Guru's

[Kenshi]

Life it self is my guru .

[Eol007]

quote:Originally posted by Kenshi

Life it self is my guru .

Hi Kenshi,

Neat reply, although I would be interested to know why you think "Life it self is my guru "

Could it not be said that life is not in fact the teacher, but rather a vehicle or schooling ground for the training of the spirit towards self realization! Is it worth considering that in fact the true teacher might therefore be your self? Hence GURU!

Moving slightly off track, yet perhaps along a similar and intertwining path, is part of little exercise I for one had found useful at times.

The peace troubadour and author James Twyman alleges that it had been handed from time immemorial to a group once known as the 'Church of John' or the 'Community of the Beloved Disciple'. He alludes that it had been rediscovered from a lost Gnostic teaching and is part of what he describes as The Secret of the Beloved Disciple. It might also be considered that this might only be a shard of knowledge/Gnosis that roots in all ancient traditions. Whichever way I hope you enjoy it!

A nutshell summary (although it is only my current spin on this) of this particular process (call it self programming or perhaps deprogramming if you wish), would be to place yourself in total and absolute surrender to God (divine principle, all that is and is not, Architect of the universe, higher self). Next in sequence would be to apply the same to Trust and finally to Gratitude. Finally having already immersed oneself in those three states, but not necessarily thinking about them on a conscious level, one proceeds through the following process or initiation (I am sure you get the idea): -

"To See as God Sees. To Feel As God Feels. To Know What God Knows. The Beloved Sees Only the Beloved."

You could substitute the use of 'I' rather than 'To' and if practiced with a partner one could use 'You'.

Yet again perhaps this brings us back to where one started again. Hence GURU (Ugh)! Or In others words is it possibel that this exercise might bring one to the realisation that 'you are God and therefore are already enlightened'. If you can believe that, that is !  

Forgive my feeble and amateur attempt at philosophy[]

Enjoy and have a fun Easter break,



S[)]

Only but a humble student.

[Kenshi]

Deep thoughts there friend .

It reminds me of a sentence which came to me in a meditation "let your heart and soul be your teacher (guru) and life it self your school."

To my personal experience, once one ended inner dualty and unites all fighting parts within him and lay down the weapons, one becomes one with his entire being. Later on, as one progresses further one will notice he starts to feel what other people feel, he feels one with his surroundings, he will notice we all share the same emptiness. This is as far as I got, but then got slapped in the face with disbalance . I wonder how far one can develop his awareness.

[Eol007]

Hi again,

quote:Originally posted by Kenshi

Deep thoughts there friend .

It reminds me of a sentence which came to me in a meditation "let your heart and soul be your teacher (guru) and life it self your school."

A good guiding thought indeed [^]

quote:To my personal experience, once one ended inner dualty and unites all fighting parts within him and lay down the weapons, one becomes one with his entire being. Later on, as one progresses further one will notice he starts to feel what other people feel, he feels one with his surroundings, he will notice we all share the same emptiness. This is as far as I got, but then got slapped in the face with disbalance . I wonder how far one can develop his awareness.

I found the process I described (however poorly) in my previous post very centering, yet I hope that I can empathize with your personal reflection with the exception of your phrase: -

quote:all share the same emptiness

I would be interested in what that meant to you. Hope you do not mind me asking, but would you care to elaborate?

As I do not know the context of your misbalancing, I can only assume that a specific lesson or set of lessons had to be reenacted for your own personal spiritual development. No doubt you have moved beyond that past experience into fresh and more joyful times.

It would be incredibly crass to claim to have been enlightened. But I certainly feel that we have opportunity to glimpse at the divine and as we move forward on our path regardless of apparent stumbling blocks. Could it not be said that our journey is ever upwards, and our eyes become ever more opened to greater levels of awareness and glimpse at the nature of our true potential?

I would consider that the guru is always available and that all we need do is but ask! Although how we choose to act on divine guidance is a matter of our own choosing. Even if it means that we have to revisit the school and retake the lesson. In light of that - can I reiterate my friend's statement as an example where he said: -

quote:They are the Lamp BUT God is the Light. At the end of the day being taught by a Guru on the inner planes is being taught by your Higher Self which your Guru has opened up for you in a unique way; (the higher Self of course is in reality the Cosmic Self the Absolute who is everything everywhere in Whom we all share and is the true Life, singular, of all beings). When that has happened inside you then you can trust their Guidance on the Path to God Realization.

I consider that one has all the potential within to develop or rekindle awareness lost to levels way beyond the wildest dreams of our imagination. What do you think?

I enjoyed your reply.

Thank you,



S

[Moonburn33]

there is nothing a guru can teach me that i can't learn myself- better.

organized religion is organized religion- they're all middlemen...

[Eol007]

Hi Moonburn,

quote:Originally posted by Moonburn33

there is nothing a guru can teach me that i can't learn myself- better.

organized religion is organized religion- they're all middlemen...

You never know, one may well just appear out of the blue and like a big fat slimey kipper slap you right bang in the face!

When the student is ready the teacher will appear!

Enjoy,


S[)]

[Moonburn33]

if a person wants to come to me to teach me, then by all means let hir come.  i'm not looking.

[Eol007]

Well then the right Goddess may come along when you least expect it.

Good luck,

S

[jilola]

quote:Could it not be said that life is not in fact the teacher, but rather a vehicle or schooling ground for the training of the spirit towards self realization! Is it worth considering that in fact the true teacher might therefore be your self? Hence GURU!

I think that hits the nail almost on the head.
Life is indeed the vessel or the environment we have chosen for the lessons we need to learn.
A teacher is nothing but a mirror that allows us to reflect our selves and thus facilitate the learning.
No-one can teach you about yourself or your existence but you. A guru is but a catalyst and a facilitator.

2cents & L&L
Jouni

[Eol007]

quote:Originally posted by jilola

quote:Could it not be said that life is not in fact the teacher, but rather a vehicle or schooling ground for the training of the spirit towards self realization! Is it worth considering that in fact the true teacher might therefore be your self? Hence GURU!

I think that hits the nail almost on the head.
Life is indeed the vessel or the environment we have chosen for the lessons we need to learn.
A teacher is nothing but a mirror that allows us to reflect our selves and thus facilitate the learning.
No-one can teach you about yourself or your existence but you. A guru is but a catalyst and a facilitator.

2cents & L&L
Jouni

Hi Jouni,

Ta for dropping in on this little thread and leaving your apt comment.

In a short space only a few years I have somehow met or been blessed with meeting some remarkable individuals: –
including for instance a lady meditator with over 50yrs of spiritual service. Her presence was truly powerful yet incredibly humble as a balance. Although the darshan with her profound, I would not picture her as my teacher per say. On the other hand I have enjoyed teaching and guidance from individuals who appear to have released the shell of incarnation to put it politely. But perceive them in a relation of friendship rather than disciple/guru (forgive my ego), but again I am often humbled.
I do not guru seek, but seem to recieve the blessing of teaching.

Have you had any interesting storys to relate regarding spiritual teachers?

Cheers,

S

[jilola]

When we are ready and perceptive we will find our lessons provided and facilitated by numerous sources and individuals.
Seeking for a guru is a good indication of one's willingness to learn. But in searching for a guru one should always keep in mind that no other person can teach the you. They can only facilitate and help to reflect the ideas and solutions.

My advise is to respect the experience of honest souls and to learn from  their experiences when appropriate. But no entity in existence has all the answers and holds the absolute truth. That is the realm of the totality; we all have that, but the learning is about recovering the knowledge.

And no, I don't have any tales to tell about teachers of gurus. Even my guides seems to have disappeared.

2cents & L&L
Jouni

[Moonburn33]

learn to keep yourself from unravelling and you'll figure life out eventually- or you'll cease to care about figuring life out.  either way there will always be room for jello.

[Tayesin]

Hi All,
The word Guru does have connotations.  So far many of those who have been described as Guru's in our cultural perspective on it have been not so much the teacher nor catalyst.  In many situations it is more about the Guru having the Ego pandered to, which is also not catalytic to the students/adherents.

We all DO have all the answers in us already.  We are not here so much to LEARN but are here to REMEMBER.  The lessons we chose to experience here are not so much about Lessons but more about the experience itself.  We do not choose lessons so that we can grow spiritually, we choose the Experiences so that we may all the more easily remember what we do know.

It has been said that when the student is ready the teacher will come.  That is almost always perceived as the teacher having to be a human being.  This is fallacy.  Out teachers are sometimes people and most times they are our experiences, the situations we pass through, the animals and other things around us are also excellent teachers and so we need to widen our perspective on what constitutes a teacher.

I beg to differ on the premise that life is a classroom.  Why would great and powerful beings such as our Selves choose to come to a world to forget and need to re-learn what we already know,in a classroom ?  Wouldn't it be more effective for us to choose incarnation here in order to have the Experiences offered by this unique world ?

There is no need to have Guru's.  Most people who do, experience little over a long period of time, from my perspective.  I see that NOW is the time for sharing in the world, for sharing the creative and simple techniques that work for most people to help them grow at an increased rate, as is nessecitated by our races precarious foothold on this world.  In which case searching for a Guru to worship will only facilitate the experince of being an adherent to some belief system that may not allow the growth that is needed in these times.

Well, that's my unusual opinion on this topic.

Love Always.[]

[jilola]

quote:I beg to differ on the premise that life is a classroom. Why would great and powerful beings such as our Selves choose to come to a world to forget and need to re-learn what we already know,in a classroom ?

To gain perspective? Hands on training, in a manner of speaking [8D]

2cents & L&L
Jouni

[Tayesin]

Hi Jouni..........
(tay waves madly in the direction of the northern hemisphere),

  Excellent suggestion. I like the idea of hands on experience, it feels good. Thanks. [8D]

  If we consider that we truly are very great and powerful beings, then we already know the conditions of incarnation to the Earth.  As 'Godly' beings we do know the all, so maybe we are testing ourselves as part of the reason for coming here, to extend ourSelf.  In the doing of that we must be providing the creative awareness with experience of itself, just as we are when incarnating...experiencing a diversified portion of ourself in physical forms.

  What better way to come to know ourselves than to push our boundaries by trying new and unusual things.  Many people do it by base-jumping and all sorts of adrenaline-powered experiences that test our emotional, physical and mental stabilities and strengths.

  So perhaps we as Souls are doing the same things.  We know that there is no substitute for direct experience, and we choose therefore to incarnate... and probably did so in other realms before coming to this one, and will most probably go on to other realms to seek further experiences to increase our and the Universes understanding of it/our-selves.

  And I am way off topic here, LOL.  Many apologies.

Love Always.[]

[jilola]

I'll help you out and get this thread back on topic.

Guru's would be the guys arranging bungee jumps. The idea is that they know how to attach the cord and adjust it to the correct length in order to provide a safe but thrilling experience.
Some gurus are good at that, others bounce you off the ground.

Also, you don't need a guy helping out with the  cord, all you really need is a high bridge and the cord. You can figure out the rest by yourself (or bounce off the ground).

In a spiritual context there is a like danger of being bounced off the ground, which is why one should be careful about who he let's take charge of the spiritual bungee cord.

2cents & L&L
Jouni

[Eol007]

Curious analogy and insights.

I am enjoying this.

Cheers

[Tayesin]

quote:Originally posted by jilola
Also, you don't need a guy helping out with the  cord, all you really need is a high bridge and the cord. You can figure out the rest by yourself (or bounce off the ground).

Excellent !!  Perfect !!  Truths such as this are so simple.

Love Always.[]

[galacticsurfer]

I read in a book about learning and personal development that one should have a lot of gurus who are experts in many areas of interest. For example I buy a book on yoga or OBEs or something and the techniques they give are important to me. A guru in the old sense of the word was from when information was completely limited. Nowadays we can collect information from everywhere from people  who have enormous amounts of experience in so many areas and are much more advanced than we are so that we can ride on the coattatils of such people and not always just try to reinvent the wheel or live in total ignorance. The internet is a wonderful tool for finding out sources of such information as I would have been quite a different person had I not used the internet to find such experts who teach techniques like RBs NEW and many other such things over the years. Everybody picks and chooses from a huge smorgasbord of such teachings according to his own desires and needs. So we are our own gurus in that we pick what we need and we also need help from others to save us time. I mean people long ago made their own shoes, clothes, food and everything else. Nowadays I go to specialists for everything. The world is one big supermarket of ideas and we should take full advantage of that. Do not get too hung up on one teaching or Guru. If his technique bombs try the next idea. Eventually we will find something fitting for us.

[wendi]

A real Guru is someone who boosts your faith in the Divine, as a living example.


Before enlightenment
Chopping wood
Carrying water

After enlightenment
Chopping wood
Carrying water

[Eol007]

quote:Originally posted by wendi

A real Guru is someone who boosts your faith in the Divine, as a living example.


Before enlightenment
Chopping wood
Carrying water

After enlightenment
Chopping wood
Carrying water

Hi Wendi,

You've been busy... Nice little post.

Stephen

[Eol007]

Here is a little string of conversation had recently with a friend.

It would be interesting to learn of some opinions held or interesting experiences had concerning Guru's, and how it has contributed to ones spiritual development by some of the good people on this forum.

Hope I have posted in the appropriate area?


Stephen

----- Original Message -----

Hi Steve

Yes. But I would ask that the e.mail not be edited, only the address removed.

HUGH

----- Original Message -----

Hi Hugh,

Truly and wonderfully put. You know that I was teasing a little...

Thank you,



Stephen

P.S. A respect that these are personal thoughts, can I have your permission to share them for debate... I would omit your email address! Let me know either way?

----- Original Message -----

Hi Steve

As regards Gurus, in the past I would have agreed with you that hero worship played a great part. I was, in my early years heavily involved with a small Christian cult, and our leader was a very charismatic figure with a remarkable knowledge of the Bible, plus he was blessed with many gifts of spiritual power. Such a combination on myself  as a 19 year old was overwhelming; as indeed it was on the other members of our group. It seemed to us at the time that he had a hot line to God...in fact if he said I like tea it was to our years "Thus saith the Lord, I like tea". It took quite a number of years to break free of his influence. Now don't get me wrong, he lived a morally good life, and also I have nothing against true Christianity, but none of us dared do a thing without our leaders approval, because in our eyes he had a hot line to God. He was the one who "Knew". Thus it was when I came into the Hindu Buddhist way of life, I really loved it but I balked at the idea of worshiping a teacher or Guru. Because like you I feel that my heart and my head are my teachers plus friends as and when we need their council, but over all my Spirit Knows. So who needs a Guru or anyone else to teach him? Who needs to hero worship another man? Thus it was that I was very reluctant to find a Guru. However, since I`ve been to India and met Guru Ji I have changed my views. Maybe I got lucky with my choice of Guru because there are many who will abuse and exploit their position. All I can say is that I do not in anyway hero worship my Guru though to an outsider it may seem that way. What has happened is that a new dimension of inner guidance has come into my life through my encounter with Guru JI. And I do stress that it is inner guidance of a deeply Spiritual nature; for although we are thousand of miles apart he is still very much teaching and guiding me. Some of these people are more than mere human beings. Look at it this way, an Angel does not require worship yet he would command us to worship God. Its something like that with a true Guru. Such a person by his very life commands our respect but not our worship. They are the Lamp BUT God is the Light. At the end of the day being taught by a Guru on the inner planes is being taught by your Higher Self which your Guru has opened up for you in a unique way; (the higher Self of course is in reality the Cosmic Self the Absolute who is eveything everywhere in Whom we all share and is the true Life, singular, of all beings). When that has happened inside you then you can trust their Guidance on the Path to God Realization. It must also be remembered that some of these teachers are no longer alive on the Earth plane yet they still are certain peoples Gurus (see memories dreams and reflections by Carl Jung for more on that aspect.) There's loads more I could say on the subject but time fails me. All I would like to say is that it is an experiential thing that is better felt than telt. I hope thats been of some help to you Steve.

Live long and prosper

HUGH

----- Original Message -----

Hi Hugh,

Thank you for your most thoughtful reply. Hope my initial message did not trouble you?

I was simply exploring the anti-cult (allegedly non-biased on the fence version) viewpoint in general and not specifically searching to highlight the Swami Rama case in particular. Although I thought it might be interesting to seek feedback on my own question concerning this case from your good self!

Here is a response to the scandal (which was well known at the time apparently) from Pandit Rajmani Tigunait.

See: http://www.lifepositive.com/Spirit/masters/swami-rama/rajmani-tigunait.asp

Personally, and this is based on intuitive rather than on educated reasoning I have never sensed discord with the spirit of this illuminated gentleman. Probably what I was alluding to - was the question of Guru Worship or the cult of personality, which is a different and more darkly intriguing question altogether. But then to quote the idiosyncratic lingo patter of our brothers across the pond Gee yoU aRe yoU! Who needs guru's anyway... perhaps better to have friends to light the path along the way, and even better to be a friend to oneself!

May your passage always be in light,


S
----- Original Message -----

Hi Steve,

Thanks for that e.mail. Frankly I am appalled at its content, because if it is true then it throws the whole of the Himalayan Institute into the gutter. If the root is good the fruit is good. What saddens me is that I`m inclined to believe these allegations. Though I very much want to be proved wrong. There is no doubt in my mind that the denial of human nature is merely caging the tiger; and a caged tiger is far more dangerous than one in the wild. This is the problem with enforced celibacy. True celibacy has its rightful place in Spirituality but it should never be enforced from the outside; it is an intensely personal decision on the part of the one who makes such a commitment, and is between God and the one who makes such a choice and no one else. However my feelings are that it is a matter of growth a sort of spiritual/ biological process. It is as I said a deeply personal decision based on a personal conviction and should never be demanded by any outside influence. At the end of the day its not for everyone. It therefore behoves total honesty on the part of those who are at the forefront who advocate such things whether Gurus or Catholic Priests; for one hypocrite can do much harm.

Live long and prosper

HUGH
----- Original Message -----

Subject: Swami Ram allegations

Hi Hugh,

Although there is a need as a matter of balance for skeptics, debunkers and dangerous cult research it is a shame to come across this one whether the allegations are true or not: -

http://www.rickross.com/groups/swami_rama.html

But then I don't believe in celibacy myself... suppose that if you claim to be a renunciate then it is a different kettle of fish. You are probably aware of the campaign against Sai Baba as well.

Take care,



Stephen