shadows

[Hephaestus]

what the hell are you going on about.

[Mohamed]

Yes, what are you talking about?

You obviously have some screws loose up there.  Honestly, you are the type of person that a Mystics board such as this one does not need, nor do we want people like you here.  I urge the moderators to remove such provocative threads and posts like this!

Mohamed

[Euphoric Sunrise]

It seems to me that all xander is saying is a person needs to acknowledge the negative aspects of their religion (in this case) and overcome them.
Xander is saying the best thing to do is confront the "demons" (figurative) of your beliefs and not ignore them to the extent that you pass all negative acts of your religion off as the work of an evil deity, eg. Satan.
Correct me if i'm wrong, xander

[T_Kman0610]

ohhhh i knew that [^]

[Logic]

In around the 1700's, christians used so called, 'witches' as a scapegoat to bring back interest in the church. Innocent women were burned at the stake for satanist acts they never commited.
Also in christianity is the sexist rulings that still exist today, where women are still not equal in rights as compared to men.
It probably isnt divine intervention, but human error from editing the bible so many times to create a dogma.

[xander]

quote:Originally posted by Euphoric Sunrise

It seems to me that all xander is saying is a person needs to acknowledge the negative aspects of their religion (in this case) and overcome them.
Xander is saying the best thing to do is confront the "demons" (figurative) of your beliefs and not ignore them to the extent that you pass all negative acts of your religion off as the work of an evil deity, eg. Satan.
Correct me if i'm wrong, xander

You are indeed correct.

Xander

[Mohamed]

xander,

I must begin by stating that you misunderstand your own views.  You believe that the God we (monotheistic Religions) worship is a neg.  You claimed to have opened the Qur'an and felt negative energies emitting from it.  I will tell you something; this is strictly YOUR point of view, there is no negative energies emitting from it; you only believe there to be negative energies emitting from it!  Your negs are another's positives.  For example, I might hang out with someone whom you feel a lot of negative energies from, but to me that person is nothing but positive energy!

To put it in even simpler terms, computer geeks feel positive amongst one another, though, they feel negative around jocks, where as jocks feel positive amongst one another, though, they feel negative around computer geeks.  Do you understand?  Everyone has his/her own negs and positives; it all depends on how we view the world.

Euphoric Sunrise,

This does not mean that his post is not provocative.  The fact that he used Allah (Arabic meaning for "The God") as an example shows us that he is against all monotheistic religions and is directly provoking us.  You on the other hand used Satan as an example; unless there are any Satanists here; you have not provoked anybody.

Mohamed

[xander]

Originally posted by Mohamed

xander,

I must begin by stating that you misunderstand your own views.

>Nope sorry, please don't try to tell me what I think when you have no clue. Perhaps I shall be more precise next time.

 You believe that the God we (monotheistic Religions) worship is a neg.

> No, I merely posed the question.

You claimed to have opened the Qur'an and felt negative energies emitting from it.  I will tell you something; this is strictly YOUR point of view,

>are you telling me my experiences are wrong when I'm the one who experienced them?

there is no negative energies emitting from it;

>in your opinion you mean.

 The fact that he used Allah (Arabic meaning for "The God") as an example shows us that he is against all monotheistic religions

> I said allah or jehovah. I'm not against all monotheistic religions, most have something to offer. did you know it was muslims who found teh cure for smallpox?

and is directly provoking us.

>nope, thats your perception. I'm trully sorry that you are not more secure in your beleifs.

You on the other hand used Satan as an example; unless there are any Satanists here; you have not provoked anybody.

>depends on how one defines "satanist"

Xander

[James S]

Xander, good topic!![^]

I see where you're coming from. If I'm correct, you're looking at things like Christians and their crusades, Muslims and their persecution of the Ba'Hai in Iran. Though most religions will go to great lengths to try and prove that their god is perfect, in doing so they more often than not only succeed in showing the failings of their religion.

This is where people are going to start getting very defensive about their beliefs. The more defensive they are, the less they are able to deal with the demons of thier religion. If people are unable to accept the flaws in their religions, deal with them and move on, then history will continue to repeat itself, as the devout will never be able to see their faults.
"But we've always done it this way. A million dead people can't have be wrong, can they?" ( - Terry Pratchett)

As I have learned from Timeless, shadows are linked to ego. Ego plays just as big a part in religion as it does in other areas of our lives, unless we can overcome it.

Regards,
James.

[xander]

quote:Originally posted by James S

Xander, good topic!![^]

The more defensive they are, the less they are able to deal with the demons of thier religion. Regards,
James.

Thanx. It's also about personal demons. I am currently dealing with mine and while they are a bit diff than traditional negs they still bear watching.

Xander

[Mohamed]

quote:Originally posted by xander



there is no negative energies emitting from it;

>in your opinion you mean.

Exactly, as it is in your opinion that such energies are emitting from it.  It is my opinion, and, also the opinion of some 1.2 Billion+ people, that nothing but pure, positive energy is emitted from it.

James S,

"Though most religions will go to great lengths to try and prove that their god is perfect, in doing so they more often than not only succeed in showing the failings of their religion.  This is where people are going to start getting very defensive about their beliefs. The more defensive they are, the less they are able to deal with the demons of thier religion."

James, I would like to thank you for your input.  It has opened my eyes where they were once closed.  It is true that I and many others become defensive about our beliefs and, in doing so, we usually become angry and say things which are not necessarily true.  Sometimes what we say makes us look bad.

I do not believe that Islam has daemons, though; I do believe that many of the followers have daemons of their own, and they try to use Islam to "Justify" their wrong doings.  Any educated Human can see clearly that their "Justification" does not fit anywhere in Islam.  In another post I gave a great example of how Saudi Arabians try to use Islam to justify mistreatment of Women, though, they never have any Qur'anic or Islamic proof that their acts are "Just," they only claim them to be.

Mohamed

[James S]

quote:I do not believe that Islam has daemons, though; I do believe that many of the followers have daemons of their own, and they try to use Islam to "Justify" their wrong doings.

Nicely put Mohamed.

Followers of Christianity and Judaeism do exactly the same thing.

In this forum alone, like a reflection of the world at large, I have seen people defending their religion to the point that they make themselves look like hypocrites. I am not an advocate of religions at all. Most religions I see as being of human construction to justify their own desires, or failings as you have said.

What I see as being the "essence" of Islam should not be treated as a religion, but a way of life, which is focussed on spiritual advancement. If people were to treat it as such, it leaves little room for personal "demons", as it stops being an excuse for our failings, and starts being a reason for us to become better than we are. Again, the same should also be true for Christianity, as I feel  the "essence" of Islam and Christianity is remarkably similar.

Regards,
James.

[xander]

quote:Originally posted by Mohamed
Exactly, as it is in your opinion that such energies are emitting from it.  It is my opinion, and, also the opinion of some 1.2 Billion+ people, that nothing but pure, positive energy is emitted from it.

1000 years ago the majority thought the earth was flat. What tehy thought was far different from the truth.
Just as what one group considers to be a truthful religion cannot prove that they have truth, they can only speculate based on experience.
What concerns me the most about many religions is that they would seek to not only invalidate my experiences but put me to the sword for not agreeing with them.

I also disagree that any religion has only pure positive energy, all religious texts have their dark sides. Does not the quran speak of losers, and those whose faces shall be covered in molten brass. those who are the "losers" and their thirst shall not be quenched?

It sounds pretty negative to me.

Xander (slayer of illusion)

[Mohamed]

James S,

"What I see as being the "essence" of Islam should not be treated as a religion, but a way of life, which is focussed on spiritual advancement. If people were to treat it as such, it leaves little room for personal "demons", as it stops being an excuse for our failings, and starts being a reason for us to become better than we are. Again, the same should also be true for Christianity, as I feel the "essence" of Islam and Christianity is remarkably similar."

Very well said!  Many people look at their religion and take it as just that, a religion.  Religion should be viewed in terms far greater that just scripture.  As you stated, there is an essence in Religion that scripture has no power over, scripture only leads us to that "essence."

Christianity and Judaism all have this same essence, though; scripture in these religions are contradictory and turn people away from the true essence of their religion.

Thanks for pointing that out James S.  This idea of essence and way of life is a good way of viewing religion!

xander,

As stated above, scripture leads us to the essence of religion.  One thousand years ago the majority believed the Earth to be flat, though, they had no valid scripture to guide them to this conclusion (nor would they argue it as the Church would kill them for being deceived by Satan).  I take the Qur'an as valid scripture because of the knowledge and logic held with in it.  Read my Miracles of the Qur'an post and see for your self some of the wisdom held with in the Qur'an.

"Just as what one group considers to be a truthful religion cannot prove that they have truth, they can only speculate based on experience."

So you are truthful and we are all false?

"but put me to the sword for not agreeing with them."

I haven't seen such behavior here.

"Does not the quran speak of losers, and those whose faces shall be covered in molten brass. those who are the "losers" and their thirst shall not be quenched?"

This can also be considered a positive.  God is telling us what will happen to those whose evil deeds are greater that their good deeds.  This way people would wish to do good on this Earth, therefore bettering Humanity.  Also, the word is not losers it is wrong-doers.

Mohamed

[kakkarot]

yes religions have their shadows, but be careful to not attribute the shadows of the people using the religion to the actual religion. 'twould be just as wrong to blame all evil on religions as to say that religions have no evil whatsoever.

many people merely use the name of a religion to further their own ends.

~kakkarot

[xander]

all religions have shadows. Their darkside floating just below the surface ready to justify horrendous behavior in the name of it's "god" whether it be a god of the xians, muslims, nazis, mormons, wiccans, etc.

Many attempt to whitewash the shadow or ignore it all together. This is dangerous. A shadow ignored is a shadow that has the ability to cause a lot of pain. Look at your "gods" look at their shadows, force them to OWN their shadows and not pass them off onto some scapegoat like "satan".

I own up to my shadows. I challenge everyone to acknowledge their shadows, from the lowest of humans to the highest of "gods" they must OWN their own shadows.

Xander

Al-Anon for the gods

"hello my name is Allah."
"hi Allah"
"and I am an egomaniac, and I need help."
"Recognizing the problem is the first step to solving it."