Meditation and Trance

[bitsmart]

Meditation is the practice of quieting your mind and just simply 'being.' One meditating you can use this clear, quiet awareness to do other things, like ponder...

Trance states are physiological states of mind that are like your mind being awake while your body sleeps. Your brainwaves slow down and things become extremely clear and focused. It is this state that is sort of like self-hypnosis, but not exactly. I think self-hypnosis is possible from this state.

Hypnosis is a state of deep sleep/a trance where the subconscious mind is open to suggestion. Self-hypnosis is this kind of state that is self-induced through several methods.

These are all different but related things.

bitsmart -
information illumination -
bitsmart@bitsmart.org -

[DjMidgetMan]

Thanks for your feedback.... I read about hypnosis a long time ago, and I used to hypnotize kids, but I never really understood the idea till now.... I only cared about practicality of it back then.... lol

P.S. Everything that has to do with the mind has interested me ever since I remember... So dont be surprised when I said I used to hypnotize....

DjMidgetMan
  "Mind over Matter"

[Bhikku]

You would know the difference if you meditated and could get into the trance state. The trance is more like a warm fuzzy feeling washing over you in waves, almost making you loose conciousness. Meditating can lead to this, but is more about clearing all thoughts from your head, like mentioned by bitsmart earlier.

"Look within, thou art the Budda"

[Shirley]

Wow DjMidgetman   what a great question!!
http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/images/icon_Smile_cool.gif" border=0>
I hope as many people as possible will contribute to this because I have found when teaching that when I ask a question, everyone's response is relevant and contributes to a really holistic and wholesome reply ...

What is meditation? What is trance?  I do hope Robert will look in and help us out because I am quite sure he will be able to give a really direct and practical answer. However, since he is up to his eyes, contributions from us all mayhave to suffice - and  provide a convoluted definition....

I think meditation, trance and hynosis et al. are all altered states of awareness and everyone has different capacities, that can be improved with discipline as well as natural aptitude, to be able to access these altered states of awareness. Even so they are, I believe, pretty uniquely subjective  - ie., each individual will experience these uniquely each time they exercise any of these practices. Deeper 'altered states' are what I would call trance - although light trance is a description of the least deep on the 'trance spectrum'.  In many ways they overlap and are considered synonymous - in some circumstances -  since they are all 'altered states' - and depth - within some definitions - are possibly their only difference.

Neuroscientifically speaking,  there will in the future possibly be a more accurate  and objective definition between these states since research with the MRI  (Magnetic Resonance Imaging) on long-term meditators (those who have meditated for thrity years or more) in laboratory conditions show that not only do parts of the brain 'switch off' during medititation - but also other areas 'light up'.  This is fascinating and may provide a purer, objective definition in time. At the moment we are reliant on totally subjective feedback. Both objective and subjective definitions are relevant however - depending on the integrity of those who define.

So you see, I can't tell you the difference - but just wanted to point out that things are not always so 'black and white' - however much we would like them to be.  Oe way of defining may be by defining the 'outcome' or intention' . When  there is  an outcome or intention - as with hypnosis - then the mind isn't experiencing pure 'beingness' - but using the state of stillness to do something. Deep trance states  may possibly also access 'beingness' in other states of reality from what we deem to be our normal 'state of reality' (whatever that means) -  that is in addition to an altered state of awareness.....I s anyone following this   ?


Neurologically, one can expect (possibly)  the latter two states (hynosis and deep trance) to display more activity on an MRI machine than pure meditative states. However at a deep level, this heightened state of awareness or 'beingness' is possibly considered 'deep trance' by many....

This is a great question - I hope someone can offer you a simpler answer...:-)The more I delve,  the less I realize I know...
Sorry to confuse you but I think that it is important to realize that sometimes there are many considerations ... however, as I mentioned before, I am sure Robert could cut through the flack ...


With love,
Shirley

[Joe]

Hey DJMidgetMan - here's my 2 bob as a novice http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/images/icon_Smile.gif" border=0> - I practice meditation as stilling the mind, whereas other equally good practices are mental/emotional contemplation on a given subject. If you take meditation to be quitening the mind, it often does lead to trance, which is just a reduction of brainwave activity, from Beta through to Delta. Trance does feel very odd though - feels like the body is very light, your arms/legs feel much fatter and kind of hollow, you are more disconnected from sensations of touch and general body awarness, and the type of thoughts you have are less coherent in the everday sense. I can only achieve mild trance so far, but find it more pleasurable to be in that state than virtually any other mode of thinking. You feel so much closer to yourself, and you experience your subconscious thoughts a lot more readily - sometimes quite startling to see how it makes sense of everything. In comparison, waking perception feels very external, like you're away from yourself. I can only get good trance state maybe once very two or three times I try, but things like brainwave entrainment CDs, etc can help a lot.

Wish you the best of practice, mate http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/images/icon_Smile.gif" border=0> and I too hope RB drops in with some info - I can only imagine what deep trance is like!!

[bitsmart]

In response to Shirley's wonderfully verbose post, I agree that these states of mind are never as cut and dry as some people my think or say. There is much overlapping and many different gradients and spectrums of states of consciousness. Our names for them aren't nearly as reliable as direct experience with being able to notice change in our state of mind.

Since I posted my piece of this thread, I'm now reading a book called "Monsters and Magical Sticks...or There's No Such Thing As Hypnosis." Very interesting book, it was written by a clinical hypnotherapist, so don't take the title so literally. Get a copy of this book if you can.

bitsmart -
information illumination -
bitsmart@bitsmart.org -

[jsoper]

I find I can meditate in a lot of different situations... tonight, for instance, my friend was pulled over by the police for speeding, so I meditated while he ran his license... I also meditate on the bus or even while I'm walking through the park...  

the difference I see between this and trance is that it takes a certain environment for me to reach trance.  I usually have to have some incense, as a trigger, and a quiet, warm place where nothing will interrupt me...

I believe the difference is simply the level of trance you reach.  everyday meditation seems to be just the very light trance state...

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jonathan.soper
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[DjMidgetMan]

Are meditation and inducing a trance the same thing??? Are Self hypnosis and meditation the same thing??? If so, why do they seperate them from each other??

DjMidgetMan
  "Mind over Matter"