Title: Disadvantages of Christ Allegiance
Post by: James S on September 10, 2003, 01:25:03
Post by: James S on September 10, 2003, 01:25:03
Ok I'll have a real quick stab at this as I believe my own personal experiences here gives me a valid opinion.
I followed the way christ for 16 years after 1) giving my heart to him as requested by the scriptures, 2) being baptised by full immersion, again at the request of the scriptures, and 3) being baptised by the holy spirit as I believed was the right thing to do. So there you have the relevant info to tell you that I was committed to the ways and teachings of Jesus.
There was no peace in my heart as a result from following this path.
For me that was the disadvantage.
I turned to another path after a visitation from the spirit of nature when she manifeted herself to me in human form.
For me the advantage was now I knew which direction to take and now my heart is truly at peace.
The important thing I believe here are the words "for me".
We have been created as individuals, each with our own likes and dislikes, our own perceptions, our own ways of doing things. I cannot subscribe to the idea that God made us this way then locked us into one and one only way of reaching him, to deny the individuality that he gave us to begin with.
My path to God is very much a personal thing. I don't expect everyone else to follow this same path.
By the way Ben, this is a thoughtfull and intelligent question. Thank you.
Regards,
James.
I followed the way christ for 16 years after 1) giving my heart to him as requested by the scriptures, 2) being baptised by full immersion, again at the request of the scriptures, and 3) being baptised by the holy spirit as I believed was the right thing to do. So there you have the relevant info to tell you that I was committed to the ways and teachings of Jesus.
There was no peace in my heart as a result from following this path.
For me that was the disadvantage.
I turned to another path after a visitation from the spirit of nature when she manifeted herself to me in human form.
For me the advantage was now I knew which direction to take and now my heart is truly at peace.
The important thing I believe here are the words "for me".
We have been created as individuals, each with our own likes and dislikes, our own perceptions, our own ways of doing things. I cannot subscribe to the idea that God made us this way then locked us into one and one only way of reaching him, to deny the individuality that he gave us to begin with.
My path to God is very much a personal thing. I don't expect everyone else to follow this same path.
By the way Ben, this is a thoughtfull and intelligent question. Thank you.
Regards,
James.
Title: Disadvantages of Christ Allegiance
Post by: LA FORET MAUVE on September 10, 2003, 02:08:07
Post by: LA FORET MAUVE on September 10, 2003, 02:08:07
(commercial music for washing machine soap advertising)
Choisis la vie !
Choisis la vie !
Choisis la vie avec Jesus Christ !
...
Allanon...are you a commercial ? We don't choose a path based on such considerations...you are well placed to know it !!!
And can you explain when you say that "Jesus exist", "good and evil exist " ? I could say "Mohammed exists"...
AArgh, will you understand what we DON'T WANT to buy your washing mach...oups, your belief...that's incredible that you still didn't understood ! Let us root in hell, at last we respect your belief, so please respect ours, because Jesus did respected even those who crucified him...
Choisis la vie !
Choisis la vie !
Choisis la vie avec Jesus Christ !
...
Allanon...are you a commercial ? We don't choose a path based on such considerations...you are well placed to know it !!!
And can you explain when you say that "Jesus exist", "good and evil exist " ? I could say "Mohammed exists"...
AArgh, will you understand what we DON'T WANT to buy your washing mach...oups, your belief...that's incredible that you still didn't understood ! Let us root in hell, at last we respect your belief, so please respect ours, because Jesus did respected even those who crucified him...
Title: Disadvantages of Christ Allegiance
Post by: Soulfire on September 10, 2003, 09:45:34
Post by: Soulfire on September 10, 2003, 09:45:34
Hi,
My story is very similar to James'. I did not like the person I was turning into following the Christian path. I found it easier to judge people than to love them. I spent more time experiencing feelings of low level unease and fear than joy or love.
It's not so much that I disagree with the teachings of Christ, although I do believe certain things attributed to Jesus in the Bible are either inaccurate or just misinterpreted.
Take the phrase which sais, "I am the way and the truth and the life, and nobody comes to the father except through me". Most Christians interpret that to mean you must accept the ritual sacrifice of Jesus to be saved, and you must worship Jesus as God. If you look closely though, you will see that he did not actually say that. Now take into account the difficulties of language translation, and the fact that no original records or first hand accounts of Jesus' life have been found (the earliest versions of the various Gospels that we know of were written long after Jesus died), and consider that the church deliberately altered parts of the Bible to suit the selfish purposes of church and state at the time. Maybe Jesus did not even really say anyting like that? Maybe he said something similar to that, but our records of it and/or interpretation of those records are flawed? Maybe he simply meant that the way to God is simply to express unconditional love as Jesus himself did?
All I know for SURE is that the generally accepted biblical interpretations did not work for ME. I was not becoming any better as a person and I was not becoming any happier by following them. I also perceive that 95% of the Christians I have seen are not the kinds of people that I would choose to become like myself.
--Soulfire
My story is very similar to James'. I did not like the person I was turning into following the Christian path. I found it easier to judge people than to love them. I spent more time experiencing feelings of low level unease and fear than joy or love.
It's not so much that I disagree with the teachings of Christ, although I do believe certain things attributed to Jesus in the Bible are either inaccurate or just misinterpreted.
Take the phrase which sais, "I am the way and the truth and the life, and nobody comes to the father except through me". Most Christians interpret that to mean you must accept the ritual sacrifice of Jesus to be saved, and you must worship Jesus as God. If you look closely though, you will see that he did not actually say that. Now take into account the difficulties of language translation, and the fact that no original records or first hand accounts of Jesus' life have been found (the earliest versions of the various Gospels that we know of were written long after Jesus died), and consider that the church deliberately altered parts of the Bible to suit the selfish purposes of church and state at the time. Maybe Jesus did not even really say anyting like that? Maybe he said something similar to that, but our records of it and/or interpretation of those records are flawed? Maybe he simply meant that the way to God is simply to express unconditional love as Jesus himself did?
All I know for SURE is that the generally accepted biblical interpretations did not work for ME. I was not becoming any better as a person and I was not becoming any happier by following them. I also perceive that 95% of the Christians I have seen are not the kinds of people that I would choose to become like myself.
--Soulfire
Title: Disadvantages of Christ Allegiance
Post by: beavis on September 10, 2003, 11:45:14
Post by: beavis on September 10, 2003, 11:45:14
Narrow Path "What is the disadvantage to following Christ and living by His standard?"
There are disadvantages to following anybody and living by standards. That is sheep behavior and I refuse to do it. Regardless of how much a person knows, I will never worship them. I might ask them questions and try to confirm their answers with experience. I try not to listen to anybody who says I HAVE TO do something, unless I agreed to obey them (government gets ticked about that). What is the advantage of being independent like this? If somebody lies to me (possibly jesus) or doesnt understand what they're saying, I can move past the bad information and consider things that they say are impossible.
edit: a single word can change the whole meaning
There are disadvantages to following anybody and living by standards. That is sheep behavior and I refuse to do it. Regardless of how much a person knows, I will never worship them. I might ask them questions and try to confirm their answers with experience. I try not to listen to anybody who says I HAVE TO do something, unless I agreed to obey them (government gets ticked about that). What is the advantage of being independent like this? If somebody lies to me (possibly jesus) or doesnt understand what they're saying, I can move past the bad information and consider things that they say are impossible.
edit: a single word can change the whole meaning
Title: Disadvantages of Christ Allegiance
Post by: Tab on September 10, 2003, 16:55:39
Post by: Tab on September 10, 2003, 16:55:39
This is a stupid question IMO. What if I consider Jesus a great spiritually powerful guy, then is that following him? Or do I have to worship him and submit to the services of the religion that claims to embody his teachings?
For all I know Jesus could have been a great initiate, so if I believe that, is it 'good enough'? Is shutting out our beliefs and prescribing to the Jesus path you're talking about any different than assimilating Jesus into our own path?
For all I know Jesus could have been a great initiate, so if I believe that, is it 'good enough'? Is shutting out our beliefs and prescribing to the Jesus path you're talking about any different than assimilating Jesus into our own path?
Title: Disadvantages of Christ Allegiance
Post by: LA FORET MAUVE on September 10, 2003, 23:08:59
Post by: LA FORET MAUVE on September 10, 2003, 23:08:59
i am agree with Beavis ! I like the sheep image, very relevant ! I remember that this symbol was even used in christianity (the pastor thing and all...).
Title: Disadvantages of Christ Allegiance
Post by: Mustardseed on September 11, 2003, 11:49:59
Post by: Mustardseed on September 11, 2003, 11:49:59
I still think that Ben (I dont know what to call you could you just stick with one name)has a very good point, so lets not get all agressive but lets reason together. I myself have chosen Christ and the belief in his sacrefice on the cross and am fully able to live a good life with this belief. I projected all my life with no effort of my own and consider it to be something God is doing in my life for a reason I do not know. Just for the record. Anyway I think you Ben,should just accept that not everyone is called as you consider yourself called. Even Nicodemous was according to the Bible only "close" as well as many others and still Jesus treated them gently and with respect and LOVE. I know he beat some people out of the temple with a wip but that should symbolise the Church, the fellowship of believers, so maybe you should stand up in your church against hypocracy when you find it, and not people who are basically minding their own buissness and never solicited your opinion. Who is and who is not saved as we call it is really none of our buisness. it is only between them and God. If they come asking you for your opinion that is different. I think Ben does has a question and maybe you should just answer it nicely without hostility seeing he is being quite polite about it. Furthermore I think that it is not Jesus that some of people have stopped following it is the church and the "people worship" found there. I also think that a certain amount of people Ben, are stumbeled by wrong and judgemental attitudes and thereby "led astray" from the right path, to believe that the teachings of Jesus is unfair or harsh , and then reject the whole caboodle. This should be a very sobering point for you to consider as you have been very vocal and I might add judgemental in your earlier posts.
Regards Mustardseed
Regards Mustardseed
Title: Disadvantages of Christ Allegiance
Post by: Hephaestus on September 11, 2003, 15:18:00
Post by: Hephaestus on September 11, 2003, 15:18:00
If God exists then God is a jealous God.
Title: Disadvantages of Christ Allegiance
Post by: Narrow Path on September 11, 2003, 22:59:46
Post by: Narrow Path on September 11, 2003, 22:59:46
quote:
I still think that Ben (I dont know what to call you could you just stick with one name)has a very good point, so lets not get all agressive but lets reason together. I myself have chosen Christ and the belief in his sacrefice on the cross and am fully able to live a good life with this belief. I projected all my life with no effort of my own and consider it to be something God is doing in my life for a reason I do not know. Just for the record. Anyway I think you Ben,should just accept that not everyone is called as you consider yourself called. Even Nicodemous was according to the Bible only "close" as well as many others and still Jesus treated them gently and with respect and LOVE. I know he beat some people out of the temple with a wip but that should symbolise the Church, the fellowship of believers, so maybe you should stand up in your church against hypocracy when you find it, and not people who are basically minding their own buissness and never solicited your opinion. Who is and who is not saved as we call it is really none of our buisness. it is only between them and God. If they come asking you for your opinion that is different. I think Ben does has a question and maybe you should just answer it nicely without hostility seeing he is being quite polite about it. Furthermore I think that it is not Jesus that some of people have stopped following it is the church and the "people worship" found there. I also think that a certain amount of people Ben, are stumbeled by wrong and judgemental attitudes and thereby "led astray" from the right path, to believe that the teachings of Jesus is unfair or harsh , and then reject the whole caboodle. This should be a very sobering point for you to consider as you have been very vocal and I might add judgemental in your earlier posts.
Regards Mustardseed
Nice Reply.[8D]
I have been a little "bold" in some of my posts here but sometimes the logs in the fire need to be kicked about in order to intesify the light.
But yes it is true that some people become turned off by the "Church" but that is the wrong approach to begin with. Your focus should be on the Word and on Christ's Will and not what other men tell you.
Find Christ for yourself and remember He is the only Way to find peace.
For those here that have claimed to not find peace in Christ.......
THAT IS BECAUSE YOU CANNOT BE DISOBEDIANT TO HIM AND EXPECT HIS PEACE TO SETTLE IN YOU.
Once you give up the only key you have, the key of the will to Christ, I guarantee you that you will find the peace you have been lacking.
You have to try to follow Him and not just expect magic to happen once you throw your vote His Way. There will be tough times for the believer but that is the result of sin not the Lord's love.
Remember the promise for those who truly Love Him......
Matthew 19
29And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother[1] or children or fields for my sake will receive a hundred times as much and will inherit eternal life.
Title: Disadvantages of Christ Allegiance
Post by: DjM on September 11, 2003, 23:32:31
Post by: DjM on September 11, 2003, 23:32:31
quote:
Originally posted by Narrow Path
Being that most here prescribed to the Universalist/Perrenial facade of many paths leading to God........
[/br]
Why shouldn't they? Perhaps, your understanding hasn't caught up, yet?
quote:
What is the disadvantage to following Christ and living by His standard? I mean it is not that you think that He is a bad guy right? In fact you yourselves have no real idea as to there even being One True Way to God.
[/br]
Jesus was an Essene and so were his parents- Joseph and Sophia. Can you list what the standards were for an Essene? I challenge you to tell us one thing about Jesus that is NOT a historical reference.
FYI: the good/bad guy approach is insulting to us and Jesus. You make the appearance as though you're selling used cars or something- very disrespectful!
quote:
Also most here are even under the notion that He exists and I have heard many say they saw Him in the Astral.
[/br]
Being that He's only coming to the PHYSICAL world once, this makes perfect sense. You're not seriously waiting on His coming on a PHYSICAL cloud, are you? If so, you might be left behind!
quote:
So far I have gathered from you guys that
[/br]
FYI: there are girls here, too. (Please be considerate- thank you.)
quote:
1. All paths lead to God
2. Christ exists
3. Good and evil exist
4. You try to be good and get better for yourself and fellow man
[/br]
...and who could blame us?
quote:
So why not try and follow Christ.
[/br]
C'mon, dummy up! We are following. You're the one who is stuck in the worship phase so boldly that you condemn the rest who aren't doing what you're doing the way you're doing it...shame and a sin.
quote:
His credentials as a "Master" are pretty good right.
[/br]
Actually, Jesus of Nazareth is considered to be the world's greatest initiate. YOU appear to be one of the few on this site who does not understand what that means.
FYI: to be so demonstrably underdeveloped yourself and point at Jesus as being "pretty good," is outright disrespectful.
One cannot help another who is stuck in the mud, if one is stuck in the mud, too.
Dude, take the advice of Jesus- seek wisdom!
quote:
I mean you even have a few claims that surpass any other religious founder....
1. Claimed to be God
2. Claimed to be the exclusive Way to God
3. Claimed to live a Perfect Life
4. Performed Miracles
5. Was in opposition to "evil"
6. Raised from the dead....just to name a few
[/br]
What is one who attempts to deceive others in the name of Christ? I can see right through you, pal. Stop it! If you do not possess the wisdom to speak to people righteously, then you should not speak.
quote:
So gathering this info what is some DISADVANTAGES of just having a little faith in Christ? Why not just keep on projecting but consider Him you "Spirit Guide" and try to get to know Him? I am sure that most here are not under the impression that He means you harm....
[/br]
At some point in one's development, FAITH is not enough. More precisely, we must grow beyond FAITH. Obviosuly, you're still working on this.
FYI: you might make a better point if you possessed understanding and accumulated a little wisdom. After all, didn't Jesus prescribe this? He did.
quote:
So....
What are the disadvantages here?
And what are the advantages?
Thank You
[/br]
It's difficult to take you seriously. You're a cheerleader for dogma; the Devil's helper. [}:)]
I appreciate your devotion, however, your sentiments are entirely off the wall! If you were as sincere as you profess, your understanding would be in line with the truth. However, it's obvious that you have not grown UP, yet. The fact that you represent the Word as you do is completely disrespectful to others and to the Word...shame and a sin. Interpreting a spiritual book materialisticaly will only lead one into error...
Title: Disadvantages of Christ Allegiance
Post by: Narrow Path on September 12, 2003, 19:37:12
Post by: Narrow Path on September 12, 2003, 19:37:12
(http://www.ebaumsworld.com/forumfun/newbie5.jpg)
DjM,
You have no understanding of what putting God first means. You are so blinded by your subjective version of the Truth that you do not see the beauty of God's plan.
It is simple.
Jesus is Lord. Lord over all your "Masters" and their pipe dreams. The real power of the ressurection lies only in Christ. Not your version of Him but the Word's version which is very easy to discern for those with pure motives and loss of ego.
Keep searching.
DjM,
You have no understanding of what putting God first means. You are so blinded by your subjective version of the Truth that you do not see the beauty of God's plan.
It is simple.
Jesus is Lord. Lord over all your "Masters" and their pipe dreams. The real power of the ressurection lies only in Christ. Not your version of Him but the Word's version which is very easy to discern for those with pure motives and loss of ego.
Keep searching.
Title: Disadvantages of Christ Allegiance
Post by: James S on September 12, 2003, 21:11:05
Post by: James S on September 12, 2003, 21:11:05
Hi Ben,
I thought you were becoming a little more flexible in your thinking when you started this topic, but you're just going back to your old ways again.
Do you want to discuss things with people and learn about what others think and feel? Or do you want to just make statements and belittle everyone elses opinions?
You're beliefs are based on absolutes. Have you not listened to enough people here, like myself, who have been where you are now in terms of your spiritual path?
There are no absolutes! only change. If you believe in the words of the bible then you will see that even God is capable of change.
Stop ramming absolutes down our throats!
Now, either lighten up a bit or sod off. Your tired old diatribe is getting exceedingly boring!
James.
I thought you were becoming a little more flexible in your thinking when you started this topic, but you're just going back to your old ways again.
Do you want to discuss things with people and learn about what others think and feel? Or do you want to just make statements and belittle everyone elses opinions?
You're beliefs are based on absolutes. Have you not listened to enough people here, like myself, who have been where you are now in terms of your spiritual path?
There are no absolutes! only change. If you believe in the words of the bible then you will see that even God is capable of change.
Stop ramming absolutes down our throats!
Now, either lighten up a bit or sod off. Your tired old diatribe is getting exceedingly boring!
James.
Title: Disadvantages of Christ Allegiance
Post by: Mustardseed on September 18, 2003, 15:33:07
Post by: Mustardseed on September 18, 2003, 15:33:07
Lets all be nice and patient now.
Dear Ben I have gotten the feeling you must be a young man. You are so sure of yourself and that you are "pleasing God" ,well we will know some day. You seem to have a hostile and somewhat agressive nature and I would say that your fruit is questionable!!!! How do you judge a prophet by his fruit. A good tree bears good fruit a bad tree bears bad fruit. You state the Word correctly so you probably have a good study help or computer referance but you lack sorely in compassion and a deeper understanding of the Love that Jesus showed us.This comes with age and realising that we of all people are "chief sinners" as Paul said. I find nowhere that he (Jesus)was as agressive and unkind in his words as I observe you are. I could qoute you a string of scriptures about that but instead use your study aid. Look up the nature of Christ. "He was brought as a sheep before the slaughter and yet did he not open his mouth"look it up. Even angels behave different "even the archangel did not bring forth a railing accusation but said the Lord rebuke thee". So you seem to be in a bit of a contradiction. If you would like to debate this in the light of the scriptures you qoute so much I would be fully prepared to do so. If all you can qoute to justify your agression is some cute little sound byte about kicking the logs , I would say you are having a more lenient standard for yourself than you have for others. In its nature this is hypocracy.
Regards Mustardseed
[/quote]
Dear Ben I have gotten the feeling you must be a young man. You are so sure of yourself and that you are "pleasing God" ,well we will know some day. You seem to have a hostile and somewhat agressive nature and I would say that your fruit is questionable!!!! How do you judge a prophet by his fruit. A good tree bears good fruit a bad tree bears bad fruit. You state the Word correctly so you probably have a good study help or computer referance but you lack sorely in compassion and a deeper understanding of the Love that Jesus showed us.This comes with age and realising that we of all people are "chief sinners" as Paul said. I find nowhere that he (Jesus)was as agressive and unkind in his words as I observe you are. I could qoute you a string of scriptures about that but instead use your study aid. Look up the nature of Christ. "He was brought as a sheep before the slaughter and yet did he not open his mouth"look it up. Even angels behave different "even the archangel did not bring forth a railing accusation but said the Lord rebuke thee". So you seem to be in a bit of a contradiction. If you would like to debate this in the light of the scriptures you qoute so much I would be fully prepared to do so. If all you can qoute to justify your agression is some cute little sound byte about kicking the logs , I would say you are having a more lenient standard for yourself than you have for others. In its nature this is hypocracy.
Regards Mustardseed
[/quote]
Title: Disadvantages of Christ Allegiance
Post by: Avalon on September 20, 2003, 09:02:03
Post by: Avalon on September 20, 2003, 09:02:03
The only disadvantage to believing in ANYTHING is when those beliefs hurt or destroy people with words or actions.
I've been searching for the truth for a good majority of my life. I would so much like to BELIEVE. I struggle with it.
And I've reached a crossroads in that I'm angry that the truth of Jesus may never be truly known. So much evidence in the bible points to the good man he was/is but I do not believe that the bible is the Truth. The truth of Jesus and his word has been lost forever to politians and greed seekers.
And yeah, I'm angry about it. I've followed my own path and read much about other beliefs and found that the story of Jesus who supposedly "died for our sins" and supposedly was the Son of God will never truly be known.
A
I've been searching for the truth for a good majority of my life. I would so much like to BELIEVE. I struggle with it.
And I've reached a crossroads in that I'm angry that the truth of Jesus may never be truly known. So much evidence in the bible points to the good man he was/is but I do not believe that the bible is the Truth. The truth of Jesus and his word has been lost forever to politians and greed seekers.
And yeah, I'm angry about it. I've followed my own path and read much about other beliefs and found that the story of Jesus who supposedly "died for our sins" and supposedly was the Son of God will never truly be known.
A
Title: Disadvantages of Christ Allegiance
Post by: Narrow Path on September 09, 2003, 23:08:10
Post by: Narrow Path on September 09, 2003, 23:08:10
Being that most here prescribed to the Universalist/Perrenial facade of many paths leading to God........
What is the disadvantage to following Christ and living by His standard? I mean it is not that you think that He is a bad guy right? In fact you yourselves have no real idea as to there even being One True Way to God.
Also most here are even under the notion that He exists and I have heard many say they saw Him in the Astral.
So far I have gathered from you guys that
1. All paths lead to God
2. Christ exists
3. Good and evil exist
4. You try to be good and get better for yourself and fellow man
So why not try and follow Christ. His credentials as a "Master" are pretty good right. I mean you even have a few claims that surpass any other religious founder....
1. Claimed to be God
2. Claimed to be the exclusive Way to God
3. Claimed to live a Perfect Life
4. Performed Miracles
5. Was in opposition to "evil"
6. Raised from the dead....just to name a few
So gathering this info what is some DISADVANTAGES of just having a little faith in Christ? Why not just keep on projecting but consider Him you "Spirit Guide" and try to get to know Him? I am sure that most here are not under the impression that He means you harm....
So....
What are the disadvantages here?
And what are the advantages?
Thank You
What is the disadvantage to following Christ and living by His standard? I mean it is not that you think that He is a bad guy right? In fact you yourselves have no real idea as to there even being One True Way to God.
Also most here are even under the notion that He exists and I have heard many say they saw Him in the Astral.
So far I have gathered from you guys that
1. All paths lead to God
2. Christ exists
3. Good and evil exist
4. You try to be good and get better for yourself and fellow man
So why not try and follow Christ. His credentials as a "Master" are pretty good right. I mean you even have a few claims that surpass any other religious founder....
1. Claimed to be God
2. Claimed to be the exclusive Way to God
3. Claimed to live a Perfect Life
4. Performed Miracles
5. Was in opposition to "evil"
6. Raised from the dead....just to name a few
So gathering this info what is some DISADVANTAGES of just having a little faith in Christ? Why not just keep on projecting but consider Him you "Spirit Guide" and try to get to know Him? I am sure that most here are not under the impression that He means you harm....
So....
What are the disadvantages here?
And what are the advantages?
Thank You