I try to explain best i can, "I" as a physical consciousness interpreting everything through language :lol:
I can only take this egoistic perspective so not very fond of what i'm doing now, but maybe i can shed some light and help others giving my perspective on things.
Most of the time i have this blank mind thing going on that has creeped on me trough years and my take towards life has chanced continually, i had my moments of divine no doubt but it never chanced me much and kinda forgot them.
In the past i used to daydream at every opportunity, you could take this as giving up on physical and letting subconsciousness roam free, today i feel like my subconsciousness is giving up too as these daydreams have quieted down to the point i just am. My surroundings are like watery reflection, i see more clearly when i interact less with it, i observe more than anything, have no opinions and let everyone else direct situations, friends say i wont talk much, but when i do it makes people silent and thoughful, there's truth in that, only say anything when it has meaning and purpose for the situation or when it makes people feel good and happy :) I also feel most of my thoughs aren't from me or that i even can understand them fully, they lose meaning and purity when i start to think. I love life and people, it doesn't matter how bad of a situation or how seemingly rotten someone is, i see WHY it is how it is and there's always purity and love at the source of things. I also feel i have no need to be here anymore, but i'm happy nevertheless, life here is interesting, but when my physical body runs it's coarse i'm not coming back here i feel.
How i understand this is that human consciousness has layers that need to give up and quiet down for higher self to be heard more clearly and this does not happen suddenly as to say you experience enlightenment, nor is there point where you can say you are enlightened, these are all egoistic goals.
There's so much i want to share now that i'm on it, but there's truly nothing more to say that can help anyone on they'r quest.
When you give up and forget where you want to be, you will get there. :roll:
i don't know but it's been said, you do or don't and then ya dead..
Well said indeed, but don't worry about it me, i enjoy life best i can :)
I always get suspicious of people who claim to be 'enlightened', too.
There is an internal contradiction for me in the statement because claiming such a thing is 'so Ego' for me.
Thus you cannot really be enlightened with such a statement, can you?
Maybe enlightened people (I assume there are a few down here on Earth) can be better detected by their WAY OF BEING and actions instead of by their mere words.
"He who stands on tiptoe is not steady.
He who strides cannot maintain the pace.
He who makes a show is not enlightened.
He who is self-righteous is not respected.
He who boasts achieves nothing.
He who brags will not endure.
According to followers of the Tao,
"These are extra food and unnecessary luggage."
They do not bring happiness.
Therefore followers of the Tao avoid them."
- Tao te ching -
You never hear from people who are truly "enlightened" :lol:
I have long ways to go like everyone of us, there are some people surely who takes my post as a claim of something, it was never intended to be that way, i'm ashamed.
Words ring hollow, art is only way of true self expression.
Shame would not be appropriate, you did no wrong.
What do you consider 'enlightenment' to be?
Quote from: CFTraveler on October 10, 2011, 11:53:10
What do you consider 'enlightenment' to be?
This was going to be my response... how can you say a highly interpretive concept doesn't exist without first defining it? Also, how can you determine people aren't enlightened based on a presumed criteria? I'm not taking a strong stance on the topic, just food for thought.
I understand your concerns, do you think enlightenment could be overvalued?
what i try to speak of is...
Something that loses it's meaning when given a name.
Something you can't find by searching.
One who has archived it does not need to make himself known nor does he want the attention it would bring.
If one believes to be enlightened, then he/she is not.
Ofc you can tell i'm not talking about entirely the same enlightenment as it's usually understood.
Maybe this would be something more.
Just something to think about :)
I truly can't put it to words.
Or could this be the most elaborate trap ego can create to ensure it's dominance?
Quote from: Homesick on October 10, 2011, 12:56:55
I understand your concerns, do you think enlightenment could be overvalued?
what i try to speak of is...
Something that loses it's meaning when given a name.
Something you can't find by searching.
I agree that as concepts become more abstract, language struggles to capture them for communication purposes, and are therefore subject to certain corruption/interpretation. I believe that's a built in aspect of this birth/death reality... the concepts that one needs to experience to be spiritually successful are the ones that can't be communicated. We must find our own way in that regard.
Quote from: Homesick on October 10, 2011, 12:56:55One who has archived it does not need to make himself known nor does he want the attention it would bring.
If one believes to be enlightened, then he/she is not.
I'm not sure I'm on board with this one. I mean, assume someone is enlightened... not subject for debate. Will the thought "I am enlightened" negate the enlightened state or adulterate the knowledge he came upon? Would any negative action he takes produce a similar effect? If it did, would that mean an enlightened individual is bound, knowingly or otherwise, to a certain set of behaviors?
Quote from: Homesick on October 10, 2011, 12:56:55Or could this be the most elaborate trap ego can create to ensure it's dominance?
A trap, or maybe the last hurdle. :wink:
Quote from: Astral316 on October 10, 2011, 13:29:31
I'm not sure I'm on board with this one. I mean, assume someone is enlightened... not subject for debate. Will the thought "I am enlightened" negate the enlightened state or adulterate the knowledge he came upon? Would any negative action he takes produce a similar effect? If it did, would that mean an enlightened individual is bound, knowingly or otherwise, to a certain set of behaviors?
Does the knowledge of enlightenment matter for someone who has achieved it or does the deeper knowledge of it even surface trough ego? Even more so trough words.
- removed part -
Hi,
As theres no concrete definition of an enlightened state then saying it would make me feel ill is a misnomer. Should you say being filthy rich (cash) makes you feel ill then youve earned much respect from the enlightened.
Think on this it could enlighten you....
words as above have meaning but fail to supply an accurate definition. The ill feeling should come from the average persons reaction to being filthy rich. However the average person is not enlightened (based on our interpretation of its questionable meaning).
Then there now exists that question, what is enlightenment in a person?
It may be a state or frame of mindset where constructive progress can be achieved within a social system in order to achieve their maximum cooperation in totality of wellbeing etc. but where we are as a race of humans this ego and greed thing will prevent its being.
The meek shall inherit the earth, does this statement have a hidden agenda?
I can only hope so for our future may depend on it.
food for thought.
I'm really sorry Szaxx i couldn't leave that thought there as it was not productive at all, i was hoping no one would comment on it but you did. But your right.
I'm way... way too confused now. Original topic makes no sense anymore. It's no good to analyze these things as they'r not meant to.
QuoteSomething that loses it's meaning when given a name.
Something you can't find by searching.
Ah! Ok.
I think it's possible to experience, but not to achieve or to even realize.
Maybe this can be described as 'transcendence'? By definition it can't be defined, but we can still think of it in terms of understanding. I think.
:-D
Oh, transcendence, how did i not thought of that :)
There are times when we lose sight of things, speak without thinking or think without our heart in to it.
Everything is a learning experience so it's all good and this was best of them :lol:
Enjoy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R69o3Se_0og&feature=related
Hi,
Its one of those rhetoric questions.
Or simply put, you dont need to know the chemical changes within a combustion chamber to drive a car. You only need to know what type of fuel to use
much better......
"The Heart Sutra says that in truth there is no suffering and no enlightenment and this is also seen in the Diamond Sutra. Paradoxically, this truth is itself part of the enlightenment experience.
It has been claimed that Enlightenment cannot be described in language, expression or communication of any form."
From all knowing and all powerful... Wikipedia :lol:
Some would say a person wouldn't change at all after being enlightened, they would just have a true perspective of what was always there.
Zen proverb: "Before enlightenment; chop wood, carry water. After enlightenment; chop wood, carry water."
Quote from: Homesick on October 10, 2011, 12:56:55
Something that loses it's meaning when given a name.
Something you can't find by searching.
First sentence it can be true, because all words fall short of it, but second definetly not. Maybe the first "steps" are unvoluntary, but the "last" (not the right word, the "first" would be better, as in the sense of the other being all simple "glimpses" before this one and it's the "first" because there are many others after, but in this case I used the term because there are some experiences before that are part of it, but they are not the full thing, and these are usually involuntary and just a side issue of practices/whatever) it is definitely a voluntary achievement.
Quote from: Homesick on October 10, 2011, 12:56:55
One who has archived it does not need to make himself known nor does he want the attention it would bring.
It depends on the Will of the achiever. No person is the same. There are those who their True Will require no attention, others that require that attention to do something specific.
Quote from: Homesick on October 10, 2011, 12:56:55
If one believes to be enlightened, then he/she is not.
It's not a matter of "believing". The experience called "enlightment" (the term is a Buddhistic term, the first "stage" is coming in contact in *full* with the Atman - to use again Buddhistic terms) is so unique as that if "you think you have had it" or similar then it means you have not had it. The experience is so strong as that what you can call "your life", or what you can call "your reality", seems a confused dream in comparision. Words cannot explain it, many people have tried and tried only with the result of making others misundestood them completely.
Namely, you know when you've had it, there's no matter of uncertainity about it.
Quote from: Homesick on October 10, 2011, 12:56:55
Ofc you can tell i'm not talking about entirely the same enlightenment as it's usually understood.
"Enlightment" it's a Buddhistic term. It has various "stages". The first has been called Samadhi (Union with God) in its basic form, K&C with the Holy Guardian Angel, the descent of the Holy Ghost, Christic Consciousness, Krishna Consciounsess, Liberation, Shiva uniting with Shakti and many other names, depending on the tradition.
After it there are many other "steps" of the same, but there's no end to it, because the Will has no end, and "enlightment" is closely associated with True Will.
Selea, wise words :) thank you for quoting and giving me chance to see how blind i was.
This is quoted from a website that I thought may contribute to your thread homesick:
"Sakyamuni Buddha initially felt no one would comprehend what he had realized under the Bodhi tree. According to legend, he did not want to teach until the god Brahma convinced him that there are beings whose eyes had little dust and who would understand.
Enlightenment is not hard to get because it is foreign or complex. It is hard to understand only because it is so simple yet profound. It is like convincing a fish that it is in the water and it is mostly made of water. It is hard to see because it is so close and so present.
Because of its subtlety, some might even ask, what good is enlightenment anyway? Why should one try to realize enlightenment at all?
I think that Buddha's teaching of the Four Noble Truths is an elegant, simple, and profound solution to this question. Buddha taught that there is suffering; there is a cause of suffering; there is an end to suffering; and there is a path to end suffering. If you are dissatisfied, do not seek to end your dissatisfaction with a temporary patch. Liberate yourself from its inner root. Seek enlightenment.
Buddha identified a problem—dissatisfaction or suffering—and offered a solution. In that way, out of his great compassion, he made the purpose of liberation and the path to liberation accessible.
But—dare I say this?!—liberation has another meaning, beyond the end of dissatisfaction alone. Or perhaps I should say, calling it the end of dissatisfaction does not seem to do it complete justice, does not by itself give a sense of liberation's fullness, and might even mislead one into thinking it is a state that is placid or numb.
Beyond the end of suffering, there is an ecstatic quality to liberation. It gives fullness, meaning and joy. It brings gratitude and love. It reveals the beauty and magic of the ordinary. It grants overwhelming wonder that there is anything rather than nothing at all. It shows the whole universe to be an amazing magic trick. In its wake comes immense satisfaction and well-being. It is like putting down a burden one has carried for a million years. Attaining it might even make one want to sing, shout and dance like a madman or a fool."