (in general) too much far-fetched theories, lies and mysticism about these things.

[CFTraveler]

In my opinion reincarnation outside of bloodline is an exception rather than a rule.

But the fact that it occurrs and is verifiable (at least by James) proves the point- it may not happen a lot, but it does happen.
If you build up Karma with someone in particular and carry it to the next lifetime, it makes sense for them to be part of your earthly family on the next, on and on until the karma is cleared up.  So it makes sense that the cases will tend to reocurr in the same family.  But that doesn't make it a rule- it makes it a trend.

[SS_Patrick]

"But the fact that it occurrs and is verifiable (at least by James) proves the point- it may not happen a lot, but it does happen."

I just wanted to add that both types of reincarnation (inside and outside of bloodline) have verifiable and documented cases.

I already wrote arguments for my conclusions on my previos post, so I won't repeat them here.

I don't believe in Karma, but I won't argue about that, until I know what you mean by that term. I have seen too many definitions for word "Karma", and therefore I need to know what you mean by that, before I can say anything about it.

[AndrewTheSinger]

James S, and all of them had remembrances of an Earthly life?

I like to think that we are touring across the Universe, there are so many places out there, my guess is that when people 'remember' things from a previous existence they are actually accessing memories from the earthly collective consciousness, thus scanning through sources they are more attuned to.

[James S]

Hi Andrew,

No, not all. Three of us had off-world experinces, myself included.

SS_Patrick,
I entirely agree about the whole karma thing. It gets so over-complicated!
The best, and one of the simplest explanations I've seen is from the past life regression seminars I attended:

Karma is the natural laws of cause and effect. For ever action there is a reaction. Every occurrence (energy reality) is created by a previous energy statement. Energy statements produce 'action'. The literal translation of the work 'karma' is 'action' or 'work'.

I know you could probably go out and buy a big fat book all about karma, but that simple paragraph gives me enough to work with.

Blessings,
James.

[SS_Patrick]

"my guess is that when people 'remember' things from a previous existence they are actually accessing memories from the earthly collective consciousness, thus scanning through sources they are more attuned to."

I don't think so. Same soul goes through various incarnations and memories come really from previous incarnations, not some collective consciousness. I don't want to mock your beliefs, but in my opinion evidence shows clearly, that memories come from same soul's previous incarnations.

(Following examples are from Stevenson's books, that I mentioned in my earlier post.)

For example, there are many documented and verified cases, where subject has birthmark or birth defect corresponding some injury etc. from previous life. Also, many subjects identify themselves very strongly with previous incarnation. It's hard to believe that vague memories from collective consciousness can cause these things. There are also few cases, where subject's racial attributes remain even though soul reborns to another race. And finally, in one case (that I have read, there could be more of these) subject remembered previous life of his relative, who during his life remembered previous life of his relative. Thus the case in question covers three incarnations of the same soul. Those people also had same birthmarks and same urinary disease.

Also, in 2 cases with tlingit indians, previous personality decided his parents for next life, and that next incarnation had memories of previous personality's life and also birthmarks corresponding to previous personality.

"Karma is the natural laws of cause and effect. For ever action there is a reaction."

I think that this is probable. Maybe there are some spiritual forces or laws etc, like gravity in earthly life, that affect things. It's one's personal choice, what names are used for them.

[scymitar72]

Hi all,

This may be a bit off topic, but I was wondering if anyone has any info on this.

Lately, I have been trying to do regression.  The two times I have tried, I have encountered serious internal resistance in the form of emotional response; anxiety/crying.

I have no problems with the visuals, I even see the things before the narration says to see them.  When I get close, however, I get all jammed up with anxiety and fear.

I wonder if this has to do with some painful past life memory that some part of me is not ready to process yet.  I am currently in process of Spirit Retrieval, so there are parts of me that are seriously underdeveloped and out of tune.

Anyway, any advice would be appreciated.

[Woah]

I'd like to bump this topic, because for me it's the most interesting one I've read on these forums. I agree with Patrick the most, but I also agree with what some others say. The stories of people's experiences could be just that. Stories. Patrick said the leaders of the groups who believe in collective consciousness are only interested in material wealth from their followers. The authors of these reincarnation books could be doing the same thing. I would need personal proof of anything before believing it, but I take all opinions into consideration.

This leads me to the belief that whatever you expect or maybe want (two distinct things) to happen will happen when your body dies. So, if someone believes they will reincarnate, they will. To them. If they believe in the birth marks and blood lines, that will happen for them. If they believe they'll group with other souls, maybe they will group with all of the souls who have believed that. If someone else believes they'll become non-existant, maybe they will. Or at least their awareness will become completely diminished, but their 'soul' will still exist. If someone believes they will go to 'heaven' or 'hell', they will. If someone believes they'll become a 'ghost', that will happen too. But I think all of these things will just be what their mind creates, they won't actually go to that location. Their 'soul' could be in an empty and vast storage place, and each person their will be in their own place in their mind. Everyone seperate, in my opinion. And I don't mean what the person thinks with their brain on earth, I mean what their 'higher self' believes, and is real to them.

[WANDERLEI]

I have one problem of understanding something when it comes to reincarnation.If let's say one soul reincarnates into many lifes on earth.Each life will be unique,will have its personality,character -it;s own id.If it is like the thread starter said we are all seprate and unique,then what will be that souls identity after so many lives.It seems as the body is used as  a "device" for some entity.When i die i wanna make sure that i am still ME,the person that lived here on earth.I do not wish to merge with the soul(the real me??) that had many different identities before,because this means that I(ME) will stop to exist.

[Domingess]

Why do you think so?

Your ID always be you

[Astir]

I don't think souls are exclusive to bloodlines. For me it is contradicted by the fact that my soul has such stronger ties to the eastern world...in both memory and philosophy. My ancestors originated in europe. As early as the age of 3 it was obvious to my parents that I had had a previous (and recent) incarnation in the far east. In fact, in the way I approached everything it was to them as if I had an inherent knowledge of buddhism, hinduism...and some highly peculiar form of animism...

Now, I have a very open mind. This bloodline theory, I have considered before. Especially in regard to DNA. So far we can only understand the functions and purpose of 3% of our DNA, the rest is referred to as "junk DNA" because no one knows what it is for. If it has no perceivable purpose, it may just be that it's purpose is imperceivable. I've always wondered if it was the mysterious formula that called each particular soul to each particular body. And if the soul is connected to its body's DNA, naturally it would seem that even bodiless souls in a bloodline would be related.

I've given thought to everything. But I always end up going along with what feels accurate (the only way I ever passed algebra, hooray for multiple choice ). What feels right to me is that we bounce around all over the face of the earth to obtain whatever experience we feel the need to obtain...but that we do either coordinate with other souls, or merely position ourselves to cross paths and end up near to them.

[Goober]

I believe in reincarnation in an odd way. ( I'm not saying I'm right, It's just a theory I have. )

  I think when people die, many are very anxious of what is about to happen next. Eternity is a long time, and by the teachings of most of the major religions of the world, if you don't believe in there religion, you will be sent to eternal damnation. That's quite a while, and I believe that makes people think about it quite a bit. An atheist is going to be terrified of the afterlife, while a Muslim might not think he did enough to please Allah, and so on...

  So, I believe many people choose to come back into this life again. To find spiritual enlightenment for the next time they die.


  I think I've been reincarnated many times, but given the choice, I don't think I'll do it again.

[WANDERLEI]

To those who are pro reincarnation and believe they have been reborn many times i ask the question.What will be your ID in the afterlife.Also when it comes to mediumship can you talk to the ghost of a person from a previous life that now their souls has reincarnated .I quess it would  mean that the soul could give birth to many incarnations each of them unique,but that would mean that those unique parts of the soul do not come back on earth because they ll always  will be its own idI quess it all depends how one defines what soul is,whether it is the real "us" or a part of "us".

[Domingess]

Ghost is only a soul reflection, nothing else.

[Goober]

To those who are pro reincarnation and believe they have been reborn many times i ask the question.What will be your ID in the afterlife.Also when it comes to mediumship can you talk to the ghost of a person from a previous life that now their souls has reincarnated .I quess it would  mean that the soul could give birth to many incarnations each of them unique,but that would mean that those unique parts of the soul do not come back on earth because they ll always  will be its own idI quess it all depends how one defines what soul is,whether it is the real "us" or a part of "us".

  My ID? I don't know what it will be.

  About the ghost from a previous life.. I believe, and I'm pretty sure most others here do as well, that we do not change spirits, only bodies. As in, I was the spirit I am now, in all of my past lives.

[WANDERLEI]

Going by your logic.The person that lives now and wrote that message(YOU) will no longer exist in the afterlife,since you will be your soul again-that had many incarnations.

[Domingess]

But in this moment i am a Soul too!!!

[Astir]

Going by your logic.The person that lives now and wrote that message(YOU) will no longer exist in the afterlife,since you will be your soul again-that had many incarnations.

Are you assuming he/she will care about losing their identity in this life? Of course a lot of people do, but on a message board like this I think you might find many more that are less attached to a sense of self I am fairly unattached and the only attachment I have is through the people who care about the me that I currently am. Sense of self has only seemed to become a necessary distortion in this world. It is something that many people feel they must desperately hold on to. But you can't assume that everyone needs to.

Personally I look forward to being a soul unfiltered by the state of living.

[WANDERLEI]

I do not assume that everybody needs to,i know i need to.Whether you re a soul or whateever you need some sort of ID no??Otherwise how s it different from not existing ??

[Novice]

Wanderlei-

Based on my experiences in the astral, I think we each have a unique feel -- be it color, vibration, whatever you want to describe it as. Every being has something unique about them. When I travel or visit someone or someplace in the astral, I do it based on how the person/place 'feels'.

Many people come here trying to make contact while OBE or AP with people they never met before. It is VERY hard to do that because unless you know what a person 'feels' like, you end up going to where ever or whomever feels like what you've been concentrating on.

My thought at present is that while in the physical, everyone is only projecting a part of their being or consciousness, so to speak. But their spirit, soul, light, whatever you want to term a person's true/core being, is always the same feeling. Hence, we all have unique ID's, as you put it, which can be contacted by anyone at anytime if they know how. And its more accurate than picking up a phone and dialing a number. I say this because you can dial a phone number and reach a destination, but someone else may answer the phone. Whereas in the astral, by focusing on the person's feel, you will be taken exactly to them each and every time (at least that's the way it works for me).