Thoughts on this theory please

[babylonkiller]

Finally somebody who is looking at the world with an open mind.
spectraldragon, dont take this the wrong way (i dont mean to sound like a know it all)but you propably dont realize how close you are
to the truth about our universe.
Maybe if i give you some opinions you can come to more
conclusions.
1. The universe (creation)is the largest body of energy within itself
(the universe grows within and outward at the same time) and was
created within the void by way of a single thought (directive, desire etc).
2. "god" is not, and cannot be the way christianity aswell as many other faiths who share similair views depict it. It is said that "god" is our creator and he has given us the gift of free will.
yet at the same time, we will be punished if we do not obey gods
commandments, and rewarded if we obey. this clearly is a manipulation
of a beings spiritual integrity and thus conflicts with freewill. A god that needs to be worshipped shows ego, ego cannot be a part of
the creator for creation is unconditional love and is to wise and
advanced to have self serving thoughts. Creation only feeds and
creates, on and on within itself, constantly trying to evolve to
point of perfection, Absolute Absolutum.
3. yes the universe is alive, it is everything that is within itself.
therefore it is you, me, the dead leaves on the ground. OUtside this
universe are many other universes just as is ours, and all universes
remain within the void.
4. the universe is constantly growing, everything is evolving according to it's own genetic make-up and then follows a life of
growth in the form of a given species (human, plant, stone). we are
evolving so that we may become one with the source. so each life we
live is meant for us to learn as so we may not make the same mistake
and so that we may live according to the laws of creation. Each time
we die, we carry the info to the next life (akashic memory or whatever you wan to call it). So then in our new life we are smarter
as in we follow the laws of creation to a little greater degree.

i hope the above is of use to you, good luck in finding the truth[]

[SpectralDragon]

Like I said, babylon, that is only part of it. I could write a whole series of books on my beliefs and how I came to the conclusion of them. I had to stop right where I was though because at that point I would have to explain something I really am not comfortable explaining. Here are my thoughts on what you wrote.

1)I believe this is partly true. There are levels of existence that go beyond our understanding called absolute chaos,just as there are levels below our existence which are also absolute chaos. At that point I believe that our god would be a part of an atom again of a much larger diety. The cycle never ends. There is no void, only chaos.
2)I agree that god is not as he is depicted in christianity, or any other religion for that matter. Instead he is something of a combination of all beleifs in all religions. For example, he is present both in a personal and omni-present way because he IS our existence, being the very universe itself. Yes, there is ego there, but you need Ego to both create or destroy, otherwise you would sit around in buddhaland doing nothing and forever be in Nirvanna.
3)Everything in existence is alive and thus feeds more life. That is the way of the universe. Again, there is no void, only chaos, as a void would suggest that the buddhist are correct in assuming everything is nothing. If everything is nothing, then there is also no meaning, and if there is no meaning, then...you finish it. Buddha created this saying to teach, not for people to take it litterally.
4)Everything is growing and evolving, but not according to genetics. It is according to spiritual existence. Our bodies do not have souls, they are a part of a larger soul. We are re-born in order to grow, and thus evolve.

"We do not know until we are there"-anonamous. This is regarding how close I am to knowing the truth. My guide told me I was on the right path. Hopefully I will get there soon.

I would be interested to see how you came to similair conclusions as myself. Perhaps we can talk on MSN sometime. []

[babylonkiller]

i take back what i said about you being on the right path.
the fact that you have a "guide" demonstrates your inability
to except and maintain freewil.
also you say "At that point I believe that our god would be a part of an atom again of a much larger diety. The cycle never ends. There is no void, only chaos."
1. You state a belief in a diety. Creation is not a diety, it is
the will of creative thought.
2. to say there is no void is to say you know what is there, which
implies you have been there.
3."because he IS our existence". this shows you still view the world
in a male/female objective. Creation is not male or female, that is
a human concept, or alien aswell.
4."but you need Ego to both create or destroy, otherwise you would sit around in buddhaland doing nothing and forever be in Nirvanna"
creation does not have ego, it is above ego. ego is the creation
of something that creation put into existance. How do you figure i'll
be sitting in buddha land etc?
5."Again, there is no void, only chaos, as a void would suggest that the buddhist are correct in assuming everything is nothing. If everything is nothing, then there is also no meaning, and if there is no meaning, then...you finish it. Buddha created this saying to teach, not for people to take it litterally". all you are doing is
stating opinions and philosophies that other people have said.
you are restricting yourself to man made belief systems that
condradict the very laws of Creation and nature. you said so your self that the above you stated was an assumption by the buddhists,
not fact.
6."Everything is growing and evolving, but not according to genetics. It is according to spiritual existence. Our bodies do not have souls, they are a part of a larger soul. We are re-born in order to grow, and thus evolve."
first of we do have individual souls , but they are energy broken off
from the original force that created us within itself. Spiritual
existance is the path of Creation. For there is nothing more
spiritual than creation. Existance itself is thanks in whole to
creation. "We are reborn in order to grow and thus evolve". thats
pretty weak, i state my thoughts with descriptive and backed- up
insight and forsight. but all you do is say what i say in a simpler
way.
i think you have yet to understand what the meaning of life is and
what true freedom is. good luck.

[SpectralDragon]

Babylon Killer, you have yet to understand that it is impossible for mortal humans like ourselves to comprehend completely the enlightened. I hope you understand this one day.

Like I said, why is there a void? and if there is no void but only complete chaos, how do I think I can understand it?

If I have a guide then do you not think there is a reason for this? My guide/guardian protects me from my own human inabilities and helps me on my paths. She does not take away my free will. If I tell her "no" sharply enough she will back away.

If there is no ego in enlightenment, why do you think that when someone becomes part of a solar diety they cause a lot of damage while still on earth? These people say they have no ego, but our ego is what defines "us." It is impossible to be rid of ego while there is life and free will. If there is no ego, then why did I feel an overbearing presence while passing an angel in my astral travels? If there is no ego then there should be no presence.

We are all a small part of the larger. Have you never noticed how everyone in a crowd will always act the same way? This is the human consciousness, and it is there for us to support each other. We are not truly independant of each other on the level we believe we are, but independance is still there. Hence the reason ego was created in the first place. Without ego we would all be part of a human consciousness soup that would sit around and do nothing. The heavenly beings are the same way. They have ego. It's just at a completely different level than ours. Why do you think angels fall sometimes? Lucifer fell because his ego got in the way of the truth. Lucifer was one of the highest archangels, just under god. Explain that with "there is no ego." And if you say Lucifer is a tall tale and nothing more, without lucifer there would be no death, suffering, ect because he IS death suffering and Hell as well. He does not rule it, he IS it. Archangels are the same way. The heavenly bodies in our solar system make up the physical aspects of the archangels. This is why mars and such have astrological effects on us.

Your little belief of buddhist emptiness is not your own original idea either. I was trying to show you this. There is no void or emptiness or we would not exist.

That's my two-cents.

[babylonkiller]

just incase i was being a little too offensive, i dont mean to put a
angry tone on things, it's my passion gettting out of hand.
but anyway...
"if there is no void but only complete chaos, how do I think I can understand it?"
What are you saying my friend?
are you stating that you believe in "your" theory or that you dont
believe neither of ours and are just merly "testing your findings
for hopes of finding valid conclusion"?

"My guide/guardian protects me from my own human inabilities and helps me on my paths. She does not take away my free will. My guide/guardian protects me from my own human inabilities and helps me on my paths. She does not take away my free will. If I tell her "no" sharply enough she will back away.
with this statement i find quite a few contradictions...
first, you state that your guide protects you from your own "human
inabilities" which shows that you have a self esteem problem, which isin turn thanks to the ego (which is selfserving).
"she does not take away my freewill". correct, "she" does'nt. You are
the one who is giving it up by thinking and believing that you need
an outside force to show you the way. once again this is a classic
example of the way humankind are today... lazy and looking for the
easy answer (waiting for people to tell them all the answers rather
that coming to the conclusins themselves and attaining the experience
needed to further evolve and perfect).
you say "If I tell her "no" sharply enough she will back away"
once again you refer to a man or woman. you believe in identifying
and stating humans as male and female, you have not taught yourself to look at the world from a non judmental or categorized point of view. and the fact that yu have to say no "sharply enough" shows
that some force is needed, which means there is resistance. That
means something which is "guiding" you, that resists from ceasing
to guide you; would fall into the category of manipulation of free
will.

"If there is no ego in enlightenment, why do you think that when someone becomes part of a solar diety they cause a lot of damage while still on earth?"
once again you prove that you aknowledge the belief in "Deity".
and how did you come to this conclusion of a solar diety?
tell me this without refering to something a religeous or faith
oriented person has statd before, or ideas and philosophies already
brought to light. in other words, if you really logically thought
about and processed what you have stated, then you will be able
to tell me how you by yourself reached this certainty.

"but our ego is what defines "us." It is impossible to be rid of ego while there is life and free will. If there is no ego, then why did I feel an overbearing presence while passing an angel in my astral travels? If there is no ego then there should be no presence"
i am not saying people do not have ego (obviously you read,But lack
the ability to process this info in a logical manner)for people do
have ego, i am saying that creation Does not have ego for ego is a
self serving tool. Creation is Giving, unconditional love, the total
opposite of the things ego attracts to.
and to say that it is impossible to rid ourselves of ego while there
is still life and freewill..
Once again, Life is the result of Creation ; Creation itself came
into being by way of freewill driven by creative "thought" or "idea".
this alone tells us that your above statement just just that, a
statement. not a fact, not even a plausible theory.
and your talk about an angel... the angel is a christian symbol or
manifestaion.
If you do your research you will find that Christianity is Blood
stained with the crimson of the innocent to say the least.
Many things dont even corroborate  and often contradict themselves
so dont bother coming in on this christian angle. christianity has
done nothing but lock the shackle on our spirits.

"We are all a small part of the larger. Have you never noticed how everyone in a crowd will always act the same way? This is the human consciousness, and it is there for us to support each other. We are not truly independant of each other on the level we believe we are, but independance is still there. Hence the reason ego was created in the first place".
from reading your post i can see that you are mixing and inter-
mingling ideas, your focus is not on one direct topic, but rather
you jump from your theory of god to believing in angels.
i have met people like you many times before, you absorb all the
things you hear that satisfy your EGO and thus stick to doing so for
reasons of self gratification. It is alright to assume but not when
you cannot logically come to that same answer.
first you talk about what you believe than you say what "we" believe,
as if your speaking for the world.
this post has become very blurred, lets stick to telling each other
our theories and support it with logical imput, rather than assumptions and repeats of what you heard at zetatalk or nonsense along such lines.
and last but not least....
"Your little belief of buddhist emptiness is not your own original idea either. I was trying to show you this. There is no void or emptiness or we would not exist."
I am not a buddhist, but i agree with many things the B's say
because i have actually taken the time (weeks and months) contemplating their teachings and philosophy and seeing what
conclusion i come to.
you on the other hand suck in this Christian and imaginative garbage
all too readily, you are what i was before i began to think clear.
you are a fanatic as far as i can tell and are in need of people
who will corroborate your theories.
come back and talk about the "origins of life" and "galactic history"
and the creation of the universe etc. when you have deeper and more
meaningfull insight.

[SpectralDragon]

I suggest you read my post again, and instead of coming to conclusions quickly try to understand my thought. You say I am not being logical, but by thinking so "passionately," as you put it, YOU are the one who is not. Re-think this. I do not want to argue/debate with a hypocrit.

These conclusions I have come to I have used a system of thinking that says "everything is right until proven wrong." In this way I have come to the conclusions you are arguing with.

as far as chaos, you were stating I was saying chaos is something to be understood. It is not. Hence the name.

No self esteem problem here. I am human. I like to astral project. All abilies are limited to my experiences. Guides help you past those. Have you never AP'ed? if not I need to explain this better. I am quite capable of learning from experience, and have for a long time. And if you are saying that I cannot depend on anyone I had done that for the longest time. It is not a good path. We are part of a whole. The whole helps the single, and the single helps the whole. That is the way life is.

As far as the solar diety goes, it's quite obvious, as you said, that the universe is alive. Well on a smaller scale this solar system is alive, as per my theory. Scientist cannot figure out the weather completely or the sun because it is alive. The whole universe is this way. If you are satisfied then get back to the original point instead of trying to get out of it. I will say it again. If there is no ego, how do things function? I listed someone who had become enlightened and caused trouble as an example. If you wish I will get my friend to show me the link that showed this, And I will list it.

Again, you circled around the point. I was talking about the ego of the angel. If there is no ego there, why the overbearing presence? You say creation is love. Ego is the result of feelings like this. Anything that has feelings has an ego. If creation is life, then creation must also have ego for ego to be present NOW. Otherwise it would not exist in the first place. And if the angel is a christian manifestation what the heck was that I passed on the astral, a bhuddha? A person? I think not. Do not underestimate other religions. They have a basis of truth in them. The truth just has to be searched for. Remember my comment on Bhuddha creating saying to teach but not to show us the way? you have to consider these things symbolic. Though the information is corrupt from being handed down, a lot of good stuff is still there.

"you absorb all the
things you hear that satisfy your EGO and thus stick to doing so for
reasons of self gratification. It is alright to assume but not when
you cannot logically come to that same answer.
first you talk about what you believe than you say what "we" believe,
as if your speaking for the world."

Look who's calling the kettle black. If you want to debate with me quite being a hypocrit. Otherwise you will be ignored. Period. I have a good friggin' reason for this study. It hurts when somone like you tries to corrupt it to try and RAISE THIER OWN EGO.

you say I am not showing my logical conclusions? look again, and look at the first topic. Then look at your posts. Who is not showing what? You are stating things, and giving reasons to back them up, but no thought as to why YOU are correct.

And one last thing, DO NOT CALL MY YEARS OF thought, research, searching, and trying things out garbage again... Like I said, I hate hypocrits.

MODS/ADMINS- if the two of us continue in this please lock this and trash it. I came looking for good opinions, and while I did look for opinions that might go against what I thought I was not asking for what this guy is doing.

[babylonkiller]

listen up for a moment...
your words have no substance.
i challenge you to show me how you have come to your conclusions,
and you reply by saying you have come to your conclusions by way of
"YEARS OF thought, research, searching, and trying things out".
thanks for the vague answer. see what i mean?
i ask a question, you cant give an answer so you direct this to a more personal note, focussing more on how i offend you etc.

administrators moderators whoever, if the way i talk and go about
conversing with others; if you dont agree, say something to me.
but honestly speaking, i am guilty of nothing other than saying
what i feel.
no where have i written fuckk you or you are an moron. somethinhg
like that is nothing but trash talk.
i have stated my feelings towards the gullable and they in turn
become angry. bonk the people that cant read a message without
responding in an offended manner. (not to confuse with "offensive")

[SpectralDragon]

babylon, if you wished to tinkle me off by calling my work TRASH then you should have done it in the first place and gotten done with it. This would have saved both of us time and effort.  

Why do you act like you know everything and why are you trying to tick me off?

Why are you skipping over all of the reasonings I post like the following:As far as the solar diety goes, it's quite obvious, as you said, that the universe is alive. Well on a smaller scale this solar system is alive, as per my theory. Scientist cannot figure out the weather completely or the sun because it is alive.

I have given you my reasoning and you react by calling it trash. Is that logical? No. You call my answers vague, look again. become like this emoticon [] not like this [|)] I can tell that is what you are doing because of the speed with which you reply. (once again, I showed you my reasoning)

I knew from the first post this is what you were going to do. How? Easy.
(i dont mean to sound like a know it all)but you propably dont realize how close you are
to the truth about our universe.

This whole sentence said it all. If you didn't want to sound like you knew it all then how the heck do you think you know the truth about the universe? That train of thought implies you think too highly of yourself, you think you know everything, and that you are probably going to react very strongly to any resistence in your beliefs. Was I wrong? course not, what I thought already happened. (AGAIN, showing my reasoning)

I sent you an incomplete PM, but I said enough. If you are going to act that way, go somewhere else. From what I have seen most people here are not like that.

I am going to ignore any more posts you make here. I will try to get someone to lock this. Thank you for calling what I have been working on for years garbage.[!]

PLEASE LOCK THIS IT HAS GOTTEN OUT OF HAND.

[babylonkiller]

alright here's the last of it...
where do i say "Spectraldragon's work and/or research is trash"?
i think you mis understood. I think saying "f**k you " and "your an
a**hole" is trash talk, read more carefully (just like taking your
own advice)
i dont claim to be a know it all, i was taught that complete
confidence in ones thoughts and actions brings about results,
so ofcourse i wound budge from what i "believe" in.
oh my, oh no... you got offended.
why dont you take a reality check, buddy.
your so wrapped up in your thoughts and dreams that a simple formation of certain words can cause you to have such outbursts.
who should you be upset with...
me, the one who "offended"  you?
or you, for allowing yourself to be emotionally swayed by a couple
of typed words?

[SpectralDragon]

Yes I know I am being a little passionate about this. The point is, you are attacking me directly and being a little too rude. James, I appreciate the intervention.

you on the other hand suck in this Christian and imaginative garbage
all too readily, you are what i was before i began to think clear.
you are a fanatic as far as i can tell and are in need of people
who will corroborate your theories.

By saying that I suck in things that are garbage and useless you are calling my work garbage, because when something is tainted the whole thing is useless. are you not?

James, I understand what you are trying to get at here. He will be ignored. I was being a little too passionate here.

[SpectralDragon]

I didn't know of any other place to put this so I put this in this "generalized spirituality-looking forum". Mods and admins, I am sorry if I put this in the wrong place.

Universalism-Evolution Theory: "The universe is alive. Our god is a universe that had once been something very close to us in another god, had evolved, and thus created us."

Studying the universe and thinking of it as a living being is an old idea that has a lot of support. If you think of the world in human terms, in relative size the world would be an atom, with the solar system being the equivalent of a molecule, and going up the scale a galaxy would be a cell, and a cluster of galaxies could perhaps be an organ, and you would eventually get up to the living being itself.
But the individual cell is also a life of it's own in the human body, and you can also easily see that perhaps the galaxy itself is alive all on it's own, independent alive and yet part of the whole conscious being. As when you see things appear to move more rapidly in a cell and faster yet in an atom so does things appear to move faster in a galaxy and especially faster in a solar system. Going on an even smaller scale the smaller parts of the atom move at a speed that is impossible for the mind of the conscious being to keep up with.
If you put two and two together, assuming the Universalism theory is true, if the small parts of the solar system are equivalent to the small parts of an atom then couldn't the small parts of the atom be alive? Of course, scientist of no feasible way of knowing if this is true. But going by the pattern or the universe above, part of planet (part of atom), then the planet itself (atom), solar system (molecule), then the galaxy (cell), then clusters of galaxies (parts of conscious being/organs), then the whole being/galaxy (human). At least some parts of the atom are alive, and it is questionable weather the atom itself is alive, the molecules are groups of atoms and are also questionable either way, and the cell is alive all on it's own, so a group of cells is also alive, and so on.
Alive-?-?-Alive-Alive-Alive
   If the above is the case then the molecule would probably be alive. This theory assumes that the two unknowns is also alive, since if part of the whole is alive then the bigger part must also be alive. But how do you prove the universe is alive in the first place?
   A true scientist lists all of the possibilities he can and first assumes all of them are true. He goes through all of the possibilities one by one until he finds a flaw in each of them, because in algebra if even one number brings up a false equalization then the theory for that equation is incorrect. It is possible, though, that the equation itself was messed up and is not the correct equation. So the idea is to find an undeniable blunder in the theory. Thus it is easier to prove that the universe is not alive. Now another problem comes up: in the whole history of mankind, nobody has been able to give decisive evidence for the latter.
   So in math, to prove that something is correct, you cancel out all of the unnecessary things, and if you get the same things on both sides of the equation then it is correct. This is an example:

4x/2=2x
(4x/2)2=2x*2
4x=4x
4x/4=4x/4
x=x
   Assuming that in real life this works as well then you just have to prove that creation and evolution is the same thing. Why creation and evolution? Because the theory says that we were created by something similar to us that had eventually evolved to a god. It's like trying to say science and spirituality is the same thing. (which is essentially correct. Science=search for answers AND Spirituality=search for answers.) Putting such an idea into a math-like equation is hard to do though. Such is the reason people debate over these things.

Creation=we were created by something.
Evolution=we evolved from something, and it all started with the big bang.

This is the start of this process.
***
Well, here is a small part of my spiritual belief. Any comments, negative or otherwise, are welcome. I am more interested in what you believe in the theory itself than if it is right or wrong, but like I said any comments are welcome. And if you find a flaw please do me a favor and point it out.