Soul progression

[Tayesin]

Quote by FQ:- "Everthing I've read over the past few years says that the purpose of incarnating in the physical world is for the evolution/development of the soul, in order that it can stop incarnating & reach the higher planes."

Almost all the information we can read about this subject comes from belief-systems of one form or another.  As such they are Man-Made, and therefore fallable, written from the Out of Date Perspective of Us as little souls here to learn at the School of Life on earth.

 This stems from the control-freak nature of every past Mystery School, Religion and Belief-System (wanting to be the One, True System).  Since these concepts have no relation to where We as a race of Beings is heading, they mostly don't apply NOW.  Now that everything is changing so rapidly here and around us.

"Does this mean that I/we all have thousands of lifetimes ahead of us and that the evolution of the soul is similar to biological evolution, i.e. one tiny improvement at a time? This is a really depressing thought, I don't want to come back here any more than I have to."

You are a perfect Soul already, so what is there to improve ?  See how those old concepts have tainted the way we think about this kind of subject ?  

Perhaps you might like to think about these different concepts...

You are a great and powerful Soul in your own right.  

We are already active in all the realms/levels/planes, only we are not Fully Aware that We Are.

You volunteered to come to Earth when she was ready to provide Life Experiences for you to Have.

Before coming here you already existed in other Life-Cycles on Other Worlds.

When finished your Series of Earth-Lifes (Ascension), you will again volunteer for many thousands of Other Experiences on offer as the Creative Awareness of this Universe (we can call it god)is developing more options and levels for Us to Provide the Experience of Itself.


All we need to do is Experience what the Life we Chose has to offer, be Mindful of the Choices we make, and Remember What and Who we really are, and what brought us to this point now.


The only way through your perceived concepts of having "sinned" is to go with it by Choice and you will find that the desire behind it will weaken and you will move through it when you are ready.  No point in stressing and worrying over what is an Experience You Chose to have this time.  So be Gentle with Your-Self.

Love Always. []

[James S]

Wow! GREAT answer Tayesin!!

I cannot add anything more descriptive than this, so I'll just add my support and agreement with what's been written here by Tayesin.

One thing that tayesing said bares repeating - we are already PERFECT souls that are chosing to experience life in all its myriad of ways.

Don't worry yourself about the lessons, don't worry yourself about what you feel you might be here to do or achieve, just experience life and be. It is through BEING, not doing, that we learn and grow, then we carry our experiences on with us when we move beyond the physical world.

Regards,
James.

[Tayesin]

Now I iz blushing [:I]  An us Ozzie blokes aren't sposed to blush, mate. [)]

[fuzzyquark]

Thanks for the response, that was pretty amazing stuff.  I have to admit though, I don't get it - how can I be a perfect soul?  Does this mean that it's purely the body that causes us to be so screwed up and selfish here?  What about somebody really evil like Adolf Hitler - somehow the idea of him being a "perfect soul" doesn't quite ring true.

If we're perfect already why do we bother going through all these trials and unpleasant experiences?  Why don't we all just float around in some heavenly plane somewhere?  Would we get bored doing that - is that why we come here - for the challenge?

Thanks
FQ.

[G3MM4]

Ok, I'm going to add my bit here. We are perfect souls, but we also feel the need to learn. We pick our own life experiences etc before we are born. The thing that makes you "sin" and all the rest of it is your EGO! Spirits are free of the ego, ego is given to us when we become mortal, i.e. when we are born.

That's just how I view it anyway.

[Tayesin]

Quote:-
"..how can I be a perfect soul? Does this mean that it's purely the body that causes us to be so screwed up and selfish here? What about somebody really evil like Adolf Hitler - somehow the idea of him being a "perfect soul" doesn't quite ring true.

If we're perfect already why do we bother going through all these trials and unpleasant experiences? Why don't we all just float around in some heavenly plane somewhere? Would we get bored doing that - is that why we come here - for the challenge?"


Last question first... We bother because we are powerful beings desiring Experience (and it's Challenge)of every kind, experiencing Ourselves and our abilities as we go.  We do this to supply the universe/creator/god with experience of Itself.  It's a perfect relationship don't you think ?

The first paragraph has two main answers that are dependant on one thing.  Choices.

Adolf Hitler was an incarnated Soul, just like the rest of us.  He had contracts to supply certain experiences that were made in the higher astral realms..  all the people's deaths he was responsible for were also Souls incarnating here with contracts to be a part of the Experiences. And the universe/creator/god thing supplied the means for the contracts to be fulfilled.

So how is any of that Evil ?  If what we can call god supplied whatever was necessary to conclude those experiences, it can't possibly be evil !  Oh, and if god didn't supply all things necessary for those events to occur, they could not have happened

The body is only your great little car you move around in while you are experiencing Here.  It can't make you do anything, you are it's master.  

This leaves us with our Choices.  We all have a common understanding of what is expected in our cultures, and most of us go along with them.  Others do not.  The choice doesn't make them evil, it makes them a chooser.

So now we are left with asking, where does the concept of evil come into the whole picture ?  We created the concept of evil when we chose to have a series of incarnations in this layer of reality/experience that is working 'Duality'.  Good versus evil stuff.  We needed it to function in this duality layer.

Now we are back to our Choices again !  People may think it is okay to do whatever they want, and they can.  But we have Laws and social understanding/expectations.  Choices.  All of it is Choice relevant.

Love Always. []

[fuzzyquark]

Thanks.

IIRC in the "Conversations with God" series (haven't read them yet but I've heard about them) - a lot of people got upset by the fact that "God" says that Hitler ended up in the same "place" as everyone else - people were expecting him to have been sent to hell or something.  That's a good fit with what you have said, and I can't imagine Mr Walsch making something like that up.

Cheers
FQ.

[RJA]

Many of these same concepts are present in the major religions, but unfortunately they are more or less ignored and the more dogmatic teachings are the ones that get center stage.

Christian mystics would say that the creation story in the Bible is a symbolic representation of the soul entering into a physical existence characterized by misunderstanding - i.e. duality - i.e. knowledge of good and evil.  Likewise the story of the Jewish nation in the old testament and the life of Christ in the New Testament can be seen as a symbolic representation of the evolution of the soul (both individually and collectively) to where it overcomes the illusion of this physical world and of duality to once again be united with the God, the Ground of all being, the Universe, or whatever you want to call it.

Similar interpretations of Buddhism, Hinduism, Islam, etc. arrive at very similar understandings using different terminology.  

Sometimes this process is described as a journey, other times as a purification and internal transformation, other times as shedding one's ego, burning off one's bad Karma, and this same process is described by various religions, philosophies, schools of psychological thought (Jungian, mostly), ritualistic Magik, Alchemy and probably a gazillion other paths I haven't heard of.

Furthermore, each path seems to have different methods by which this transformation occurs.  The Sufi (mystical branch of Islam) mystic and poet, Rumi experienced this transformation by extended periods of time gazing (meditation of sorts) into the eyes of a wandering mystic and teacher (Shams-i-Trabiz).  Carl Jung describes how the process occurs by self-examination engaging and reintegrating the contents of the unconscious via rigorous self-examination.  Buddhist and Christian monks get there via meditation.

And of course, in any particular religion it seems that 99.9% of the adherents have no knowledge of this process at all (which is why Christ described it as the narrow path).

[RJA]

When I was a kid we had those sculpting kits where you buy a hunk of plaster.  Inside there is a figure and as you chip away with a little hammer and chisel all of the excess falls away - and hooray - a five-year-old has just sculpted a work of art.

We are like that.  We are perfect souls, hidden by a lot of excess plaster in the form of guilt, hangups, misunderstandings, etc.  As we progress along the spiritual path we slowly chip away all of that junk until we eventually arrive at what was there all along, but we just couldn't recognize.

Toward this end, if you a Christian please note that the Greek word in the New Testament that is translated as "sin" is the word that Greeks used when an archer missed the target.  It really means missing the mark.  Unfortunately, the concept of sin as a moral affront to God is deeply embedded in the Judeo-Christian psyche so that is how it is preached and how we think of it.

I stronly recommend all Christians, when reading the Bible to replace the concept of "moral failure" with the concept of "a misunderstanding" every time you read the word "sin", - and especially when you discuss or think of "sin".  This alone, over a period of time will chip off a lot of that gunk that is hiding the perfect soul (the Christ or Holy Spirit) inside of you.

When you begin to read the New Testament this way you see other parts of it in much more enlightening ways also.  I would strongly urge you to search for Christian Mysticism on the web and begin reading.  A good book would also be Jim Marion's "Putting on the Mind of Christ".  Warning though - to a traditional Christian it will come across as heresy, but that's the nature of any religious thought that attempts to disrupt the status quo.

[fuzzyquark]

Thanks both of you, your posts were most helpful

[Tayesin]

RJA,
Excellent posts, I really enjoyed them.

While not a christian, nor any other belief-system adherent, I think the bible is read best with a small key.  My old teacher said,"When you know the Key, you will see clearly and understand then."  

I found that coming to the words of Jesus, by Thomas in the Nag Hammadi Library, without any preconceived notions of what it should or would mean, enabled me to see the simplicity and clarity in the words.  In essence, his messages were simple, We are equal in the creator's eyes, and we are all Powerful beings too. The rest is sound advice for living a peaceful life on this planet.

Love Always. []

[jilola]

I'd add this to the discussion: We incarnate to learn that we don't have to incarnate.

What the physical aspect gives is a perspective to our real selves and allows us to see that we are complete to begin with. Much like never seeing the sights of our home town and only appreciating them after we've been away.

The development of the soul is only the perception of becoming more aware of one's true reality.

2cents & L&L
Jouni

[fuzzyquark]

Hi all,

Everthing I've read over the past few years says that the purpose of incarnating in the physical world is for the evolution/development of the soul, in order that it can stop incarnating & reach the higher planes.

However, I certainly don't detect much improvement in myself over the years, I still seem to have most of the faults I have always had.  In fact if I used Christian terminology I would say that I struggle with "sin", or selfishness, whatever you want to call it.  Looking at most other people around me this pattern seems to be repeated - there are a few people I know who could be described as "saints" but hardly any - most people seem to be first & foremost out for themselves.

Does this mean that I/we all have thousands of lifetimes ahead of us and that the evolution of the soul is similar to biological evolution, i.e. one tiny improvement at a time?  This is a really depressing thought, I don't want to come back here any more than I have to. []

I'd be interested to hear any other opinions on this.

Thanks
FQ.