The Bible

Tayesin · August 04, 2003, 00:03:33

Hi Malvina, yes it has been changed, I prefer to say it has been heavily revised and edited.

It first started with John, Jesus' brother, who had quite a few problems with the way the Disciples interpreted his brothers words and meanings. We know that John was pushed out for his views, so that the small band of disciples could build their'church' without any further obstructions or someone saying, "Hay, that's not what he meant."

After that, the changes to interpretations came thick and fast. At the Council of Nicea in around 330(ad) the Roman Emperor Constantine was the one person who told his religious counsellors what they would believe and what then would be included in the 'Book'.

And the rest is history. If you want to research for yourself there are vast amounts of historical evidence to prove that it has always been altered to suit the powerful individual and the Churches need for control and power. And all of it was mainly done to the new testament, so we would not know what Jesus was getting at, and so the church could lie to keep us down.

Hope this was a good place to start.

Love always.

TorosDead · August 04, 2003, 01:18:25

The changing of the bible is directly related to the medieval (dark) ages. In this time priests were the only people allowed to read and preach the bible, and at that time the culture was much different. For instance there were origionally many passages about women in the bible, but at the time women were thought to be vastly inferior and anything that the priests didn't like they could take out and preach as doctrine. You can see the changes in the bible because there is more than one version. The changes are mostly subtle, but they are there. Each religion uses a different bible that suits what they believe, and if you were to compare each word from one bible to another you would see that they are different. This is why many religions can use their bible in arguing about anothers religion.

Allanon · August 21, 2003, 16:26:09

Don't listen to the serpents on this board. Jesus Christ is Lord and all will confess one way or the other to His reign over all creation.

Absolute Truth means that something is true and always is true no matter what. A perfect God manufactured the Bible and no matter what "evidence" the serpents spit at you it remains that God's Word is infallible and True in all regards.

All this astral projection crap is just a way to open your mind to demonic influences. Pray hard that Jesus will save you from the sins of the world and I GURANTEE you that you will thank me later.

All it takes is one genuine moment to absolutely let go of yourself to Christ and beleive in His physical ressurection. That is all it takes for eternal life.

Don;t be fooled by the serpent and his crafty followers.

shadowatcher · August 21, 2003, 16:44:46

God is real. The bible is created to enslave people. Religion is one of the many downfalls of humanity. Prayer should be done silently by yourself. It is something between you and god. Not you, some old guy in robes, and god.

no_leaf_clover · August 21, 2003, 17:21:22

Allanon, do you think that's something none of us have heard before? You might get a little farther by doing something other than flat-out Bible-thumping preaching. The Bible never says a THING about astral projections or even higher realms, and it sounds like some biblical characters even make reference to projection by talking more or less about visiting 'God' while out of body, and the Bible has been in the hands of many, many men, who are not 'God', but your average mortal men. Sounds to me like you're just going off what the you've heard from the church without thinking it through, either through ignorance or fear of 'God' most likely.

kromeknight · August 21, 2003, 17:51:44

Well said Shadowatcher
The practises of the children of Israel before Christs birth were religious repetitive none productive but it served it's purpose until Christ. ie washing your hands before a meal.. good advice from God but made into a religious act my man.
God was frustrated with the continual misinterpretation man put into his guidance. Mans mind couldn't comprehend Gods simple guidance and freedom if abiding within God.They as todays ppl are stiff necked needing to make rules for themselfs and bind themself in dogmna egnoring Gods true purpose in life.
Jesus was scolled by religious fanatics like Allanon. IMO Christ was trying to free the people from religion how ironic ppl now use his words to ensnare others under the same religious repetitive none productive ways of old.
For thoughs that have ears to hear let them hear .....for you religious fanatics you have your way I'm not here to change your rules. I will not be made subject to them I am free in Christ.
Take care All

kromeknight · August 21, 2003, 18:18:08

Ps One more thing we create our own prison cell and even appoint our wardens, but we have the key of freedom in our pocket who will use it ?
Allanon you have strange bunk buddys mate good luck

shadowatcher · August 21, 2003, 20:47:26

The closer we get to the truth the harder it is to see.

James S · August 21, 2003, 20:48:45

Beautifully said Krome!

Malvina,

For my two cents worth here, if there is anything in the Bible that can be considered of great value it's the words and teachings of Jesus HIMSELF, not all the rules and regulations as interpreted by Paul (lets face it, he was a lawyer - they never change).

Whoever you actually believe him to be, Jesus was without a doubt one of the wisest and most insightful people to have walked this earth. His messages were straight forward and practical, and did not need to be embellished at all as was done in the rest of the New Testement that followed.

James.

shadowatcher · August 21, 2003, 20:59:35

The bible is the devil. Period.

Allanon · August 22, 2003, 01:31:01

You guys anre missing the point. All the astral projection and relativistic thinking in the world is not going to free your soul from this prison. Astral projection is a way to allow demonic influences in to deceive you into not beleiving the objective nature of the Bible.

Jesus Christ is the Son of God and only when you put Him before yourself are you free from the law.

If you plan on opening your mind like that I would be sure that I was freed from the law first because God scorns those who commune with false spirits.

WalkingThePath · August 22, 2003, 03:36:39

Hey

Thanks for ALL the replies here

I am a born- Christian, but somehow what people told me about my religion and Jesus, felt "wrong". Now i know.
I feel love and admiration for Jesus, who died for what he believed in, for managing to "change" the system. Unfortunately, it seems, his name and words were manipulated from people who wnated to make the best of a situation or weren't ready to understand or accept his words.

I don't believe Jesus' plan was to create a "religion", to plant the fear of God, Sin and Devil in peoples' hearts, but rather to give them "freedom" from the paradigm of those days.
It is sad how things turned out.

Malvina

clandestino · August 22, 2003, 03:36:59

quote:
God is real. The bible is created to enslave people. Religion is one of the many downfalls of humanity. Prayer should be done silently by yourself. It is something between you and god. Not you, some old guy in robes, and god.

Nice one shadowatcher !!

ever thought of starting your own religion ? hee hee....

WalkerInTheWoods · August 22, 2003, 04:53:35

quote:
Originally posted by WalkingThePath

I was just wondering, everybody it seems here, says that the Bible has been changed. Do we have evidence for this? And to what degree was it changed? And by who?

Let us use reason. Man has been given free will, so he can do as he wishes. There was never a complete book in the beginning. The Bible we have today is a collection of writings by men inspired by God, it did not just fall out of the sky from the divine. These writings were done by many people over the course of centuries. Some were written many years after the fact. These writings have passed through many political hands in the course of the centuries as they have been brought together. Now using reason, how many would trust a politician? How many think that politicians do not lie and cheat to secure their power? Look at most of the politicians today, honesty take a look. Things have not changed that much in the political field. Since man has free will he has the free will to change whatever he wishes. So based on reason does it not seem likely that a politician would given the chance change documents to aid his power, especially if he did not believe in these documents? Use your own reasoning and make your decision.

If you want the proof, you might have to do a search. I know that there are several posts about this where people have given proof about changes in the Bible. Or maybe they will post it in here again.

Allanon, your Bible states that the laws of God are written on the hearts of all men. God and his laws are within us, all of us. So by meditating and looking within, which is encouraged and practiced here, one will find truth. Your Bible says so. One does not have to read anything to know the truth, for it is within all of us. We only have to look.
Seek and you shall find. This is also in your Bible. It is said that if you look for God you shall find him. That is what astral projection is about, seeking truth. So how is it wrong to leave our bodies and go to the realms of spirit seeking truth? Is God not in the all the realms? If so why would he let someone seeking truth not find him but instead find demons?

Allanon · August 22, 2003, 14:58:15

quote:
Let us use reason. Man has been given free will, so he can do as he wishes. There was never a complete book in the beginning. The Bible we have today is a collection of writings by men inspired by God, it did not just fall out of the sky from the divine. These writings were done by many people over the course of centuries. Some were written many years after the fact. These writings have passed through many political hands in the course of the centuries as they have been brought together. Now using reason, how many would trust a politician? How many think that politicians do not lie and cheat to secure their power?

God is not a deceiver and would never allow the serpents to tinkle on His book like you imply.

THE BIBLE IS, WAS, AND ALWAYS WILL BE THE TRUTH. PERIOD.

shadowatcher · August 22, 2003, 16:01:42

You just trapped yourself buddy:

You say that everything in the bible is true, and in the bible god says that we have free will. But if god prevents us from tinkling on his book, he takes away our free will...So which is it?

Allanon · August 22, 2003, 16:58:09

You can CHOOSE to tinkle on the True Word of God all you want but the EFFECT of God's unchangeable Word's being warped will not be the case. Ever.

Jesus is the Word incarnate and you can CHOOSE to reject Him but He is the Alpha and Omega. The beginning and the end. The EFFECT of your choosing not to be part of Him makes little difference on the unalterable character of God and His Word.

LA FORET MAUVE · August 22, 2003, 20:27:53

Question: how can we say that something is unalterable ?
Please answer and don't hide behind your JESUS-LORD-TRUTH-MUST-SATAN and all this nonsense preaching...
You are puting(sadly) a shame on the christians that use to post here...

no_leaf_clover · August 22, 2003, 20:29:51

Why would God create people to live an extremely short amount of time just to send them to Heaven or Hell based on whether or not the people believe in him? That just seems... wrong.

LA FORET MAUVE · August 22, 2003, 20:49:29

innit !

shadowatcher · August 22, 2003, 23:50:50

I dont get it...If I made a copy of the book "Astral Dynamics", and sold it as "The Holy Bible". Wouldnt I be changing the word of god?

Tab · August 22, 2003, 23:57:01

Look, this is stupid. It's proven FACT the bible was manipulated and mistranslated. Go learn hebrew. You'll find there is no word for 'eternity', the word used in the bible that was translated as such means nothing but 'a long period of time'. So that eternal death is really just death for a while bub.
Get your facts straight and then you can preach. That's my philosophy.

Gandalf · August 23, 2003, 06:04:39

Tab_
You're right! The greek word used is 'aeon' which has variable meanings (usually 1000 years) but certainly *always* a fininte amount of time.
We might think this is a simple mistake in translation but the word 'aeon' has been correctly translated in other passages with different context and its proper meaning is preserved.
Just one example of a small change with huge implications for christian teaching.

Constantine's Nicea conference was hugely influential and he had a huge personal influence on later christian teaching. It was at this conference that reincarnation was ruled out as being incompatible with christian belief and it was also decided (by vote!) that Christ was 'god' rather than a prophet, a dispute which had raged for some time.
Leading up to this period, the feminine aspects of christianity were finally excised, leaving us with a firmly patriarchal religion.
Originally, there was an 'earthly mother' residing on earth, in partnership with the 'heavenly father' who resided in the heavens.

Interestingly, in the dead sea scrolls, we see a much earlier formulation of the holy trinity which is made up of the Mother, the Father and the Son. This has been changed as you can see. The prayer to the earthly mother has also been completely removed from the Lord's prayer, leaving us with the firmly patriarchal prayer we are all familiar with.
Interestingly, the original notion of the dual aspects of heavenly father and earthly mother are close to modern Wiccan thought. In fact the earthly mother is a throwback to an ancient pre-christian universal belief in an earthmother type godess, worshipped in most ancient societies.
It can be argued that this belief is so inbuilt that it resurfaced in christianity with the worship of Mary in catholic belief = she is really a watered down version of the archytypal mother goddess.

With regards to particular details of the New testement. Most of the actual details were already common features of pagan mythology.
The Greek god Dionosyus AND the persian god Zoaroaster (not sure if spelling is correct with that one!) all had common elements that later made up the christian story.

eg, Dionosyus and Zoraoster were both 'god men' who traveled the land performing miricles and healing the sick. They were all born via an 'imaculate conception', a fairly common feature of classical religion; Apollo and Zeus were always having it off with mortal women!
Both were attended at birth by shepherds and wise men!
Both had a 'last supper' before being betrayed.

We might then ask why such common pagan elements were used in the gospels.
Well, in order for the new cult/religion to appeal to the populace at the time, it had to include common pagan elements that would appeal to people, otherwise it would never be accepted. Thus all the miracle working, etc was included. All the above themes are common themes found in classical mythology and religion, Read Ovid to check out some of these common themes (you will also find the little talked about Roman god Lucifer there, in his pre-christian guise as the Morning star, or 'light bearer' nothing to do with any conceptions of Satan; later christians just borrowed his name!).

BTW I am not saying that there was no historical figure called christ, what I am saying is that much of the information contained about him in the bible was already a pre-exising factor of pagan religion. In this way, christianity is a true heir of pagan beliefs and not its great enemy as many fundamentalists would have you believe!

Regards,
Douglas

Tab · August 23, 2003, 07:19:38

Thank you for that post Gandalf, it was some great insight.

quote:
Originally posted by Gandalf

Tab_
You're right! The greek word used is 'aeon' which has variable meanings (usually 1000 years) but certainly *always* a fininte amount of time.
We might think this is a simple mistake in translation but the word 'aeon' has been correctly translated in other passages with different context and its proper meaning is preserved.
Just one example of a small change with huge implications for christian teaching.

Greek too! Interesting. I was referring to a quote from Isis Unveiled;

"the word "eternal" by which our theologians interpret the words "for ever and ever" does not exist in the Hebrew language, either as a word or meaning. There is no Hebrew word which properly expresses eternity; oulam, according to Le Clerc, only imports a time whose beginning or end is not known. While showing that this word does not mean infinite duration, and that in the Old Testament the word forever only signifies a long time, Archbishop Tillotson has completely perverted its sense with respect to the idea of hell-torments."

http://www.theosociety.org/pasadena/isis/iu2-01.htm

quote:
Originally posted by Gandalf

Interestingly, in the dead sea scrolls, we see a much earlier formulation of the holy trinity which is made up of the Mother, the Father and the Son.

It's been a long while since I picked up The Secret Doctrine, but IIRC the mother-father-son goes as far back as the esoteric vedic teachings revealed in that book. Such teachings were closely tied to the chaldean and hebrew kabalas, so it's not surprising to see it pop up somewhere like the dead sea scrolls.

Al just has very little grip on reality, tis all. If the devil made it so that all historical fact proves that christianity is mostly corruptions of other beliefs, then.. well.. that sounds more like the mother of all cop-outs, and is obviously BS. OMFG ALL OF HISTRY IS A LIE FROM TEHDEVIL!!1oneone
Sure dude, sure. And they say us projectors are mental.

Allanon · August 23, 2003, 19:44:19

quote:
Question: how can we say that something is unalterable ?

You can beleive the world and what you perceive through your senses or you can beleive the Perfect Word of God. God is Perfect and thus His words cannot be changed.

The tribulation is coming where those that are dead in Christ shall reign. Those that reject His Word shall reap their reward as well.

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