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[Davoush]

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[Stookie_]

Here's some of my random thoughts on the matter:

You can't have rich without poor. No success without hardships. It's the nature of the physical. Sometimes I have to experience something that I perceive as negative so somebody else can take a step forward. We're all in this together.

Also, a person who has no spiritual life at all is still affected and changed by their experiences. It's not really for us to judge what is spiritual for another person or the finality of what they will get out of their life's situation. Perhaps an "un-spiritual" life is exactly what they needed and came here to do.

[CFTraveler]

I have some more somewhat random thoughts in the idea department, please bear with me, because my thoughts are not organized this morning.

You addressed the cultural reason- any society that has a strong religious dominance, in which the religion does not allow for 'alternate' thought, will discourage the open expression of that thought, making it appear it doesn't exist.  But it occurs to me that there are islamic sects that do explore spirituality, such as Sufism, for example.

From the point of view of spirituality, and the concept of 'soul evolution' (I'm thinking of Dr. Michael Newton's work here) you have the concept of soul groups evolving together through reincarnation- so I do believe a constrictive religio-political situation may be used by entire soul groups for the purpose of evolving the whole group beyond this constriction, and if they can do it in a way that does not destroy the culture then they have improved immensely.

If this is true (the soul group theory), then you can see whole societies evolving in a certain way, and maintaining some sort of cohesiveness in this way.  And if reincarnation is true, you can see how groups from one place could choose to be born in another place to change the dynamic, all of a sudden.  It is interesting that there has been a lot of dissent in many places all at once, tipping the scales one way while in other places, you see an almost diametrically opposite tendency.  Maybe it's a natural tendency to balance out, or something else altogether.

[Davoush]

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[CFTraveler]

Why did society evolve to be this way? Is it really beneficial to anyone? Could it be seen as some kind of 'test'? Maybe the 'lesson' for these souls is that dogmatic religion is not actually all that beneficial? But if that's the case, why is the region becoming ever more obsessed with dogma and sectarianism, not to mention as well as having extremely high birth rates?

My opinion (and nothing more than that) would be that if you look at history, you see that societies evolve nonlinearily- you have a very 'closed' society that evolves to 'open', and then swings back and forth the other way. It is hard to see it as a religious situation, I tend to think of it as an evolution of the cultural group- you see cultural groups evolving from one religion that is very open to one that is very strict, and so it goes- the cultural tendency swings back and forth between either religions or sects amongst the religions themselves.
It is my unlearned opinion (and since I have no direct relationship to your culture, I am well aware that I don't know what I'm talking about here, yet it didn't stop me, hee hee) that if you have a very strict and restrictive religion the only option to 'dissent' is to cling to a sectarian aspect of it and fight for the principles of that one vs. the other one, since the ability to 'think outside the parameters of the religion' is so limited.   If there are many choices and the freedom to make them you don't get so emotionally attached to the one you choose, but if your choices are limited in what you are allowed to pick, you will become more attached to the only 'freedom of choice' you have and will defend this particular choice with your life, if necessary.  Of course I could be wrong.   

I guess I feel some kind of contradiction when I think about my own spirituality, then I think, actually there are people who don't even have the chance to think about these topics for various reasons, so why should I? Does this mean I deserve to be in this situation, or is it pure luck?

There is an element of self-blame in the use of the word 'deserve'- you are just more aware than most people in your cultural group-it seems to me.

Sorry for my ramblings.

Nothing to be sorry about.

[NoY]

i dont mean to be rude but maybe they are just less evolved a few hundred years ago we were exactly the same



:NoY:

[CFTraveler]

i dont mean to be rude but maybe they are just less evolved a few hundred years ago we were exactly the same



:NoY:

That doesn't make sense nodes- think about it this way- they invented the arabic numbers and mathematics- the mathematical concept of 'zero', for example.. long before the 'west' knew what to do with it.  In the middle ages they were at the forefront of science- and were studying mysticism actively- for example, the Kabbalah that was studied in Spain in the middle ages was both written about by Jewish, Christian and Arab mystics.  The thing is, that  at some point the religious doctrine and scientific discoveries became at odds, and growth stopped in some disciplines.  And then again not that long ago, Sharia became the law, and the cultural standards reverted to those of before modern times.  So it wasn't a matter of stagnation, but of reversion.  Something we might want to take as a lesson.


The point being, that evolution isn't linear and isolated- it goes in cycles.

--

[Davoush]

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[CFTraveler]

CFT Traveler, good points, I kind of overlooked the whole cyclic aspect of societal development. I wonder how this all fits together in the big picture (obviously something which I can only make mere speculations on)...why might it be that the majority of the world's population do live in under-satisfactory conditions? Could this be due to a 'new influx' of souls in our physical world? Interesting question to think about...

You might want to reread what I wrote, because I didn't like it and rewrote it some.   
But I have considered this about the 'new' influx of souls... I think I may be one of those.

[Thread Killer]

All I can add to any of this(and by doing so, will kill the thread) is that most people have a public face, but a private heart. Many, to get along in their social groupings will tow the line. But alone, in the dark, they think for themselves.

[Volgerle]

That doesn't make sense nodes- think about it this way- they invented the arabic numbers and mathematics- the mathematical concept of 'zero', for example.. long before the 'west' knew what to do with it.  In the middle ages they were at the forefront of science- and were studying mysticism actively- for example, the Kabbalah that was studied in Spain in the middle ages was both written about by Jewish, Christian and Arab mystics.  The thing is, that  at some point the religious doctrine and scientific discoveries became at odds, and growth stopped in some disciplines.  And then again not that long ago, Sharia became the law, and the cultural standards reverted to those of before modern times.  So it wasn't a matter of stagnation, but of reversion.  Something we might want to take as a lesson.

Maybe it is not entirely wrong. Of course, I can also only speculate more than know, but anyway, let's get carried away now ...

Yes the Arabs back then were a very advanced culture - esp. when compared to European medieval culture. It can even be said to be one of the "benefits" (if there were one) of the crusades that by cross-cultural contact - and that wasn't exclusively of a bellicose kind - the "West" / Europe could then take great advantage of the knowledge they gained from "the East" (historical myths say that esp. the Templars did so to a great extent).

However, what if there were groups in the Arab world then drove their society to these cultural high lights who weren't necessarily the same soul groups that drove the dogmatic religion later on or at the same time (and its spreading by force and by the sword)? There are always niches for groups and tendencies in every society.

So maybe there are the same cultures but differently advanced soul groups that either throw back or advance the whole region and its culture. Souls (or soul groups/'families') may indeed incarnate together in the same region for emotional ties or just 'out of habit'. But they might be on different (advanced, beginner, proficient...) levels and follow different overall goals with their lives then.

I am reminded here of another interesting example given by Edgar Cayce (iirc) during his 'life readings' where he maintained that the World Wars (I and II) were driven by soul groups,  prone to playing with the negative energies, that had also been incarnating in Atlantis at the time of its societal/cultural and general downfall (supposedly also by warring factions and not solely by environmental cataclysms, as it is normally claimed).

And (regarding the evolution level) there is another strikingly profane aspect that was not yet talked about here. Yes, it is really mundane and almost too simplistic in its logic, but that makes it valuable for me:

WAITING QUEUES !!!


This means that lives where you can thrive more easily spiritually - possibly also our very ones here in this time/space frame - might not be easy to be gained by "first-timers" / beginner levels.

It is intersting that this is exactly what Robert Monroe is talking about in his lecture there ("Why are we here?") with his examples given here. Despite its illustrative, stereotypical and mostly exaggerated nature, these examples contain this simple logic that I find quite striking.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCFWoBS1sKk#t=4m30s

(To all: The entire talk is worth watching in full anyway. I recommend doing so if you have not yet come across it.)