Ever notice that in the Old Testement, "The LORD" is totally unpredictable, vengeful and punishing? Ever wonder where the Hebrews came up with such a personality?
I intend to prove that YAHWEH "The LORD" was, in fact, a VOLCANO.
Check this out:
(I am going through the books in order.)
Exodus 19:
16 So it came about on the third day, when it was morning, that there were thunder and lightning flashes and a thick cloud upon the mountain and a very loud trumpet sound, so that all the people who were in the camp trembled.
17 And Moses brought the people out of the camp to meet God, and they stood at the foot of the mountain.
18 Now Mount Sinai was completely in smoke, because the Lord descended upon it in fire. Its smoke ascended like the smoke of a furnace, and the whole mountain quaked greatly.
Exodus 20:
18 And all the people saw the thunderings and the lightenings and the noise of the trumpet, and the mountain smoking, and when the people saw it they removed and stood afar off.
19 And they said unto Moses, speak thou with us and we will hear, but let not God speak with us, least we die.
Exodus 24:
15 And Moses went up into the mount, and a cloud covered the mount
16 And the glory of the LORD abode on mount Sinai and the cloud covered it six days, and the seventh day he called up to Moses out of the midst of the cloud.
17 And the sight of the glory of the LORD was like devouring fire on the top of the mount in the eyes of the children of Israel.
Numbers 11:
1 Now the people became like those who complain of adversity in the hearing of the LORD; and when the LORD heard it, His anger was kindled, and the fire of the LORD burned among them and consumed some of the outskirts of the camp.
2 And the people cried unto Moses; and when Moses prayed unto the LORD the fire was quenched.
3 And he called the name of the place Taberah; because the fire of the LORD had burnt among them.
Deuteronomy 4:
11 "You came near and stood at the foot of the mountain, and the mountain burned with fire to the very heart of the heavens: darkness, cloud and thick gloom.
12 "Then the LORD spoke to you from the midst of the fire; you heard the sound of words, but you saw no form--only a voice.
24 For the LORD our God is a consuming fire, a jealous God.
36 Out of heaven he made thee to hear his voice that he might instruct thee; and upon earth he shewed thee his great fire; and thou heardest his words out of the midst of the fire.
Deuteronomy 5:
22 These words the LORD spake unto all your assembly in the mount out of the midst of the fire of the cloud with a great voice, and he added no more. And he wrote them in two tables of stone and delivered them unto me
23 And it came to pass when he heard the voice out of the midst of darkness (for the mountain did burn with fire) that ye came near unto me even all the heads of your tribes and your elders
24 And ye said behold the LORD our God hath shewed us his glory and his greatness and we have heard his voice out of the midst of the fire, we have seen this day that God doth talk with man and he livith.
25 Now therefore why should we die? For this great fire will consume us; if we hear the voice of the LORD our God anymore, then we shall die.
2 Samuel 22:8
"Then the earth shook and quaked, The foundations of heaven were trembling And were shaken, because He was angry."
Psalms 18:
7 Then the earth shook and quaked; And the foundations of the mountains were trembling And were shaken, because He was angry.
8 Smoke went up out of His nostrils, And fire from His mouth devoured; Coals were kindled by it.
9 He bowed the heavens also, and came down With thick darkness under His feet.
10 He rode upon a cherub and flew; And He sped upon the wings of the wind.
11 He made darkness His hiding place, His canopy around Him, Darkness of waters, thick clouds of the skies.
12 From the brightness before Him passed His thick clouds, Hailstones and coals of fire.
13 The LORD also thundered in the heavens, And the Most High uttered His voice, Hailstones and coals of fire.
14 He sent out His arrows, and scattered them, And lightning flashes in abundance, and routed them.
15 Then the channels of water appeared, And the foundations of the world were laid bare At Your rebuke, O LORD, At the blast of the breath of Your nostrils.
Psalms 104:32
He looks at the earth, and it trembles; He touches the mountains, and they smoke.
Isaiah
24:1
Behold, the LORD lays the earth waste, devastates it, distorts its surface and scatters its inhabitants.
24:20
The earth reels to and fro like a drunkard And it totters like a shack, For its transgression is heavy upon it, And it will fall, never to rise again.
Isaiah 34:
8 For the LORD has a day of vengeance, A year of recompense for the cause of Zion.
9 Its streams will be turned into pitch, And its loose earth into brimstone, And its land will become burning pitch.
10 It will not be quenched night or day; Its smoke will go up forever.
Micah 1:4
The mountains will melt under Him And the valleys will be split, Like wax before the fire, Like water poured down a steep place.
Nahum 1:5
Mountains quake because of Him And the hills dissolve; Indeed the earth is upheaved by His presence, The world and all the inhabitants in it.
Hebrews 12:29
For our God is a consuming fire.
Interesting observation.
Alot of what is recorded in the Bible is actual history for example the many wars depicted in the old testament, however, the ancient people's recording of these events were twisted with their own religious beliefs. Example : "God told the general to cross the river, and there God commanded him to attack the Cannanites". Now Christians interpret this as God actually telling the general to do these things, when it was really the general's own mind and conscience telling him what to do. Very similar to Christians today who say they talk with God or God wants them to do something. Its just there own conscience telling them what to do, the same as what everyone's conscience does.
What many Christians don't realize is the Bible is full of metaphors and thats just the way the ancient people wrote.
So yes, yes I do believe God very well may have been a volcano. In fact it is likely by the sounds of some of those excerpts.
Hey Leyla,
This is an interesting conjecture and reminds me of something I read years ago in a book by Joseph Campbell. I forget which one, but it's probably either Myths to Live By or Occidental Mythology. He was discussing Sigmund Freud's conjecture that Yahweh was, in fact, the name of an ancient volcano god, that Moses was actually killed by the Jews as they wandered the desert, and that somehow was transmuted into the mythos that the Peoples of the Book rely on today.
Bear in mind, though, that while there are certainly fiery and wrathful images of God throughout the Bible, there are also benevolent and protective images - not sure that a lot of those would jive with a volcano basis. Also, if there was a volcano god named Yahweh, I'm not sure that's a slam dunk, as there is some question around what the holy name of God was thought to be by the ancient Jews. Jehovah is another possible pronunciation, based on the vowels that they would allow themselves to write.
Still, it's fun to think about.
Take care,
Shinobi
Funny thought, that they might have killed Moses. And who could blame them?
Jehovah is unlikely to be the name of the Hebrew god; considering there is no J in the Hebrew language. There wasn't even a J in the English language until over 1,500 years after the deah of the man now known as "Jesus." Most experts conclude that God's name was either "Yahweh" or "Yahuweh".
The behavior of the old testemant god is irrational, capricious, tempermental, and often vicious. I reject these descriptions on the basis that I must believe god is sane.
However, the same biblical descriptions would be exactly fitting for an unpredictable volcano, inspiring both fear and awe into the primitive desert tribe of hebrews.
Revelation 4:3 gives us a description of God Himself. And He who sat there was like a jasper and a sardius (carnelian) stone in appearance.What do these two stones have in common? They are both volcanic.
"At the beginning of the catastrophe at Sinai, according to Hebrew traditions, there was a long deathly silence in the desert which Moses interpreted to mean "I Am that I Am" (Exodus 3:14)"
DUM
I intend to show that YAHWAH translates as DUM (Continuous Silent Mantra of Creation). I intend show the fallen Israelites that I'm alive and kicking with the inherited Sapphire Rod of our Forefathers, along with Arc of the convent, and Tabernacle, manifested and passed down via inheritance for ascension, and the reminder of our Nations sins (Your Golden Calf)
"He selected three letters from among the simple ones and sealed them and formed
them into a Great Name, I H V, and with this He sealed the universe in six directions."
The Ten Ineffable Sephiroth (English without the 'E' realized last night)
5Above IHV
6Below IVH
7(East)Forward HIV
8(West)Backward HVI
9(South) Right VIH
10(North) Left VHI
!Abyss Sealed!
"He was discussing Sigmund Freud's conjecture that Yahweh was, in fact, the name of an ancient volcano god, that Moses was actually killed by the Jews as they wandered the desert, and that somehow was transmuted into the mythos that the Peoples of the Book rely on today."
"Funny thought, that they might have killed Moses. And who could blame them?"
"However, the same biblical descriptions would be exactly fitting for an unpredictable volcano, inspiring both fear and awe into the primitive desert tribe of hebrews."
"In Jewish ledged Satan the tester, with Jannes and Jambres. Two students of Balaam the magician, conjured up before an increasingly disturbed and doubting Israel the image of a dead Moses floating on a bier midway between heaven and Earth. This symbolism displays the scribe's knowledge of the worlds. The precise location and height of the bier defines, to those that know even a little of Kabbalistic theory, that Jannes and Jambres were working in the world of formation that lies between the worlds of Action and Creation. When the Israelites saw the mirage they fell down in despair: If there leader had gone what would become of them in the desert between Egypt and Canaan? Satan, taking full advantage of the situation, worked on the growing disorder among the tribes. Months of work where undermined in days and the half completed initiation of Mount Sinai was to become more then threatened. Seeing no sign of Moses or God, Satan openly tempted strained and now shocked the Israelites. In the individual such Satanic attacks comes when exhaustion weakens resolution and only a sharp but subtle push is needed to throw the aspirant off the Spiritual path. The Magicians represent the inner tricksters of mischief and fantasy that plague all spiritual exercises. It was at this point that the mixed multitude, exerting there influence as the only cohesive group begun to pressure Aaron and the Elders. The two Sorcerers, who considered Moses only a rival magician, utilized this force to direct the people's attention to worshiping the God of the world of Formation"
Exodus 20:
18 And all the people saw the thunderings and the lightenings and the noise of the trumpet, and the mountain smoking, and when the people saw it they removed and stood afar off.
Moses communed with the Divine and his unconscious, he experienced the other 'I' A lot of what is said here is metaphorical as to what happens when the Divine presence draws closer to man, myth, fact and reality fused together as one; it allows freewill and maintains the element of mystery. The Israelites where supposed to Stay still, silent and remain DUM beneath Sinai as they where commanded. They scattered, they as a people where Dormant undisciplined Volcano's.
"19 And they said unto Moses, speak thou with us and we will hear, but let not God speak with us, least we die."
Moses read there thoughts. You see the Israelites where very stupid, they upset the Divine (who had foreseen there actions) which in any case is not good for Moses, having the Divines wrath fall upon ones back (real or false), for the sake of the DUM people (who never have a clue what's happening) is a very, very stressful experience for anyone to go through.
This is shown immediately afterward, the previous statement. After offending the Divine (Not trusting the Divine would protect them, which is 'Scattering for cover under the mountains') Many Israelites where swallowed by the earth and perished in there own thoughts immediately.
"You are a stubborn people and I may destroy you at any moment if I am with you"
YAHVEH
YAHVEH
GOD
MERCIFAL AND GRACIOUS
LONG SUFFERING
GREAT IN KINDNESS
And TRUTH
KEEPING KINDNESS FOR THOUSANDS
FORGIVING INIQUITY and TRANSGRESSION
And SIN
BUT WHO WILL BY NO MEANS CLEAR THE GUILT, VISITING THE INIQUITY OF
THE FARTHER UPON THE CHILDREN
UNTO THE THIRD AND FOURTH
Thats nice. But it still dosen't change the fact that Christianity is total and utter bovine excrement.
[/i]"and God said to Homo Erectus, let there be Homo Sapien, and he saw that IT was good"
I think it was some kind of parody. But of what I'm not sure. :think:
Apparently there must have been a lengthy post somewhere I missed about the mantra "OHM" being the same as "IAM," which he thinks is really "DUM."
Anyway, I was laughing my butt off at parts of it. Especially the part about the people scattering for cover under dormant undisciplined Volcano's. Thanx Jabyss.
Signed,
Jleyla.
When I went to college (many eons ago) we studied some prehistoric tablets (carved) which showed the fertility god YHWH, and he was depicted as the torso of a man and its legs were snakes. This was in the middle east (I wish I could remember the exact place). The fascinating thing is that this represented a fertility god who probably turned into the god of the bible, at some point losing the snake parts (garden of eden,anyone?) and acquiring a more fiery disposition. So a volcano is not out of the question. Are there any dormant ones in the middle east?
Interesting :grin:
Jews, Christians and Islamits are worshiping a volcano.
Well, but not so strange, since Christianity and Islam were mostly spread by the FIRE and by the sword :wink:
I don't know, IHVH as a volcano... I think Pele is more romantic as a volcano god(dess)...
:wink:
Abyss_
You are one whacked-out individual!
Doug
I agree Gandalf. I don't really even know or understand what his last post was about or what the point of it was. I guess it's just his way of ignoring truth, logic and facts.
I think Abyss's post is a sarcastic parody. It seems Pro-Bible, until you actually read what it says:
QuoteGod, merciful and gracious long suffering great in kindness and truth keeping kindness for thousands forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin.....but who will by no means clear the guilt, visiting the iniquity of the father upon the children until the third and forth generation.
He is pointing out this is supposedly a kind forgiving god, but in the Bible he punishes innocent children for the sins of their fathers up until the third and fourth generations. (Exodus 34:7 Numbers 14:18)
And you can't miss his constant referances to the Israelites being
DUM.
Hi Leyla,
I know this is just a bit of a side issue, and not really what the topic is about but I thought you might find the following interesting anyway.
QuoteHe is pointing out this is supposedly a kind forgiving god, but in the Bible he punishes innocent children for the sins of their fathers up until the third and fourth generations. (Exodus 34:7 Numbers 14:18)
There's something about that verse that makes an awful lot more sense when you take it out of literal terms and put it into terms of cause and effect.
In Numerology there is a number that represents a person's first challenge in life. As an example, my first challenge is a 1, which is a challenge of experiencing difficulties with domination, control or strict authority, which can bring about low self worth or dependency. I was raised by very dominating "control freak" parents, not really allowed to express my identity as a child, and so grew up with a low self esteem "control freak" nature myself, which I then re-enacted upon my own children.
That is until I became more aware of myself and my challenges.
So the bible does speak accurately of the situation where the "sins" of the parent - that is, their emotional and behavioral issues, are passed on to their children, who learn the negative behaviour traits and so pass it on to their children.
Once again if you look at the bible literally it makes no where near as much sense.
:smile:
James.
James- Yes, many preacers today explain that verse in exacly such a manner. Usually they say it means alcoholism, drug addiction, or incest. I doubt it's what the writer intended, but it is the accepted modern meaning.
I found a few more physical descriptions of God.
Ezekiel 1:26-28, "Above the expanse over their heads was what looked like a throne of sapphire, and high above on the throne was a figure like that of a man. I saw that from what appeared to be his waist up he looked like glowing metal, as if full of fire, and that from there down he looked like fire; and brilliant light surrounded him. Like the appearance of a rainbow in the clouds on a rainy day, so was the radiance around him."
Revelation 1:14-16, "His head and hair were white like wool, as white as snow, [volcanic ash?] and his eyes were like blazing fire. His feet were like bronze glowing in a furnace, and his voice was like the sound of rushing waters. In his right hand he held seven stars, and out of his mouth came a sharp double-edged sword. His face was like the sun shining in all its brilliance."
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v394/LeylaLeFay/Yahweh.jpg)
So... God looks like glowing melted metal. Lava, anyone?
And what is this bit I always hear about God throwing you into a "Lake of Fire?"
There are at least 2 things to consider. Ancient cultures are limited to the languages and the common experiences that those represent, and hindsight.
Ancient writings are TRIBAL in nature and can reflect the mindset of those that came before us.
Anyone reading ancient texts has the advantage of 20/20 hindsight.
No. YHVH was not a volcano. LOL.
Gdo
It's clear from the text that this is a real life physical mountain they are talking about. Not a symbolic or figurative one. Bible scholars have postulated for years the location of this original "mount of god;"so we know it is not a mystical metaphor.
It never ceases to amaze me how folks will willfully poke fun and ridicule things they do not understand............it seems that the most convenient way of dealing with issues that one does not understand or agree with is through ridicule or poking fun.............. Some on this board are EXPERTS and have elevated it to an art........come on guys you know who you are........my question is however, does it help any. Does it make you feel better about yourself when you barrage someone with logical reasons or the like instead of approaching them in respect and interest
Mustardseed-
Just because the hebrews worshiped a volcano doesn't mean there isn't a god.
Always Missquoted, Where does it say Until?
Ps- Silence is Golden, and this is a most wonderful jorney
If Christians aren't going to be accepting of our practices, then we might as well debunk their religion. Sorry Mustardseed, but Christianity is too damn arragant to be left alone.
Mustardseed, do you have something against logical thinking and reasoning?
Socratic Method
Jabyss,
My KJV says "unto" but I believe some of the more modern bibles say "until."
Also, am beginning to suspect gdo thinks he's god. It's an anagram.
Quote from: NickJWIf Christians aren't going to be accepting of our practices, then we might as well debunk their religion. Sorry Mustardseed, but Christianity is too damn arragant to be left alone.
Mustardseed, do you have something against logical thinking and reasoning?
Socratic Method
Hi Nick I have nothing against logical thinking and reasoning.....nothing whatsoever. I do However have something against slurs, name calling and bigotry. You stated in an earlier post:
"it still doesn't change the fact that Christianity is total and utter bovine excrement"This is in my opinion rude and against AP board net etiquette, it is not being moderated and I honestly wonder why. It is not logical nor using reasoning. It is simple abuse aggression and in my opinion in every way ineffective. If you hope to "expose" Christianity, or "debunking" the religion I find it illogical to believe that the above statement has any such effect. If you are trying to portray or explain your own sentiments and Antichrist beliefs, it works very well.
In my opinion you are out of line. I realize that you probably care very little and as a reply will possibly even step up your aggression, this will only add negativity to your life and is your prerogative.
Regards Mustardseed
Quote from: NickJWIf Christians aren't going to be accepting of our practices, then we might as well debunk their religion. Sorry Mustardseed, but Christianity is too damn arrogant to be left alone.
People are arrogant...not the religion or practice they follow.
It is people, humans, and the flesh which is arrogant.
One should be aware as to never confuse the fallibility of humans with the infallible of the spiritual. For example, not every Muslim is a terrorist.
If we bash a belief system for the failings of the humans who make up the system, then we are
all damned.
There is no need for you to be judgemental either Mustardseed. You assume my life is negative, I'm an antichrist worshiper, and that I'm out of line. I also think it is against AP etiquette to lie about channeling God. I would also care about your post if it actually came from an admin.
You obviously have a biased opinion as well, for if you look back on Abyss's (Debunker's) posts, you will see that the comments he makes are much more out of line.
And I'm not insulting christianity by saying its bovine excrement, merely stating a fact. Just like your channeling is bovine excrement. :shock:
I think a religion can be arrogant if it claims to be the "one true faith" and that everyone who doesn't follow it will go directly to hell. Especially if it sets out to brainwash the world into believing it at the point of a sword, or under pain of of buring at the stake.
I swear Abyss is not Debunker, his posts are sarcastic parody of Chrisitanity.
Also- Gdo, come out with it- do you believe you're god?
Mustardseed is just feeling wounded, handle him gently, he's not a bad person. Remember any one of us could be accused of having a case of "the crazies" just for experiencing OBE's.
Quote from: NickJWThere is no need for you to be judgemental either Mustardseed. You assume my life is negative, I'm an antichrist worshiper, and that I'm out of line. I also think it is against AP etiquette to lie about channeling God. I would also care about your post if it actually came from an admin.
You obviously have a biased opinion as well, for if you look back on Abyss's (Debunker's) posts, you will see that the comments he makes are much more out of line.
And I'm not insulting Christianity by saying its bovine excrement, merely stating a fact. Just like your channeling is bovine excrement. :shock:
Dear Nick
Your arguments are not very clear. I assume you are Antichrist because you appear to be against Christians anti=against . About your life being negative that is not what I said . I merely stated that harboring and pouring out negativity
will add negativity to your life.
Your post is very funny to me you sound like my kids so I expect you are quite young,
Jonny stop that
you stop it yourself
Jonny you are going to hurt yourself
well what about Bob you never tell him off
Jonny just watch out
nah nah nah nah na I do what I want you have no authority over me anymore I am adult and will be 17 soon
Come on Jonny I just want to help you
'
Excrement excrement excrement
Now to me that is funny
Grgards Mustardseed
Quote from: LeylaI think a religion can be arrogant if it claims to be the "one true faith" and that everyone who doesn't follow it will go directly to hell. Especially if it sets out to brainwash the world into believing it at the point of a sword, or under pain of of buring at the stake.
I swear Abyss is not Debunker, his posts are sarcastic parody of Chrisitanity.
Also- Gdo, come out with it- do you believe you're god?
Mustardseed is just feeling wounded, handle him gently, he's not a bad person. Remember any one of us could be accused of having a case of "the crazies" just for experiencing OBE's.
I couldn't agree with you more. However it is a circular argument. In order to determine what a religion teaches you would have to include everyone. It would be the same as saying all men are chauvinist, all Americans are fat or Muslims are terrorists.........some men are some Americans and some Muslims are as well.
That was my point
Regards Mustardseed
interesting until the flame wars started :/
anyways last time i checked MustardS was doing some channeling and not your average judge dred.
if a certain 'religion' was arrogant towards you, then its good to show them that you have grown past that arrogance and can except them even if they don't except you and not be nasty towards them.
remember that we all was there at some point or in some way. heck even i was uber doom priest of a certain religion judging and brimstone + fire ppl if they dared to be different, but now i have come to be more open minded and are thankful for those who have bared my ignorance and was patience with me.
i had to learn the hard way. i can now never say i am sorry to my friend who i rebuked and have died in accident, but i take it that she now knows that i know that what i have said to her i was wrong then and are sorry now for it.
i also experience those anti-open-free-minded against my beliefs and try to be nice to them which is better than having same judgmental actions.
anyways back to topic...
any read up on those volcano conclusions you have Leyla ? :)
[except the bible verses]
thank god we all different would been VERY boring otherwise
blessings
Ryu
I'm the childish one, yet you spent almost your whole post on trying to say I'm childish? Tells me something about Mustardseed...
This thread is absolutely classic... :smile: lol
Ha yes it is very funny indeed...........I don't know what it is about me, probably something I have to work at once in a while (my wife always says I am childish and immature, but she likes that ha), it is true though and once in a while I do take up these "challenges" in spite of knowing for a fact that I cannot "win" such an argument. I have raised 8 kids through teen years yet I don't seem to learn.....silly me.
Someone told a story once that I remember so clearly, and related it to having a discussion with his teenage son.
Here goes........
A new intern student joined the staff at a insane asylum and was shown around by the resident doctor. He was introduced to Mr. Smith and the doctor explained that Mr. Smith was a schizophrenic who believed he was dead. Because of his mental illness Mr Smith was not able to reason like someone without the said malady.
The new intern spent a few days at the facility but he was fascinated by what he had been told and because he was new inexperienced in the area of mental illnesses, yet very curious, he just had to talk to Mr. Smith and got a idea.
He approached him one morning.......
"Good morning Mr Smith, I have been told that you are dead..is that true"
"Yes sir I sure am, dead as a doornail"
"Very interesting Mr Smith, I have a suggestion for you, I would like to use this small needle and puncture your thumb for a blood sample .....would that work?"
"No sir it would not, cause dead people don't bleed...the heart don't beat so..... we don't bleed........ that would be impossible"
"Oh I see" the intern said "dead people don't bleed lets check this out now". He quickly took Mr Smiths hand and nimbly punctured his thumb and a red dot started to form as he started bleeding, "and what do you say now Mr Smith he said with a triumphant smile....?
My Smith lifted his thumb looked closely at it and said, "well I'll be darned Dead people DO bleed then".
Some arguments just cannot be "won".
Disclaimer: The author of this post does not think that anyone in particular on the AP is afflicted with schizophrenia. Any likeness with any posters, or any similarities are purely coincidental. (Besides please don't sue, gotta put my kids through college) :roll: .
Regards Mustardseed
Ryuji- Sorry, don't know of any read ups as it was my own research. But I have heard there is a paragraph or two about Yahweh being a volcano in some other books.
MS- In order to determine what a religion teaches you look at their book. The bible is almost entirely violent. I have found the christians who are not arrogant and condemning are being nice despite what their religion teaches, not because of it.
Dear Leyla
I would beg to differ. In the old testament you are not reading about Christians, you are reading about Jews, or Hebrews and Arabs, Canaanites etc. It is not a Christian book per se but a history account of things that happened before the Christian era. It is not followed by Christians nor adhered to as laws to be kept. The New testament is the part where Jesus changes things. He said that "you have heard an eye for an eye but I say to you if one smites you on the right cheek turn the left also" , he also said "do good to those who persecute you and pray for those who abuse you".
The non violent and pacifistic nature of Jesus and the commandment he clearly gave his followers is evident. You however are looking at history, the inquisition and Bush and so forth, those who claim to be Christians. His nature was that of a "sheep who was led to a slaughter and who never even opened his mouth to defend himself". Not a retaliating vicious master who ridiculed and oppressed his opponents.
I do not claim that atrocities have not been committed in the name of Christ, but I claim that there is no commandment to commit such things in his Words, but on the contrary Christians are urged to humble themselves even to death to be a sample of His love. We as Christians often fail at this, if we do it is our fault not His.
In the light of this how does Islam rate and Mohamed. Peace full warlike humble proud what do you think, I assume you are Muslim living in BD or at least know the religion well.
Regards Mustardseed
thanks Leyla,
to be short another interesting note
if you compare the deity from the old testament and the new testament
and what they are doing and saying it would also seem that its 2 different
deities.
for example:
old - very violent and jealous (only worship me or die)
Exodus 20: 1-17 (for I the Lord your God am a jealous God)
new - loving, compassionate and forgiving
the one in new one clearly states the he is love and what love is as described in 1 Corinthians 13:1-7 (...and is not jealous)
--> Malachi 3:6 I the LORD do not change.
also there are some sources as the Jesus Mysteries that points the the old testament to be history of Jews and the new testament was started by the gnosis the teach the Jews about the whole god's son 'Dionysius dying resurrecting' teaching - theres a bunch of god's and goddess's sons that was send, died and resurrected bit wee long list of those.
religion for me is interesting subject to study. the whole lot of them. in the end it seems that the core teaching, all though different wording teaches more or less the same thing.
best thing would be to except other ones believes and enjoy the differences rather than killing a fellow person just because he/she don't share your believes.
its good to ponder about things and what is out there rather than just using the religions book as a sole guide to life. I'm quite sure that god didnt intend us to use our interpretations (or religions) as a how-to, FaQ or rulebook to be followed blindly while living.
Blessings,
Ryu
The only limit in life is yourself! Explore all. try everything as long as you don't harm anyone - that includes you too[/color] :P
[/b]
TUPAC – Ghetto Gospel ft Elton John
I'm DUM struck, finally...
*Decodes the whole environment, sows every incidence*
Hear this; Seeds are Dum, it isn't until they absorb there substance, that they grow, unto the Birds sing.
"Every Mustard Seed, Is a Beautiful kingdom"
DUM, I REMEMBER MY SUBSTANCE!
WATCH PEACE RADIATE
(I know it's extremely difficult)
God cares immensely for every single mustard seed there is, and so do I, sorry to offend anyone, I think there's alot of misunderstanding going on, partly my fault, i'm just trying to live over here!
Mustardseed - I would just like to sidle into the conversation and say that I loved the Mr Smith story, thanks for sharing that - sidling out again...
Sarah
I think Abyss is Debunker, although his personality has deffinitly changed.
Abys :roll:
the DUM not too bad, made me have a good smirk hehe
dead dude story. enjoyable
blessings,
Ryu
Of course its I=MC2!
I'd recognize him anywhere. Even under a veil.
http://www.biblicalheritage.org/Archaeology/eden.htm
"The Biblical word gan (as in Gan Eden) means `walled garden,' " Rohl continues, "and the valley is indeed walled in by towering mountains." The highest of these is Mt. Sahand, a snow-capped extinct volcano that Rohl identifies as the Prophet Ezekiel's Mountain of God, where the Lord resides among `red-hot coals' (Ezekiel 28:11-19). Cascading down the once-fiery mountain, precisely echoing Ezekiel, is a small river, the Adji Chay (the name of which also translates in local dialect as 'walled garden'). The locals still hold the mountain sacred, Rohl says, and attribute magical powers to the river's water.
Quote from: MustardseedDear Leyla
I would beg to differ. In the old testament you are not reading about Christians, you are reading about Jews, or Hebrews and Arabs, Canaanites etc. It is not a Christian book per se but a history account of things that happened before the Christian era. It is not followed by Christians nor adhered to as laws to be kept.
Oh really ? What about the Ten Commandments (Exodus 20:2-17 (http://www.mechon-mamre.org/p/pt/pt0220.htm)) ?
Very interesting Paker. Very interesting indeed.
MS- The last time I was in a christian church they were preaching from the old testament. A great deal of christian doctrine is based on it.
Dear Leyla
I am wondering if you are really interested, if you are I shall be glad to explain the issue but it is a quite involved issue and would require you to read some for yourself.The Bible is comprised of 2 books and in order to understand it in its entirety you would have to read what it says, any thing else would be hearsay.
I can assure you that the most raging religious controversy between Christians is exactly on this issue. Christians are not expected to keep the law laid out in the OT, but are expected instead to keep Gods law as described in the NT, which in essence is to love.
This is a problem for many Churches who feel their power over people would smolder , and so they ignore this and stay with old making their Church a mish mash of various OT and NT doctrines.
Explaining this from the NT is not complicated but I do not feel comfortable about doing it in this forum. I hope you understand.
If you are very keen just approach any Christian board and ask <"do I have to keep the 10 commandments to be pleasing God" the debate that unfolds will hold every doctrine for and against. :razz:
Regards Mustardseed
um :roll:
there seems to be different versions of the bible (this now being the canon of books) which one is the correct one to read and not 'hearsay' as you put it ?
as what I've read so far the Catholics decided some way back what not and whats to be included in the total bible...
also thing that i have been wondering about is why are all the main figures in most religions male. the main god(s), angels, sons that was sent and humans of note ? it would seem that those religions was written from a male perspective excluding the woman and in some cases make them the bringers of sin/evil moreover a definite relation towards a certain race aswell.
Christianity - why is the streets of heaven depicted as gold. it sounds like a casino or some dream of umber wealth.
other religions haven't read on how they depict heaven to be :shock:
i have a curious mind and it will be curious at all times :wink:
Peace and love,
Ryu
Mustardseed-
This is exactly the kind of christian arrogance that offends me. You really think you have something about the bible to "explain" to me?
Well you don't.
I went to Baptist Bible school for elementary, Catholic school for junior high, and spent two years of high school with orthadox Jews. On top of this I had a Moslem stepfather.
I know it from every possible angle. I have quite a reputation. Christian pastors call me, when they have a question about the Bible.
You just can't wrap your mind around the concept. In your mind, if someone isn't a christian, it must mean they don't "understand."
The fact is, I know it and that is why I rejected it.
You're not the first, so let me inform you of the thin ice you're now treading. I had another just like you, a Christian Missionary, and graduate of Grand Rapids Bible University. He too felt he needed to "set me straight."
Night after night we sat with the KJV, a concordance, and Strongs bible dictionary.
I cracked him in three days. He is now a pagan.
I'm gonna chime in for a sec. Not siding with anyone.
I grew up in a Lutheran church and school. We were taught that the Old Testament were the old ways. There were rules such as the Ten Commandments and other wacky things that were hard to live by, and we were judged accordingly by these deeds. And that's a reason why Christ came to earth. So even if we don't live accordingly, we can repent and have a clean slate. That's what the New Testament preaches. The only way to God is through redemption in Christ. The Old Testament rules no longer apply, however they are still important in the history of Christianity leading up to Jesus and why he came. The New Testament wouldn't make any sense without the Old.
(It's not necessarily what I believe, just what I learned growing up.)
Lol thats pretty lucky turning a Christian into a Pagan. Most Christians have the logic centers in their brains slightly out of whack and are living in a dream world; they are slightly disconnected from reality. Most of the time no matter how much you disprove their religion, they still won't buy it, so I congradulate you on actually turning a Christian away from his religion. You must really know alot about the bible to do that. :grin:
Dear Leyla
Thanks for the reply. I realize that you are probably pretty ticked off and-........ well in your own way maybe a bit hurt at Gods seeming absence in your life.........always pretty irritating when he leaves you to make up your own mind.
I can't give you a lot, I honestly thought that you did not understand this issue and the controversy surrounding the old and new testament and it seems I was wrong. You however are also wrong if you assume it was arrogance that prompted me to answer you as I did.
The issue to me is not whether you can "crack" me or not...........much to your disappointment I was cracked a long time ago by people and loving wisdom which spoke to me on its own...........lets just say God cracked me.
The truth of God (as I see it) is not to be found in the church....nor in its very narrow minded interpretation of the Bible..Crack crack The truth is much bigger than most Christians realize , so maybe we do not disagree that much.....
The Truth tells me Leyla that a word of love spoken with kindness and with respect can bring souls together-----------it tells me that words great and swelling spoken in anger does nothing but hurt people....in my opinion and only mine..God loves you as much as me and Osama Bin Laden as much ad George W Bush, he is not willing that any should suffer , for he is love true love and does not see right and wrong as we do.
Also anger and aggression are vain, they bring nothing good with them they are all together a waste of energy
Thanks for the instruction and setting me straight I wish you all the best
Regards Mustardseed
Mustardseed-
I am not a Christian, therefore, God must be absent in my life. :roll:
Nick-
This guy prided himself that Christianity was logical, and that he could sit down with me, using reason, and prove Christianity worked. I decided the best way to get this over quickly was to go for the jugular. No Risen Savior, no Christianity.
I knew full well most Christians will reject things like historical evidence saying haughily "If it's not in the Bible I don't believe it!" (The irony being they have no idea what's in their Bible.) So, I took him through the four gosples book by book, account by account. Proving they would not hold up as evidence in any court.
(Here is but a small sampler of what I showed him.)
WHO CARRIED THE CROSS?
-Mark 15:21 Simon of Cyrene. (Matt 27:32 and Luke 23:26 agree with Mark) Simon carried it, by himself.
-John 19:17 says "JESUS himself carried the cross."
(No where does it say the cross was carried by both men. According to the gospel, it is either one or the other.)
DID EITHER OF THE TWO THIEVES BELIEVE JESUS?
-Matt 27:44 says niether one believes
-Mark 15:32 niether one believes
-Luke 23:39-41 one does not, but one DOES
(only one gospel out of four has the famous conversion story)
HOW LONG WAS JESUS IN THE TOMB?
(remember jews count days from sundown to sundown)
-Matt 28:1 Three days and two nights
-Mark 16:2 Three days and two nights
-Luke 24:1 Three days and two nights
-John 20:1 Two days and two nights
*WHY IS HIS TIME IN THE TOMB SO IMPORTANT?*
Because it means he was not the true Messiah.
In Matt 12:38-40 he said he would remain in the tomb for THREE days and THREE nights, and that would be the sign he was the true messiah. Jesus did not fullfill his own prophecy.
IS MARY PERMITTED TO TOUCH JESUS AFTER THE RESURRECTION?
-Luke 24:39 Yes "Behold my hands and feet..handle me and see."
-John 20:17 No "Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my father."
WHO WAS AT THE TOMB, AND WHAT DID THEY SEE WHEN THEY GOT THERE?
-Matt 28 Mary Magdalene and the other Mary saw one angel.
-Mark 16 Mary Magdalene, Mary mother of James, and Salome saw a young man in white.
-Luke 24 Mary Magdalene, Joanna, Mary the mother of James, and the other women that were with them saw two men in shining garments
-John 20 Mary Magdalene saw two angels in white.
WHERE DID THE DISCIPLES MEET THE RESURRECTED JESUS
-Matt 28:6-7 "Galilee"
-Luke 2433-36 "Jerusalem"
(They are about seventy five miles apart)
HOW MANY DISCIPLES DID JESUS HAVE?
-MARK 3:16-19 THIRTEEN
(Simon/Peter, Andreas/Nester, Iakobos bar zebedaios, Ioannes bar zebedaios, phillippos, thomas, judas the iskariot, bar Tholomaios, maththaios, lewis bar halphaios, iakobos bar halphaios, thaddaios, Simon the Kananite zealot)
-MATTHEW 10:2-4 TWELVE
(Simon/Peter, Andreas/Nester, Iakobos bar zebedaios, Ioannes bar zebedaios, phillippos, thomas, judas the iskariot, bar Tholomaios, maththaios the tax collector, iakobos bar halphaios, lebbaios thaddaios, simon the Kananite zealot)
-LUKE 6:13-16 THIRTEEN
(Simon/Peter, Andreas/Nester, Iakobos bar zebedaios, Ioannes bar zebedaios, phillippos, thomas, judas the iskariot, bar Tholomaios, maththaios, lewis the tax collector, iakobos bar halphaios, judus bar Iakobos, simon the Kananite zealot)
-JOHN only mentions NINE
(Simon/Peter, Andreas/Nester, Iakobos bar zebedaios, Ioannes bar zebedaios, phillippos, thomas the twin, judas bar simon the iskariot,
Ioudas, Nathanael of Kana)
*Note: All together we have the names of FIFTEEN different men!
JESUS NEVER ASCENDED INTO HEAVEN
After that, I pointed out the so called "Assuption of Christ," rising into the clouds, is a footnote blocked off with a bracket, with a disclaimer at the bottom clearly stating the verse should not be there, but was added.
That's why the New American Standard, the New International Version, and the New Revised Standard Version never even mention the assumption of Christ, at all.
Seeing he had his faith based around a footnote, he crumbled.
My friend had read the Bible cover to cover, four times. He had been to Bible college. He thought he knew the book, and yet had never before noticed the contradictions. He had read it, but not with his eyes open.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dear Leyla
Sorry you feel that way...........this however is your conclusion alone, not mine and I do not think..........Gods. I have often seen you express feelings of love and concern for others and a lot of good humor as well. According to the God I believe in He is then not absent from you............but very present
1 John 4:8 - He that loves not knoweth not God; for God is love. (that would mean = he that loves knows god for God is love)
1 John 4:16 - And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwells in love dwells in God, and God in him.
I love you too
Regards Mustardseed
heavy reading for such awesome Monday morning, but interesting :)
Peace and love
Ryu
Quote from: LeylaMustardseed-
I am not a Christian, therefore, God must be absent in my life. :roll:
Nick-
This guy prided himself that Christianity was logical, and that he could sit down with me, using reason, and prove Christianity worked. I decided the best way to get this over quickly was to go for the jugular. No Risen Savior, no Christianity.
I knew full well most Christians will reject things like historical evidence saying haughily "If it's not in the Bible I don't believe it!" (The irony being they have no idea what's in their Bible.) So, I took him through the four gosples book by book, account by account. Proving they would not hold up as evidence in any court.
(Here is but a small sampler of what I showed him.)
WHO CARRIED THE CROSS?
-Mark 15:21 Simon of Cyrene. (Matt 27:32 and Luke 23:26 agree with Mark) Simon carried it, by himself.
-John 19:17 says "JESUS himself carried the cross."
(No where does it say the cross was carried by both men. According to the gospel, it is either one or the other.)
DID EITHER OF THE TWO THIEVES BELIEVE JESUS?
-Matt 27:44 says niether one believes
-Mark 15:32 niether one believes
-Luke 23:39-41 one does not, but one DOES
(only one gospel out of four has the famous conversion story)
HOW LONG WAS JESUS IN THE TOMB?
(remember jews count days from sundown to sundown)
-Matt 28:1 Three days and two nights
-Mark 16:2 Three days and two nights
-Luke 24:1 Three days and two nights
-John 20:1 Two days and two nights
*WHY IS HIS TIME IN THE TOMB SO IMPORTANT?*
Because it means he was not the true Messiah.
In Matt 12:38-40 he said he would remain in the tomb for THREE days and THREE nights, and that would be the sign he was the true messiah. Jesus did not fullfill his own prophecy.
IS MARY PERMITTED TO TOUCH JESUS AFTER THE RESURRECTION?
-Luke 24:39 Yes "Behold my hands and feet..handle me and see."
-John 20:17 No "Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my father."
WHO WAS AT THE TOMB, AND WHAT DID THEY SEE WHEN THEY GOT THERE?
-Matt 28 Mary Magdalene and the other Mary saw one angel.
-Mark 16 Mary Magdalene, Mary mother of James, and Salome saw a young man in white.
-Luke 24 Mary Magdalene, Joanna, Mary the mother of James, and the other women that were with them saw two men in shining garments
-John 20 Mary Magdalene saw two angels in white.
WHERE DID THE DISCIPLES MEET THE RESURRECTED JESUS
-Matt 28:6-7 "Galilee"
-Luke 2433-36 "Jerusalem"
(They are about seventy five miles apart)
HOW MANY DISCIPLES DID JESUS HAVE?
-MARK 3:16-19 THIRTEEN
(Simon/Peter, Andreas/Nester, Iakobos bar zebedaios, Ioannes bar zebedaios, phillippos, thomas, judas the iskariot, bar Tholomaios, maththaios, lewis bar halphaios, iakobos bar halphaios, thaddaios, Simon the Kananite zealot)
-MATTHEW 10:2-4 TWELVE
(Simon/Peter, Andreas/Nester, Iakobos bar zebedaios, Ioannes bar zebedaios, phillippos, thomas, judas the iskariot, bar Tholomaios, maththaios the tax collector, iakobos bar halphaios, lebbaios thaddaios, simon the Kananite zealot)
-LUKE 6:13-16 THIRTEEN
(Simon/Peter, Andreas/Nester, Iakobos bar zebedaios, Ioannes bar zebedaios, phillippos, thomas, judas the iskariot, bar Tholomaios, maththaios, lewis the tax collector, iakobos bar halphaios, judus bar Iakobos, simon the Kananite zealot)
-JOHN only mentions NINE
(Simon/Peter, Andreas/Nester, Iakobos bar zebedaios, Ioannes bar zebedaios, phillippos, thomas the twin, judas bar simon the iskariot,
Ioudas, Nathanael of Kana)
*Note: All together we have the names of FIFTEEN different men!
JESUS NEVER ASCENDED INTO HEAVEN
After that, I pointed out the so called "Assuption of Christ," rising into the clouds, is a footnote blocked off with a bracket, with a disclaimer at the bottom clearly stating the verse should not be there, but was added.
That's why the New American Standard, the New International Version, and the New Revised Standard Version never even mention the assumption of Christ, at all.
Seeing he had his faith based around a footnote, he crumbled.
My friend had read the Bible cover to cover, four times. He had been to Bible college. He thought he knew the book, and yet had never before noticed the contradictions. He had read it, but not with his eyes open.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm not a christian either (I follow no faith or religion), but i'd just like to say if some minor discrepancies such as these turned your friend from a devout christian to a pagan, he was either very fickle or was thinking of changing faith anyway surely?
I mean, anyone with even a rudimentary grasp of history can look back and
see how the Christian religion was changed and constructed, absorbing other festivals where needed to entice otherwise pagans into their fold.
I'd be interested if you could point to a singular religion/faith which hasn't absorbed belief or ideas from other or earlier practices.
Edit: I'd just like to add, scan these forums and any other forum based upon AP and just take note of the solid belief shown for spiritual ideas and structures surroundeing the astral - each of these have a huge amount less evidence form them than even Christianity - yet that belief is unwavering and if you try and question it you usually get shouted down.
I know this is deviating from the topic slightly, but in the end religious and spiritual belief is based on faith.
Many Christians find true inner strength from a higher source, whether it's Jesus or not. Maybe it's their higher-self or something represented as Jesus. Not everyone has the ability to see through the physical world, and those people need faith. No matter what the religion, it is faith in something that can't be seen. But it can still be experienced. It's the people living by the "rules" instead of listening to their heart that give Christianity and other organized religions a bad name.
I'm not trying to defend a particular faith, but defend people who experience something beyond themselves in the physical world. If a Christian can be turned into a Pagan through one conversation, he didn't have the inner experience a true Christian would. Just because it's not all correct, dosen't mean it's all crap.
Stookie QuoteNot everyone has the ability to see through the physical world, and those people need faith
i would venture and say that those are the 'young' souls, had an open mind then was schooled into mental imprisonment, not ready to 'see through' or has chosen for this life to be devoted to some religion.
true that all in bible inst crap - there is some good values one can take but not as lived as black and white.
MisterJingo :twisted: -> moving further away from topic hehe
QuoteI'm not a christian either (I follow no faith or religion), but I'd just like to say if some minor discrepancies such as these turned your friend from a devout christian to a pagan, he was either very fickle or was thinking of changing faith anyway surely?
i for one it was more than just the discrepancies. i was started to get a feeling that not all was as it seems and started to look at other religions and systems. iv'ed changed from my 'born into religion' to a free open minded spirit and enjoy life allot more than being ruled over by some book and priest
Strangely it was the research into other religions and systems that
made me more aware and understanding (wanting to learn more about) of God/Goddess, Angels, Guides, afterlife etc etc.
Mustardseed Quote1 John 4:8 - He that loves not knoweth not God; for God is love. (that would mean = he that loves knows god for God is love)
that's why i noted the differences between the OT and NT deities was bit strange for me that god can be jealous and not jealous at same time but unchanging.
NT
I Corinthians 13:4 - love is not jealous
OT
Exodus 20:5 for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God
Malachi 3:6 I the LORD do not change.
Leyla looks like volcano is out of the window for this topic :roll:
anyways it is something to think about - the booming voice, fire and mountain climbing...
Peace and love
Ryu
Quote from: Ryuji
i for one it was more than just the discrepancies. i was started to get a feeling that not all was as it seems and started to look at other religions and systems. iv'ed changed from my 'born into religion' to a free open minded spirit and enjoy life allot more than being ruled over by some book and priest
Strangely it was the research into other religions and systems that
made me more aware and understanding (wanting to learn more about) of God/Goddess, Angels, Guides, afterlife etc etc.
What I meant was that every religion can be either traced back to an earlier religion or series of religions/movements etc. The inconsistencies given above could simply be passed off as the failings of man, or mans memory, or even exaggeration of man. They don't on the whole tear down any religion, and if any religion is looked into deeply enough, such inconsistencies will occur (perhaps natural for any body of knowledge which has been translated and retranslated over thousands of years?)
I'm all for people looking into new areas and ideas, but I think we must keep in mind that believing in astral doctrines (7 planes, 7 bodies etc) and angels, Gods, Goddesses, reincarnation etc is that their basis are the same as that of the religion you moved from - the mouth of man.
Have a look through these forums and see the number of ideas and doctrines followed unwaveringly - how does that differ from a Christian (or person of another faith) following their beliefs unwaveringly? Some might say they are open to others views, but simply go to the psychic attack threads and see the attacks against anyone who dares mouth a word from the norm.
One might argue that we can experience the astral and find the truth of such ideas. But if one is clear enough of mind, they see that ideas shape the astral so we find what we expect. And if we expect arch angels and such deities we find them. If we expect aliens or Atlantians, we find them. This means that having any expectations of the astral will generally have those expectations met. This doesn't give truth to the beliefs which spawned them, just truth the fact the astral is malleable and we will find what we seek. A great way to see this in action is to look at the views and philosophies of all major AP Gurus and proponents. These people have dedicated lifetimes to studying the exact same locales, and yet their experiences are so radically different it's hard to find common ground between them. Well generally there is a common ground between most, which state the astral is deeply affected by belief and expectation.
To summarise: I just don't see the difference between following one faith or another (and the beliefs we attach to OBEs are pure faith too).
I agree that the volcano theory is an interesting possibility. But to judge the current state of a religion by 2000 year old ideas, or the views of a small minority in a certain locality is to be short-sighted. Religions evolve like anything else, and no doubt in the far future when some new religion is dominant, we shall find traces of Christianity or other major world religions at its heart.
Also, if we see that energy follows thought in the astral, the sheer number of believers in the current Christian faith would have moulded such a God somewhere in some astral locale surely?
Edit: I'd just like to add that I think every kind of questioning is important, including the questioning in this thread. I just butted my nose in because it seemed certain posters had a anti-christian agenda (more than a desire to explore this matter) and that would change any conclusions reached.
MS- it was you who said god was seemingly absent from my life and had left me. Hense the eye rolling.
Mr Jingo- Few minor discrepancies? One conversation? No, This took days. I showed him many discrepancies, more than the handfull I listed.
He was as serious hard core fundamentalist Christian as they come. Remember, he went to bible college. He was a missionary. He set out to convert me. This made him fair game.
These bombshells were hardly minor. The Tomb discrepancy alone is enough to prove Jesus was not the true messiah.
The burial story is itself a fraud. Roman writers got very little right. Such as, why a Jew, and a "holy man" at that, would be slathered in 100lbs. of creams and spices in the tomb, when Hebrew law this is forbidden.
I sat there and made him call a Jewish funeral home in the phone book and ask. After he read aloud the verse about Jesus being entombed "As is the custom of the Jews" the Rabbi replied "That is a lie! That is NOT our custom, and has NEVER been our custom!"
The Rabbi explained from the days of Moses, Jewish law commands that a man should be buried in the ground, in a plain box back to the earth. Ashes to ashes and dust to dust. You are not to perserve a body in any way. To put spice and oil and perfume on a corpse is considered blasphemous. Jesus's friends and family would have fought to the death to prevent it from being done. The writer of the fake burial story is ignorant of Jewish ways and is given away as being a Roman.
Also, with the Bible dictionary I as able to prove to him Jesus never said he was God.
"The MESSIAH" & CHRIST
Messiah from Hebrew Masiah & Aramaic Meshina, is literally expected king and deliverer of the Jews, not the son of Yahweh/God! Christ is from the Greek Christos. literally meaning, anointed. Every single Jewish king was a "Christ" it simply meant annointed. A new king was anointed with oil at his coronation.
It does not mean "son of God". The Messiah was NOT supposed to be God, only a really great hero-priest-King. They wanted a hero/rebel to lead the rebellion against Rome.(deleted from Bible by Roman writers, although traces remain) It should be noted that "THE Messiah" is different from "Messiah" which is the Hebrew word that we get the Greek "Christos" from. They mean the same thing. Yep, "David" was a messiah too.
JESUS WAS "VOTED" A GOD IN 325CE.
Like in most of Christianity; a bunch of old Roman politicians took votes to determine the course of the new religion. Yeshua was voted a God, rather than a prophet at the council of Nicea in 325C.E. he was de-deified and re-deified twice and was a god permanently in 380, this was about politics. Yeshua never thought he was God.
JESUS DENIES HE IS GOD
Apparently the council of Nicea missed this one. "Why callest thou me good? There is none good but one and that is God." And again, "Why callest thou me good? None is good, save one, and that is God." (Mark 10:18, Luke 18:19)
When questioned on this verse, one Christian actually told me: "Jesus Lied."
BUT JESUS TALKS ABOUT BEING GOD IN THE BIBLE!
Well lets take a look, shall we?
BAR-NASHA - Jesus called himself "bar nasha" "son of man" 28 times. It means in the three Semitic languages "a human being"
BAR-DALAHA - "Son of God" (oh, oh, they got us here huh? -nah) In the Aramaic-Semitic language "bar-dalaha", "God's son", "God's child" is used many ways and may refer to an orphan, peacemaker, etc. You see it must be understood that the term "bar" does not mean "son" in a literal way it refers to a likeness, and a special relationship. Never in Hebrew scripture or in the New Testament does it refer to a physical relationship. Easterners will use the term "son" as like saying "beloved" [the very idea of a actual sonship from God was seen as blasphemy to Jews, but not to Romans, hmmm]
EHEDAYA- "the only begotten son" (lest they throw this at ya, here it is) Jesus never claimed to be God's only son, that claim was made by others, and found only in the Gospel of John. John has it as a translation of the Greek "monogenes" which is two words, singular and kind, when put together mean "one of a kind" I don't want to get into the breaking down of the Greek, suffice to say, it is an improper translation. A better rendering would be "unique son". It does not even come close to meaning what Christians think it means.
Also, MrJingo, I don't believe in the Astral like a christian belives, due to "faith" I believe in it because I experience it for myself. Firsthand.
Leyla - seems u know lot bout jewish stuff hence your upbrining. what also suprised me when i was studying magick was the fact that the The Lesser Ritual of Banishment and the cabalistic cross was preformed by a jewish rabi.
strange then that in bible magick was forbidden...
Peace and love
Ryu
Jews don't believe in the existance of Hell or the Devil. But try telling that to a Christian.
My friend didn't believe it either, until I made him talk to the Rabbi, who backed up everything I had already told him.
Hi Leyla
Well ........ha how do I say it. I guess I have to be honest with you. In the course of our conversation I have not really felt we connected, not even on an reasonable level. Most of what I said has been twisted and it is becoming clearer to me that you are not actually interested in a respectfull debate but find debunking through slander and name calling a better way. So have it your way Leyla. To me my dear you are just proving my point, a man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still. You seem to adhere to Wicca and most likely very anti Christian in your approach to life. ( besides not being Bangladeshi) That is not a problem for me, but I personally do not share your opinion. Is that OK with you...........without abuse:-) you seem biased bitter and almost vengeful, but what do I know I am a Christian .....by definition, (your definition) I am a deluded and manipulating individual.
I wish you all the best in life, as much as you allow yourself to enjoy.
Regards Mustardseed
Mustardseed-
I thought it was against Christian prinicpals to lie. Yes, I am calling you out as a liar. I have not slandared or name-called you.
Your fight is not with me. You were taught certain Biblical misinterpritations. Take it up with your parents, or your pastor.
I am not to blame for the fact that Jesus never said he was God, or that Jews don't bury their dead in a tomb.
This is a classic case of "Killing the messenger."
Quote from: LeylaMustardseed-
I thought it was against Christian prinicpals to lie. Yes, I am calling you out as a liar. I have not slandared or name-called you.
Your fight is not with me. You were taught certain Biblical misinterpritations. Take it up with your parents, or your pastor.
I am not to blame for the fact that Jesus never said he was God, or that Jews don't bury their dead in a tomb.
This is a classic case of "Killing the messenger."
Come on Leyla In this conversation you are the aggressor. I don't want to fight you. I have no problem talking to you but for you to call me a liar is not fair, it is by definition slander. I may be misinformed but lying indicates one knows the truth and are omitting it, it is not just having an opinion that is not shared by others.
About what I have been taught you have absolutely no idea. You do not know me at all, but assume that I am the run off the mill Christian that you are used to encountering. Assumptions are not necessarily truths, at least not till they have been confirmed, and this one is wrong.
Actually you assume too much, I have no pastor and my parents......that was a good one. Ha.
It just blows my mind how good you are at this little game. You know just what buttons to push, just like my teenagers you have perfected the art of arguing, without learning anything, it appears that for you winning means a lot. Proving your opponent wrong and shooting his arguments full of holes gives satisfaction to your ego. It is my opinion that such a attitude on a long term is detrimental to a person, in other words it might come back and bite you in the butt. Just friendly advice.
Regards Mustardseed
PS It is a possibility that I would actually have something to add to your "knowledge bank" Leyla, facts maybe ideas or new understandings and viewpoints. Maybe to you it does not seem likely but still it is a possibility you cannot deny.........right.
That is .............Unless you have made up your mind that you know all there is to know, and that you have the full picture. This is what I find so interesting, you seem to be a very well read person and quite intelligent as well, why would you not want to learn more and explore other points of view........I can only assume that you think you know it all.
Mustardseed-
Nobody is forcing information on you. This post is not entitled "Mustardseed, please read." Yet, you keep clicking this topic and reading it of your own free will. Why you do it is beyond me. Nobody else here is upset by the information.
Secondly, you have invited me into a conversation. Repeatedly, you have insisted you want to have a discussion, telling me you had things to teach me, and so on. Nobody is stopping you, yet you haven't discussed one single thing, except how awful I am for posting my research.
Changed my mind
It dosen't matter if Leyla slanders you or is aggressive or whatever. She has DISPROVEN the NT, and the fact of the matter is that no matter what you believe, the New Testament is a forgery and that is truth.
But that's just it, I've barely spoken two sentences to Mustardseed directly. Neither being slanderous nor aggressive. All my posts have been directed to the group.
He just jumps in every now and then to shout that God has abandoned me and I am cursed to live a miserable life of suffering, or some such nonsense. :roll:
I have asked him to please share this information he claims to have, but he'd rather just vanish. I am left to assume he was bluffing all along.
so Leyla we going to have a nice e-book with the whole vulcano stuff in it and other research material... would be nice :razz:
Blessings,
Ryu
Once again, a contradiction by Mustardseed. He told Leyla to view it from another's point of view. Obviously judging from Leyla's past expereinces with Christianity, she has seen it from the other side and dosen't buy Christianity's garbage.
Ya'll stop acting like a pack of wild dogs attacking someone.
Thread locked.